Sorry if I write so much weird stuff on here.... I just want to get these thoughts and opinions out of my own head... I want other people to know and connect somehow.
And I'm sure you all know that an opinion which approves of a thing such as zoophilia/bestiality is not a popular opinion among the "normals." It seems like much of society really hates zoophilia... However my feeling about zoophilia is very much the opposite to their feeling. And I feel passionately about how I feel about zoophilia- and how I very much LOVE zoosexuality. So of course, I don't relate very well with most people on this point. ...I'm hoping that zoophiles will be more apt to "get it." ....So I'm here.
So..... another big topic has to do with our terminology that we use in this community. I'll just be brief at the moment and say that it seems to be that a lot of zoophiles will think that 'bestiality' implies a sexual contact between humans and non-humans where there is no love involved in the act. I don't think that we should use the term in that way. I see many zoophiles trying to say that "there is a difference between zoophilia and bestiality." Zoophilia means "love of animals" -that is the actual translation of the term.... but by that definition probably anyone could technically be a zoophile- whether your love for animals is purely platonic or otherwise. There's nothing controversial about loving animals platonically. We have not formed this community (which is frowned upon and not accepted by the rest of society) because we just care about and really love animals. No- we have this community because of our controversial sexual interest in other species (animals)...... So what MAKES us different from the other groups in society is that we do/are into bestiality. The simple term of 'zoophilia' does not really imply any sexuality. I think these people who are involved in bestiality who like to refer to themselves as 'zoophiles' are choosing that term because what they ultimately are trying to do is they are trying to have people know that when they are doing bestiality they are doing it with loving intentions towards the animal as opposed to "love-less" bestiality or bestiality for the purpose of masturbation on the part of the human. It makes sense why we would want to make this distinction in our community.
However, I think that the term of 'bestiality' itself doesn't actually say anything about why someone engages in the act of bestiality. That is how I think we should treat the term.. We shouldn't just try to distance ourselves from the term and say like, "what we do is not really bestiality." I say what we do IS bestiality. And bestiality is what really is bringing our community together. I think it is good that there is a word to describe our unique kind of sex. When a human has sex with a non-human animal we call that bestiality. The word bestiality doesn't say anything about motivations as to why someone engages in the act of bestiality. And I believe that humans might do bestiality for many various different reasons. I believe that sometimes bestiality may be a harm-less act and sometimes it may be a harmful act- just like any other kind of sexual activity. I don't think that we zoos should try to distance ourselves from this term or act like the word is the Devil incarnate. I think we should just think of it and use it in a way where it means "sexual contact between a human and a non-human animal." Obviously not all forms of sexual contact between a human and non-human animal are romantic and loving toward the animal. I don't think that we zoos should try to distance ourselves from the term, however. It IS what we do.
Anyway.. That turned out to be long! Well I'm all out of time and I didn't even get to what I wanted to talk about... X( Thanks anyways, guys!
<3
The problem are the connotations. Maybe generally people view it differently, but after I've been reading a bit how the zoophilia - haters talk, they often treat it synonymously with rape of/forced sex with an animal.
Why is there a special word and why is it such a weird one? Is there some other form of sex where you wouldn't just say sex, but a completely different word? And how does bestiality come to mean sex anyway? When it's coming from "bestial", how does that relate to sex? It could relate to anything. In fact, it has another meaning of extreme violence and brutality too. Would gay people be okay with a word describing their sexual acts that has a second meaning of extreme violence?
edit: I think we should just say "Sex with animals". It's as neutral as it gets and perfectly descriptive.
They treat it synonymously with rape/forced sex because that's just what they assume any sex between humans and animals amounts to- it isn't because the word 'bestiality' makes them view it that way. We could call it anything and they would still be against it and say it is rape.
Examples of forms of sex where you wouldn't just say sex: fellatio cunnilingus anal sodomy incest rimming
It is a description of what is occurring specifically- that is why we have words. A word can represent a concept. You will agree that when sex occurs between a human and a non-human animal this is a special kind of sex I think that is deserving of a word. I'm just throwing that out there.
