When I was just coming to terms with my own zoophilia when I was about 17, I did not realise just how taboo it was. It was legal in Sweden back then, and I knew plenty of people thought bestiality was immoral, but so do plenty of people with other things, so what?
When I was 18 or 19, and a major tabloid wrote about "bestialists", and I saw the hate pouring out of the text, and I read comments from people that were essentially "they should all die", I realised how much zoophiles are hated,. It's not just considered strange to like, people actually think you are a bad person who deserves a violent death! This made me feel suicidal, and I actually contacted a therapist, but I don't know if it really helped...
Every now and then, when I'm reminded of this, such as when bestiality became illegal about two years ago, or today, when my boss complained about a liberal group who criticized the law, I take it way too personally. I get anxious, shaky, I start worrying whether or not "it shows", I have trouble focusing for the rest of the day. Sometimes this even makes me relapse into depression.
And I don't even have an animal partner to worry about! I just get so terribly upset about knowing that for some people, the fact that I sometimes think "that dog is hot!", is enough for them to want to hurt me.
I don't really know if I can talk about this with a therapist any more, I've lost contact with the one I had before, and nowadays bestiality is illegal... and I know that therapists are able to break their vow of silence if they suspect that their patient risks doing something criminal.
How do I shake off this feeling of "omg, the world wants to kill me for being zoo" that I get every time the subject comes up?
It can get stressful. Just hang in there. One of your top priorities should be your safety and the safety of the animals you have. You don't want them taken away.
Check out the #zoo IRC channel on FurNet. (If you don't know what that means, I'll help you connect.)
(I'll write more later.)
A smaller less intimadating channel is the #zoo counterpart on anthrochat. Just added in this one as the furnet one is crowded and can be scary to newcomers, though it is much more active
Also worth noting, furnet is historically irredeemable garbage (but as everyone knows it's furry and zoo tradition to flock to the worst websites in droves)
What's wrong with it?
Owners have history of going overboard and k-lining people from the whole network for no reason even just them not liking you, and having arbitrary network-ride rules. It's why AC was made, ie hands off let the ops handle their own rooms (the way it should be).
In case some people may not know, many IRC servers, including furnet as of at least several months ago (not sure of anthrochat) will gladly reveal your IP address to the world by default, and you need to provide an email address to register your nickname. A registered nickname is sometimes a prerequisite for entering channels, if the channel ops want. Be sure you want your nickname, IP address (VPN'd or not), the #zoo channel, and that email address, to be potentially linked somewhere on the internet.
To be fair, if this is the same #zoo channel I remember from a year back or so, the conversation was innocuous enough you could say you just didn't know. After all, furry cons call their lobby the 'zoo' so it's not like it doesn't have history as a general social-area term.
I thought it might be helpful to inform people unfamiliar with IRC of those risks. They can then work that information into their own plans or comfort zone, and act accordingly.
In other words, at least be aware they should have a "plead ignorance" excuse ready, as you suggest.
If you need to chat you've known me for a few years now, PM me for my skype or something.
This is probably not true, although you'd have to research Sweden's laws to be sure. I'll give you an example from here. The psychologist has to report to authorities ONLY if you are likely to harm a minor, or yourself, or someone else. They are a little faster to decided if it is a minor but basically they will ask you if someone you know or yourself is in harms way. Then they have to find a way to commit you which means the law. Okay, so technical details over with. My psychologist(and the two regular docs I've told) did not even write down all my reasons for visiting them. In the case of my psychologist she asked me to be more vocal and remind her about zoo because she wouldn't have a reference in her notes, I wasn't seeing her for zoo related issues and after challenging me about it she felt it wasn't something I needed to work on. The regular doc just wrote multiple partners for the STD test I decided to have.
lol oh lord, off topic but I have to know how that conversation went. I can only imagine...
He was recommended to me through friends. He was a gay and offered non-judgemental services to the fetish, BDSM, alternate sexuality crowd. It was difficult to ask the first question about risks from horses, but we had a good chat and I saw him several times and he did research for me on zoonosis. Very professional and I never felt judged.
I believe I had started the conversation shyly with "I have what is an unusual question." He expressed disbelief. "I'm curious about the possibility of disease from intimate contact with an animal. Horse specifically." He worked in farm country and was, in our next meeting, only really surprised that I wasn't ashamed... Just cautious.
It was an interesting time in my life, for sure.
well that actually sounds pretty great. helps to be in the know eh.
