repeat it in a circle jerk of self internet references and then make laws based upon said circlejerk. Even when the originator says they'd lie to make things happen.
zoozooz 5 points on 2015-04-22 11:47:32
A 2011 Justice Ministry report surveyed veterinarians and found that 17 percent of them suspected that a human had had sex with an animal they treated.
Does anyone know what the report actually says? Many newspapers cite the report, but none give the actual source.
Yearningmice 5 points on 2015-04-22 14:51:54
Notice how convenient they didn't mention if the animal was being treated for sex related problems.... just that the vet suspected the animal had been sexed.... I'll do some googling but I doubt we'll find much without someone to search in the original language.
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 2 points on 2015-04-22 14:58:06
I seriously doubt that a vet could tell if a human had sex with a broodmare vs a stallion.
JonasCliverMightyenas lol 1 point on 2015-04-25 13:46:53
Sperm cell form varies greatly among the vertebrates.
So yes, a vet could.
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 1 point on 2015-04-25 13:49:23
But I'm saying in general at a regular vet annual checkup, days or weeks after the sex.
JonasCliverMightyenas lol 1 point on 2015-04-25 14:34:14
Hm. Ok.
itallstinks 8 points on 2015-04-22 17:21:49
I don't want to lash out at anyone, as this is hardly the time. Europe just became a little less free based on lies, distortion, misconceptions, and the mechanisms of opinionated mobs and moral crowds.
However, at the very beginning of this episode we Germans asked all the European zoos to come and help us fight this string of discriminations. We had the best chance in Germany, where it began, a country where perhaps the zoos could not make a registered club all as zoos, but where nobody can do anything at all if they chose to freely associate and be politically active. The persecution-of-a-minority card was gigantic for us in Germany.
But very little support came. Yes a bit. But for calling on all of Europe, the turnout was more than lackluster. And we predicted this would happen: The first country would be a precedent, the anti's litmus test if their campaign of calling upon fictional animal bordellos in country X and shaming people one by one by their nationality (do you want to be the last? quick, get out of the door as long as Denmark is still so filthy). We told you if Germany falls, then that's that. The laws may still be made locally, but we for sure entered a time where political/activist campaigns are encompassing whole continents, if not cultural spheres. The response by those on the opposing side must be similar organized and widespread.
While I know that many have completely given up, and while I know that the standard response of at least half to 90% of all people would be to just lay low and hide, let this be a lesson: To be in the right, and to get your right requires to do something. Any fucking thing at all besides us all lamenting on our webpages.
It is never to late to assume this could not be reversed. My mother saw in her lifetime discrimination against women when with her first bank account her father had to sign instead of her - going to her ending up as a successful vice-CEO of a company she owned.
I know many of you zoos suffer from depression. This is caused by our disconnect to society and the stress we live in (e.g. to not get caught all the time). But we won't even get that the standard governmental response would be to give us training in coping and suppression strategies (as has been proven to work great with) IF WE DO NOT GO AND SMACK IN THEIR FACES THAT THIS HAS TO BE A THING if nothing else. The punishments in some of the laws are ridiculous - if none of us ever musters to go all the way to the constitutional courts with his case but we all let ourselves be crushed asap, then that will also not go away. So mark this down: Be active, do something. At the very least have an awesome, private life of your own, and be a supportive, helpful, and therefore welcome member of your local community. If nothing else - you will have a good life. And in the unlikely case of being busted it is at least hard to shame that one guy who always gave everyone a helping hand.
Just don't give up
Yearningmice 2 points on 2015-04-22 17:36:01
Hey, thank you for your efforts.
I think this is all fair comment. It does make me feel I am not doing enough.
We each have our own risks to weight. A happy life and a life of activism are not something that goes together when you are part of a sexual minority, not until after the attitudes start to change.
Some of us have been doing more than nothing, but not much more in our personal lives. I cannot envision anything good coming from my being out in my personal life to more than I already am.
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 1 point on 2015-04-22 18:06:37
This is the thing, these laws dont affect us so long as you keep this part of you private.
I'll think about becoming a bit more active IRL when the time is right both personally and socially. I'm not going to give up my quality of life for the (currently) slim chance to make it better for everyone else just yet. maybe I'll do a Brenner when I get to that age and have nothing much to loose, but for the time being the risk outweighs the reward.
itallstinks 2 points on 2015-04-22 18:34:32
I didn't say you have to come hold a sign or parade.
If you feel you can do nothing else, just be the greatest person as a zoo you can be.
Also: Going to constitutional court in Germany to at least overturn it there, or at least get the punishment of 50,000 EUR reduced (ANYTHING), would cost 50,000 EURs. Sure, that is a lot. But it would be more than enough if every zoo chipped in just 1 EUR. I mean come on, that's one pack of chewing gum you are missing now. At the time it mattered in Germany, one pack of chewing gum money from every zoo in Europe would have been a formidable war-chest that might have done something.
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 2 points on 2015-04-22 18:51:50
If you feel you can do nothing else, just be the greatest person as a zoo you can be.
