Has anybody noticed this? (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2015-06-17 04:43:20 by Crazy_ManMan Not a zoo, but a friend.

So I have and do occasionally get into debates about zoophilia/bestiality online and I have started to notice a trend. People will hear you agree with a the zoos, will not read anything you say, post one accusatory and derogatory comment, and never replay again. just do not understand why even say anything if they do not want to talk about it at all? Seems a little frustrating because I come with back with a carefully thought out disarming response and they never come back and I just have a hard time seeing why the commented at all if they they are not even going to come back.

[deleted] 1 point on 2015-06-17 05:00:18

[deleted]

[deleted] 2 points on 2015-06-17 05:12:14

Happens to me a lot.

30-30 amator equae 11 points on 2015-06-17 07:56:45

Are you surprised? Really? For "normal" people, zoophilia and bestiality are repulsive topics they don´t want to waste a single thought on. They don´t want to discuss it, but leave their comments so everyone sees they´re against it. Just take a look at the OpBeast on twitter, where a guy named Axyz tries to pour a little sand into the gears of the antis. He tries to initiate a debate about certain statements this Op has made, but the conversation turns to simple defamatory and hateful comments every time. Everything he says is considered a lie per se, just because he is "one of them vile animal fuckers". The Op folks even say that he´s "infectious", maybe they fear talking to one of us will make them into animal fuckers too.^^

But, seriously, this is one characteristic of fanaticism: you increase the volume of "good" signals, according to your beliefs and at the same time, you mute any "disruptive" signals not fitting into your convictions. So, speaking out for the zoos will make your statement into a "disruptive", "bad" signal that´s not worth replying to properly. Anyone who shows even the slightest bit of understanding, even if non zoo, will be immediately marked as a "heretic"...and nobody with the "right" convictions will listen to one of these despicable creatures, because your signals attack their belief system. Speaking out in favor of zoophiles in public/internet will have the same effect as going to a muslim and stating that Allah does not exist or telling a fascist that there are no inferior "races"...it´s all a matter of belief systems. Anti zoo activists have turned their movement into some kind of hate religion where no one shall doubt anything the bosses say and no one shall ever talk, listen or be influenced by "heretics". The usual unscientific "Don´t think for yourself, we already did the thinking for you " tactics...that´s why I never partake in any debates with people of this ilk. R.A. Wilson wrote: "convictions cause convicts" and I have to agree on that. These people are locked in their beliefs, mistake rumors,urban legends and opinions as valid facts and inflate these signals to a deafening crescendo of " Bugger off, you perv, I don´t need to check the facts, I already know what´s true". Thus the usual reply of no reply: Communication denied.

DerErzbaronGomez You and me, baby ain't nothing but mammals 7 points on 2015-06-17 08:49:31

Still someone undecided could read your text and might be thinking about what you said. Then it wasn't useless at least. Every single person we convince is worth the time and nerves we invested.

30-30 amator equae -1 points on 2015-06-18 00:36:16

Okay, you have a point here...but while you, Axyz and some others go fishing for that one undecided person,you fuel the hate of those already made their decision. You pose as a visible target and thus you legitimate their hateful comments, their lies disguised as truth and their fascistoid group dynamics. By becoming a visible target, you serve as an uniting factor for the antis. I still prefer guerrilla tactics over an open confrontation we simply cannot win because we´re outnumbered and outgunned. The only thing we should place our trust into is IMHO trying to outSMART them. Refrain from open confrontation and start acting like the vietcong or any other guerrilla army. Use "hit and run" tactics, don´t try to form a "pro zoo" opposition like your OpZETA; it only will reinsure them of their "noble" motivation to wipe the earth from us "repulsive, sick, vile scum". Be invisible, infiltrate, place doubt and confusion within their group. Read historic books about the french Resistance and other underground armies...and learn from them. Anyone has to realize that this is war and they have declared it on us; so, we better learn how to fight it efficiently instead of wasting our time on senseless debates with unreceptive people. Diplomacy and talking have failed a long time ago...

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" Blaise Pascal

"How good bad music and bad reasons sound when one marches against an enemy!" Friedrich Nietzsche, Götterdämmerung/Dawn of the Gods

"In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule." Friedrich Nietzsche

HeartBeatOfTheBeast Hoof and Claw 3 points on 2015-06-18 01:45:20

Are you saying not to engage politely with the opposition? Are you saying we should deflect their DDOS and hacking attempts with our own attacks?