'Bestial' relates to sex because bestial basically means, "of or like an animal or animals." It is the thinking that sex ironically acknowledges our animal nature.. It acknowledges that we are mortal and we die just like the beasts do. Lust is thought to be something which is instinctual in us and so we fear it. Humans are very much afraid of death... this is why they invent (I believe they invent) all these religions. When humans first started making art it was cave paintings demonstrating our awesome visual memories and our study of the other creatures- and perhaps even great admiration of the other animal species and we were a rather intelligent prey species that began to work with some of the other species to become great in a sense and to dominate the Earth in some way- and essentially disrupting the natural order so to speak. We have risen to a level of dominance which is beyond that which the top predators of the old world once occupied which we once only dreamed to be like and now sadly humans are only self-obsessed and worship the human race which I feel is a grave mistake but back to bestial. Bestial also means brutal and savage- which is another way that humans view animals as. Most animals have sharp teeth and claws that catch, bite, kill, rip apart, eating other creatures alive hungrily, seemingly lacking remorse or empathy. This is how beasts are and they are like monsters especially from the perspective of a fragile prey species such as humans.
Bestiality really means the state of being bestial. In other words you are a human engaging with your animal nature. It's thought that when a human has sex with a non-human beast this human has committed him/herself to animal-ness. Not only is this person being sexual- and therefore acknowledging their animality there- but they are also doing the deed with a beast... that is like doubly being bestial. You are following your animal instincts to engage in sex and you are doing it with animals which is further distancing yourself from the notion of Human specialness- the idea that humans are or should be of a superior quality spiritually than the lowly beasts that live, fuck, eat, poop and die living as a mortal piece of meat responding to whatever sensory information is in your environment living moment to moment and your whole purpose is to kill, eat, repeat.
And don't you ever hear things like, for example, fights that break out over Black Friday shopping, where people say that the people are "acting like animals." What they mean is that those humans are acting violently all for selfish purposes aka like animals.
Interesting treatment of bestiality. Is this just an English language thing or does it transcend the language barrier. Anyone that is bilingual feel free to reply.
In germany there isn't really such a word I think. Sodomie slowly lost the meaning of homosexuality and means mostly sex with animals now, but in any way it is seen more or less as outdated. There are usual slurs. Tierficker (animal fucker), Tierschänder (animal defiler), ...
Some say just Zoophilie, I've seen "ein Akt der Zoophilie" (an act of zoophilia) more than once in the media. But then, they also have called zoophiles more than once "Zoophilist" which isn't a german word (it's "ein Zoophiler").
I define Bestiality as the act of intercourse between human and non-human animals. I define Zoophilia as something more encompassing basically as loving animals in a sexual way. Zoophilia does not have to mean intercourse, while Bestiality does mean intercourse.
I personally use 'zoophilia' to refer to the attraction and 'bestiality' the action. Sometimes I'll refer to people as 'anti-zoophilia' or arguments as 'against zoophilia' referring to arguments about sex with animals when they include non-sexual acts (kissing) or people who treat the attraction as the same thing as acting on it.
What?!? Some people are against kissing horses or dogs? I love and savor kissing a nice thick sweaty horse on their lips.
Some people just have a big problem in their mind.
Yes and it's hilarious. Though most of the time they're only against it when there's romantic/sexual subtext.
Don't you see how disgusting this is?
Ah so cute.
Most people are against kissing animals. It seems gross to them, and an indication that someone is likely sexually attracted to animals.
Which is a pretty safe bet... Who else but a zoophile would full-on kiss a dog unless they're attracted to dogs?
I dunno, loads of 'dog people' kiss their dogs. Maybe thats just their word for being a zoo?
Not the way zoo people kiss their dogs...
hehe good point
By that logic Austin Powers must be a zoo: he said: "I open mouthed kissed a horse once".
I am a zoosexual who practices bestiality. IMO the way people treat the animals under their care is far more important than any title.
I'd like to see the stigma of bestiality change as well. Aren't we really saying that by nature sex with animals is bad when we say bestiality is bad? That you have to have some special magic connection to make it right, one that maybe no one else can see?
Anyhow, lots of good points here on either side, things to think about when you want to categorize others. I'd like to suggest we pick on specific actions that we can see as immoral or bad. I don't think putting a dick in a vagina fits into that category unless there are other specific mitigating circumstances such as restraint, force, punishment, etc...
Here's how I break it down:
Beastiality - the act of having sex with an animal.
Zoosexuality - The sexual preference or orientation towards having animals as sexual partners.
Zoophilia - A person who has a strong emotional component in their relationship with animals.
The reason Zoophiles have chosen "Zoophilia" as the term for themselves, is that it literally translates into "Animal Love".
