Ever since several subreddits that promoted violence, personal attacks and illegal activity became banned, and several more pornographic subs became "quarantined" the talk and fearmongering on /r/zoophilia has intensified, with many posters advocating a move to voat or other forums before any action has even been taken against this sub.
The reason why we need to hold strong is simple. Reddit is one of the largest sites on earth. Millions of people spend all day on reddit and never even leave the site to explore the web without the aid of reddit links and discussions.
As such, a sub like /r/zoophilia may be the first exposure that many people have with the concept, it may be the first place that people learn that their paraphilia is not unique, that they are not alone and that there are people willing to talk about it, people who have good, stable lives and can offer hope to people, particularly younger people who may feel that they are damaged and cannot live with the shame of their attractions. This is the only place where issues like consent, mental health, lifestyle and legality are discussed without it turning into a storm of fighting and judgmental attacks.
We are important. This sub was important to me, it's been important to a lot of people who have posted here with dilemmas, worries and issues that they cannot talk about in the outside world. It's important for people who are just wondering what zoophilia means and what kind of people are zoophiles. This is the kind of community that needs to remain strong, because it makes a difference.
The big worries right now:
What if /r/zoophilia becomes banned?
It won't. The quarantining of several bestiality porn subs proves that we will not be banned.
What if /r/zoophilia becomes quarantined?
I say so what. It's not likely to happen, as most subreddits that have been quarantined have been places where explicit porn has been posted, or other adult materials that the wider public may not only find offensive, but may be illegal in some places. I don't know of any place where the discussion of sexuality or zoophilia is illegal.
If the worst happens and /r/zoophilia becomes quarantined for any reason, that just means you need an E-mail attached to your account to view it. It literally takes 3 minutes to make a G-mail address and they don't require any personal information. There are plenty of other E-mail providers too. It will not effect the majority of reddit users or browsers of this sub and I do not think it's a justification to allow this sub to die in the face of how important it may be. Even if just one person rethinks their life or their prejudices from reading this sub, that makes it worthwhile to maintain.
Why did Tundrovvy-Volk delete their account?
Personal reasons. I frequent this sub and I have it on good authority that their decision to step down as moderator had nothing to do with recent events. The timing was purely coincidental.
Shouldn't we make a stand for free speech by leaving reddit?
No, stop spreading this message. reddit is a private organization, free speech has no factor in their decisions. If they lost a sub like /r/zoophilia it would hardly phase them, while it may indeed phase some people who need a support forum like this.
What can I do to help?
stay active, propose discussions, help each other, report antagonizing or malicious posts.
PS: I'm not a mod, I just realized that I care about this sub.
This subreddit was the first zoo community I found online years ago and actively kept up with, and helped me so much with accepting myself and this part of my sexuality. I'm not going anywhere, and I'd hate to see anything happen to this sub. I'd hate to see everyone leave for another site and abandon this place, too.
I always suggest this sub for people who have questions, or want to learn more about zoophilia, or need advice with coming to terms with their own zoo feelings and don't know where to turn. It's probably the most visible community we have, besides BF (which isn't even a "zoo community," really). Let's keep this place active...
I definetly don't want to see this sub die, if just for the reason on it being really the only place I feel like I can make a personal, albeit distant connection with someone who is similar to me, in that so taboo of a way. While I can understand wanting to leave out of frustration with the "system", I personally don't want to see everyone go. As was said, this sub can (and should, imo) be there for people to have a safe, comfortable way to learn or grow, whether it be a sexuality or just a curiosity. Anger, frustration, and all the other negative emotions flowing around lately... They don't help anyone, really.
I think everyone needs to take a chill pill honestly. The absolute worst thing i see happening to this community by admins actions is a quarantine, which is hardly even a slap on the wrist. As has been mentioned before, a throwaway email is easily made and solves the issue 100%. Its not some huge persecution brigade by the admins, and its certainly not an attempt to impose morality upon a group of people. While it may look thay way, the far more likely option is that reddit admins are securing funding by weeding out subs or content that advertisers wouldnt want to be associated with. If you ask me, id be 100% okay with them quarantining this sub. I dont see it having a significant impact on how this sub runs.