Swedish version is that if they hear about a crime, or plans for a crime, that could lead to 2 years of imprisonment or more, they are obligated to report to the police. Bestiality, in theory, could sentence you to 2 years. And while I could claim that I've never had sexual contact with animals and never will, I don't think it would be good therapy if it's based on lies.
That's unfortunate.. Do you get anxious about regular bad news? Perhaps getting methods to deal with that would help?
Not really... The only thing I can think of is that if I would meet homo/biphobia in that was this extreme, it would probably also lead to similar feelings. But the main difference is: discrimination and hatespeech towards sexual orientation based on gender is illegal, so everyone "knows" it's bad. If I would tell my therapist that I'm afraid my boss would say something homophobic, they would probably tell me to contact the union. But if I say I'm afraid that my boss would say something "paraphobic", then the answer would probably be "well, that's just her opinion, isn't it"?
The closest thing is when I talked to one therapist about shame in general, and she said to me "well, if you don't think you've actually done anything wrong, then you don't have to be ashamed just because other people say you've done something wrong". There is something true in here, but it's easier said than done to just stop caring about what other people think. I think I would need some kind of guidance or exercises in how to stop worrying about whether or not I'm a bad person.
After all, there are a lot of people who think they are doing the right thing, but should stop, because they are actually hurting others. IS, for an extreme case. Regular old racists, for less extreme case. Saying that nobody should care about what other people think sounds false when there obviously are people who should listen.
But this doesn't seem to hit your nail on the head, does it? You're not ashamed, at least from your descriptions, rather terrified of what might happen/anxious. Or did I get that wrong?
I would also note that you seem to have built a house around your thoughts of what other people are going to do. If I say X they'll say Y and so forth. You don't know. This is a key thing about mental illness is that you're brain isn't working well enough for you to know if you are being reasonable in your assessment of situations. I've had several friends, mostly women, who do this on a constant basis and it sucks the life out of them. That's another thing a therapist can help you learn to change. You'll still think "Person Y will do " but it won't freeze you up.
True, but a popular rebuttal to that argument is the analogy of a rational person jumping out of a flying plane without a parachute because "you can't prove you'll hit the ground and die." The exaggerated point is, some outcomes, although not guaranteed, are still predictable... such as the stereotype that typical people in so-called western-culture generally frown on those who are sexually attracted to animals. I think "girl chatter" is on a different order of magnitude.
Regarding the therapist's point, maybe I'm being nitpicky given the translation, but I believe "shame" is the emotion people feel for not conforming to the expectations of others. It's guilt that dictates a feeling of having done something wrong.
Often in zoo forums the argument will arise, "stop worrying what others think," but it's in the nature of socialized humans to interpret others' reaction to our actions. For people who are so-socialized (the ones complaining about this feeling), it's usually not something that is easily turned off.
I'd argue that the human condition is unknowable in a way that gravity is not. Yes, you can sorta predict the way in which things will go but someone with depression or anxiety cannot properly evaluate these perceptions of what others might do. That's the really evil part of mental illness. In fact, I'd argue based on my own experience that the stereotype is just that. That people are way more accepting in an individual basis (leaving the mob out of it which will always turn out bad for a minority). Some "sciency" estimates are that 50% of people have actually touched an animal in a sexual way.
More to the point for this discussion, part of the process of healing this is to know you can't know for certain or evaluate just how good/bad it might be. At least that has been my experience and the experience of those in my life who also feel this way and have the same issues. How many times have you heard a death threat on the internet? How many people actually go through with it... hell... how many people actually have the balls to stand up and be counted at all?
Saying just turn it off is, I agree, an asinine thing to do and certainly not what I suggested.
I didn't mean to put the "turn it off" words in your mouth. I had a longer rant where I talked about other frequent reponses to this type of post but trimmed it, sorry if the remaining context was ambiguous.
The word "stereotype" was chosen deliberately. I can't survey every individual in my town, my country, etc., so I must extrapolate from people that I do have the opportunity to cautiously probe and categorize the best I can. (I'm not mentally ill, and I think a lot of not-mentally-ill people have this concern.)
But do you need to know for certain? Even if you ask 10 people and it's 100% negative... even if 50% (or 100%) of people have touched an animal in a sexual way, I'm not sure it matters if people still outwardly support laws, actions, or even just talk on the record as thinking you're a disgusting pervert who needs to be locked up or killed... and I think that's the OP's point: Many people are negative about it, and that takes a toll.
Stop worrying, start living.
