'It is also damaging to our country's reputation to allow this practice to continue here while it is banned elsewhere.'
Apparently there also was a segment on TV in finland recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPUsXpCSXCs (embed link for viewing without age verification). Maybe not the best candidates to interview, but it's not too bad.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 1 point on 2015-08-31 17:08:09
I think the weakness of the TV segment is that the people interviewed don't seem to have an extensive knowledge on the topic. Which is fine, since they seem like average people, if a bit shy and uncomfortable.
I'm interested to know what study they were referring to in the interview.
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 1 point on 2015-08-28 17:48:49
I hope Zeta-Verein wins, yet I am doubtful because opbeast doesn't play by rules with all their lies and untrue propaganda.
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 2 points on 2015-08-28 18:13:35
Mm. I wish I knew how lies go faster and further than truth. Not just with zoophobes, also anti-vaxers, birthers, freemen of the land, 9-11 and Apollo conspiracy nuts, global warming deniers, homeopaths, horoscope believers, young-earth Creationists, and anyone who thinks playing the lottery is a good investment strategy.
Yearningmice 1 point on 2015-08-29 01:56:24
Belief is more powerful than truth. See the placebo effect.
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 1 point on 2015-08-29 09:59:56
Belief is powerful, but all those groups I've listed believe more strongly no matter what evidence is provided.
I wonder, though — do groups just appear more intransigent after providing proof they're wrong, either because the counter-proof was flawed or because it was correct and only those who are insufferable boneheads remained on the old team? Or are they actually more intransigent because the belief itself is a tribal identity?
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 2 points on 2015-09-01 04:02:17
Belief is powerful, but all those groups I've listed believe more strongly no matter what evidence is provided.
Not only that, when their world view is challenged, their response to defend it is often vehement, or given the opurtunity, violent in nature.
We certainly do have an uphill battle. But if we don't fight it, no one will. And that will only make it worse until we have nothing left.
dudewithaloop 2 points on 2015-08-28 18:17:25
While I don't want to be an ass: Here we go once more. Why have all the people from the countries that are falling like dominoes now not answered back then the call to help the Germans? Germany was the one and the very best chance we had. It was an amazing opportunity to stop the domino strategy of the anti side dead in its tracks. NOW that the bullshit is - as forecasted - rolling over their countries they start to write letters. We would have needed the letters in numbers, the turnout at the demonstration we had, and - yes - a few more donations back then when we had the real chance to make a difference, at the beginning of the chain.
zoozooz 2 points on 2015-08-28 18:26:35
I personally kept to myself for a few years. I wasn't aware that there were ZRDs, demonstrations or even a movement to get the law made.
But really, with a Vermummungsverbot, how much of an expectation could we really have for people to show their faces? The people at the counter demos surely made photos and did who knows what with them, right?
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 1 point on 2015-08-28 22:33:32
Like /u/zoozooz, I didn't know there were any protests. I didn't even know it was legal in Germany until after it was banned; super-ironically, as one of the chances I turned down to lose my virginity to a dog was in Germany in the late 1990s.
Yearningmice 1 point on 2015-08-29 02:16:26
So yeah, if you had responded to inquiries and been willing to open your books to people who had donated, you'd have had more money. Quite frankly, at the time I had cash burning a hole in my pocket, but I could not trust to any security of data.
Na5CO3HCO33 1 point on 2015-08-29 09:41:54
It's easy to say that in retrospect, but it was impossible to forecast events with any real certainty. What's more, most zoos simply felt unsafe, and can you really blame them for that?
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 1 point on 2015-09-01 03:58:46
No, the netherlands several years (almost a decade actually) back was the best chance we had.
It was like within 10 votes of being stopped, just FYI. Heck, in Denmark, a queens "veto" (failure to give assent, basically refusing to sign) could've stopped the bill (though admitedly, the queen does nothing there but look pretty now).
Germany was far more cut and dry, sadly.
SusitarCanidae 3 points on 2015-08-28 19:32:02
Does anyone have the link to the Finnish original?
So, Finland will outlaw having sex with animals. So what?
You all act like it is safe to be a known active zoophile without laws. It never was.