Honestly, I'm surprised people are making out this to be a big deal at all.
When FA started banning zoos outright, people were less up in arms than here. And there were probably more zoo accounts there than on reddit as a whole.
But I can't deny it stresses me. I think I speak for everyone when I say they are pushing our buttons with these kind of actions. Persecution at any level is a very sensitive subject for any zoophile, and it doesn't take much for people to get hurt over it... this whole thing shouldn't be, but it is, and we need to recognize in the end it says more about the reddit admins than anything about us.
We will endure. We always have.
This sub has done wonders for me. It made me accept myself as a person and who I am. The mere fact that I'm no longer ashamed of myself can be attributed to this sub and I thank each and everyone of you for it
And on the other hand, things like this are precisely what quarantining will hurt. Those who need it most will be afraid to seek us out.
I'm glad we helped you and only hope we can continue to do that in the future.
Yes, exactly
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but why are people posting "don't panic" or "keep this place active" comments? I don't see any panic, and it seems there are multiple new comments every day. What am I missing?
Discussing a backup plan in case something happens seems to me like a prudent way to safeguard the community. Has anyone said they're leaving here to go elsewhere just out of fear? I hadn't noticed.
Anyway, thanks for the good post on why this place is important!
Lot of people keep talking about moving to Voat or other forums and there's been a general tone of fear and distress thats unwarranted. I don't want to point fingers at anyone but it keeps coming up and I haven't seen a lot done to dissuade it, and the timing of tundrovvy deleting his account just as the porn subs get quarantined is definitely making people wonder what's happening.
As a matter of fact, I didn't notice he deleted his account until you mentioned it here, and still don't see any post or dialog about it where people were "wondering what's happening" so I'm still a little confused but thanks and pardon my interruption.
I saw a few confused comments a few threads over, and I know for a fact there are over two thousand subscribers here and most of them are quiet lurkers, probably used to seeing T-V's posts and comments as a figurehead of the board, and if I was surprised that such a prominent figure bailed, I know there are others who may take it as a sign of something related to all the recent talk or drama surrounding recent reddit shake-ups.
Oh that sneaky fucking word. Your bleeding heart liberal vision does not justify its use (read: abuse).
Animals are not children, that's a human projection. Zoophiles are not rapists, that's an narrow-minded knee-jerk projection. Calling someone liberal is not an insult, that's a fool's projection.
Way to walk right past the point to the most unimportant interpretation of the comment. Well now I'm not surprised you think you can just throw that word around without real reasoning.
You don't seem to be speaking for the majority here and sound like something nasty crawled up your ass and you're just trying to pick a fight because you're unhappy. Why don't you slink back to whatever angry alt account you came from and stop being a shitheel on an otherwise supportive and understanding sub.
Seriously? lol
I should point out the other delicious irony: I haven't said a single insult to you other than saying your writing was liberal, but you have no problem calling me a shitheel.
I called you a shitheel because you came across like a troll (as score seems to agree with) and called my message bleeding heart liberalism or something, and made the implication that I'm trying to manipulate people or coerce readers... for what reason, you still haven't elaborated. I stand by my shitheel assessment.
Take a breather for a moment man. I'm sure he thought you were one of the neo-nazis who frequent our reddit at first (sadly, I am not kidding). Your comment sounded kinda like one, admittedly. I may have fallen victim to the same assumption and I generally don't bring my best debate skills to town with them because they are generally pretty bad debaters and it's overkill.
I still think we disagree but perhaps my words are better chosen now and not perhaps specifically crafted to irritate a nazi/fascist philosophy of service to a central state/cause.
Let me be clear, NOBODY has a "responsibility" to this mission. That is pure nonsense and nothing written here justifies that. You can VOLUNTEER your efforts for it if you so value it, but imposing unjustifiable obligations is the most insidious form of coercion, and this entire post is ruined by its title.
You'd have to be a zoo (or at least, subscriber to this reddit who cares about zoo issues) to understand the context of this responsibility he speaks of, I think.
