I'll just be honest with you all (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2015-06-09 23:23:27 by ursusem

Right now I REALLY am curious about why people find sex between humans and non-human animals to be disgusting/gross. I have no idea where to go to get more of an in dept explanation as to why people feel this way. I understand that bestiality is taboo. I personally feel that it shouldn't be taboo. I want it to stop being a taboo. I have the sneaking suspicion that most people don't like bestiality mainly because of what it may have to say about human identity. I don't find bestiality to be gross. What's gross about it? Isn't all sex gross? Why should that be a good reason to object to it? Sex may be gross but we all still love it and want it (unless if you're asexual). So what is it about bestiality that makes it especially gross? My fear is that people find it gross because they really have certain feelings of hatred subconsciously toward non-human animals!!! <:O That, I find to be EXTREMELY DISTURBING. LONG LIVE BESTIALITY!!! Bitch.

I guess there could be some other reasons that I could think of.. But no one from the anti- camp has articulated on it.

I even recall someone on the Internet saying once that if they ever had to drink blood, they would prefer to drink human blood rather than animal blood because human blood would not be as gross but they did not elaborate on why. What gives??

Does anyone else smell a weird prejudice going on???

Frostfedora Cute huskies. :3 4 points on 2015-06-09 23:35:54

Animals are pretty unsanitary compared to humans and you're more likely to catch then transmit a disease from close physical contact (not necessarily sex) with one than with a human, especially if it's wild animal.

ursusem 4 points on 2015-06-09 23:50:10

Do you think that is the reason why people find it to be so much more gross? If so, what leads you to think that?

Rannoch2002 Deer Zoo 2 points on 2015-06-10 13:25:37

Zoonosis (diseases that cross the species barrier) are actually quite rare. But you are right about the basic hygiene issues with animals being a breeding ground for disease in many instances, upping the odds.

HeartBeatOfTheBeast Hoof and Claw 3 points on 2015-06-10 00:06:27

I think some people consider animals unclean. They roll around in mud, they poop in their stall, they never take showers. Also many people consider animals as beneath humans in the sense that humans are meant to dominate them by raising them for meat, milk and their skins, not something to have sex with.

ursusem 3 points on 2015-06-10 00:16:51

So.... Just clean them? That seems to be an easy fix. So why do they continue to say that it is objectionable because it's gross/disgusting as if that's supposed to mean something? I feel like there is some other reason why they are finding it to be unacceptably "gross." Unfortunately they never get into why.

I think it is more moral to seek to be kind to others rather than "dominate" them. If your wish is to make love to another creature, I would consider that to be kindly of you.

HeartBeatOfTheBeast Hoof and Claw 4 points on 2015-06-10 00:36:12

But some people think animals are inherently unclean, meaning you can't separate the uncleanliness from the animal.

ursusem 3 points on 2015-06-10 00:57:18

OH MY GOD! REALLY?? That is just so ridiculous! I don't think I really care too much about something being dirty. Little dirt don't hurt. It can be good for the immune system- exposure, ya know. I grew up on a farm so I've always been very healthy. I just don't want to be intimate with humans yuck!

furvert_tail Equine, large canid 2 points on 2015-06-10 10:08:52
[deleted] 1 point on 2015-06-12 22:06:46

And why does that matter? What does the "being clean" have anything to do with whether or not people should or shouldn't be allowed to mate with non-human animals?

I personally find humans more dirty then animals. Animals to me are more natural, earthy etc. Humans just like to spray all that perfume on try to look a certain way in society and most have an "unclean" personality. So just saying animals are gross due to this and that because one personally cannot see themselves living like any non-human on the world and therefor it's unacceptable for anyone to show those respect and love to those who are "gross" is quite speciest in my vocabulary.

HeartBeatOfTheBeast Hoof and Claw 2 points on 2015-06-12 22:14:42

Some people might think having sex with an unclean animal will make themselves unclean. I don't believe this, nor do you, but others do.