The struggle for tolerance will NOT be won by winning legal battles, it only can be won by winning the hearts of everyday people.
When there´s no one to report your "perversion" to the police, the law becomes ineffective. When those the law aims at wisen up and adapt their life according to the new situation, I predict that not even ONE single person will ever face a judge.
In Germany, sex with animals is forbidden since July 2013...yet, not a single trial because of "zoophilia" has taken place. Two years, folks. Two years of prohibition and not even a single person was sentenced.
Okay, with a law, the stakes have grown higher and exposure will not only result in your social death, but also in fees, taking away your animals and, in some cases, maybe jail time. But all of this can be easily avoided by simply sticking to the original zeta rules. Every single zoo staying away from handing out evidence via uploading porn and advertising on online portals will be safe. I´d like to cite "Saddlebum", a BF user who coined the phrase "Work for privacy". Really, just keep it to yourself, don´t create evidence or too much people who know about your sexual activities.Almost anyone who has been exposed has supported his own demise by interfering with society; fencehopping, making and sharing AP and animals via online portals are still the number one causes for great sensationalist headlines. Don´t be surprised when the cuffs you handed out to the authorities yourself say "click" ...on your own wrists.
The wave of laws against "zoophilia" Europe is recently experiencing originates in a simple fact: the focus of zoophilia (and what some people think it is) has shifted from verbal to visual representation. What once was dealt with by websites mainly with words has become porn centered around the year 2000. It was only a matter of time until the backlash from society begun; actually, I was surprised how long it took society to take notice of what was growing right in front of their eyes. When the "Mr Hands" case hit the news, I knew that this would have consequences, very serious consequences in the near future. Now Finland will accompany all the other European countries in outlawing "zoophilia", regardless of some folks trying to object.
We as a community were so busy with enjoying ourselves on the "zoo playground"...porn, stories, making "zoo friends".. that we totally forgot the old proverb:
"Turn onto politics, or politics inevitably will turn onto you"
Hedonism once again takes its toll. Don´t put the blame onto society; we as a community are to blame. Self reluctance and indifference.
I was accused of trying to further divide an already small group of people in here; until you all recognize that this is the only way to create a coherent and small, but effective group of people standing 100% behind the basic ideas of true zoophilia, the dominoes will keep falling, one by one.Not many still standing,btw...
As you can see in one of the links provided above, it all completely depends on how you "sell" animal love to the people...if you have bad representants with doubtable and incoherent ideas and justifications, society will just fuck you up the arse really hard. Any word counts. And sadly, those who better should not talk about it usually are the ones shouting the loudest. We need professionalism, not stuttering amateur wannabe zoos only in it to fuck some animals "because it´s fun".
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 2 points on 2015-09-01 04:00:15
So, Finland will outlaw having sex with animals. So what? You all act like it is safe to be a known active zoophile without laws. It never was.
It's safer. One less notably powerful group trying to put you behind bars or hurt you never is a bad thing.
ursusem 1 point on 2015-09-01 04:45:34
This.
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2015-09-02 05:47:33
I partially agree on this. But you guys tend to overemphasize the legality thing. Sure, not having a Damocles sword hanging above one´s head is nice, but it becomes less and less important if other Damocles sowrds are already hanging there. Social death may be even more significant than legal persecution and its penalties.
I personally see the illegality as a lesser evil than full permissiveness, as it has been in Germany until July 2013. You can avoid the authorities by being a SMART zoophile, sadly a very rare and seldomly seen subspecies in our community.;)
Legality of sex with animals only brought out the most vile and disgusting conduct from people who are more of an exhibitionist than zoophile and sadly shaped the public image of "zoophilia" more than real zoos. Making it illegal won´t make zoophilia disappear, but it surely will keep some of the folks from "trying out zoo". I don´t ask what would be better for myself; of course, it would be easier without the law. Instead, I ask what is better for the ANIMALS...if the law is able to spare a single animal from being raped by a wannabe "zoo", I´m totally okay with being pushed into illegality. I´ll endure that, I´ll deal with that...for the sake of the animals wellbeing. Zoopilia should ALWAYS place the animals wellbeing before anything else. If I have to deal with partially unjust laws, well, then so shall it be. If only one animal doesn´t have to endure an asshole wannabe because there is a law against sex with animals, that´s the price I am willing to pay with a smile on my face.
