Some of you surely remember this incident. A 51 y.o. guy fencehopped and allegedly hurt a mare while inserting his arm into her vagina. Everything was filmed by surveillance cams installed at the farm. A few weeks after this incident, this same guy was attacked from an anonymous person and fell into a coma. Until today, he hasn´t recovered, but the police continued to investigate on the attack. On August, 21st , the police arrested the 29 y.o. owner of the mare the fencehopper has paid a "visit" in April; the owner admitted having met the fencehopper on the night of the attack and even admitted he attacked him.
The arrest of the 29 y.o. man puts an end to all speculations about some clandestine "zoohater" who attacked this man without any connections to fencehopping. Now it´s clear that both incidents are indeed connected to each other and the attack was nothing more than a late revenge for what the fencehopper did to his victim.
This should remind all of us how important it is choosing dilligently who to support. Mr Burdinski of ZETA for example tried to turn this case into something pogromlike, insisting on his belief that the attack was a stand-alone "hatecrime" directly aimed at "zoophiles". He also said that "it could have been any zoophile" receiving a beating for his orientation. Now it is clear that´s not the case.
Summary: an injured horse, a whole region in panic and disgust, one guy lying in coma, another guy facing some time in jail for his revenge, a self proclaimed attorney/ "pro zoo" group made fools out of themselves, the public image of zoophiles further kicked into shit....fencehopping isn´t fun. Fencehopping isn´t zoo. Fencehopping is egoistic and has nothing to do with love for animals and very likely turns out in a similar way like in this case; affordable night vision cameras pop up in almost every horse keeping area nowadays.
There really is no room in the zoo community for this type of behavior. One must treat all involved parties with respect in zoophilic relationships. That fencehopper disregarded everyone's well-being on multiple levels. The owner was violated, the mare was injured, the public safety was compromised. Everyone loses. There are no reasons that come to mind to back the fencehopper. ZETA's involvement seems... unwelcome at best. Trying to do something is admirable, but be selective, for dog's sake. Make sure you know what the ramifications are before you go in. Not just for you, but everyone. This incident will only serve to fan the flames.
The owner wasn´t violated, he was the one hitting the fencehopper and accidentally put the FH in a coma. That´s why ZETA/O. Burdinski insisted on an "anti zoo pogrom" before the identity of the attacker wasn´t clear. I know that taking physical revenge isn´t right and illegal, but I can´t deny my sympathy for the owner....who knows, maybe this guy is a zoo himself...
When I imagine accidentally running across an asshole who invaded the stables drunk and hurt MY mare by inserting his arm into her vagina while jerking off, I probably would have done the same. Fencehoppers generally seem to be inaccessible by words and arguments, so the only choice left one has is the good ol´ language of whoopass to get the message across. It´s sad that the owner hit the FH in a way that ended up in a comatose state...personally I had involuntary contact with a few fencehoppers myself over the years and always decided to refrain from striking because the results are not exactly predictable, as in this case. When I get near a fencehopper, I always rely on koppojutsu, the art of breaking bones. Much more predictable outcome than a punch to the face or a kick to the head. By breaking joints, you even can leave a mark that stays to the end of the fool´s life as joints never return to their original state once broken. The three fencers I had to deal with surely think back to the night they met me on the pasture when the weather gets cold and rainy...;)
Sorry! I meant violated as in threatening something one loves. I guess I made the assumption that the owner really cared about the mare, since the anger had to come from somewhere. I guess what I'm saying is that fencehopper was inconsiderate of the owner's own sentiments, and that is an important factor as well. I think this might be tied into why fencehopping, in the majority of cases, is egotistic. It disregards the owner's relationship to the animal, whatever it may be, and the fencehopper proclaims either a deeper understanding of the animal's needs than the owner or an unwillingness to acknowledge anyone's feelings other than their own.
It's an all around tragedy that everyone involved is standing waiting for trial or in the hospital. However, the indignation demonstrated by the owner is within reason. Just need to do it a bit more effectively and not put the guy in a coma.
When people do this, it probably freaks out the animals.
Just as I won't defend fencehopping, I won't defend an attack based on it.
