You: What don't you like about it in real life? just wondering
Stranger: Animal cruelty and subjecting them to that kind of thing really. Lack of consent and whatnot.
You: Hm, if you say so.
You: Though, I don't really see how it's animal cruelty if the human is a passive participant.
Stranger: I don't think cruelty is limited to aggressive or violent actions I suppose.
You: Well, if somebody were to let a dog mount them, they don't force anything into the dog, or make it do anything that makes it uncomfortable, and they get the right type of condom to eliminate the risk of std, at what point does that harm the dog...?
Stranger: Behavioural conditioning I suppose.
Stranger: I'd be more worried about the person's mental health.
You: why's that?
Stranger: Well I guess for the same reasons someone rubbing their own poop on the walls would worry me.
Stranger: Then again there's risk of disease and infection with the poop thing, so can I not use that example?
You: Yeah, sure, if you have another example, fire away
Stranger: Well, that was sarcasm actually.
You: oh okay, sorry, hard to tell with text
Stranger: Yeah.
Stranger: Anyway, if you're subjective enough, the dog doesn't give a fuck, but a cow really wouldn't give a fuck if you chopped off one of it's legs and shove it up its ass.
Stranger: Humans think very differently from most animals, I'm not a fan of subjecting them to those parts of our minds.
You: Well, I guess if it's your opinion, but do you think that it's bad enough to be illegal?
Stranger: In the same way suicide is I suppose, illegal for the sake of mental treatment.
Stranger: I wouldn't lock someone up for shagging a sheep, but there's definitely not something right up there if those fluffy asses get them going.
You: In your opinion...
Stranger: Well again if you want to be subjective sure, it's socially unacceptable.
Stranger: If you want to move to Wales or New Zealand though.
You: I don't find sheep attractive, but I do find dogs attractive, I can't explain why in the same why I can't explain why I find human men attractive.
You: I guess you can say that I'm mentally unstable but I don't see why
Stranger: What's the difference in fucking a dog and a kid?
Stranger: Is it that the kid is human?
You: The dog has a form of a sex drive and doesn't have the cognitive abilities to feel bad about fucking a human
You: I don't top dogs
You: I think that's wrong
Stranger: So you think that a child can top, then it's okay?
Stranger: Same as a dog?
You: No
You: Because the child can feel used
You: it has the cognitive abilities to analyse the situation and feel regret
You: the dog doesn't
Stranger: So the difference is intelligence?
You: Not really, the difference is more that one is harmed and one isn't
Stranger: Why is one harmed, because it can feel differently?
You: I don't really get what you're saying
You: if you're worried about how dogs feel about fucking humans, then you better stop them fucking each other too
You: and when I say fucking, I mean, being on top, I would only be the passive member in sex, if it were with a dog
Stranger: I'm just trying to find out exactly what the difference is. So far it's some emotional thing kids have that dogs don't?
You: I don't see how it's so hard to understand, if dogs felt regret and experienced mental trauma from fucking humans, they'd feel the same about fucking another dog
You: Children do not have a sex drive in any form of the word
You: Dogs do
Stranger: I'm not really saying they do, I don't think they do.
Stranger: 12 year olds have a sex drive, do you think that's old enough to fuck someone?
Stranger: Well, your experience is kind of close to that I suppose.
You: but a child would feel mental trauma from having sex with someone, I do not feel completely at ease with the fact that I sucked another guy off at that age, but dogs don't feel the same
Stranger: What I'm trying to argue for is consent, dog's can't give it, they barely comprehend what they're doing. Children can't give it, they're too young to be fully aware of what they're doing.
Stranger: If a retarded person wanted to fuck you, would it be okay?
Stranger: Let's say they're completely screwed in the head in that regard.
You: Well, they probably wouldn't want to fuck me, if they're completely screwed
You: which is why I wouldn't do it
Stranger: Or even better, a retarded 12 year old.
Stranger: So you're saying it IS consent?
You: Aright, let's say it is, do you eat meat? do you support spaying and neutering dogs? have you ever pet a dog before? all of that requires consent if they were human, why care so much about consent when it comes to sex?
You: What I'M saying, is that the importance of sex, is something that humans have made up, the type of trauma dogs feel if they are sexually abused is the same as the trauma they feel when they are abused is any other way, for humans, it differs, because we have placed so much importance on sex, and differed it so much from other interactions.
Stranger: I don't think sex is on the same level as any of those things.
You: Letting a dog mount me, is basically the same as me petting a dog, he doesn't see much difference
Stranger: Oh my fucking god damn it.
Stranger: Stop fucking animals.
Stranger has disconnected.
I think I may have made a few factual mistakes or maybe I just handled it badly, which is why I'm looking for a bit of help on here, if you can correct me on any mistakes I made, please do. Also, side note, it may have gotten a bit flamey at times, for which I apologize.
Well, a couple of things. Your style was very passive and so your "opponent" was able to change the topic away from his weak points repeatedly and maintain control of the conversation.
Children are not the same as adult animals. Adult animals have fully developed sexual drive and organs, children do not, equating the two is not something I allow my opponents to do. Your arguments on the social consequences of sex with children were lost when he went on about sex drive, again comparing retarded people to animals is also not reasonable since adult healthy animals are not mentally deficient. I probably would have pressed the meat issue, since he'd have to justify why murder is okay and "rape" isn't.
I've come to be so irritated with so many people immediately jumping to "but dogs are like children" immediately as their "main" reason I wouldn't even try to argue the differences anymore.
"Can you please stop talking about human children? The topic is to what degree a dog can consent and whether a dog is harmed, not a human child. Do you have an argument and/or evidence that is independent from human children? Because that's rather dangerously close to an Argument from analogy."
To be honest i have never been fearful of a six year old child, but I have been of a six year old dog. Right there is a big difference.
I agree. The "stranger" steered the conversation to keep you on the defensive by using bogus comparisons. I would not entertain a debate that compares dogs to a different species, or humans.
People like to compare dogs to young people because that's how they treat them at home. They put hats on them, stupid looking dresses and push them around in baby carriages.
humans have evolved to eat meat, they haven't evolved to fuck animals
Yeah, sure. Anything you don't like we've not evolved for... Or, as it is usually put, is not "natural". A poor argument indeed.
We didn't evolve for anal sex, flight, to live in houses, play football....
Anyhow, your argument isn't very compelling. As a matter of fact interspecies sex happens regularly "in nature" but I guess it's still not "natural" to you.
I think you had the right ideas, but your opponent was pushy enough to keep you on the back foot, which prevented you from making the points you were trying to. Be careful though - it is possible to have consensual penetrative sex, you know.
I think this is just a matter of experience - the more people you talk to, the more likely you are to see through strawmen and false analogies. They are essentially red herrings, and using them leads you away from your original point and into somewhere irrelevant. The guy you were arguing with is one of the worst, because he is at once a little aggressive and a bad debater. If that isn't recognised, people like that will drag you to their level and beat you with experience.
If you want to talk about formulating solid arguments for zoophilia, feel free to PM or message me on Skype: my username is the same.
I do love it when they ragequit.
Be careful with Omegle. They log all conversations with certain keywords, and you'll probably be banned for this sooner or later. I used to do this, and I only used Omegle to debate things, and I was banned.
You did all right, just be more assertive and don't let them equate animals to children.
Yeah, I was banned a while ago, I'm not sure why though...