Zoophiles can be zoosexuals and practice beastiality. Someone who practices beastiality, does not always have an attraction to them, thus aren't Zoophiles nor Zoosexuals. And a Zoosexual may not have an emotional attraction to animals, nor may they engage in beastiality.
The reason we don't call ourselves "Beastialitists", or "The Zoosexual Community" is because those terms do not describe the community as well as "Zoophile" does.
I would strongly argue that the actress in Roxy Bottom Does a Dobie is different from myself. She may engage in beastiality, but she does so not out of attraction or emotion. Thus, I wouldn't consider her a Zoophile, or a Zoosexual.
Conversely, a Zoophile does not always engage in beastiality. There are even few people in our community that would even consider themselves asexual, or in a situation where they do not wish to have sex with their animals, but still love them in a deep manner as to identify themselves as Zoophiles.
And some people have a strong Zoosexual attraction, but no interest in the emotional components, and cannot or will not engage in beastiality for their own reasons.
These are easily understood distinctions and help us construct our conversations both with others in our community, and with the outside world in a better, more easily understood manner.
In a more practical sense, "Zoophile" is a very good PR phrase to use when talking about ourselves to people outside our community. It doesn't have as strong a negative emotional reaction as "Zoosexual" or "Beastiality" does, therefore can be used to have a constructive argument without an initial oppositional reaction from the non-zoophile.
I, for one, consider myself a Zoophile that practices beastiality, and my sexual orientation includes Zoosexuality.
That was a pretty good break-down, I would say. Good on you!
However are you sure we're not "beating around the bush" by trying to call it something less volatile? Does the term zoophilia sugar coat what we do? We want people to eventually grow to become comfortable with bestiality itself one day at least that would be the ideal. A sexual orientation is dependent upon to what you feel sexually, emotionally and romantically attracted to and with what it is that you would want to have a sexual and romantic relationship with so zoosexuality would not imply just a physical attraction.
I think that using "Beastialitists" as a self-identifier would error in the opposite direction - it's confrontational, and carries a similar emotional weight in the general public as "Sodomite". If the Gay community used the term "Sodomites" for themselves, it would have harmed the social recognition of their movement and delayed acceptance by years, if not decades.
To give you a practical example, could you see a United States Senator arguing for "Sodomite Rights"? Now how about "Beastiality Rights"?
"Gay Rights" sounds a lot better, as does "Zoophile Rights".
But I'd say it's a moot point, as the term "Zoophile" has become the title that our community has been using for a couple decades now. It's an established, recognized term that most of us prefer to self-identify under. It has worked for us for this long, I don't see any reason to rebrand ourselves with a more cumbersome, loaded phrase.
That's some very good points... This is why I like to talk here because I kind of feel confused by all my thoughts and would like input on them. So thank you! That was a great point about the Sodomite thing that really increased my understanding about this issue..
I don't think it sugar-coats it, no. I feel like there is a difference between someone who is a fetishist or 'bestialist' and a zoophile. A zoophile, imo, is someone who is sexually attracted to animals, while a bestialist would be a person who is interested in bestiality, but may not be attracted sexually to animals.
I think "zoophilia" might be worse than "zoosexuality" in terms of PR because it carries the connotation of paraphilia (which I don't feel accurately describes my attraction anyway; it's more like an orientation) and it sounds too close to pedophilia, which people already tend to associate it with.
"Zoosexual" would be a new word to most people and IMO makes it sound more like a legitimate orientation, like heterosexual or homosexual. I dunno, does this make sense?
Although, within the community I use them almost interchangeably... or often just "zoo" for short.
That's true, 1gaydog. For me, this thing is my orientation.
I agree. When I was about 14, I think, I constructed the word "zoophilia" by analogy to that and necrophilia. Being a typical teenager, I was unduly proud of myself for getting that right. Given the enormous change in gay rights in the last 20 years, if I was 14 today I might very well construct "zoosexual" from "homosexual", but it's hard to tell.
Excellent discussion
don't think i can add much to this, but feel like i should pipe in. lots of good points made about how zoophilia is a term that has been used so long it's become comfortable for most. that's the fact with the most weight, IMO. hard to get people to choose a new term over something they're used to and comfortable with.
that said, i see the appeal of zoosexual and how it fits in with hetero and homosexual, but the term just doesn't roll off the tongue for me like zoophile does.