Why wasting any lifetime on those who aren´t worth worrying about? Who cares about all these haters? If there´s one thing to be learned from video games, it´s " If more and more enemies are coming, you probably are on the right track."
As a zoophile, you should become used to opposition. This will never end, legal or illegal, there always will be people who are not friendly. Get used to that. That´s the price we have to pay for being able to experience unconditional love, the sort of egoless love humans will never be able to give. Don´t fear them because you´re different, laugh at them because they´re all the same.
Strive for insight in yourself rather than torturing yourself with what others think about you. But don´t misinterpret this as permitting everything that seually comes into your mind. Aleister Crowley´s motto "Do what Thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law." intends to encourage you to investigate what "Thou wilt"...notice the different spelling? It´s not a misspelled "you", the "Thou" originates in the greek word "theos",god. Find out what life wants from you. And if it is being a partner for the animal of your choice/ the choice of both of you, then be glad you´ve been offered such a rare gift. Zoophilia is love and devotion for animals, zoophilia is something trying to bring back together what was separated long time ago, humans and animals/nature. In ancient times, when shamans and druids were society´s connection to the "otherworld", being a zoophile was one of the few ways to qualify for becoming a shaman yourself. Nowadays, earrings are fashion, almost anyone wears them. Did you know that piercing one´s ears once was used as a symbol for understanding animal language?
Remember: zoophilia is the "Dark Souls/Demon Souls" among sexual orientations. It is damn hard, each step hurts like hell sometimes, but yet, nothing is more rewarding than going through a puddle of shit marathon and finally reaching the goal. The enormous feeling of overcoming any hurdle, any fight, any opposition, throwing your fist in the air, yelling " You wanted to stop me, you tried everything to break me, but I´m still here, you bastards!"
"Going the path of least resistance is what makes rivers and men crooked."
Eh. Zoos have two main advantages that you have to always keep in mind.
1) Most people really don't give a shit. It's the hyper religious and zealous animal rights activists who do, and those are a minority. The majority will think it's just gross and/or something laughable. Homosexuality seems to repulse people more on a global scale, and I think the reason for that is because it leads to confusion and anger when confronted about how someone could possibly love someone of the same gender, while when it comes to zoophilia, they outright deny it's possible and just think you're a harmless weirdo.
2) Authorities don't care, and evidence is hard to find. Like... they simply don't give a shit. The police aren't going to bust down your door and demand to inspect your dog's butt. Most people who get arrested are caught because they're caught in the act, they were caught in a police sting, or because they posted homemade porn and revealed too much information. Even then, those arrests are pretty infrequent as shown by the fact that Beastforum has entire galleries, a fuckton of users (a lot of them being older folk who aren't tech savvy enough to take additional steps to secure their identity), and doesn't even operate in the Darknet. Anyone can sign up in a few minutes. But even still, there's no large scale crackdowns.
It's risky, sure, but I actually enjoy the hate that I get for being a zoo, and actually taunt antizoos from time to time. Maybe I have a dog. Maybe I don't. Maybe I've committed a crime, maybe I haven't. Maybe it's all just a joke. People have actually whined on the FBI site and directed them to my Reddit comments, and nothing's came of it.
Why would you enjoy the hate and why would you taunt them? I would think we should all ultimately hope that one day they would all be more tolerant/accepting of us. We wouldn't want to make them dislike us more than they already do.
Nobody has any obligation to like another person, and sexuality is no exception to this. Some people choose to be decent human beings and be tolerant of others ideas identity and beliefs, but the fact remains that there simply is no obligation to do so. There is no guaranteed premise for acceptance of us, and in my honest opinion, the sooner you accept this, the happier you will be.
The way i view my sexuality is like this. It's none of anyones business anyway. I wouldn't tell anyone i was a zoophile, accepted or not. It simply doesnt matter what I love, and anyone who thinks differently is not anyone i would choose to be friends with in the real world, so why worry about it?
I try to convince them at first with reasonable arguments, but if they ignore that and skip to the "omg!! you should be arrested!" part, I just skip to the mockery.
I can tell when they're willing to change their minds. I've done it multiple times. But some people? They're unlikely to be persuaded, especially by an internet comment. They see it as repulsive as pedophilia and torture.
So I don't bother. I have the upperhand, and I know it. I refuse to beg for their acceptance to exist as who I am.
I don't understand the reactions of most non-zoos to this subject. I don't know why they don't like bestiality so much. When I probe them for a 'why' I don't get much of anything other than "you crazy" responses. I do not fit in this world, apparently.
