I have a confession to make (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2015-04-19 18:54:54 by ursusem
I am a zoosexual (I've never had sex with an animal before though) but I will say that I am not entirely convinced that the practice of humans having sex with animals is not abusive to the animals. .....I don't feel that the arguments many zoos have made seem very convincing. It is disheartening for me.
That's OK. At least you have an open mind and are asking the right questions. I myself am convinced that zoosexual relationships can be practiced non-abusively, but it's not a case that is ready to be made to the general public yet. The subject simply hasn't been studied enough, and most of my evidence for that acceptability relies on biological generalizations and anecdotes/videos from other zoos, which may not be all that representative of the experience of animals as a whole.
In my mind, the important thing isn't so much what you believe, but why you believe it and what (if anything) could change your mind. As an example of this, I was recently having an argument with an acquaintance about whether it could be right, and her whole opinion was based on a desire to protect the animals from harm. Without more evidence that sex with animals is generally not harmful to them, there's no way to shift her position on the subject. But given the state of the evidence she has seen to this point, her position is rational, even though I disagree with it. So long as people are willing to listen to evidence and argument, they can believe anything they like.
Like conventional sex, it may or my not be abusive, it depends on the circumstances. Some female animals such as bitches or mares might even initiate sex. In such a case I would find it hard pressed to call it abusive.
What kind of (non-sexual) experience do you have with your animal of choice? Many times when I run into people who think that animals lack the ability to consent, they do not have very much hands-on experience with animals.
Non-human animals actually have many different ways they can express consent toward intimacy with humans. Even when the animals are not the ones initiating the contact, they can still let you know if they are in the mood to play around or not. It's all about getting to know the animals as individuals. That means taking the time to learn their body language, behavior, and communication methods. If you are committed enough to treat an animal as your partner and equal, you will never do anything to cause hem harm or discomfort. While yes, there are people who abuse animals and exploit them for their own personal gains, most zoophiles/zoosexuals do not fall under this category.
I am primarily an equine zoo myself, and I care about my animal’s well-being and pleasure far more than my own. Because of this I have no problem postponing my own pleasure in order to make my animal partner more comfortable. My mares will actively seek me out when they desire having their “itch” “scratched” both in heat and out of heat (though things can get REALLY crazy when they are in heat). My mares will solicit me for sex in the EXACT same manner as they would a stallion of their own species. Even even instances where I am the one initiating things, the animal has a clear choice of whether or not to continue with the act.
My animals are never restrained, and they are completely free to leave at any time during intimate sessions. If they are fine with playtime but not really in the mood they will just stand there happily munching hay while I do my thing. If they are not in the mood they will walk away. If they are really hot to trot, they will flirt and demand attention, and more often than not they will actually become an active participant in the act. If they are over-stimulated, or have had enough then they are free to leave. I have no interest in playing around with an animal that is not interested in playing around as well. It is actually a huge turn off to see an animal forced into a sexual situation.
There are some shitty people on this planet who are legitimate animals abusers. I like to think that zoophiles and zoosexual stake their animals care and well being to the next level. We take far better care of our animal partners than most mundane animal people do. Hell, even in our current society it is perfectly acceptable to use torture devices on horses such as whips, spurs, and sharp metal bits. All of these devices are used by people who do not understand how to have a relationship with their horse. They would rather get cooperation through pain compliance than to spend the time and energy to develop a working relationship with their animal. These socially acceptable torture devices can cause the equines to experience immense amounts of pain and physical injury if used improperly. Unfortunately the use of these implements to force the animal into bending to it’s owners will are all perfectly acceptable in the horse world and by society as a whole. This is just one example of the multitude of socially acceptable ways in which we humans exploit animals for our own selfish needs and desires.
The zoophiles/zoosexuals I know and consider to be friends, only care about giving their animal partners the best lives they can possibly live. Yet simply because we love our animals more than what is considered normal by our society we are demonized and hunted. It is really sad to see people having their lives destroyed simply because they share intimacy with an animal, especially when there is no harm done to the animal. Zoophiles/zoosexuals are unfairly lumped in with legitimate animal abusers simply because of the "yuck factor" that drives people to hate something they don’t understand or they themselves find to be yucky.
I'm glad. An abundance of caution and skepticism is necessary, and it's easier to hear criticism from someone who is one of us than someone outside.
I've got this sense from you before. Not sure what arguments you are worried about, feel free to let us know.
It's disheartening to be judged abusive just because you don't understand.
I don't know what animals actually think about things therefore I think it would be wrong for me to impose an odd thing onto them like interspecies sex...
I want to KNOW what they think- I don't want to guess about what they think based on their body language alone.
