Partner is a zoophile, but I'm not.... (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2015-03-14 20:32:27 by cataron
We have two mini poodles and his attraction to animals has always been a theoretical thing, until recently. We went to a party with a large dog and he told me it's becoming a more solid thing he thinks he wants to do in real life.
I was working on being okay with hypothetical zoophilia, but I'm not entirely sure I can let him do this in real life. On the flip side, I really don't want to force him to deny this part of himself....or end up doing things anyway and just not telling me.
If I ask him not to, am I making him deny a big part of himself? Is it possible for him to even deny it?
Just looking for some advice, I'm sorry fi I've offended anyone or if this isn't the place to post.
Welcome! Thank you for having the courage to post here.
Put simply, it depends on the standpoints that both of you hold. For him, it would be a matter of determining what's important. Some nonexclusive zoophiles need simultaneous human and animal relationships in order to feel fulfilled; others can be fulfilled with only one or the other. He may have an interest in being with a dog but with no major repercussions from not doing so, or he may become chronically unhappy or depressed due to that lack.
Please do not feel insufficient if the latter is true: it isn't your fault or doing, and you cannot control his attractions or longings. What you can do, however, is ask yourself why you would rather him not have a relationship with a dog as well as yourself. Do you want him to remain monogamous? Would you struggle being intimate with him if you knew he'd done it with dogs too? Or do you simply worry about the dog's welfare, consent and such? If either of first two are true, then that is something you will have to present to him clearly in an ultimatum, and hope that some placation can be achieved. If the latter is true though, then there is ample evidence to show that bestiality can be consensual, and if you wish to ask the community here about it, you are most welcome.
I do wish to ask about that I guess. I know there's research and stuff out there, I just can't bring myself to search for it. He's more into, basically, bottoming from animals than anything else, so that eases my conscience a lot. But I also know if he started bottoming for anything, he would also end up penetrating them (it's just not his first priority there).
Our dogs have shown zero interest in him. If they showed some interest, this might be more okay. They're very licky dogs, but seem to avoid sexual areas with a purpose and whenever we start having sex/masturbating, they leave the area as soon as they notice.
So what is your biggest objection to this whole scenario? Beside, you know, the animal-fucking. You're poly, so it's not that he's with 'someone else,' and yet you say he would be bottoming, which eases your conscience. Why would it be worse if he is doing the penetrating?
That's absolutely the right attitude to take. There have been three times I almost lost my virginity, but I stopped before getting to that point because the horse and two dogs showed no real interest.
You know your partner better than any of us do. When it comes to consent, does he look for enthusiasm (great!), or mere assent (I'd be worried about that)?
The research is good for understanding demographics but it wouldn't help you to find what you're looking for anyway, I don't think.
If he and the dog were to turn the tables, he'd have to keep the dog's welfare and happiness as his top priorities, no pun intended. Most male dogs don't enjoy or tolerate that sort of thing, and I hope he's decent enough to respect the dog's wishes in that case.
I would say that your dogs have no interest in your sexual activities because they've been taught that they can't hang around, since dogs have no natural aversion to human sexual activities. I'd imagine that, after a number of years of being put out of the room while you two have fun, they've simply learnt to vacate the area when you do it. The same logic would apply to private areas: they've likely learnt that they can't go near there, so they don't try.
See thats what I thought you did.
He thinks dogs are sexy. That doesn't mean he needs to have sex with them in order to be his true self. There's people who think 12 year old girls are sexy... is it denying their true nature to not go out and rape one every once in a while?
I.e. Don't be silly. He isn't being denied by not having sex with a dog. The word denial should be reserved for things more important than sexual want or attraction. You're his wife. That's a pretty big deal. You're his #1 companion until death.
He's saying he wants more sexual companionship, from other companions? Remember, you're his #1 priority and his life is plenty fulfilling with you already.
Sorry man I dont agree with this.
Maslow's heirarchy of needs says that love is 3rd most important behind having food and shelter. I'm not sure how much more important something needs to be for you to say that something cant be denied. Again, if sexuality wasnt so important, the LGBT crowd would be pushing so hard for acceptance.
