After careful observation over a long period I really am starting to think at least a good chunk of the population really does not care if somebody is into bestiality/zoophilia, it is just a smaller group that speaks very loudly making it seem like the whole world is against you all. It did not really hit me until I was on vacation with the extended family at my cousins house. There was a fairly good number of people around and somehow we got on the subject of the recently legalized gay marriage. One of my Uncles said something about he does not care if it is a man and his dog getting married, "if the man is happy and the dog is happy he does not give a f***" as he put it and he did not say it casually at all, he just threw it out there. Given my experience with this topic I naturally expected a bit of a crap storm, but instead nobody opposed that view at all, in fact they started making bestiality jokes after that. I am really starting to believe the opposition is still fairly big, but not nearly as big as the opposing side would like you all to think. I would like to know what are your thoughts on this?
/r/zoophilia archive
They're louder than they are large. I think most people view us like Opie & Anthony did when they addressed the subject: they don't get it, and it's kinda funny, but really who cares about it? Just another weird thing that people do, so long as they don't hurt anybody and keep it to themselves.
I was actually thinking very similarly as what you have presented here. I think a lot of people (the majority of people) may not care really that much about zoophilia (they wouldn't mind if some people are like that and do that) there is just the small group that is very hateful- and that's the group you run into especially on the Internet.
Like the opposition to gay folks, the crowd who really does care are very loud but not anywhere near a majority. I agree with you that in the last two years, despite what certain groups have done, the general feeling I get is much more accepting.
I agree with you. The opposition is smaller then what they want you to think. The opposition gets noticed because they scream and yell spreading lies. The opposition is very much a vocal minority.
When this topic was more relevant in this country 3 years ago, there´s been a pretty large anti fraction on the opposite, led by a very radical person who spread hatred all around in his texts. a while later, many moderate people have set themselves apart of this radical group, shocked and dissappointed by the huge manhunt that has been practiced. There came up posts like "if those zoos would just stick to one species, one individual that they truly love, I would be okay with that". That radical guy once wrote that he is not so much after those who lead a normal relationship with one animal, but after those who do fencehopping, pornmaking, porn distribution and (but mostly "or") animal sharing. So are we, the true zoos. So to me, it was recognized that many people would basically be okay with my sexual orientation and the relationship I lead with my cow I love more than anything else. What people bring up against zoophilia and what makes them be against it has nothing to do with zoophilia itself, they just don´t know, because an army of sexually disturbed, very questionable personalities call themselfes "zoophiles" when they got caught fencehopping, animalsharing (also for money) and producing porn. And those people are the ones that get public attention. Either by the myriads of sexual perversions and arbitraryness, or by pushing themselfes into public by pointless and superficial interviews or videos like "ask a zoophile" in which they speak out for everything a true zoo would be strictly against and giving a personal picture that fulfills the cliches. Married, divorced, experienced with men, women, and all kinds of animals of both genders. Combined with the dress and face of a child molester, you have the most effective way to discriminate and destroy the true meaning of zoophilia and it´s reputation.
Well I would say there is nothing neccisarily wrong with animal porn or sharing either, just as much as gay porn/partner sharing. As long as the animal is unharmed and nothing reckless or abusive occurs I do not see a reason against it. I can see how people would be more upset about that than a true zoophile though, but I do not think that makes it right. I am against fence hoppers though. It is one thing to do it with permission another to do it without.
There is nothing "necessarily wrong" with harmless porn, partner sharing, etc., but to people who aren't in that scene it often comes off as objectifying or one-dimensional, or as a lack of healthy self-moderation.
And through stereotyping and guilt by association, those assumed attributes are then applied to other zoophiles, including those who strongly oppose such things.
Not saying that is right or wrong, it just is one "reason against it."