[deleted] 1 point on 2015-06-12 22:18:06

Yeah I know, and therefor people like who think it's gross that are not worth my time nor are accepted in my life. Been through too much bigotry with that topic from anti-zoos to really have respect for those types of people.

Neinikuy I am Nein, Hear me rawr 2 points on 2015-06-10 01:01:52

Society is what makes people think that it's gross or repulsive. From my understanding, people are to stubborn and or afraid to be singled out as zoosexual sympathizers.

ursusem 1 point on 2015-06-10 01:07:36

Oh great. So people are basically just sheeple that don't think for themselves and follow whatever the god that is Society tells them to do? Oh how progressive are we? :/

Neinikuy I am Nein, Hear me rawr 1 point on 2015-06-10 01:29:39

People can change, luckily, but unfortunately at a very slow pace. Give it time and things may change

Yearningmice 1 point on 2015-06-10 11:51:14

Wait a sec, we have several non-zoos in this sub and I know many non-zoos who have asked the question, "Why do we hate them so?" and defended zoos.

Pretty much they pay the same price any zoo does for standing up to be counted. Often they have animals of their own.

But yes, the majority are just sheeple. I mean, that's where religion and cults come from.

Kynophile Dog lover 11 points on 2015-06-10 01:49:30

Two words describe the source of both this prejudice and virtually every other one: I'M SPECIAL!!!!

Specifically, people see in animals all of the baser parts of human existence: eating, shitting, fighting, sex. Raw brutality and terror. When people think of humans (and by extension themselves) they usually think of something greater: of pyramids, literature, space shuttles, and calculus. Emotions are kind of mixed, but basically, the greater positive ones, like love, are supposed to be uniquely human because they are undeniable positive experiences and can be described beautifully in language and song.

Because of our need to feel important in the grand scheme of things, we tend to like things that make us feel unique and powerful, while hating that which makes us a part of the larger universe and relatively inconsequential. We therefore make ourselves out to be different from the animals, denying that which is universal while focusing on what we consider to be our strengths.

This tribalism was once more focused, with our ingroup being whatever village or tribe raised us from childhood and the outgroup being anyone and anything different from that. Over that past few centuries, civilization has given us the ability to communicate with each other across the globe and learn about how similar we really are. But this has not yet extended to animals as a whole, so they are still viewed as "foreign" overall despite our now knowing much more about how similar we fundamentally are than we ever have.

In short, people view bestiality gross for the same reason that people a hundred years ago largely found interracial couples gross, or that people in the Indian caste system found the untouchables gross: because it gives them something to which they can feel superior, something which they can reject without understanding and think themselves holy about it.

ursusem 3 points on 2015-06-10 02:18:39

THIS!!! God this really is an issue- related to bestiality- that has really bothered me I would say for my whole life! I find this mentality that humans have to be just the highest form of evil! And we humans never learn from it! If I could, this would be the one thing I would preach on a constant basis everywhere I go for the rest of my life.

ZoroasterTheCat 1 point on 2015-06-10 13:53:57

Most of the horror that HP Lovecraft injected in his works dealt with this, displacing humanity as the center of importance in the grand scheme of things, and the realization would ultimately drive the individual completely mad. We have an innate need to feel special and unique; acting on bestial urges displaces us from our pedestal, and puts on on the same level as the beast. People find this unsettling and offensive to the 'cosmic order' so to speak. If you're familiar with the theological idea of the Great Chain of Being, it could probably be related.

furvert_tail Equine, large canid 1 point on 2015-06-10 16:53:28

I was going to say that I must be quite unusual, but on closer inspection I have just found a very different way to feel "special and unique". With 7 billion others to compete with, I don't see "humanity" as a particularly exclusive club.

Kynophile Dog lover 1 point on 2015-06-10 17:01:28

I love Lovecraft for this very reason. There's a part of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that covers the same thing. Apparently, some inventor decided to take a piece of chocolate cake and extrapolate from it the structure of the entire universe. He then built a device that showed someone that gigantic structure, a perspective which made anyone who entered it go insane. The first victim was his doubtful, nagging wife, and it was only through odd contrivance that it doesn't work on its intended target in the story.