30-30 amator equae 0 points on 2015-06-18 21:08:52

Do what you want. But I rather fight battles I have the chance to win eventually. Go on and throw yourself at the metaphorical rubber wall made of the antis convictions; you´ll never even leave a small scratch in it. I do not say we should start hacking, but I say that we should infiltrate their group with unsuspicious fake profiles and try to destroy them from within. We should plant doubt and confusion by communicating with them one on one: "Hey, mate, I´ve checked what one of those animal fuckers said about the pictures we publish...and he´s right about them. We do the right thing, so why do we need lies to sustain/emphasize our pledges?" It should be clear by now that the opposition will not hear what any of their "adversaries" say (selective autism), so cloak yourself and let´s see whether they listen to signals coming from within their own group. Destroy their trust in each other, manipulate their communication. When they start to doubt each other´s motives and suspect that they have "sleeper agents" among them, their structure depending on this trust will crumble and eventually fall. Use communication warfare to bring ´em down for good. Like the hashishim did as a more humane alternative to an open battle in the field: a blade, set to the right throat at the right time, is mightier than any army. Use the knowledge of infiltration provided by the hashishim, the other underground armies, the ninpo of the ninjas....we are desperately outnumbered and can´t expect support from the public, so our only chance is the right usage of trickery and deceit. Read Robert A. Wilsons books about B.S. (belief systems) and how to overcome them. Become invisible for them, it´s their hate that binds them together. Imagine what will happen when they cannot channel their hate onto a visible enemy...they will, like it has happened in the German anti scene, turn towards each other and start fighting themselves and thus diminuishing their effectiveness. That is what I would do if I had any interest in bringing the OpBeast down...not direct confrontation. Use your brains. Make friends with them and if you manage to find out who is attacking official government websites, turn in the police on them. Cyberterrorism is a severe felony in every state, so use that to thin ´em out one by one. Attack their vulnerable points instead of punching at the mentioned rubber wall of belief. Remember what Abdul Alhazred, the leader of the hashishim, said: "Nothing is true...everything is permissable". Use this motto to bring their war to them, into their own lines. Let them know they engaged with an enemy that is known to be the most dangerous....one who has nothing to lose anymore. Only a few dedicated fighters can bring entire armies down, never forget this important lesson history has told us throughout the centuries. Let ´em feel that...hit ´em where it hurts the most.

stalnixrm 1 point on 2015-06-20 00:12:05

We cannot be immoral in our methodology and pretend we are somehow better than the "opposition".

DerErzbaronGomez You and me, baby ain't nothing but mammals 1 point on 2015-06-18 09:54:29

I "spread the word" through friends, relatives, my former time in school etc. too.
But it is just stupid to say we should keep ourselves out of all the stuff the antis do. E. g. in Germany the ZETA-Verein was pretty much silent before the ban of zoosexuality arrived. Changing the law back now is way much harder than preventing such a cruel act in the first place. You can't speak about something freely if it is forbidden anyways.

30-30 amator equae 1 point on 2015-06-18 19:45:47

It´s not true that ZETA was silent before the ban. They attempted to influence the parties in charge right from the beginning, starting with Silke Lautenschlägers petition to ban animal sex. They even sent their arguments against a ban to the Bundestag and the "Ostschabracke" a. k. a. Angela Merkel and participated in a hearing regarding this petition. I guess you´re not part of the community long enough to realize that speaking about zoophilia freely was not possible even without the new law. It was always a topic frowned upon by the public. And why should I want to get rid of this law and return to a situation (unregulated) that led to introducing this new law? We don´t need "freedom" IMHO if this freedom is abused by fencehoppers and sadists, by porn fiends and all those who cannot deal with the responsibilities zoophilia includes. What we really need is regulation. Fencehopping, making and distributing animal porn and all the other excesses should remain forbidden. I have proposed another way in several fora and on several occasions: To be allowed to interact sexually with an animal, you need to register. After you´ve been tested psychologically to exclude those among us who have severe mental issues like sadism etc., you get a zoo "license", but only for your own animal. Your animal will be regularly checked by a NEUTRAL vet to ensure that the animal doesn´t suffer physically or psychically from the interspecies relationship...at least that would cease the everlasting accusations of harming the animal. With the license, you will have to subscribe that you do not participate in the animal porn industry, "amateur" or professional; you will have to refrain from lending or renting your animal to anyone else. Violation of these rules will lead to the removal of your license and you´ll be illegal again. It´s similar to a driver´s license: if your conduct shows that you can´t handle the given freedom and are not capable of responsible and tolerable behavior, it´ll be gone forever. You have to realize what exactly led to the new law. Please read what the originator of the first petition wrote some years ago: "This underground group has developed from some people living with their animal partners in silence into a huge group of sexually limitless persons. What once wasn´t a big problem for the public has turned into a mass movement poisoning our society with vast amounts of forbidden animal porn available for anybody, lured more and more sexually adventurous and/or bored people into a scene inevitably interwoven with organised criminals and a shadow scene of semi institutionalised facilities for those to engage in sexual acts with animals for money." You see, it wasn´t zoophilia itself that was considered a problem for society, it was the commercialisation of it. Animal porn just two clicks away, people who "share" a.k.a. prostitute their animals for "friends", group sex orgies with animals included. All of that gave them the impression that there is something growing that needs to be restrained. And don´t tell me this is all made up: a quick look into e.g. the Beastforum will prove them right. Our public image mutated from "Well, there´s this weird guy living alone with his dog/horse/insert preferred species here, but he poses no threat to society" into "Hell, there´s a whole shadow economy, organised rape of animals, huge amounts of money made through the sexual exploitation of animals...we need to do something,now!" I know, it´s hard to digest, but it´s entirely our own fault the law was passed. We have mistaken indifference for tolerance for too long, we have failed at speaking out against the "pornographisation" of our orientation loud and clear, we failed to put an end to the excesseshappening in our own community. We failed in making clear the difference between a genuine zoophile and anyone else into fucking animals, for whatever doubtable reasons they come up with. We missed out on keeping our own community tidy and clean and thus , more easily tolerable for the public. We have turned into a threat for society. Us IRC chatters have foreseen this development 20 years ago and tried to channel it by inventing the zeta rules. But , "penis erectus non compos mentis", an erect dick is not made of thoughts...and so the thoughtlessness and the lack of responsible conduct brought us to this very point in history and the law prohibiting any sexual interspecies contact. Unless we realise that WE are the creators of our own downfall, there will be no change at all. Freedom for animal porn fiends and fencehoppers? No way, I´ll definitely never fight for that. Defending people like Martin P. from Ramstein? No, not at all. Zoophilia has to be seen as a genuine sexual orientation, not a playground for pervs and folks bored with more "normal" sexuality. Animals are NO sex toys and because of that, I will never fight for bestialists mistaking animals as a cheap outlet for their swollen testicles. Zoophilia is about love for ANIMALS, not love for having sex with animals. But exactly the latter misjudgement brought us the new laws...