Unfortunately for anyone interest in animals, body language is how they communicate their needs and desires. How is inter-species sex any different than all the other unnatural things we humans do to animals on a daily basis? I would much rather see an animal go to a loving home with a bit of harmless intimacy, than see them go to some asshat who is going to use and exploit the animal for their own gains. People in general treat animals like crap. It is just fine for some dressage hag to ruin a horse, and use pain compliance to get the animal to bend to their will, so long as it is done in the name of sport. A zoophile is condemned simply for loving an animal more than what is deemed normal. Society is full of screwed up logic like that.
About body language: Humans are all-powerful and we can do all things we can go to the moon and back etc Ain't no reason why we can't learn to communicate better with animals. We've got to innovate!
The reason why inter-species sex is different is because sex is so personal. Any other weird thing we do to them they can more or less put up with but they at least still have that boundary and ability to keep themselves to themselves. Please don't be cross with me for being concerned about the animals. I am a zoo too. My desire is not more important than their desire, though.
Apologies if I am coming across as being annoyed because I am anything but. :-P Humans are more than capable of understanding animal behavior and language. It just takes many years to get good at it, and most people do not have the patience to commit themselves to learning it. Animals don't have social hang ups like humans do. They have no problem blatantly asking for something they desire. Animals also don't view sex as something to be hidden away, or taboo. If they are in the mood they will let you know.
You were not coming across as annoyed to me I am just worried that somebody might be annoyed and even maybe you might be.
How long have you been learning the language of animals? I've never really had a lot of time with school and all.
And as far as animals not viewing sex as something to hide.. we infer that from the fact that they don't wear clothes, right?
Another concern I have is that sex is rather important to me.. Much like how it is with "normal" human-to-human relationships, if you were looking to have a romantic relationship with a human being and this human were telling you that he/she never wants to have sex, would you stay in the relationship? There are some traits that our lovers need to have and if they don't adhere to that it is a deal-breaker for the relationship. I feel like I'd like to know up front whether the animal I may be taking an interest in is open to sex with me or is not open before I would begin to become involved with that animal.
I also don't like this incest thing that you find in bestiality where you often obtain an animal as a baby, raise him and care for him and then do incest when he comes of age??! That is so cray.
Trust me. We need better communication across species. I want to treat them as equal to me just like any human lover would be.
Not from that; from them doing it right in front of everyone else instead of sneaking off somewhere private.
Wolves actually have a tendency to break away from the rest of the pack to do it with their preferred partner
Not for the alpha wolves. They're the designated breeding pair and it certainly just happens in front of the other pack members. However that doesn't stop the non-alpha wolves from having a desire to mate, even with a member of a different pack. That however has to be done in secret because they risk being kicked out of their pack if caught (hey, do I see a similarity here with humanity?). It's rare of this to happen but hey, that's what you see on tv.
Just looking at zoo animals. They don't seem to be shy at all to be mating in front of a big group of people...
I suspect different species have different preferences, and not all members of each species share the same preference.
Valid concern. I like to liken owning a dog to getting married. If you are zoo and that is your prefered partner, would you marry someone you met at petsmart for a few hours at most in the hopes that the relationship works out?
I often ask "how does a zoo date?" and I have no good solutions to that.
Think of it this way.... are you abusing your dog who is jumping up and down and waiting for you to throw the ball or is that enthusiastic participation?
Why are you okay with interpreting how he feels about throwing the ball and not something else he may be enthusiastic about?
Trust me, when in the mood, my mare is an enthusiastic participant in anything we do, when not in the mood she gets snuggles and grooming and whatever else seems pleasant at the time.
If one is willing to eat the flesh of an animal that has been killed for food, isn't sex a less violent alternative? I don't have sex with animals and never have, but I find this subject a moral conundrum.
Hey, don't worry, I've been there myself! I had a hard time really coming to terms with accepting bestiality as something that wasn't always abusive. Personally what I think was a turning point for me was to look at sex as just another action disconnected from our social conventions and emotional responses to it.
I think criticism and skepticism of our views towards sex with animals is healthy when it comes from an honest place and not a knee-jerk reaction. Opinions and beliefs should always be open to evaluation and change.
Over all my feeling is that you are feeling the social convention that sex is somehow naughty, bad, or otherwise unacceptable. It gets transferred to our thoughts and ideas in very unusual ways and can manifest itself in perversion or guilt or any number of things.
People know when they are abusing animals, and might come here and try to justify it but they do. If you ever take the time to get close to an animal and offer or initiate sex you will know whether or not they are consenting.
also while in humans "no consent" = "Abuse" I do not think that the link between animals, consent, and abuse/harm has in any way been proven or even made meaningful in any way. I know my lovers enjoy and participate willingly without any doubt in my mind.