But we don't have to go that far. We just need to recognize that animals have feelings and thoughts of their own (though not really in verbal language), and that those are important when we make moral decisions involving them. Even that is too much for some people, for reasons I'll probably never really understand.

30-30 amator equae 1 point on 2015-06-10 18:57:39

If you really want to go in depth with what the heck is wrong with these furless monkeys, I recommend reading:

-"The Game of Life" and "Info Psychology" by Dr Timothy Leary

  • almost anything written by Robert Anton Wilson, expecially "The New Prometheus", "Sex, Drugs and Magick", "Quantum Psychology" and "Wilhelm Reich in Hell"
  • The "Principia Discordia"
  • Friedrich Nietzsche "Also sprach Zarathustra"
  • everything Alan Watts wrote on Zen buddhism
  • Dr Wilhelm Reich "The Mass Psychology of Fascism"
  • Theodor Adorno´s books

Reading all of this may not ease the discomfort living on the planet of the apes, but it´ll give you insight on human mindsets.

virtua 3 points on 2015-06-10 03:28:56

Different people find different things to be gross just as different people find different things to be pleasant. It's a feeling, not a moral/ethical judgment (though of course people will often use it to justify the opinions they hold) and as such, there's not always a rationale behind it. Case in point: you might find all sex to be gross, but I know of countless people who do not find sexual activity in general to be gross at all.

My guess is that more than likely, it's not the physical act of a human having sex with an animal that disgusts people; it's the mental component of having sex that bothers people. Bestiality is seen as rape in much of society's eyes and rape is seen as a violating, traumatic, and disgusting act. Therefore, many people view humans "raping" animals as a vile and disgusting act.

ursusem 2 points on 2015-06-10 03:51:57

This isn't just "different people"- it's MOST people.

Bestiality is seen as rape because most people don't buy the body language argument. They have a tough time understanding that non-human animals are not humans. They say how can we know what an animal really thinks. And I also believe that it is true that we humans could stand to understand animals better than we do. We don't know exactly what their thoughts are. If we study their neurology I think we could come closer to understanding them more accurately and fully. But a lot of you zoophiles don't seem to want to do this for some reason.

virtua 2 points on 2015-06-10 04:06:24

I said that my guess is that many (or most) people find bestiality to be disgusting because of the mental component. i.e. they see it as animal abuse, as a twisted way for a human to gain pleasure, and as a perverse way to have sex, because most people see sex as special, something to be preserved for an adult human one trusts and loves.

But my point still stands: that different people find different things to be gross or pleasant. Even if bestiality was socially and legally accepted everywhere in the world, there are still going to be people who find it to be disgusting who aren't necessarily against it because at the end of the day, people have different preferences and dislikes.

ursusem 2 points on 2015-06-10 05:00:59

They only see it as animal abuse because they believe that animals don't consent to it/ don't want it. They don't buy the body language argument. I see sex as being something special- but something that we can share with animals too possibly. The specialness of it doesn't mean "animals are therefore off limits" at least from my own perspective. People don't just arbitrarily find things gross- there are always reasons. Something is gross because we think there is something negative about it or it is dirty. I don't think bestiality is any more gross than any other kind of sex from a factual standpoint. Even though I know at an intellectual level that sex is technically gross, it does not gross me out on an emotional level because I see it as being good despite being also technically gross. This paradox is part of the reason why sex is so much fun (in my opinion).

The point is it's dumb to be against a certain kind of sex simply because you find it gross. Sex itself is factually gross. While it may be factually gross, I do not personally feel that it is gross, if that makes any sense.

virtua 3 points on 2015-06-10 05:57:25

I've seen people who have other reasons for believing it to be animal abuse. These people usually argue that:

  1. There's an inherent power dynamic between humans and domesticated animals or animals kept in zoos and that the power dynamic makes it wrong
  2. It's all too easy for humans to project their own emotions on to animals which ties into the next point
  3. We haven't developed the communication skills to truly know what animals want

I see sex as being something special- but something that we can share with animals too possibly.

