This is more of a rant than anything else. It seems very difficult to find zoos worth talking to, and even more so actually talking. Even after wading through all the people who want a dog to fuck their girlfriend, most zoos in my experience aren't much better. The "loving" of animals is only a justification to have nonconsensual or abusive sex for many, or to make it okay to share abusive porn.
Even passed all of that, it seems that zoos aren't friendly, tolerant, or even nice individuals. For a while I thought I had odd experiences, but I am certain this is not the issue any longer. The large majority seem argumentative, misanthropic, close minded, sex obsessed, and I can't believe I'm using this word, but uncivilized.
I'm sorry for being harsh, but I feel lost. Aren't there nice people out there as well? If so, why do they seem to be so rare? Restore my faith in animal lovers?
You're right, and I believe a lot of the argumentative, misanthropic, close minded attitude is still coming from the stigmas attached to it. They might be a zoo, but they're "not like those other zoos. Ugh." They still feel the need to separate and distance themselves. It doesn't really matter if they're zoo or not. Any segment of people has close- and open-minded individuals. You have open-minded people, and you have zoos; the two don't necessarily intersect. Homosexuals, despite all the persecution and stigmatization they go through, can still be just as bigoted and close-minded as any heterosexual person; their sexual orientation has no bearing.
That being said, you still do have the nice, affable, open-minded people in any group. The friendly zoos are out there, you just have to wade through the same sea of assholes to find them.
Couldnt put it better myself
Thanks for replying. It seems that zoos are especially bad though, as I haven't been able to find any amicable, ethical, zoos. The problem seems to be that the more friendly 'zoos' are often unethical in their treatment of animals, and the ethical zoos are often abrasive and unfriendly.
I dunno. I've seem some borderline, pants-on-head retarded people on the community, and I've seen some of the abrasive ones too, but it has never struck me as being way out of wack with the rest of the population. The people on this sub all seem to be pretty decent.
Hello. I am /u/GM3d6 I'm not only an Ethical zoo but an activist in the community. I'm looking forward to going to the some of the rallys in germany and I spent most of my time on reddit talking to non-zoo and weathering the blows they have as I try to speak to them on who we are and how nonthreatening we are.
I'm open to talk to anyone, anytime on any subject. (Except String Theory because I'm dumb.)
I've seen some of your work, and I think you do a good job, just wanted to let you know.
If you're looking for someone who isn't a close-minded, misanthropic, or uncivilized zoo, I'm always willing to chat. I'm pretty argumentative, but that is simply because I like a good debate on certain subjects, but I think I'm a nice guy, and more than ethical with the treatment of my animals. But I'll let you be the judge.
We aren't all bad, just those that populate the community (and yes you're right, it is alot of them) and the few who are confrontational are as a previous reply said, still feeling the need to be defensive of everything they do in this community because it is still such a taboo subject.
I think the motivation determines the 'vector' of the approach. Some are vicarious exhibitors who see bestiality as an extension of humiliation for sexual gratification, the other extreme is those who are zoo exclusive and see publicity as a direct threat to their relationship with their partner... the risk of discovery and a seizure and possible destruction of their partner.
Some of the most zoo-exclusive are the least involved with the ""community"" for those reasons while others without partners can feel slightly more relaxed about their status because there's no seizure involved.
It's a complicated area, short story.
Thanks for the response.
But if you're a reasonable person you don't have much to risk by maintaining a smaller online profile. I think that the most "zoo exclusive" people tend to be the most misanthropic and antisocial, which would lead them to staying offline.
As for the more bestiality/fetish crowd, I wasn't thinking too much of them when I wrote this post. It seems to me that self proclaimed 'zoos' aren't much better in my experience.
It's disappointing that 'that' is your experience with Zoo's. I'v had just the opposite.. though I filter pretty hard... but then again anecdotes don't a trend make.
Well, you have been doing this longer than I have, I think. I could just be that.
I do filter pretty hard as well, although I think my filter has quite reasonable limits. How do you go about finding zoos?
Some of it is philosophical and life experience driven. Call it about intangibles, in anyone I look for judgement and self restraint. In turn, I'v experienced the gamut... I'v had some of the best heart to heart but also made love to incredible persons (dogs) whom were others partners. Maybe at the end it's just contextual and dynamic and it takes a self aware mind to make sense of it all.
Go to knotty.me, plenty of cool people there
I've tried, but I don't think I'm a good fit. It seems rather cliquey, too :/
Oh boy, it only gets worse from there buddy, there are no sites without cliques. And the worst sites are actually structured to outright promote cliques all the way up to the admins, in fact some sites have admin teams that exist to do barely anything at all other than be a clique.
You can post anon on 7chan but I bet OP hates 7chan. Even 7chan IRC is a circlejerk. There is no escaping the clique.
I think that it is simply self-selection bias. You don't meet nice people on the net who have anything to hide. The primary reason for zoos/besties to be on the net is porn.
Imagine, if you have a great life, why do you need to be here on the net? Taking risks that aren't necessary and that would potentially destroy your life? If you are looking for porno, your next sex fix, or a hump buddy, you'd be all over the internet.
I've met something like 100 zoos over the last 20 years and regularly visit some really good people. None of the ones I've liked have participated in the sharing of porno(outside of their teen years), have I suspected of using their animals in un-reciprocated ways, or have a large net presence.
Keep in mind what binds us together is simply sex. Those with the most sex addiction will be the ones that are the most popular or with the most presence. They will dominate the conversation and if you don't have what they want, or the ability to get what they want, you will be shoved aside. From a more personal perspective, a lot of outspoken zoos are politically to the right of the spectrum, which tends to make the conversations they have more about "what's in it for me".