furvert_tail Equine, large canid 3 points on 2015-06-17 17:05:00

Thinking about this; there is one time I think I've been on the other side of an internet argument. They were an Ayn Rand anarcho-capitalist, very rich, complaining about taxation. I ranted at him, and didn't even bother to read his reply.

How would he have been able to reach me?

I'd like to say that it would have been possible with a rational argument, but he would have had to put that argument into the bit that made me rant, not his reply. If they are responding the way I did, they literally didn't read your counter-argument, so you either have to get them from the first syllable (before they realise which side you're on), or you have to trick them into reading you without realising it — at a guess, garden path sentences.

Crazy_ManMan Not a zoo, but a friend. 1 point on 2015-06-17 23:23:07

I guess, but I have a hard time seeing how they think making a comment and then never returning will do anything, especially after I reply to their comment and they get the notice and everything. Humans are a crazy bunch...

The_Zoo_Brony 4 points on 2015-06-17 13:22:43

From what I've noticed, pretty much every discussion about zoophilia/bestiality is purely emotional on the side of anti-zoos. It's always "But everyone knows it's disgusting!", "I don't have to explain why you're wrong", "Just kill yourself you pervert!" etc. Any attempts at having a rational, fact-based conversation are fruitless, and since the opponent is in majority, they win by default no mather how misinformed and prejudiced their opinion is.

furvert_tail Equine, large canid 2 points on 2015-06-17 16:58:54

My partner, who is very definitely not a zoo, has found the same thing.

Neinikuy I am Nein, Hear me rawr 1 point on 2015-06-17 19:20:27

It's easier to put up a wall when arguing about something one doesn't agree with.

-Furbag- 2 points on 2015-06-21 23:02:35

It's difficult for people to accept facts that do not adhere to their own worldview. Past studies (and forgive me for not providing a reference, I wouldn't even know where to begin to search for the article) have suggested that people feel physical pain when presented with information that conflicts with their own beliefs.

In order to escape from this unpleasantness, the mind will utilize a number of defense mechanisms to distort the logical process, which typically boils down to ad hominem or red herring fallacies that in truth do little to discredit the other party, but makes oneself feel significantly better about the outcome (especially if they leave and forget all about it).

Don't let it get you down, OP. When you get into those kinds of debates, sooner or later somebody has to back down. I've never once seen somebody change their minds on the spot just because they were presented with a better argument.

Crazy_ManMan Not a zoo, but a friend. 2 points on 2015-06-22 04:36:43

Yeah, you are right. Sometimes I forget I am 'not normal' (like literally my brain and body is wired differently than a 'normal' person. I had a bunch of tests taken from it once but they came up inconclusive, so I guess nobody knows exactly what it is) and that most other humans operate a bit different than me. I guess I just do not hold information in the same way and am more worried about what is correct than what I believe. The only debates that really get to me is sometimes when I debate pedophilia, if you thought zoophiles have it bad try being a even a pedophile who knows better than to molest children. It is horrible how they get treated, despite not choosing to have the attraction. Anyway I am tangenting like I tend to do, but thanks for the support. Humans are a crazy bunch. In some ways non-human animals are quite a bit smarter than most humans it seems.