I think thats a good point. Hopefully you wont ever get found out, but if you do It'll do a whole lot of good against smashing the preconceptions most people have of us. At least it'll get your closest friends and relatives to have second thoughts about their beliefs.
How long ago was the thing in germany? Im only a recent zoo so I think it was before my time. Besides, I feel like the 'zoo community' will always ebb and flow. we are currently going through a time where there is barely any zoo community apart from spaces like this, but as this generation grows up we might start collectively pushing the boat out little by little. I especially think that with the increased exposure we have with the internet, people wont be as shocked about us coming out due to them maybe having prior experience of talking with or viewing us online.
itallstinks 2 points on 2015-04-22 20:33:19
about 2 years or so. it went like dominoes from there.
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 1 point on 2015-04-23 01:27:21
I only just missed it in that case. thats unfortunate.
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 1 point on 2015-04-22 23:46:39
Somone needs to start up a bitcoin account for donations to ensure privacy. Right now I can't think on top of my head, of any zoophile donation/crowdfunded accounts specifically set up as a legal fund.
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 2 points on 2015-04-22 18:36:31
Assuming these parts of our lives can be kept private. Some of the antis were really pleased with the Snowden revelations.
zoozooz 3 points on 2015-04-22 18:34:27
And many are probably paranoid about authorities learning their identity so they get put on some list. I know I am.
I know the plan in germany is to go to the constitutional court. But it's the same problem I see with back then when zoos "were called to come and help". You don't really reach many people, we don't really see much of the effort you put in. I don't know what the solution is, but we need a better and bigger communication platform. The website of the zeta verein is a good start and zoophiles-infoportal.org but it's still a small platform controlled by few people. Something collaborative like a wiki with polished design and a good url... The hard part is of course making trustworthy security to protect the identity of its users. I mean, we have all this info, but it is scattered over many, many separate blog entries and info pages. We should have one well presented article that lists all the important reasons to oppose a ban with all the important reasons condensed and links to important people like http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/ehemaliger-verfassungsrichter-hassemer-zum-zoophilie-verbot-nicht-alles-widerliche-verdient-staatliche-strafe-1.1548925 or http://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/sodomie-zoophilie-strafrechtler-zum-verbot-von-sex-mit-tieren/
And to germany's constitutional court... Would I be right to kinda hope we fail there, so we can move on to the European Court of Human Rights (you can only go there if all national courts didn't help you, right)? Winning there would be awesome for zoos in all of europe, right?
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 3 points on 2015-04-22 23:54:08
And have the sites professionally translated into English. Their are lots of good German Zoo websites I would like to visit but don't because they are in German, and Google Translate does not cut it.
kinggourd123 -1 points on 2015-04-28 23:53:13
You never had a chance in Germany and not everyone approves of the ruckus you're making. No one needs to risk themselves to fight superficial laws that affect only the most foolish. Take your "efforts" and do something better with your life.
Yearningmice 3 points on 2015-04-23 00:40:21
All great suggestions which require cash that can't be frozen. I guess it is time to get that membership in ZETA. Are there plans for members to be able to review budgets and so forth?
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 1 point on 2015-04-23 08:42:36
I was just about to check if they accepted Bitcoin, but the website isn't responding... :/
/r/zoophilia archive
Does anyone know what the report actually says? Many newspapers cite the report, but none give the actual source.
Notice how convenient they didn't mention if the animal was being treated for sex related problems.... just that the vet suspected the animal had been sexed.... I'll do some googling but I doubt we'll find much without someone to search in the original language.
I seriously doubt that a vet could tell if a human had sex with a broodmare vs a stallion.
Sperm cell form varies greatly among the vertebrates.
So yes, a vet could.
But I'm saying in general at a regular vet annual checkup, days or weeks after the sex.
Hm. Ok.
I don't want to lash out at anyone, as this is hardly the time. Europe just became a little less free based on lies, distortion, misconceptions, and the mechanisms of opinionated mobs and moral crowds.
However, at the very beginning of this episode we Germans asked all the European zoos to come and help us fight this string of discriminations. We had the best chance in Germany, where it began, a country where perhaps the zoos could not make a registered club all as zoos, but where nobody can do anything at all if they chose to freely associate and be politically active. The persecution-of-a-minority card was gigantic for us in Germany.
But very little support came. Yes a bit. But for calling on all of Europe, the turnout was more than lackluster. And we predicted this would happen: The first country would be a precedent, the anti's litmus test if their campaign of calling upon fictional animal bordellos in country X and shaming people one by one by their nationality (do you want to be the last? quick, get out of the door as long as Denmark is still so filthy). We told you if Germany falls, then that's that. The laws may still be made locally, but we for sure entered a time where political/activist campaigns are encompassing whole continents, if not cultural spheres. The response by those on the opposing side must be similar organized and widespread.
While I know that many have completely given up, and while I know that the standard response of at least half to 90% of all people would be to just lay low and hide, let this be a lesson: To be in the right, and to get your right requires to do something. Any fucking thing at all besides us all lamenting on our webpages.