If you were to tell me I could never have the chance to have sex with a dog I would be very very unhappy. You would be denying me a major part of myself. This is why I feel so sorry for people who are pedophiles, as they are actually in that situation whereby they cant act on their feelings. And no, I dont think we should let them have sex with children, as much as I feel bad for them, they've got to live with it unfortunately. For someone to deny their sexuality is someone who denies their very being.
apparently not... Maybe this would be a one time thing for him to fill out a fantasy, but it might not be, I guess OP will have to find out about that.
I get what you're saying and what you mean, but I don't fully agree with this either. Like Tundrovyy said, some non-exclusive zoos can do fine with either a human relationship or an animal relationship, but some people need both. I'm one of the folks who need both. No matter how wonderful and perfect a human relationship was, I don't think I could handle not being able to have a relationship with an animal. I would most likely become very depressed, I wouldn't be complete; because I need an animal relationship as well as a human one to be emotionally fulfilled. I can't "turn off" this part of myself that needs an animal relationship just because I'm in a human one.
Yes, he's made a commitment to her and that's very important to address, but we don't know what kind of attraction he has for animals or what kind of relationships he needs to be in to be emotionally healthy. If he needs to be both with humans and animals to be fulfilled, he can't help that. Being unable to express/act on a big part of your sexuality (in any context, zoo or not) really tears people up emotionally.
I asked him where he felt he lies on the spectrum between zoophilia and beastiality, and he said somewhere inbetween, if that makes sense.
No worry. This is a great place to post this. And a perfectly valid question.
One that is however not easily answered. That is because we have you and him and the whole dynamic of a human relationship here. From your post it is difficult to garner details about you as persons. Or about how the relationship is going and related things. Also, the topic you are asking about is a bit more complicated than say asking if he spends too much time with his trainset hobby. In the course of getting answers here discussions what zoophilia is and if your guy "really has it" may well erupt. So kindof take it cum grano if in doubt what is answered.
Since he says it and since he uses that term i assume he spent a lot of time getting to know himself. So currently i guess it is "real" with him. What does that mean for your relationship? Well, bluntly, it will rather not disappear. And suppressing it is difficult. So much so that it will be a source of sorrow, unhappiness and even anger. Zoophilia is more like a genuine sexuality in my opinion than a fetish. Some - in particular non-zoophiles disagree, but for me it is pretty clear. And it is virtually impossible to deny your sexuality. With a huge effort, with drugs or with the 'threat' of severe punishment (from law enforcement to 'god' and 'hell') it is possible to not act on it during a lifetime. But the subconcious will sneak in as soon as the guard is lifted a bit. He'll dream of it, masturbate to it, and get erections at dog shows. If forever ignored, some subconciousnesses avenge themselves in all kinds of mental or physical problems. So will it go away? No. Can he deny it? Yes, at a perhaps huge cost.
How big is this part of him? I don't know. If he has you and other hobbies and kids and a great job to keep him occupied it may well be a thing he just occasionally dreams of on the way to work when stuck in a traffic jam. Then the denial is easier but the topic will still be inflammatory within your relationship. If he is very closely guarded with no friends and a mcjob, then it is a bigger part perhaps, and might grow into a bigger 'problem'. I can't gauge that for you, you are at the scene not me.
Overall i don't recommend suppressing it completely. So let me take this freedom and go a step beyond... why are you asking if you could request of him to do so? Well, perhaps you are disgusted by it. If so, that is ok and a valid feeling. But your disgust alone is no reason to ask him to completely forever forget about dogs. Perhaps you think it is animal abuse. Mini poodles would indeed be too small for p-in-v sex. But animals in general can well agree to sex and enjoy it. A dog stud typically doesn't need a first invitation, even. There every case needs to be judged individually. A large female dog suits a human, and if he's romancing her right, she can eventually agree to sex. Think about it: you could probably watch to make sure it's no abuse.
