When I was younger, I thought I was a therianthrope - that is, someone whose species identity doesn't correspond with their biological species. It is similar to the way in which transgender individuals identify as a gender that doesn't correspond to their physical sex, but with species as opposed to gender.
I felt like a wolf in human clothing, to put it one way. While I was wrong (and no longer feel that way), for some individuals it becomes part of their identity.
Lately, I have been thinking about the intersections and compatibility of therianthropy and zoophilia. Do any of you identify as a species other than your physical one, or do you know somebody who does (zoo or otherwise)? Have you ever been led to question your humanity as a zoophile? And do you feel there is a common ground shared between the two groups?
...and no, I don't use Tumblr.
Edit: the downvote button isn't a disagreement button - stop downvoting comments that are on-topic and relevant. When in doubt, don't vote.
To a degree... When I was younger I felt a strong kinship to wolves, but I don't know if I ever felt like one, per se. I do remember wishing that I could be one a few times, but it's complicated to say if it's on the same level as being transgender (mostly due to my own mix of feelings in that area).
I don't know anyone who is a therianthrope, at least not anyone who is open about it...
Ok, now my curiosity is peaked. Time to start playing another round "So... random question..." with my friends. :)
As for questioning my humanity... I'm unsure of exactly what you mean. Are you refering to questioning my species identity or something more akin to defining what "humanity" is in the first place?
I used to be into that stuff back in high school. Found a bunch of therian websites and started reading about their experiences. That's also the time I got into the furry fandom. The psychology of human identity can be pretty fascinating. And for what it's worth, I was also really into werewolves throughout middle school and high school.
That being said, I have to call BS on the whole "therian" thing. Don't take this as a personal attack, by the way.
A human cannot "feel like" they're a wolf. The evolutionary tree between humans and wolves split way, way back. You can wish you were a wolf. You can admire wolves. You can be sexually attracted to wolves. And you can imagine what it's like to be a wolf. But you can't "feel like" you are a wolf because you don't have a wolf's biochemistry. You've never been a wolf, and you will never be a wolf. You're a human. It's as simple as that.
In short, most therians just really like the species they feel a connection to, and their whole "I'm actually not a human" thing is a delusion based on wishful thinking. There's a shit-ton of emotional projection going on there, too - they imagine all these positive personality traits that they see in themselves (or wish they saw in themselves), decide that their favorite animal is the embodiment of those traits, and then decide that they're "actually" that animal, just so they can further associate those traits with themselves.
I see transgenders as very different than therians. A transgender person is probably experiencing an overproduction of certain chemicals, or an over expression of certain genes, that are normally present in people of the opposite gender. Male and female humans are much closer biochemically than humans and wolves. So it's totally possible for a man to have the brain chemistry of a woman. Whereas it's totally impossible for a human to have the brain chemistry of a wolf.
Regarding therianthropy and zoophilia... the similarity is that both groups are abnormally attracted to animals. Therians are people who really like a certain animal and, for some reason, feel the need to reject their identity as a human.
For zoos, it's a lot simpler: we just think our favorite animal is sexy.
I am a straight male who is sexually attracted to female horses. For whatever reason, I think the equine body structure is incredibly attractive. I draw clop and furry porn. I look at clop and furry porn, and sometimes real horses too. I have a fursona (my fursona is a horse). And sometimes, I do wish I could experience what it's like to be a horse. But I do not believe that somewhere deep down inside, I'm "really" a horse. In fact, I have very little experience with horses in real life. I'm just a guy who appreciates the equine body a little more than usual.
So, the only common ground I see is that most groups like animals more than usual. Maybe therians are zoos in denial? I can't say. It's probably different for all of them. On the other hand, I also can't speak for all zoos. I can only speak for me.
I hope that answers your question.
Don't know why you were downvoted - that was a really well thought out and logical reply.
I probably offended someone. The nice thing is, I don't care about reddit karma.
i agree wholeheartedly. therianthropy has always bothered me. thank you for laying this out so well. people who think they're dragons or another mythological beast particularly annoy me...
People want to feel unique, I guess. There was a brief time in my life when I decided I was a dragon. But then I turned 13.