It is never to late to assume this could not be reversed. My mother saw in her lifetime discrimination against women when with her first bank account her father had to sign instead of her - going to her ending up as a successful vice-CEO of a company she owned.
I know many of you zoos suffer from depression. This is caused by our disconnect to society and the stress we live in (e.g. to not get caught all the time). But we won't even get that the standard governmental response would be to give us training in coping and suppression strategies (as has been proven to work great with) IF WE DO NOT GO AND SMACK IN THEIR FACES THAT THIS HAS TO BE A THING if nothing else. The punishments in some of the laws are ridiculous - if none of us ever musters to go all the way to the constitutional courts with his case but we all let ourselves be crushed asap, then that will also not go away. So mark this down: Be active, do something. At the very least have an awesome, private life of your own, and be a supportive, helpful, and therefore welcome member of your local community. If nothing else - you will have a good life. And in the unlikely case of being busted it is at least hard to shame that one guy who always gave everyone a helping hand.
Just don't give up
Hey, thank you for your efforts.
I think this is all fair comment. It does make me feel I am not doing enough.
We each have our own risks to weight. A happy life and a life of activism are not something that goes together when you are part of a sexual minority, not until after the attitudes start to change.
Some of us have been doing more than nothing, but not much more in our personal lives. I cannot envision anything good coming from my being out in my personal life to more than I already am.
This is the thing, these laws dont affect us so long as you keep this part of you private.
I'll think about becoming a bit more active IRL when the time is right both personally and socially. I'm not going to give up my quality of life for the (currently) slim chance to make it better for everyone else just yet. maybe I'll do a Brenner when I get to that age and have nothing much to loose, but for the time being the risk outweighs the reward.
I didn't say you have to come hold a sign or parade.
If you feel you can do nothing else, just be the greatest person as a zoo you can be.
Also: Going to constitutional court in Germany to at least overturn it there, or at least get the punishment of 50,000 EUR reduced (ANYTHING), would cost 50,000 EURs. Sure, that is a lot. But it would be more than enough if every zoo chipped in just 1 EUR. I mean come on, that's one pack of chewing gum you are missing now. At the time it mattered in Germany, one pack of chewing gum money from every zoo in Europe would have been a formidable war-chest that might have done something.
I think thats a good point. Hopefully you wont ever get found out, but if you do It'll do a whole lot of good against smashing the preconceptions most people have of us. At least it'll get your closest friends and relatives to have second thoughts about their beliefs.
How long ago was the thing in germany? Im only a recent zoo so I think it was before my time. Besides, I feel like the 'zoo community' will always ebb and flow. we are currently going through a time where there is barely any zoo community apart from spaces like this, but as this generation grows up we might start collectively pushing the boat out little by little. I especially think that with the increased exposure we have with the internet, people wont be as shocked about us coming out due to them maybe having prior experience of talking with or viewing us online.
about 2 years or so. it went like dominoes from there.
I only just missed it in that case. thats unfortunate.
Somone needs to start up a bitcoin account for donations to ensure privacy. Right now I can't think on top of my head, of any zoophile donation/crowdfunded accounts specifically set up as a legal fund.
Assuming these parts of our lives can be kept private. Some of the antis were really pleased with the Snowden revelations.
And many are probably paranoid about authorities learning their identity so they get put on some list. I know I am.
I know the plan in germany is to go to the constitutional court. But it's the same problem I see with back then when zoos "were called to come and help". You don't really reach many people, we don't really see much of the effort you put in. I don't know what the solution is, but we need a better and bigger communication platform. The website of the zeta verein is a good start and zoophiles-infoportal.org but it's still a small platform controlled by few people. Something collaborative like a wiki with polished design and a good url... The hard part is of course making trustworthy security to protect the identity of its users. I mean, we have all this info, but it is scattered over many, many separate blog entries and info pages. We should have one well presented article that lists all the important reasons to oppose a ban with all the important reasons condensed and links to important people like http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/ehemaliger-verfassungsrichter-hassemer-zum-zoophilie-verbot-nicht-alles-widerliche-verdient-staatliche-strafe-1.1548925 or http://www.lto.de/recht/hintergruende/h/sodomie-zoophilie-strafrechtler-zum-verbot-von-sex-mit-tieren/
And to germany's constitutional court... Would I be right to kinda hope we fail there, so we can move on to the European Court of Human Rights (you can only go there if all national courts didn't help you, right)? Winning there would be awesome for zoos in all of europe, right?
And have the sites professionally translated into English. Their are lots of good German Zoo websites I would like to visit but don't because they are in German, and Google Translate does not cut it.
You never had a chance in Germany and not everyone approves of the ruckus you're making. No one needs to risk themselves to fight superficial laws that affect only the most foolish. Take your "efforts" and do something better with your life.
All great suggestions which require cash that can't be frozen. I guess it is time to get that membership in ZETA. Are there plans for members to be able to review budgets and so forth?
I was just about to check if they accepted Bitcoin, but the website isn't responding... :/
[deleted]