Animal Conformation and Attractiveness? (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2015-04-23 07:20:31 by zootrashcan doggy doodle dandy
How much does an animal's conformation have to do with how physically attractive they are? Like judging just by pictures/videos of animals,
Like for me I tend to find well built animals more attractive. I like straighter backs, good pasterns, hare feet, and long strong legs. Most of my major 'turn-offs' tend to be things like stenoic nares, extreme brachycephalic heads, ectropion, entropion, weak pasterns, splay feet, roached backs, and overly short legs. Imo it's less that I find the dogs themselves unattractive, it's that I find their intentional breeding to be off-putting enough to turn me off a dog.
Obviously, this is talking mostly superficial and not taking personality into account.
Personally, I'm still not sure which things about dogs turn me on. It's weird but the only commonality I've seen in dogs I find sexy is that they are all on the larger side, and happy.
For people in general, there has been research showing that "average" is considered more beautiful, and I'd expect that to apply to us too. We could test that with a Francis Galton style composite photograph?
That's a little more difficult with dogs, given the huge variety of body shapes and features. I don't know how good a composite between a pug and a Belgian Malinois would look, for example.
But on the whole, my preferences for dogs from a physical perspective are monochromatic (all black, all white, etc.), floppy ears, slightly stockier build (not obese, just with some meat on the bones), and longish muzzle. Though a good personality (pleasant, warm, and not hyperactive) is more important than any of that.
An 'average' dog would probably look like pariah dogs. After a few generations of uncontrolled feral breeding, dogs tend to end up looking similar: http://scind.org/content_images/full/1387382088Dog.jpg http://www.junglecraft.com.my/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/dogs_playing.jpg https://podifee.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/900_img_8834.jpg http://www.k9dna.org/sites/default/files/styles/300x200/public/images/village-dogs/village_dog_small.jpg?itok=lB-Ai53v http://sloughi.tripod.com/preserving/redtunisianvillagedogLR.jpg
As for what a pug/mal would look like... pug/shepherd mixes are pretty cute, actually! They tend to look like finer-boned bully type dogs with broad muzzles and floppy ears: http://media.jrn.com/images/cni-bkeg_humanesociety1_0328_ct.jpg http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images20/ShugGermanShepherdPugHybridFinnian7months4.JPG https://s3.amazonaws.com/pet-uploads.adoptapet.com/0/2/7/81392736.jpg
I stand corrected by this wave of cuteness. Awesome.
Those pups are super cute!! I've never seen that mix before. Looks nothing like a bully type though, imo, except maybe the middle guy's ears a little bit. I think a lot of pug/beagle mixes turn out cute too, but they're kinda becoming a fad designer dog mix these days. But just look at this guy!! Love that curly tail when it's not so tight and exaggerated like it is on most purebred pugs.
Oh wow, he's so happy. Adorable! :)
Great to see those. Certainly appreciate the look of the first one. I can totally imagine him on top of me :)
Those dogs belong on /r/animalromance. Except maybe the bitey romp.
It might apply to a certain degree. An 'average' looking dog tends to end up pretty well balanced in build. It's when you get more extreme and exaggerated, and consequentially further from 'average' that traits like 'no nostrils' start showing up.
Poor breeding is always a turn off. I blame the judges who let people win with some stupidly over exaggerated body trait. The result of some guy 50-100 years ago writing down "Back should be slightly sloped" and now anything less than a 35 degree angle doesn't win.
Same for horses. I love arabs, for example, but have not seen a single good looking winning show arab since the 80s.
Out of curiosity do you like Straight Egyptians, or do you despise them?
There seems to be a new movement to go back to what the Egyptians were, I'm all for that. So depends on what you mean by straight Egyptians. If you look at the photos from 80 years ago out of the Egyptian studs then that is pretty much the definition of beauty.
But we can both agree that Arabs are drop dead sexy?
Mine certainly is now that I took the shedding blade to her... They get cute and fuzzy in northern winters.
General structural soundness (strong back and pasterns, balanced front and rear angulation, and so on), yes, that definitely affects it. A well-built dog is much more attractive to me.
But conformation as in "breed standard," not so much... I find many popular show dogs to be too exaggerated for my tastes. I like moderation. My major turn-offs are the same as the ones you listed.
Yeah, I don't care too much for 'show standard' type conformation as much as general functionality conformation.