Perhaps I should have said many people pedestalize sex (not just see it as special), which simultaneously causes them to see sex as a very special and positive thing and to view any sexual action that taints that specialness as a horrible crime, which can be anything from rape to premarital sex to bestiality to oral sex.

People don't exactly choose to find something gross either. And while there may be reasons for why people find things to be gross, there's not often a rational/logical reason for why.

Something is gross because we think there is something negative about it or it is dirty.

That's not true in all cases. There are plenty of things I find gross that I don't see as negative or dirty. I also disagree that sex is factually gross/disgusting, since whether something is gross or not is a matter of perspective.

furvert_tail Equine, large canid 3 points on 2015-06-10 10:04:20

pedestalize sex

I think that's an excellent analogy. It fits very well with some of my own concerns over the years.

actuallynotazoophile ok, I lied 5 points on 2015-06-10 14:45:47

I don't think the zoo community is immune either seeing as how human/bitch still isn't as accepted as acts with a male dog.

HeartBeatOfTheBeast Hoof and Claw 1 point on 2015-06-10 22:07:50

It isn't? I thought both were accepted by the community??!!

actuallynotazoophile ok, I lied 1 point on 2015-06-11 00:58:55

I still see the odd comment from people saying bitches cant consent or something similar along those lines.

[deleted] 3 points on 2015-06-12 23:07:26

For a large majority of it, nope. Even with me and my attractions to exotic (wild animals) species. zoos treat that like I'm doing a cruel thing and I'm stupid for putting myself and the animals "in danger" and make rude jokes about it. If it's not this and that, or not only horse and dog only then it's wrong... That's why sadly I can't see myself having any kind of respect for a lot of zoosexuals even though I myself am one which is depressing.

HeartBeatOfTheBeast Hoof and Claw 1 point on 2015-06-13 01:07:05

Well their wrong, and your right. Nothing they can say will change that. It's just between you and the bitch.

[deleted] 1 point on 2015-06-12 23:03:14

I dealt with alot of that stuff on Beastfourm. You'd think zoosexuals wouldn't be like that but then you find out the hard way....

furvert_tail Equine, large canid 2 points on 2015-06-10 10:02:17

Sex itself is factually gross

I think that leads to the "no sex outside of reproduction" camp. I don't know if I've encountered them outside of straw-men, now I think about it.

Yearningmice 3 points on 2015-06-10 11:59:14

So, when a human says yes, they really want to no matter what?

PLUUUUZZZZEEEE.....

If you do listen to your human partners body language, no matter what their language says(people LIE) then you are not really getting consent either.

You can force an animal, but you can coerce a human.

I'm not sure what your hangup on neurology is, I understand my mare partner just fine when it comes to sex.

ManIsAshamed -1 points on 2015-06-10 04:33:31

I applaud you! I want to know the texture of each species' vagina. Is human vagina the most pleasurable?

ursusem 1 point on 2015-06-10 04:35:53

I'm sorry, but are you some kind of a troll?

ManIsAshamed 2 points on 2015-06-10 04:40:56

No. I am deadly serious.

ManIsAshamed 0 points on 2015-06-10 04:34:27

God made dirt, and dirt don't hurt >:)

Kynophile Dog lover 1 point on 2015-06-10 13:26:52

You ever tried sticking your dick in an ant hill. It chafes an awful lot...

actuallynotazoophile ok, I lied 1 point on 2015-06-11 01:08:48

I feel you might be in the wrong sub. I dont imagine any of us here think doing anything with animals is dirty or degrading. /r/bestiality is over that way.

ursusem 1 point on 2015-06-11 01:32:32

Why encourage them? Rather have them see the good perspective.

furvert_tail Equine, large canid 4 points on 2015-06-10 09:48:29

I find it hard to rationalise my own emotions, so I suspect they don't know why they find it disgusting in the same way I don't know why I find horses and dogs sexy. (Saying "because I'm a zoo" is a tautology, not a reason).