First, I would like to apologize for the late reply, I don't want to appear impolite. Well,,the first porpose of porn is the creation of money by exploiting and degrading sexuality. Now taking advantage of human psychology and desires for making money is maybe the most common and important concept of capitalism, so it's widely spread. So I "tolerate" human porn as it's a questionable concept, but it's still just humans involved who know what's going on and don't have to question their sexuality. I don't care what people do in front of a camera and who jerks off to it, as long as it doesn't bother me. However, don't make the mistake of humanizing animals, like so many others. An animal can't sign a contract in which it agrees to take part in something like this, and even if it could it would never do that because the concept of porn is exclusively human. It's easy to say "well, as long as noone is harmed...", but that's not the point. What do you think happens to a stallion who attempts to jump onto random people? A horse would never do that naturally, unless it has been "trained" by people with a very intense crave for big dicks. This stallion - if once sold or changing owner in case of these people being caught via internet porn - is most likely going to be killed, because this behavior is life threatening to people working with him. Do you think someone would take a cow that has been "raped" and care for her? There're some certain facilities out there, happy about every kg of living meat that enters the gate, and may it just be for dog food. Porn is always the objectification of an animal for personal desires (money, fame or attention) putting your partners identity, maybe your's and the inside of a stable on the internet, giving out evidence that is putting safety and her life in danger. For what? This has nothing to do with love. Porn is not the reality, wether it's human or animal porn. I've seen a video in wich a heifer is tied to a wall with a short rope, which is just looped tight around her neck, her breathing heavy, screaming and grunting in pain, trying to get away while a fat, old man with blurred-out face forces his dick into her. In the comment section you could read phrases like "yeah, you fucked her well, that's all this fucking cunt is good for, she's going to take dick for the rest of her worthless life" and applause, someone saying that those screams and ripped open eyes are just an orgasm. Like human porn, animal porn is not the reality, because you never see a true relationship. As soon as a camera is involved in sexual activity, that someone disqualifies as a zoophile immediately, for endangering safety for purely egoistic reasons. So don't try to see this as an equivalent of human porn, which is made for human sexuality, because this is exactly what zoophilia is not: Human. The flood of animal porn that has gone over the internet has shown the negative capabilities of such wankclips. I've seen 16 year old boys with a video on their phone in which a man is fucking a chicken, this boy like "whoaah how crazy and disgusting". How do these things get there? Masses of sexually disturbed people with no real orientation that makes them happy. It's porn consumption, always more, always harder because the old stuff "doesn't do it" anymore. It's people getting together for fencehopping, or a single man bored by the videos, molesting animals. There's been a case (I think in Arizona) where a mid-aged guy was found naked and completely drunk in a box of pigs in the morning. Also, 67 year old man who was travelling cross country to several places to suck horse dicks was caught by an arizona sheriff who described himself as a horse owner to lure this guy into a trap and got him arrested. Many people who have a very questionable attitude to sexuality are attracted by porn into a scene where they feel free around "other perverts" who wouldn't dissapprove them because they're "animal fuckers themselfes". This topic is attractive for sexually perverted, arbitrary, limitless personalities. Now see where this has brought us, not keeping our own community clean of people who should not be considered a part of us. The strict conditions of zoophilia are not there to spoil the fun of peoples sexual crusades through the list of species. Not for us feeling somehow superior or special or discriminating people by calling them "beasties". It's there to protect the true concept of zoophilia, the controversies it brings into western civilisation and their view on animals in general. It's there to protect the true zoophiles who have this orientation, only attracted to one certain species (and not humans), who just lead a wonderful, peaceful relationship in a world that freaks out more about someone loving an animal to the fullest, than the industrialized mass extinction and suffering of millions of individuals of certain species, to feed the hungry masses, to fulfill our egoistic desires. Porn is the result of human's tendency to make everything consumptable. It's supermarket-mentality. A bit of this, a bit of that. Let it be hetero or gay, fisting, rape, multiple animals, the glorification of penises... It's a behavior that can be found by drug addicts who have absolutely no self-control. Always more, more often, other drugs, drugs in combination and so on. And it's never your own sexuality that you experience, it's someone else's. So in a world where every 14 year old can watch every dirty fantasy you can figure out, how do you know what it does to people's personal development? What will happen when these people have become adult? There's been studies which had headlines like "Todays youth is unable to feel love". How I said, I can tolerate all of that to the point where some people with certain personal predispositions start to break the species border, on their way through all kinds of sexual perversions and abnormalities.
I think you make a very good point, but I am not sure all porn is like that. That I am aware of for some it is with an animal they have a relationship with, and for whatever X reason they make pornos with their animal. Some people it is a fetish to be video-ed and watched doing sexual things with their partner, and I could see that extending to some zoophiles. I mean sure, the over-sexualization can and does cause many bad things, but at the same time, I think there is an acceptable line. After all, to an animal sex is not special, and I do not see why it would care if it was videoed or not even if they were intelligent enough to understand what that mean. I think you are very correct in the things you oppose, but at the same time, in moderation and with the right controls i think porn can be similar to video games at least on a neurological scale as long as it is not too over the top or damaging to any living being in any way, I think it is at least acceptable. I think of it much the same way I think of erotic literature. Some people just need/want that visual that really gets it off with them and in some ways it can be a way to help one explore their own sexuality in the safety of their own home, just as long as it is natural to the animal and not trained or forced at all and all the proper safety and precaution is put in place.