What he means is it is every zoos obligation to attempt to improve our condition. Supporting this reddit is currently the best means. By all means feel free to disagree, but don't call that coercion.
I have to leave your other comments aside because I'm too flabbergasted someone would write a statement so rationally arguably wrong, so plainly, again out of thin air.
It IS coercion and it's very popular in politics. From his replies it even seems intentional, but that's just a guess.
His intention is to spread a message that we should help other zoos by not panicking or spreading negativity on this board. Do you honestly think I'm trying to coerce people into some kind of brigade... to do what exactly? I gave the context for what I said, it's clearly written why I used the words that I did and what the context is, so what's got you so upset? Your attitude is of paranoia, please self-examine your attitude.
I'm sure he can speak for himself. And what he said was an incredibly broad and far-reaching statement out of some air I'm not privy to, possibly worse than your title:
where "our" is not completely well-defined, which could be a saving grace, but from context it's not looking good.
I pride myself on being able to go back on my words and reevaluate them. Perhaps it's time to do that again. I'll admit and grant you: I could've phrased it better. I was on the end of a terrible sleep/wake cycle that haunts me to this day.
I'll phrase it a bit more generically, though this will probably irritate you just as bad:
It's a HUMAN obligation to attempt to improve the world in which he thrives. In a zoos case, the most direct path to improve ones own environment probably lies pretty close to home.
Of course, this is not a mandatory obligation. But I believe it is one that shouldn't be taken lightly. And you are free to disagree.
shrugs
Then don't follow it. Humans operate on coercion of others to a goal. At least this is a good goal.
Responsibility is a term used loosely at times out here in the real world. I do believe that it's irresponsible to abandon the sub like some naysayers seem to be pushing for, for the reasons that I've said and others have supported here, and the opposite of irresponsible is responsible. You have a better word? Make an intelligent, calm and friendly argument, not snide attacks. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head on an online forum, so if you feel that way, I'm sorry you can't distance yourself to recognize a conversational tone, or feel the need to attack people with a rude, bitchy attitude because you have a symantics issue, the exact kind of thing I was hoping my message would have some effect at curtailing, because it makes everyone look mentally ill when people with big mouths drag everyone through shit because they don't like the way someone said a good message. How petty.
That would be convenient since you can't seem to take any for your own statements.
That is not the contrary of what your title implies! Your title implies twice as much, and I think you know it.
The rest of what you wrote is distraction, ironically.
Tell me what you think my big agenda is. I'm now just morbidly curious.
You've plastered it all over these posts and in that title. You won't stand an once of "negativity" (unless it's your doing, apparently) without crucifying someone in return, which is a proven downhill-only policy, and you're trying to impose on everyone they have some kind of responsibility to maintain this sub as a complete hugbox, which is not even rational, they don't... this is boards politics across the board my friend.
Sorry, I had no idea I was in the presence of the sub's voicebox. Next time I want to tell people something good I'll keep my mouth shut and not impose my liberal platitudes, lest someone get the wrong idea and calm down and treat others with respect. You're right, I totally wanted to make everyone love me the most, I wanted an army even. An army to do my bidding and attack those who have disparaging messages.
It was the perfect plan. And you foiled it all.
I wrote that your TITLE is a truly awful statement and not justifiable, and it trashes your post as a result, and you should have put more thought into the title and what you're implying there, intentionally or not (it's just hard to believe not). The rest of your opinions in the post, without title, I would have no problem with, you can believe what you want, but they do not magically transform into the responsibilities of others. Remember, this is reddit, titles are half the site.
Very good thoughts /u/demsweetdoggykisses, I'm sorry I was busy all weekend with some extracurricular activities and unable to comment properly.
Wow, all I can say is that I'm proud to be "filthy liberal scum" then.
I certainly believe if I can I do have an obligation to help people.
I know this isn't popular in certain libertarian circles nor particularly in the republican sphere where the rule is help yourselves even to the detriment of others.
Thank you for the support. I think "obligation" us one of those nuanced words like "love." it can mean a lot of things to a lot of people but I hoped the context made it clear what I meant, only that we need to stick around and offer help, advice and support and not start bailing to other boards or sites.