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 1 point on 2015-09-06 00:58:09
I don't worry about it too much, so not sure who you are targeting with "you guys"
I think it's a step in the right direction. The first step, for that matter. But we still have a mountain to climb.
/r/zoophilia archive
Our friends from "opbeast" are campaigning for a ban in finland: https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=opbeast%20finland&src=typd
While they won't win any rational debates with stuff like that, they may get the attention of people who will in turn write irate letters to lawmakers which in turn might give them a reason to lobby for a ban purely based on public perception. At least in denmark this was an "argument":
Apparently there also was a segment on TV in finland recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPUsXpCSXCs (embed link for viewing without age verification). Maybe not the best candidates to interview, but it's not too bad.
I think the weakness of the TV segment is that the people interviewed don't seem to have an extensive knowledge on the topic. Which is fine, since they seem like average people, if a bit shy and uncomfortable.
I'm interested to know what study they were referring to in the interview.
I hope Zeta-Verein wins, yet I am doubtful because opbeast doesn't play by rules with all their lies and untrue propaganda.
Mm. I wish I knew how lies go faster and further than truth. Not just with zoophobes, also anti-vaxers, birthers, freemen of the land, 9-11 and Apollo conspiracy nuts, global warming deniers, homeopaths, horoscope believers, young-earth Creationists, and anyone who thinks playing the lottery is a good investment strategy.
Belief is more powerful than truth. See the placebo effect.
Belief is powerful, but all those groups I've listed believe more strongly no matter what evidence is provided.
I wonder, though — do groups just appear more intransigent after providing proof they're wrong, either because the counter-proof was flawed or because it was correct and only those who are insufferable boneheads remained on the old team? Or are they actually more intransigent because the belief itself is a tribal identity?
Not only that, when their world view is challenged, their response to defend it is often vehement, or given the opurtunity, violent in nature.
We certainly do have an uphill battle. But if we don't fight it, no one will. And that will only make it worse until we have nothing left.
While I don't want to be an ass: Here we go once more. Why have all the people from the countries that are falling like dominoes now not answered back then the call to help the Germans? Germany was the one and the very best chance we had. It was an amazing opportunity to stop the domino strategy of the anti side dead in its tracks. NOW that the bullshit is - as forecasted - rolling over their countries they start to write letters. We would have needed the letters in numbers, the turnout at the demonstration we had, and - yes - a few more donations back then when we had the real chance to make a difference, at the beginning of the chain.
I personally kept to myself for a few years. I wasn't aware that there were ZRDs, demonstrations or even a movement to get the law made.
But really, with a Vermummungsverbot, how much of an expectation could we really have for people to show their faces? The people at the counter demos surely made photos and did who knows what with them, right?
Like /u/zoozooz, I didn't know there were any protests. I didn't even know it was legal in Germany until after it was banned; super-ironically, as one of the chances I turned down to lose my virginity to a dog was in Germany in the late 1990s.
So yeah, if you had responded to inquiries and been willing to open your books to people who had donated, you'd have had more money. Quite frankly, at the time I had cash burning a hole in my pocket, but I could not trust to any security of data.
It's easy to say that in retrospect, but it was impossible to forecast events with any real certainty. What's more, most zoos simply felt unsafe, and can you really blame them for that?
No, the netherlands several years (almost a decade actually) back was the best chance we had.
It was like within 10 votes of being stopped, just FYI. Heck, in Denmark, a queens "veto" (failure to give assent, basically refusing to sign) could've stopped the bill (though admitedly, the queen does nothing there but look pretty now).
Germany was far more cut and dry, sadly.
Does anyone have the link to the Finnish original?
http://blog.zeta-verein.de/wpcontent/uploads/kannanotto_zoofilia_04082015.pdf
Thanks!
So, Finland will outlaw having sex with animals. So what? You all act like it is safe to be a known active zoophile without laws. It never was.