I've noticed the most hate from "progressives"--feminists, lgbtq, kink. They are very concerned about rape culture and enthusiastic+informed consent, so they end up applying the same standards for animals that they do for humans. Any conversation about it gets shut down with "but animals can't consent," and zoophiles are dismissed as rapists. Then they eat a cheeseburger, and complain when you call them a murderer in response.
That's one of the big reasons I've soured on the Social Justice crowd in general: they only stand up for people when it's easy. Racism, sexism, homophobia... society on a whole has accepted that they are bad. Running around looking for examples of them and trying to correct them, sure it's laudable in certain ways, but it doesn't make you some prophet who understands society, people, and morality on a deep level--all it means is that you took mainstream teachings to heart, just like the "crazy religious people" that they hate.
That's my rant. The people who should be defending us the most, are the ones who are persecuting us the most.
Sadly, I have to agree with you. The causes for which they claim to stand are venerable ones, but ultimately their efforts are designed to make themselves feel superior to others rather than effect real change. As such easy targets like zoos are perfect for the few of them that care about the issue, such as Carol Adams, author of The Sexual Politics of Meat: A Feminist-Vegetarian Critical theory.
I think a large part of the backlash from progressive groups is that we are constantly brought up by conservatives as the next progression of the slippery slope, especially when it comes to LGBT issues.
Yeah, gays seem to hate us more than they really should and this is my assumption as well.
That is the main reason why gays don't like us/ want to distance themselves from us.... unfortunately.
"it gets shut down with 'but animals can't consent,' "
i just reply with the ways animals can consent. shuts them up every time
What do you say when they inevitably bring up that children can consent in every way that animals can (which is true), and that it is ubiquitously agreed that children can't consent?
I have an answer, but I am curious about yours.
ive never heard that before, but i guess ill just say "what do children have to do with this argument?"
I am a kinky feminist who is into social justice, I am also out as a zoo to my kinky social justice friends as well. Hate comes from everywhere, not entire groups of people. Your logic is flawed.
Nah, your logic is flawed. "Most A are B" does not imply "All B are A," i don't know why you think I said that. I'm just saying where I noticed the most hate from, and explained why it bothers me. So unless you're saying that I haven't noticed the most hate from them, or that the implications of that shouldn't bother me, I'm not sure what your point is.
That's something I worry about too (living in Germany). But more and more I got the attitude of letting their words and threats don't come near to my mind. I simply don't care anymore.
What helped me to get this attitude is philosophy (especially Peter Singer's) and animal rights and most importantly time. I didn't visit a therapist because I knew who I am and how to deal with antis and animal hurters in general.
I still got the feeling that the world wants to kill me but I care less now.
Tabloids are awful everywhere, you should ignore their opinions. In the UK we have a tabloid which not only actively supported the British equivalent of the Nazi party right before the UK joined WW2, but which is currently saying the same things about asylum seekers now as it did about Jews 75 years ago, and when some groups tried substituting "migrant" for "Jew" in quotes of actual Nazi propaganda on that newspaper's website's comments section, they found their comments up-voted wildly by the readers.
The head of state of the UK is also the head of the Church of England, so theoretically we should be a Christian nation, but our people sure don't act that way.
I find the best medicine is to find somebody who fully accepts you for you who are and you can talk to about anything with. For me I had somebody I could do so with online, but now I do not have somebody anymore. Still it helped so much having somebody I could trust with anything I needed to share. If you want you can contact me via PM or Skype if you want. I play Minecraft and have a steam account if you want to get to know me more before getting into deeper things to share. I will keep anything you do not want shared strictly confidential.
A zoophile Minecraft server would be something... Thanks for your offer, but I feel better now.
Glad to hear you feel better. I do not host a server but a friend of mine does host a private server and he is non-judgmental. In fact I talked to him about zoophilia before. He likes to make offensive jokes sometimes but he does it all in good fun and tries not to actually upset anybody.
I was lucky enough to marry a women who tolerates it. I'm not exactly allowed to indulge but she does know about my interests. Every Christmas I joke that the only gift I want would be a Husky or German Shepherd in heat. Yeah, not going to happen, but I still annoy her with the request.
not allowed to indulge? but she tolerates it?
Maybe considers sex with another individual cheating, no matter what species?
wow. i never thought of it that way.
I can look at porn and talk about it but I'm just not allowed to actually do it. Though, if I just did so anyway she would get upset but it wouldn't end the marriage or anything. I suppose I still have the option but out of respect for her I just avoid it.
But can you tolerate avoiding it forever?