It's fine to be really obsessed with fantasy and imagine what it's like to be various different fantasy creatures. If you're writing a fantasy novel, it's mandatory. It's also not normal, but I don't have a problem with it. But publicly describing yourself as "actually an X" crosses the line between "very interested" and "crazy".
I can get behind THAT username :)
I had a better one, but then I deleted that account because it got too much attention.
Are you on /r/finehorses (and I am having a serious blond moment)? Would you like to have a look? It's very photogenic there.
Ah, yeah, the attention. I have burned a couple of accounts and with those probably about 10,000 karma points - but who cares :P Once some woman from Mongolia (of all places!) freaked out over me, or rather over the delusions she formed in her mind, and started a huge internet campaign against me. I just deleted the account and made a new one, lol. Probably just counting up the number in h42 from now on...
Well, you might think it's "BS", and really, I don't think I'll be able to convince you.
But that claim that nobody can truly know what it's like to "feel like a [insert non-human animal]" can be refuted in two ways:
But I do know what urges, instincts and feelings I have, and I know that it is not a choice. At least not a concious choice. Perhaps something went wrong during early childhood. Perhaps it's a particular flavor of "crazy" that's pretty much harmless. Perhaps those spiritual folks are right, and it's due to reincarnation or something. Perhaps the combination of weird instincts is just a fluke. I don't know. I don't care. All I know is that I'm the happiest when I can find a balance between human and wolf things in my life, and that I can't really discard one part of me just because people say that feeling like I do should be impossible.
Some people argue that it's impossible to be more attracted to non-human animals than to fellow humans, or that it should be treated and "cured", yet here we are.
Yes, we often use metaphors like "I feel old" or "I feel like a zombie". However, there are two key points regarding that:
1 - You are correct when you say that nobody can really know what it's like to "feel old" or "feel like a zombie", unless they are old, or are a zombie. In that sense, using a metaphor like that may be incorrect. However, that doesn't refute my original point that humans can't know what it's like to be a non-human animal. It just means that people who causally use metaphors are often wrong.
2 - Yes, many people take transgenders at their word when they say that they're really the opposite gender. But many people only accept them because it has become politically indefensible not to. Some people may actually have chemical imbalances that cause them to feel a certain way. Others might just be making shit up for attention. Gender politics is not black and white; all you have to do is visit /r/tumblrinaction and look at some of the 20 or so new, made-up words that tumblrites have created to describe their new, made-up genders to come away feeling a little jaded.
Regarding "wolf feelings". I have spent a lot of time imagining what it's like to be a different animal. In middle school, I read and wrote werewolf-themed short stories, and I had nine or ten distinct dreams that I was a werewolf within a one-year period (I actually started counting them). Like you, being a wolf in my dreams felt completely natural. And yeah, of course I wish I had enhanced senses and animal-like powers. That's badass. But wishing for that and having wolf-related dreams doesn't mean I was born into the wrong body, or that my dreams are an accurate reflection of a wolf's experiences. It just means I have an active imagination.
Lastly, humans are predators. Early humans did hunt, and many people still do. So the next time you feel like running down a deer, killing it, and eating it, remember that it's not unnatural for humans to feel that way.
I believe you when you say your feelings aren't a choice. But I don't believe the spirituality argument, and I don't believe that you're a "wolf born into a human's body", whatever that's supposed to mean. I think you're a human being who is very curious about other animals, feels a strong connection to nature, and really, really loves wolves.
As long as you're not hurting yourself or anyone else, do what makes you happy. But if you want to make friends in real life, don't introduce yourself to strangers by saying "Hi, I'm susitar and I'm not really a human, I'm actually a wolf." That's weird.
Why would I introduce myself in that manner? I don't introduce myself as a zoophile or as bisexual for that matter... I act as a normal person when out among people, especially at work. I don't go chasing cats or whatever. People generally don't tell everybody about their personal quirks. I have told some people close to me, and they have accepted this particular weirdness. After all, it doesn't harm anybody.
You might think it's completely normal human behaviour to want to tear down a deer with my teeth and share it with a wolf pack, but I know many who would disagree. If all humans would howl, walk on four feet, pant, whine, feel an intense lust to mate in late winter etc, perhaps I wouldn't call myself a wolf. But then there would still be that part that I would want to have a wolf body. It's not about being a superhero. Wolves are not better than any other animals. They might have better sense of smell than humans, but their colour vision is worse. They might be better runners than sloths, but sloths are cool in their own regard. etc. All animals are cool, including humans.