Exactly. I think when I see a dog with a major conformation/health fault who would otherwise be attractive, I just end up focusing on the fact that people intentionally breed for/don't try to eliminate faults that are detrimental to the dog. I'm very adamant about breeding for physical soundness and I just cannot find a dog with poor conformation attractive; I wouldn't want one just as a 'normal' pet either. I want my animals to be in the best health they can possibly be so they can live long healthy lives.
Personally Boxers are very high up on the list of breeds I find attractive. Their body type is ideal. But if their face is too brachy or their jowls are really droopy, I don't find them attractive at all, or even very aesthetically pleasing in a non-sexual way. A boxer like this guy, even though his body looks nice, I just can't find attractive because of his brachy face and upturned muzzle. Ones like this or even a more moderate "in between" one like this I can get behind.
Same with American Bulldogs, the number one dog breed I find most attractive. There are two "types" of AmBulldog, Johnson type and Scott type. Johnsons tend to be very wide and stocky, usually with bad feet and elbows, and have really squished faces. Almost English Bulldog level. Scott types are more moderate, athletic, and have long muzzles, so I much prefer those. "Hybrid type," or mixes of the two types, are pretty popular as well, and usually those guys seem to turn out okay.
I don't know as much about horse conformation, but I've seen some horses that look like they'd be in pain just from standing (quarter horses especially) and that's definitely not something I can get behind either. I'm also not really a fan of the Arabians who look like someone scooped a big part of their skull out. (I've also heard that drastic skull shape can cause tooth problems.)
EDIT: Gotta add I agree with what 1gaydog said, if we're talking "conformation" as in physical soundness, yes. If we're talking "conformation" as in "adheres exactly to breed standard," not exactly. Lots of show standards do call for exaggerated traits that reduce physical soundness (pugs, english bulldogs, bassets, gsds with weak hips/legs, etc etc)
Scott American bulldogs are so, so pretty! I really don't get the appeal of severely brachy dogs, and why that would be preferable to a functional nose.
And yeah, apparently the scoopy-faced arabs also have breathing problems? Why subject an animal to that stuff if you can avoid it?
Lots of people apparently think the Johnsons look "tougher," and look for a "tougher" looking dog as a guard dog. At least I saw that on a few forums I poked around on. Those were average folks, not people really super involved with the breed. Not sure how the "tough dog look" ended up being as wide as a semi truck with a face so squished he can barely breathe. That's why so many American Bullies have poor conformation too, it's all about the "tough guy badass" look. Personally if I was going to break into a place, I'd probably pick the guy who has the dog who waddles when he runs and can't run 40 feet without wheezing! He'd be easy to get away from. Not very tough or intimidating if you ask me.
Not a "tough guy" look obviously but, I'd really like a Boston Terrier someday. And as much as I dislike it, I'm probably going to have to go through a "backyard" breeder to get one. All the show breeders' dogs have either no nostrils, no muzzle, bug eyes or all of the above. There hardly seems to be any compromise at all within that breed, except for non-show breeders who breed off standard. It also makes me sad that snoring, wheezing, and "reverse sneezing" in English Bulldogs, Pugs, Bostons, Frenchies, etc is an acceptable characteristic of the breed and seen as "cute" by a lot of folks, when it's literally because their soft palate is shoved down into their throat because there isn't enough room in the mouth and they can't get enough air.
I haven't been able to find much info on breathing problems in arabs, maybe I'm not looking in the right places or I'm just getting bad info. Apparently (maybe take this with a grain of salt, as it came from somebody involved in the arab breed) horses' breathing systems in their skull are somewhat different than dogs, so it doesn't affect an arabian's breathing the same way it would, say, a dog with a similar skull shape. Not sure how true that is. I do know teeth problems can come up because the teeth become crowded, and there isn't enough room in the skull to properly support the molars and roots of the teeth.
I've spent most of the day sad about people not getting "informed consent". Now I'm back to being angry about it not being seen as important for breeding purposes.
I suppose that's an improvement...
Seems like it's all for aesthetics. For example, I've heard from owners of pugs that they like the extremely flat face because it makes the dogs look more human-like or baby-like. They think it's cute, and apparently that's more important than the dog's ability to breathe properly...
I don't think it's cute. I like dogs that look like dogs, and can live a long healthy life.
Thankfully there are breeders out there that value health and functionality. Check out these "retro pugs": http://fuglydog.tumblr.com/post/67601802947/
This!!!
As per usual I agree with what you said, haha. Took the words right out of my mouth.
And that last boxer and the scott type ambulldog are so handsome wow