Question from my girlfriend (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2014-11-23 22:59:57 by furvert_tail Equine, large canid
My (human) girlfriend has asked an interesting question that I do not have an answer to.
Do dogs experience sexual/romantic jealously? My partner is monogamous, and by saying this has made it clear I am not allowed to do anything "like that" with a dog. Can dogs feel the same way? How would they express a desire for you to be monogamous with them?
(Same question applies to all other species, but it was asked about dogs).
Writing this question up gave me a hypothesis which I'd like to run by y'all.
Imagine three humans, named Alice, Bob, and Carol. Bob fancies Alice and Carol, but Alice wants Bob to be monogamous. There is an irrational thing that humans do that could be a pre-lingual functional equivalent to "Be monogamous": sometimes Alice will fight with Carol when she thinks Bob and Carol might get together (likewise Adam might fight with Carlos if Adam "is looking at my Beatrice"). Humans are just animals, and language is a recent thing in evolutionary terms — while fighting like this is rather irrational if you do have language, without language it's just a different way to say "Alice wants Bob all to herself".
Would a dog display a desire for you to be monogamous by fighting off who they perceive as other potential partners for you?
I've known dogs that get jealous of me showing affection to other dogs when they desired affection. Had a big fight between two huge Great Pyrenees bitches start over just that. Several people, including me, had to pull them apart by their collars and their tails, and they drew each other's blood in the end. I felt pretty bad about it, so from then on I had to be careful about showing one more affection over the other when they both desired it. They both ended up getting cuddling and petting at the same time to prevent any jealousy issues, which brought no complaints on my end :) . They otherwise got along fantastically together, although one was always pretty mean to the other.
I guess when it comes to dogs, that fighting would be a kind of resource guarding. They see attention and affection as a resource that, when they desire it, they want to protect from other dogs, a resource that they're aware comes from you, and also that other dogs can take away. I also don't think dogs feel the strong emotional attachment among each other as they do towards you, so they see you as the sole source of that kind of affectionate attention, making it worthy of guarding.
I'm not sure if that's like the human rationalized "monogamy," though. Dogs aren't typically sexually monogamous animals (unlike wolves), and they'll freely mate with many different dogs during their heat, with little fighting among other dogs. There are also zoos with multiple bitches, and their dogs seem to get along fine, even with different bitches mating right in front of them. Sex isn't seen as a resource worth guarding.
So I guess dogs can experience what you might define as "romantic" jealousy, in that they'll guard you as a resource of affection. But I don't see sexual jealousy as that big of a thing among dogs.
So, ultimately, I guess dogs displaying a desire for you to be monogamous by fighting each other depends on how you define monogamy.
As a footnote, however, I think wolves can feel both "romantic" and sexual jealousy, but they're a functionally different animal altogether.
I don't know about romantically jealous, but they certainly do get jealous of your attention. I had a dog that would pee on the carpet when I was in bed with a girl.
I like the answers that say there can be fights over attention and affection. If there is a pecking order, that is also important. You give too much goodies and petting to a low order horse but ignore a nearby higher rank horse, the later will see it as violation of that order and at least push the other horse away to get some treats himself.
I have seen jealousy in dogs, new people can't just suddenly sit in their spot on the coach sometimes. But the extent to which they will experience/express this probably varies a lot with the individual. Also female and male dogs are probably an important distinction.
With both dogs or horses the concept of monogamy doesn't exist for them. There are some species that live like that, although right now I can only come up with some birds as examples. So I doubt the desire for monogamy will form in that shape in their mind - and therefore I doubt they would express it. I have admittedly a hard time to think how they would express with absolute certainty a complex concept like that anyway. If your dog constantly bites your girlfriend, it may want you all for her, a reasonable working hypothesis. But not 100% certain she wants the tax breaks for married couples, right?
Also, I am not sure it is important, but keep in mind when discussing monogamy: The idea was for the longest time even in humans a simple contract, or an exchange of necessity. You need children for working the farm and as retirement insurance, you needed a partner that will not desert you if you fall ill, unable to work and care for yourself for some time. The idea that marriage should be based romantically on love almost only is put into practice for only maybe the last 100 years or so at best.
I was quite fascinated to discover that many of the species of birds that biologists and ornithologists once considered to be monogamous and pair-bonded for life were actually not so. They're quite crafty, and other male birds would often be tricked into raising another male's eggs, believing them to be his own.
I'm sure there are still some birds who are at least somewhat monogamous, but I get the impression that true monogamy is just an abstract ideal.
YES. They absolutely can. This is especially true with male dogs. If your GF is active with her / your dog, you need to be aware of it. If you two are messing around and he sees it, he will NOT be happy.
She's HIS bitch, and you're having sex with her! Now that said, male dogs will have lots of bitches, but he will vigorously guard HIS bitches... How will you know? When he growls and nips at you as you're giving her the cock. THEN you'll know