Yep. I only want good people in my life, and some of the zoos I've met I've quickly put a lot of distance between us. People who think bathing, cleaning and such are optional, that whipping out a dick to stroke is a normal thing in mixed/new company.
The best people I've met, loving, kind, compassionate, supportive are also zoos. A wiccan priestess I knew once told me and a group of zoos who were celebrating the life of a fallen friend that we were "The most human people" she had met. Rather than getting drunk and talking about the game like the normals on the deck we had each chosen to wander to the front stoop and mourn the passing of our friend.
I wonder sometimes if we feel too much, us zoos. Those of us who cannot handle it turn it off and become sex obsessed users or kill themselves. Those of us who chose to handle the feelings sometimes try to isolate ourselves, make our own way. Some of us simply quietly support our friends while living life to the fullest.
My core belief is that we are just like any other human, with just as many trials and tribulations, if not more. We love and feel too well, and that is the heart of our troubles.
i somewhat disagree with your assessment that "the internet is for porn" (even though it is), simply because for me, the more people i meet, the more the internet is about connecting with those people than looking for (more) porn.
spot on for the rest of the post, though. i hope to find a day when i have enough in my life and around me physically (i.e. don't have to drive 3+ hours to see the closest of any of my zoo friends) that i can waste far less time on the net.
and .. "feel too much"? ugh .. yes. it's not easy sometimes, especially if you don't have an S.O.
sigh .. the ache.. >.<
I don't agree with that. I think that's rather insulting to zoophiles/bestialists, even if apparently true. Having a sexual attraction to animals is a perfectly reasonable thing to hide, or hide from. It's a sad group of people I'm part of since their whole online existence is to share porn which is usually abusive in nature, aside from the forum that appears here or there.
I don't think that's really a reasonable thing. I'm not sure about how much more zoos feel on average compared to other groups, but even if zoos did feel more, I don't think that makes being a bad person justifiable at all. Though it does make depression and suicide more understandable.
How did you meet the zoos you know, if I may ask?
It is insulting, I'm sorry but apparently true is what folks see. Over the last 25-30 years of watching the community I have found that it is really hard to be someone who doesn't share porno and get respect or the time of day. Many non-porn forums are desserts although knotty.me seems to be taking off well so far.
Maybe I was down that day as I do know folks who I respect, although few are on the net a lot.
As for feelings, perhaps empathy is a better word. We cannot ignore animals like so many seem to do. We empathize our parents negative emotions which distance us and so forth. Of course, that is a generalization too.
I certainly don't think that is any excuse for bad behaviour. I think we, as a group, have to do better. I've felt that for quite some time.
I met many zoos in the 90s when the talkers and particularly furryMUCK were going on. The sites weren't a group of zoos, but folks of alternate lifestyle which attracted zoos. I made a trip and met a whole bunch of folks. I was also lucky until I moved for my latest job in that there were a dozen or so local zoos where I was.
I've only had a few zoo friends visit in the last decade; so outside of the net not a lot of contact. I'm not sure the new job was worth it.
zoophiles in general tend to be misanthropic (it may be part of what makes us who we are, or at least for the zoo exclusive among us) and just plain.. "different". many of us have spent our formative years on the edge of social situations .. outcasts. some are better adjusted than others, but many take the outcast thing to heart, and it's hard to shake, hard to open up and accept others in a friendly way. and as you say .. "actually talking" is another facet of this same thing. you tend to internalize a lot when you're shunned by others. hence, many just plain remain quiet.
mostly i'm speaking for myself here, but i think it applies to a LOT of zoos.
all you can do is keep trying to reach out and hopefully find people you connect with.
That's really what I mean, I think. There's this assumption of this completely removed, island unto himself, personality. Which, at some level is understandable, but once it reaches a point it just feels like people are basking in some self-glorifying, entitled, semi-martyrdom.
I do make efforts to reach out, quite often. That's what led me to post here, is that it seems that many zoos are mean people who seem to lack that oft-quoted "above average empathy". In addition, many are abusive to animals. I don't believe that thing people keep saying about the internet either, as if there were people out there like me, they would be out on the internet as well.
Now this makes some interesting framing for discussion. I know that I had to fight to overcome various obstacles in my own life. With that, there were many paths where things might not have turned out so well. Many others did not make that progress into adulthood with the tools and self awareness to achieve some normalcy and balance. I have been fortunate to meet numerous zoos who likewise "made it through" I hope I'm lucky enough to meet more.
Being a zoo requires a much stronger ethical structure than being a normal person does, and it's a much harder life to live. When you think of the average person, I suppose it's not surprising that good zoos seem few and far between.
On balance, and taking cues from some I hold in high regard (in these cases, non zoo) ethical behaviour is actually a lot easier once passed a certain threshold. To name some characteristics, not having to keep track of lies, living my values, being able to lean into the needs of others etc...
In my case (and that's my own reference) many know that I'm zoo but they also know me as compassionate, committed, intelligent and able to apply even-handedness (third mind) to circumstances. Maybe I'm fortunate...
wow reading yalls posts is almost intimidating trying to come out and speak i am sorry if i have butted in if u will but i to am new to zoos and havent quite figured out who or anyone to talk to either just join reddit because it seems people here are truly more really and excepting of others and thats really comforting. i see the dedication and love in the words said and its calming to see people helping one another. it would be nice to speak to good people about the interests i share.
Feel free to PM. Many of us live that line where Kermit said - "It's not easy being green"