A bigger topic is what kind of relationship you two want. And while the above seems a bit against you, here you definitely have just as much to say. Imagine he had told you he discovered a homosexual side in him and wants to explore that now (or a hetero side, if applicable). Are you personally ok with him having some side flings then with other men? Or do you prefer the full true-faith modell of a partnership or marriage? If that is your concern, you might well ask him not to on the grounds that you want this model. Or you two have to negotiate what you get in return. Can you explore other men/women too while he is 'at the dog show'? Is that even a goodie that would work for you? Can you get a lavish weekend with your friends paid by him instead in return? Something that would compensate you. Because exploring zoophilia with other dogs is like3/4 of the way to saying one wants a housefriend or affair wirh the girl from down the street isthatokwithyou? Zoophiles see animals on the same level as humans after all. But many such models are exercised with humans involved only. From open marriages to free love and i dont know what.
So make up your mind about these things and then compromise if you two want this relationship to continue. A big question is where you two see your futures. Do you have kids or both want some? Great. But if he is constantly planning to buy a dog breeding operation, you should perhaps look for something else. It is important that both of you can life with this relationship and both of you get out some things you want from it, as well as put in a fair share each. And that should hold true now as well as into the indefinite future with your plans and hopes.
Talk to each other. Be positive about it in general. It is not animal abuse and not wrong in itself. If you find it disgusting that is ok. He'd probably find it disgusting if you pooped on the floor. But everyone poops, right? Talk about your plans, the future and your relationship. What would you both ideally want? Can you compromise? At the very least, if he gives in to a full-faithful model by god let him still watch the porn, don't scold him about it and let him slip in some doggy remarks and jokes once in a while. Perhaps you would both like petplay in the bedroom. Perhaps you can agree that both of you get the saturday 'off' from the relationship and can go have sex as you like with others.... many many things and arrangements are possible.
We are actually both bisexual, and non-monogamous, however our non-monogamy is exclusively polyfidelity (we date people together). So I understand what a big side of him I would be asking him to suppress. There's also some history of unfaithfulness between us, and he has a bad habit of just not telling me things.
I really worry that I will say "No, you can't do this, it's me or this." and he will sneak around and do it anyway. I realize that's not something anybody but him can fix, but you can tell me if, in your situation, the cost is great enough that it hurts you.
Yes, it does disgust me too. But I'm trying to process how to deal with this. Previously, with other fetishes and sexualities, we've dealt with it by basically the other person realizing they like it too, and that's just not gonna happen with this.
I also have a low libido (I would technically identify as greysexual if I didn't hate the word so much) so having such strong sexual desires is hard for e to wrap my head around in the first place. I'm really into putting fun shaped things in his butt though, and doing him with dog dildos is definitely on the list. But it doesn't seem to be enough for him.
Hm, i see. To that i would comment that first of all: Great, it isn't a complete train wreck. You don't seem to be the classic church-going monogamous couple. Although if i may point out a history of unfaithfulness and him not telling you things is not 100% polyfidelity. But that isn't strictly the topic right now. On the other hand he told you about this, which most people would never do out of fear. If he isn't completely careless that is a big sign he trusts you, right?
I wouldn't say zoophilia is a 'strong' sexual urge. Some people cuddle with their dogs all day long but never have penetrative sex. Also yes, there are things that look similar. Quite a lot of people argue that for the fetish to have sex with animals without a partnership like emotional bond the word bestiality should be used. A zoophile in comparision has that strong emotional bond in addition. He or she wants 'their' horse ideally, not just any horse. And there are neighboring areas like dog-furries, dog petplayers, etc. It is said almost all of the online pornography was made with bored heterosexuals who needed a larger fix in mind. Some 'normal' people told me they liked the 'degrading' of the actress who had intercourse with a dog for money. Take these as information that the spectrum is much much larger here than first meets the eye...
Perhaps if you do some serious petplay that would be it for you two?
