/r/bestiality (and others like it) and animal abuse (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2015-04-12 01:27:47 by zoozooz
I'm talking about threads like this one: https://np.reddit.com/r/Bestiality/comments/320rnt/octopus_and_female_human/
There's a lot of content posted on subreddits like those that are borderline abuse or actual abuse.
But... should we do something about it? Should we just not go there and let them (publicly!) do what they do? Should we complain? Does anyone have completely different thoughts?
I'm not here to police anyone and if you used my standards I'm sure everyone would object.
To be honest, even most human porno is abusive if you read the interviews of the actresses.
I've resigned myself to not being able to save every animal, just the ones I can.
I hate seeing men raping bitches.
There are some videos floating around featuring this, but it's clear she isn't a willing participant.
I dont care for porn at all but the majority of the ones i have seen featuring men and female dogs show that the dogs are disinterested at best. I've seen vids where she is clearly struggling and the comments are praising the rapist. its crazy. in fact any negative comment got deleted.
Stuff like that is a tough pill to swallow for us non zoos.
Or even not necessarily struggling, but look like this and are generally giving every signal but biting.
(For clarity: I am well aware that body language isn't infallible and stress can be caused by stuff like a camera or weird lighting, but damn is it uncomfortable to see those signals.)
Tough for us zoos too quite frankly.
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I have no words
I even took the time to write a message to the admins of that website, but either they don't know english or they don't care...
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You see, when I was in school doing my research, I would have been 100% against you guys if the majority of the content I found was of this nature. It really makes me sick
Well, if you're looking for an accurate representation of sexuality, looking at porn websites is probably not the right approach anyway.
The handwavy explanation is that people who genuinely care about their animals are less likely to create porn anyway, and even if they want, are probably too scared for their animals to risk getting recognized and someone intervening and taking the animals away and doing who knows what with them (like putting them in a shelter where they'll be killed after a while when they're unlucky).
indeed, first "community" I found was beastforum. was promptly banned for no good reason, of course. I got most of my interviews from the fine folks at zoophilesdestiny.org
some members from that (now dead) site are actually good friends of mine in real life now
FYI BF rules explicitly forbid anythis else but mindness praise in comments.
That's how fucked up BF is.
Quite true. Seems most of the stuff out their is commercial porn, shot in far-away countries that don't enforce laws.
And suddenly, /u/AliasTheReindeerPone gained a whole new understanding of why people dislike bestiality.
This is legitimately upsetting. Coming from a person who loves animals and has nothing but respect for them, it continues to stun me that anyone could think so little of other species. Granted, it's clearly not zoophiles who are saying these things, it's just people with a kink. But come on humanity, we can do way better.
Some of these videos were made by someone who called himself "k9bitchlover" among some other nick names. I'm pretty sure he got caught and convicted of animal cruelty, so there's at least some solace. But the comments... It's beyond my understanding too what mindset these people have...
Well, amateur porn is quite popular. And more recently even "amateur" porn got monetized too much, so now "homemade" porn is getting popular.
I don't want to police everything they post, but I think it's a reasonable standard to enforce that rape videos get deleted. You don't imagine /r/gonewild etc. would tolerate it when people upload videos of how they restrained and raped someone...
Okay, I am sure that we both could name off many extreme things that should be below the "reasonable standard" but how about mare fisting? Some Zoos feel it is always abuse, some zoos see no problem with it at all. I suspect that not even everyone who regularly posts here agrees with your definition of reasonable standard.
I try to always downvote abusive posts when I come across them but as you note it is hardly a useful solution. There are way more people who don't care than do when you start counting the fetishists.
Another way to look at it, do the folks in /r/gonewild go over to /r/underaged (don't know that exists but wouldn't surprise me) where they post young looking legal models and make sure none are actually underaged?
I honestly think the only way to combat this problem is to provide a safe environment to talk about this and act as ambassadors, double checking what we think and say and do. I'm not sure creating a /r/cleanbestiality and posting pornography will add to the solution or add to the problem that we are all overly interested in pornography.
Of course, the only "legal" way to really get anything done is to get the mods of the particular subs to agree to a set of rules like "Abuse is not tolerated" and go from there... let them define their own terms of reference for what is abuse and see how that goes. Without the mods on board, all we are doing is begging for a banning.
Edit: added last paragraph
I think that there's a way to have a 'reasonable standard' without weighing in on grey-area cases or using subjective interpretations of body language. Banning acts that actively injure, kill, or will ultimately result in death would be pretty straightforward. So the gifs linked in the octopus thread wouldn't fly, while mare fisting would, unless there was reason to believe significant harm was done.
So in your judgement the guy who says that fisting act is abusive is wrong? You could see how that seems subjective to that guy who has an argument on how it is always abusive. (Some of you from ZF might remember this recent argument, btw, resulting in someone leaving the forum afaik)
I actually agree with you, btw, that we need to clean up our act, or at least the act of "sex with animals" so to exclude any acts of abuse and should hence refuse to tolerate videos and images of such acts. It's just not that easy to herd zoos when you start including a broader base. Over the last 20 years I've seen it a lot of times and used to get quite passionate about it. It seems to me a lot of the "most respected zoos" didn't see much wrong with the things I did.
I am hoping talking to the mods of various forums will help and suggest that a few of us try that.
I'm not making a judgment on whether or not fisting is wrong, I'm simply giving a suggestion about the sort of guidelines that should exclude obvious abuse while leaving more 'grey' areas open to interpretation and case-by-case review. It's not perfect, but you can't make everyone happy.