My favorite animals are actually foxes and cats.
Besides, I would argue that it could be possible that therians have some kind of imbalance in the brain as well. I do not mean that we actually have wolf brains or cat brains or whatever. Just that some part, possibly the part that makes us identify with humans around us, is broken and the rest kind of comes from that. I don't know. There isn't enough research into this.
But, I do not want to argue with you. You at least try to be respectful, and do not (as many others) try to convince me to "get treated" (my psychologists have said this "wolf thing" is just fine), that I should get locked up etc. Just understand that when I call myself a wolf person, that describes my feelings and my identity.
I agree with most, but not all, of what you say. As with Susitar, I think the typical use of "I feel like X" is such a widely used metaphor, that it's valid to say "I feel like a wolf" when you have no true knowledge of what that's like. What I think a wolf is like and what you think a wolf is like may not be the same, but our ideas are (perhaps) similar enough to be useful for communicating our internal states.
While I believe as you do that transgender is very different from therianthropy, the subjective experience seems similar, albeit less traumatic. Most therians I've interacted with seem more analogous to gender-fluid than to gender dysphoria... but that might be related to most of those therians being furries too.
I can speak at least a little for the trans gender and not feeling like a human, though not at all for zoophilia or therianthropy as I am neither. As far as for trans, I am agender but also a little gender fluid. Basically this means most of the time I literally feel like I have no gender, and without any choice or able to control it, it sometimes changes to feel as though I am something else. Therianthropy by my guess would be more of a choice, even if not consciously, where as feeling like a different gender then the sex you were born with is not, though it is difficult to explain, as how do you even define regular binary genders without talking purely about physical traits and such? As for not feeling human, it could be in part something like Dissosiative Identity Disorder, which is characterized by feeling like you are not actually part of you body and often play things out as characters you create. It is usually triggered by traumatic event(s). I used to have DID so I know what it is like. Additionally despite no longer having DID, as still for some reason have a sensation like the term human does not apply to me. I recognize that I am of course a homo sapien, but for some reason beyond my knowledge I without conscious will do not feel like a human. I do not feel like I am any other species either though, but I could see how such a belief could develop if others do not feel human either.
As for sexual attraction at all I really have little room to speak. I am asexual, but I often wonder if I am fluid based on complicated things I do not want to bore you with the detials. So I think I might experience different sexual attractions, but really, being asexual I do not actually know for certain what sexual attraction is. I do experience romantic attraction, so I can understand on some level about the potential relationship of zoophilia and therianthropy, but really have no room to talk because I do not really know what it is like. I guess I do experience a few minor fetishes and some amount of sensual attraction (which is different than sexual attraction), but it is not enough to really give any real information to me.
Anyway that is my two cents on this subject. I do not know if it helps at all, but I do find this topic interesting. Also great explanation btw. I do not know if it holds any truth or not not experiencing either of these things and all, but it is interesting.
As a young child I would stare at my hands and wonder how come they weren't Paws. I also referred to two dogs as my mother and brother, since me and my brother dog were born in the same month, they were my dog family and I was more driven to them over my human family. Till this day I still look at my hands but I no longer wonder why they are different, but why was I born in the wrong species.
I am a wolf therian, and I'm attracted to wolves and wolf-like dogs. I do think there is a logical connection between these. I am not sexually attracted to fishes, or sheep or other animals, even though when growing up, I met sheep and fishes up close far more often than dogs.
I came to the conclusion that I was a wolf therian before I understood that I was a zoophile. And being a wolf is a much bigger part of my identity than being attracted to wolves is.
I'll answer that part of therians being "BS" under that specific post. Hang on...
I never really had this problem, but i dont think it's a bad thing at all, and i can definitely understand it. I do feel like it's something you'd see being better respected in the furry community but i see it being compatible with zoophilia as well.
I have questioned my humanity as a zoophile though, specifically as to why i would end up where i am now as a zoophile, but this hasnt led me in any way to view myself as an animal.