But to answer your question: I would indeed say in my case I paid dearly for my zoophilia. Not for that thing itself. The harm comes from this strong taboo society places on it. Hiding it all the time is a huge effort. Also, you inevitably are odd, you cannot participate in guy-talk at school or work if you never had a girlfriend and don't get why everyone obsesses about that. Often, it isn't easy to meet horses that way. You need privacy and security. Most people end up buying there own horse after years of mostly dry spells. Fencehopping happens too, but is now frowned upon by the zoophiles. Also, it is illegal entering a property at night... I must appear cold and reserved towards my family, since i can never invite them to family functions or introduce a girlfriend to them. I think they take that a bit as I don't like them, or a big oddity they are too polite to ask about. Sometimes i faked interest in girls or imitated other peoples man-talk to get over it. I do really badly at parties and i am seldom invited anyway. I have paid for expensive riding lessons just to get a 15 min change to pet the horse and sneak in a kiss on the nose. I fear if i am found out i'll be pitchforked, my career will be busted unrecognizably in an instant...
And despite all of this, i can't stop liking horses. Eventually i always find myself back at looking at zoo-pornography, or back at a horseshow, or buying carrots once again because i saw a horse and could say hello on the way back. Whoever says sex with a horse is for the simpleton and the easy way out if you didn't get a girlfriend has no clue how hard it is to have that kind of sex in our urban society. Take your dogs eg. If they are not interested, then they aren't. Continuing would be abuse. So now for the easy task of how do i date dogs to find if they are interested- dogs i can and eventually have to buy- without the owner noticing? Or navigating the minefield of online dating in that area. Where often nobody shows, and there's a handsome chance it is a total weirdo or creep with a dog or the popo with a non-kinky pair of cuffs.
What kind of animal love your guy has i cannot diagnose from the distance. But in order for you to get a non-nasty impression of zoophilia, i recommend the book 'the horse man' written by Mark Matthews. It shows up in Amazon if you search for it specifically.
Hello Cataron, My partner brought this post to my attention as it is something I too have wondered a lot about. He is a regular on here, this is my first post though I have read and interjected previously via him. I am in a very similar situation to yours. If zoophiles are rare, surely people like us, non-zoos who love zoos and are aware and somewhat amenable to the concept, are even rarer so its nice to find someone to talk to :-)
My partner came out to me about 6 months into our relationship. We had already discussed it as a theoretical concept quite a bit before then, which I think for me softened the "blow". A lot of people when hit with an unfamiliar concept, the instinct is to bolt. High five to you for seeking more info first :-)
The two things that have worked for us thus far are -1)total openness and 2) time. Insofar as total openness is concerned, this means everything (in our case) from asking him about passing dogs and their relative attractive/unattractive features, to saying what I am and am not comfortable with at the immediate moment, with space for but no pressure to change. I also had to stop him from making comments like "but I'm not a dog" when I call him sexy. So you need to find out if there are any tiny habits that grate on you, no matter how minute! And delve into them. You need him on your side if you're going to be on his. And thats where the time comes in, too. At the moment, my partner and I are gridlocked because I am a highly monogamous person; all my theoretical acceptance doesn't seem to negate the hurt I feel by any steps towards practice, as such. At the same time, neither of us want him to live a whole life without exploring the full extent of his identity and desires. So we are at a loss as to how to deal with this, but for now my main focus is building up understanding of who he is and what his deepest desires are, and to look for ways to incorporate these without putting me under undue pressure. That kinda thing.
Hope this helps a little. Good luck, it's not easy, but it can be very rewarding.
This is an interview of a guy, married 20 years, who is also a zoo. Being for a magazine it is not in-depth but might give you some hope? It is more recent than "The Horseman" and I think in a limited way, more positive on human relationships in a zoosexual context.
http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/11/what-its-like-to-date-a-horse.html
Thanks for sharing - this is a very interesting, informative and moving interview. I think for me, it is patently obvious that the interviewee loves his mare more intensely than his wife, which makes me pretty nervous. I've said to my partner that the only way I could be okay with non monogamy (animal or human) is if I always came first for him. I wonder how one would balance this, as we can't force love. On the other hand it is really nice to get a feel for what the experience of true love across species feels like.
To be completely honest, I think you need to take a look at the polyamous "lifestyle" and see what compromises and promises are made there that work. While "I always come first" may work for part of the relationship, it may not always be the best choice. I consider myself in a poly relationship and the same "dangers" and "problems" occur when one of the partners isn't human as when all partners are human. The poly world might give you some insight on how it could work.
don't let him fuck your dogs