There isn't much more to say here. Let justice do it's work. This is one instance where the law in Germany might accomplish something good...
However, don't fool yourself into thinking this is not a hate crime. Hate is hate, regardless of who it's directed at. This guy may have earned some hatred in full but when you make it violent you lose all my respect.
That said, that ZETA supports people like this will always upset me. I think their heart is in the right place and they ARE better than anything that came before them, but... they leave a lot to be desired.
Well, don´t judge me before you know all details... All three fencehoppers got what the deserved. The first immediately swung at me when I asked him what he was doing here, I had no choice but to fight back. The second wasn´t aggressive towards me, but towards the horse he had chosen. When I tackled him to prevent injuries on the horse, he fought back, hit me twice and nearly broke my nose. To end it quick and swift, I did some oyagoroshi and kogoroshi on him, breaking his thumb and two fingers, an immediate manstopper. The third drew a knife on me when I shouted at him. I had no choice but to do some serious damage. I broke his jaw, elbow and knee; afterwards I called the police. I even was accused and had to appear in court, but the charges were dropped immediately after the judge viewed the surveillance footage and saw him with the knife in his hand. I NEVER attack myself, but I know how to effectively defend myself and apply just the right amount of force to deal with an attacker. It all depends on the actions of the one standing in front of me. I even let some fencehopper run when they haven´t done stupid things.
It´s sad, but sometimes it is necessary to use force. Compared to the US, all those who had the "pleasure" to be dealt by me are lucky...in Germany, guns aren´t allowed, so I have to rely on martial arts. In the US, at least one of those three probably would not be alive anymore...
Fencehopping isn´t punished hard in Germany. If the Espenau guy had been caught in flagranti, he would´ve been free again a few hours later. This guy was known as a fencehopper for years and I doubt he would have stopped his vile conduct. He has a long history of being spotted in foreign stables he doesn´t belong to, even after the police arrested him for a few hours. Our laws have no effect to prevent further fencehopping actions, a fact even ZETA is aware of. It´s only human to get angry and act on your own if the law fails to protect you and your animals from being "visited", isn´t it?
When it comes to ZETA, there are so many mistakes and embarrassing things they did in the past that I won´t agree with your "heart in the right place" theory. Maybe the have good intentions, but they almost always mess up big time. They play the "zoos are victims of society" card way too often, they even compare zoos to the jews in third Reich days, they fucked up big by copying a zeta into a David´s star, they supported some guy who allegedly rented his animals to "friends" and published porn of these encounters on BF and also already was convicted of distributing and making animal porn (The Ramstein animal brothel case), they published a very apologetic pamphlet regarding fencehopping ("only innocent and completely harmless youngsters who want to try out "zoo" out of interest") on their site for the first Zoophile rights day, they do this embarassing demos (said ZRDs) , they engage in completely pointless fights with the antis instead of thinking strategically...basically, they fuck up everytime. ZETA has one big flaw: they all are total amateurs in politics. They can´t foresee how their actions and statements are received by Joe Average. They don´t do it like a chess player and think several steps ahead, instead they just act and wonder why their actions have no effect (best outcome) or negative effects (usual outcome).
I don´t want to talk down their good intent, but on many occasions, they have done more harm to the zoophile movement than any anti could ever inflict. They oftentimes even forget their own ZETA principles. They are in desperate need of more professionalism, a coherent strategy, better ideas regarding Public Relations and how to communicate with the normal people. I´d love to believe in them making a change happen, but I really don´t see them as a vital motor of change right now. They are not open to criticism, they haven´t improved in any way since they were founded in 2009, so it´s very hard to believe in them. If zoophilia someday will be relegalized, it´s definitely not something ZETA can be held accountable for. Their structures are crusted and their agenda is far from what zoos want.
If there will be hope, it will have to come from another , not yet existing zoophile movement. Sad, but true....
"All three fencehoppers got what the deserved." Wait a minute, you caught three fencehoppers at the stable you work at??!!?? Were they fencehoppers or just trespassers?
I caught all three of them while they tried to do something sexual with the horses. The first one was standing behind a pony mare with his pants down, the second chased a gelding all over the paddock and kept "going at it" although the gelding tried to evade this guy and the last one I had to fight tried to manipulate another gelding´s penis. All three were definitely not only trespassing by accident...