Oh no, it's spreading!
;)
Oh no. I must have been bitten. There's just one solution... http://i.imgur.com/BStxoUr.jpg
As I said: I don't want to police everything. If the mare doesn't well visibly show that she doesn't like it, let it be. But sure, it's a bit subjective and ambiguous. Especially with videos that only show a close up of the genitals, there is no telling how the situation is.
Mods would have to be the ones offering reasonable judgement from their perspective.
Reddit does have a report button
Contact the moderators of the board, perhaps and try to convince them to set up some rules? Definitely downvote them and upvote anybody calling out that behavior in the thread.
Also potentially set up your own sub with rules.
I'd be all for a different porn sub that had stricter rules.
I'd be careful of brigading, that goes against reddit-wide rules and causes subs to be shut down.
That sounds like work. Eww.
But seriously, I've thought about running my own anonymous porn site where I can simply delete everything with unwilling animals so that there would be at least one website where you could fap in peace and without sifting through dozens or hundreds of abusive or just plain bad videos to find one you like. But that sounds like work... A subreddit is more realistic.
And contacting the moderators... Hm... I don't know. I mean, right now they don't care much, do they?
It could be worth a shot? I'm not really 100% sure how Reddit moderation works, but it could be possible they're not aware?
As far as I've seen, 8chan /zoo is the go-to source of consensual bestiality videos, though the last few months have been dubious, admittedly. I can only expect it to get worse since the deletion of 7chan /be as well, which is a shame.
Of course, there's content of questionable morality to sift through (as is the case with all chan boards, regardless of content), but the community is compassionate for the most part. The images and videos are mostly amateur, which removes the commercial element.
As for what we can do about abusive content... nothing. We can downvote what we perceive to be abusive, not post it ourselves, and support communities that exclude such content, like this one. Perhaps it would be a good idea to set up a consensual bestiality subreddit, although differences in definitions of what constitutes abuse make it difficult to reach a consensus.
I'd say it's more than dubious. Just a quick scroll has a person wanting to have sex with a restrained lion, sex with birds, someone suggesting homosexuality be outlawed, and a guy using a very large dildo on a dog.
Just taken a peak, what was wrong with this post?
Well my initial response was that it looked both dirty and too big for the dog. I think that the size may have been an angle thing. I did a little follow-up research and found canine vaginas are relatively long, so the length should be fine.
Reviewing the attached videos in the post, the first looks pretty decent! The bitch is flagging and as far as you can see not being held or restrained, and the person does it all slow.
The second video though looks risky and uncomfortable, especially considering that model of dildo is inflatable. Pulling out a knot is recommended against for a lot of reasons.
I can't view the videos so can't comment on them. The pictures make it seem consensual though, dog just seems to be chilling.
Yeah, like I said, I think it's the angle? It makes it look like the thing would reach her ribcage. That model is probably a medium David werewolf, so around 7 inches. Canine vaginas are proportionally long (small dogs are around 4in, large closer to a foot), so that should be within a safe range?
I'm nowhere near an expert but i think its just a case of bitches coming in all shapes and sizes. I remember seeing a video a long way back of a beagle(?) taking the best part of the length of a double ended dildo, and she was up on all fours, took it like a champ.
I don't really get worried about the length used so long as dog is unrestrained and its not used forcibly. Everyones seen the sizes of some of the dog dicks they get stuffed with so a gentle insertion of a dildo is peanuts in comparison to that.
At the end of the day theres no hard and fast rule, what one bitch can handle may be to big for another. As long as dog is able to decide when they've had enough I'm ok with it.
The discussions tend to be peculiar (it is a imageboard, after all) but the images/videos are better than many places.
Took a look, scrolled down and saw a pic of a girl holding a severed dog's head. :/ sigh Why do people have to be so awful?
I didn't see that, fuck. ¡¡
Someone said it was fake and someone is just holding the dogs body high out of view.
I hope this is true because you can still see life in the dogs eyes
Well, all replies so far are negative to angry, except for one who only posted the link to the alleged story:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/werewolf-wolfie-blackheart-severed-lost-dogs-head-boiled-it-put-photo-on-web/
its source is dead, but still archived:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100130161729/http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Self-described_wolf_woman_severed_lost_dogs_head.html?
Not sure what to think about it, other than it not belonging on a porn board.
Usually that shit gets deleted pretty quickly...
I wouldn't be surprised if the dude who posted it was a shitposter from some other part of 8chan.
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I'll keep my opinion simple: No I don't like it. I think there's better ways to introduce people to zoophilia without people first being exposed to sexual abuse of animals. Personally, I think more should be done, but not necessarily in the sense of targeting bestiality directly. More like, continuing to shed light on the word zoophilia and what it really means.
[Side Note: Porn is not, never has been, and never will be a good introductory into anything. That, coming from a person who discovered major parts of their sexuality through porn; unfortunately it's just so unrealistic in all situations and abusive in many others. (Research your porn industries outside of the bad reviews from victimized sex workers people, it's like everything else; there's good and bad.) The industry isn't bad; sex sells and a lot of people benefit from it. Yes, there's a lot of really fucked up shit in it. That gets more light than abuse of women in the military, really. Let's pick and choose our fights a little more appropriately in the discussion of zoophilia, yeah? We're talking about bestiality, not the actual porn industry.]