The struggle for tolerance will NOT be won by winning legal battles, it only can be won by winning the hearts of everyday people. When there´s no one to report your "perversion" to the police, the law becomes ineffective. When those the law aims at wisen up and adapt their life according to the new situation, I predict that not even ONE single person will ever face a judge. In Germany, sex with animals is forbidden since July 2013...yet, not a single trial because of "zoophilia" has taken place. Two years, folks. Two years of prohibition and not even a single person was sentenced. Okay, with a law, the stakes have grown higher and exposure will not only result in your social death, but also in fees, taking away your animals and, in some cases, maybe jail time. But all of this can be easily avoided by simply sticking to the original zeta rules. Every single zoo staying away from handing out evidence via uploading porn and advertising on online portals will be safe. I´d like to cite "Saddlebum", a BF user who coined the phrase "Work for privacy". Really, just keep it to yourself, don´t create evidence or too much people who know about your sexual activities.Almost anyone who has been exposed has supported his own demise by interfering with society; fencehopping, making and sharing AP and animals via online portals are still the number one causes for great sensationalist headlines. Don´t be surprised when the cuffs you handed out to the authorities yourself say "click" ...on your own wrists.
The wave of laws against "zoophilia" Europe is recently experiencing originates in a simple fact: the focus of zoophilia (and what some people think it is) has shifted from verbal to visual representation. What once was dealt with by websites mainly with words has become porn centered around the year 2000. It was only a matter of time until the backlash from society begun; actually, I was surprised how long it took society to take notice of what was growing right in front of their eyes. When the "Mr Hands" case hit the news, I knew that this would have consequences, very serious consequences in the near future. Now Finland will accompany all the other European countries in outlawing "zoophilia", regardless of some folks trying to object.
We as a community were so busy with enjoying ourselves on the "zoo playground"...porn, stories, making "zoo friends".. that we totally forgot the old proverb: "Turn onto politics, or politics inevitably will turn onto you"
Hedonism once again takes its toll. Don´t put the blame onto society; we as a community are to blame. Self reluctance and indifference. I was accused of trying to further divide an already small group of people in here; until you all recognize that this is the only way to create a coherent and small, but effective group of people standing 100% behind the basic ideas of true zoophilia, the dominoes will keep falling, one by one.Not many still standing,btw...
As you can see in one of the links provided above, it all completely depends on how you "sell" animal love to the people...if you have bad representants with doubtable and incoherent ideas and justifications, society will just fuck you up the arse really hard. Any word counts. And sadly, those who better should not talk about it usually are the ones shouting the loudest. We need professionalism, not stuttering amateur wannabe zoos only in it to fuck some animals "because it´s fun".
It's safer. One less notably powerful group trying to put you behind bars or hurt you never is a bad thing.
This.
I partially agree on this. But you guys tend to overemphasize the legality thing. Sure, not having a Damocles sword hanging above one´s head is nice, but it becomes less and less important if other Damocles sowrds are already hanging there. Social death may be even more significant than legal persecution and its penalties. I personally see the illegality as a lesser evil than full permissiveness, as it has been in Germany until July 2013. You can avoid the authorities by being a SMART zoophile, sadly a very rare and seldomly seen subspecies in our community.;) Legality of sex with animals only brought out the most vile and disgusting conduct from people who are more of an exhibitionist than zoophile and sadly shaped the public image of "zoophilia" more than real zoos. Making it illegal won´t make zoophilia disappear, but it surely will keep some of the folks from "trying out zoo". I don´t ask what would be better for myself; of course, it would be easier without the law. Instead, I ask what is better for the ANIMALS...if the law is able to spare a single animal from being raped by a wannabe "zoo", I´m totally okay with being pushed into illegality. I´ll endure that, I´ll deal with that...for the sake of the animals wellbeing. Zoopilia should ALWAYS place the animals wellbeing before anything else. If I have to deal with partially unjust laws, well, then so shall it be. If only one animal doesn´t have to endure an asshole wannabe because there is a law against sex with animals, that´s the price I am willing to pay with a smile on my face.
I don't worry about it too much, so not sure who you are targeting with "you guys"
I think it's a step in the right direction. The first step, for that matter. But we still have a mountain to climb.