Now at the same time, there is the legality. I do not find it wise to be filming ones self in a place where it is illegal or in a way that may get the attention of less understand groups if you get what I mean as you are correct that endangers the non-human animal(s) even more than the human.
It's probably true that the vehement opposers are a vocal minority, but it only takes one or two people to lynch someone or ruin their life. Silence doesn't necessarily equate to approval, after all.
My sense is that the experience isn't too telling, really. Sex with animals is one of those things people love to laugh at (or perhaps laugh off) in jokes because the reality is so jarring to them. They might have a different reaction if discussion were about a real person were doing real things with a real animal.
It´s the usual Bell Curve distribution linking both extremes anti and pro. You have a small crowd absolutely opposed to any kind of sexual contact between yoomans and animals. Nothing can and will change their mind, neither reason nor science. On the opposite site, you have a small crowd defending almost anything that can be done with an animal sexually. In between those two extremes, the vast majority of people reside, including the zoos...some tend more to the anti side, some are more permissive, but many are undecided or plainly don´t give a f*ck about it unless it is happening in their near neighborhood. And exactly those undecided folks can be taught in our favor, but can easily be lost to the anti side by incidents with fencehoppers popping up in the newspapers and other bad conduct.
The usual notion of "the entire world against us" seems to be nothing more than drama made up by the "drama queens" amongst us. Of course the public image of zoophiles isn´t the best and people have a lot to bring up against zoophilia...and yes, it is hard to find openly supportive persons besides your family and friends. But we are far from the dark picture the "drama queens" like to paint. We should also kick out the illusion of all-positive, never negative approval some of us have. Damn, even heterosexuals get hated although it is perfectly legal and considered normal. There always will be criticism of zoophilia, like there will always be criticism of homosexuality, promiscuity and any other non-conformist sexual conduct. Instead of dismissing any form of criticism, we should embrace any form of it as a chance to progress, develop new and more accurate viewpoints to defend our orientation. We should stop thinking in blacks and whites, there are so called pro zoos damaging our public image more than any anti could, we have antis doing jobs the zoos are too lazy or too selfcentered to do themselves, like bringing down beast porn sites. There´s one thing we should never forget when looking at the antis and their actions: without the negative examples out there, the antis probably wouldn´t exist. They´re enraged mostly about the evidence they gather in the net...I recommend doing a little mind exercise. Imagine you are some random guy, with no idea what "zoophilia" is and the usual "Yuck!Disgusting!" reflex taught by society. Google "zoophilia", click on a few links and tell me, what exactly would YOU think of those stange idiots demanding rights for "animal fuckers" , calling themselves "zoophiles"? Can you believe us now, our claims of mutual love and consentual sex, with the porn sites you just visited? Of course all of the anti´s claims usually are exaggerated and formed to fit into their beliefs, but often there´s a small grain of truth embedded in all of the lies. As long as we continue delivering the ammo to the antis, we shouldn´t complain when the bullets we gave them are fired on us. With all of the negative evidence out there, the antis will always be ahead of us in pulling undecided people on their side.
I really think there is not that can be done about the porn any more than can be done about other banned porn kinds, I really think the only way this will get better is if people start doing what the gays did 50 years ago and just stand up in a group all together and say "no more" of course with that it started as a riot so perhaps something more peaceful like a rally or protest would be better.
I agree completely, but unfortunately any effort to encourage people to not post the kind of damaging information referenced above meets with much concern about the freedoms of others... to shoot the rest of us in the foot.
On some well-known sites there are a number of outspoken people who are only into animals for the physical gratification, and in some cases for the fact that sex with them is taboo and illegal. So of course they won't be sympathetic to trying to spread understanding.
Once discussion opens about one's motives, inevitably people start putting these on various scales of comparison, pitting one type against the other. This leads to the dreaded "true zoophile" argument, which is narrowly but crucially different fom the true scotsman argument. Sometimes there really are valid differences that are necessary to recognize.
Finally, let's not forget that this "marginalized group" of supposed un-true zoophiles is likely a majority, if the raw numbers from porn sites are any indication.
Personally I think I've provided no "ammo to the antis," so I feel a little justified in complaining when bullets others give to them are fired at me. What is the proposal to stop that supply line?