If I'm just hypothesising, some reasons that come to mind:

  • They were brought up to think that
  • They are closet zoos themselves
  • Tribalism (some people try to denigrate Islam by saying "Muslims first invented condoms made from goat intestine, but 800 years later the British removed the rest of the animal", and that only works as denigration if bestiality is frowned upon)
  • Genuine concern for animal welfare, either thinking animals are too small (which I see plenty of us caring about), or that they are fluffy minors (and if anyone is after a fluffy minor, I see them kicked out pretty quick)
  • Mentally associating all sexual deviancy as equivalent, from anal to zoophilia and everything in between.
Yearningmice 2 points on 2015-06-10 12:27:58

So, here is a story of "disgust".

The first time I went down on a mare I had to overcome the idea that she was somehow dirty, that the act was disgusting, and I even had a slight physical reaction to her as i approached. So, here is the think, I knew none of that was true in a factual sense. I had cleaned her, smelled her, tasted her and so forth. Yet in an emotional sense, before the act was consummated, I had those feelings. (Never about penetrative sex however, which is interesting)

The act itself transformed the instant it was performed and is now one of my and their favorite activities. There is no question in my mind now that it was ever really disgusting. We are trained to look at animals as dirty, and to look at dirty as bad. I think the whole caste system or interracial idea mentioned above explains it pretty well. What does it say about someone willing to cross that barrier to general society?

vbnmfghjrtyu 3 points on 2015-06-10 15:23:41

There's plenty of animals I'd find too gross to fuck. Including people.

demsweetdoggykisses 3 points on 2015-06-10 18:32:54

To add to what /u/kynophile said so perfectly, one of the things we do to reinforce our "superiority" over animals is we infantilize them, we turn them into helpless babies that will never grow up in our eyes and thus remove all possibility of viewing them as equal, adult creatures with equally complex emotions, needs and desires. We neuter them, groom them, breed them into absurdly small and cute shapes to the point of causing them genetic harm. We pamper them, cuddle them and baby-talk to them and punish them when they behave "like animals."

The most absurd part of this is not even the human cultural attitude towards zoophilia, it's the way we mistreat and abandon these so-called babies when we tire of them. They are not only like playthings for people to project infantilism on, they are treated like broken toys when we grow bored and discarded in the most cruel and callous ways imaginable. Every day I see stories and videos on reddit about people doing unimaginably vile things to pets that we deliberately bred over thousands of years to be utterly dependent on us for care and love.

Yearningmice 2 points on 2015-06-10 18:54:34

Well said.

Crazy_ManMan Not a zoo, but a friend. 2 points on 2015-06-12 04:24:35

Humans are raised to find certain things gross. They do not actually know why nor have most of them given it much thought. We are trained from a young age "don't do that, that has germs, that is gross, etc." It is a psychological thing based in human instinct for interaction, but this does not make it okay to just go with either. The way I see it 'gross' is little more than a societal construct and holds no water on anything. Things are still unsanitary, but nothing is gross to me. Most sex with animals is not any more unsanitary than most sex with humans.

[deleted] 2 points on 2015-06-12 22:14:05

True. When growing up people would always say things to me like "Eww! that's gross!" over insects, sex, mud/dirt etc. but I did not understand why they think it's gross and would always question them.

It feels like there are only a few among the majority who are not confined in living brainwashed from the human society.

Crazy_ManMan Not a zoo, but a friend. 3 points on 2015-06-12 23:07:25

Everybody is capable of rising above this brainwashing but few ever do. It requires much wisdom and careful wording and a good chunk of time to make somebody realize their own sheeple-ness and that only works if they are willing to listen.