Over the 8 years I worked at this stable( a big and well known one, breeding successful showjumpers , with around 270 horses ), I had the "pleasure" to "meet" roughly about ten fencehoppers, the three from above are the worst ones, but there were other incidents I had to intervene to prevent harm. I had an apartment located directly above the stables and from early spring to late summer, I usually was the one responsible for having an eye on pregnant mares about to give birth; "Fohlenwache" (foal guard), as we call it. Basically, you´re up all night and have to check out the mares every two hours or so...just in case a birth turns out to be problematic. I ran across all of the fencehoppers when patrolling between the visits of the pregnant mares.
That's awful you had to deal with so many fencehoppers. They were stupid to pick a well known and well staffed stable instead of say a small stable with only 3 or 4 horses. It seems fence hopping is a greater problem in Germany then it is in the United States because of gun laws.
Among the professional riders/instructors, fencehopping is wellknown and during the three years of apprenticeship, you´re taught to keep an eye on any signal of strangers invading pastures and stables. I don´t think it´s dependent on the gun laws in Germany, but on the mild to nonexistent consequences you have to face when caught.
In the Espenau case, the fencehopper has a long history of being spotted. Before he was put into coma, there were at least three people who reported him to the police. The worst thing you have to fear when trespassing and fencehopping is being fined a few hundered Euros maybe...no other consequences. The weak laws may be an even bigger factor of people happily continuing their illegal actions even after they got caught.
The owners attack on the fencehopper is totally understandable for me, the FH terrorized a whole area of horsekeepers/stable owners and reporting him to the police could not make him stop invading foreign territory. It´s only a matter of time ´til someone snaps and takes the law into his own hands, as it has been in this case. Maybe the attacker will go to jail...but I bet he´ll be a local hero among the horseowners in that area when he´s released. The German law seems to be so weak when it comes to fencehopping that attacking was the only choice to end this FHs actions once and for all.
That their "heart is in the right place" means essentially what you are arguing. That they mean well, it says nothing to the results, which I'll even admit have been mixed at best.
So did he or did he not hurt the mare? (Just to get it correct. It really doesn't matter that much, since there are horse rippers and when a stranger visits your horse at night you can't and shouldn't assume he's not one)
Can you link sources? Makes it easier to follow the story.
By the way: They posted an article "Why fence hopping is a no-go": http://www.zoophiles-infoportal.org/warum-fencehopper-ein-no-go-sind/. It's not like they aren't trying to distance themselves from it.
The injury was recorded by the vet examining the mare after the incident. It was an intravaginal cut, probably from the guy´s fingernails. Not a big issue, but enough to get an infection. You can read it following the links provided by Mr Burdinskis homepage (HNA-Nachrichten), there even is a picture of relatively fresh bloodstains on another horses box. Although I cannot say for sure if the injury was done by the fencehopper, it perfectly fits what can be seen on the surveillance video published. Another hint: the bill from the vet, several hundered Euros. Without any harm or injury, there never would be enough reason for a bill that high...
Of course they now try to distance themselves from it...but try to guess how many replies I sent them insisting on publishing an article like the one you linked....I´m nagging them for some years now. Maybe they just gave up resistance hoping that this annoying arsehole would stop posting comments...;) By the way: You have witnessed how they deal with comments not fitting into their agenda 100 %. They just delete it. Instead of encouraging an open discussion, they try to subdue anything that proves them wrong...to me, it basically is similar to the structure of the anti fraction. If you decide to differ in opinion, you become a pariah. So, take another guess how much effort and posts it took me to force Mr Burdinski into publishing the article you mentioned...;)
well I sympathise somewhat with the horse owner. Just imagine how insulting it would be to have caught the guy on camera, with his past history widely known by everyone and still have him walking the streets (and the fields...). Add on the fact that the horse he loved got sodomised by the old pervert. Imagine having a family member raped, hell the horse owner might even have been a zoo himself so imagine someone fucking your mate whom you call your significant other. I cant say what I'd do if I was put into his position but I can definitely see where he was coming from.
Im guessing the horse owner will get a light sentence, suspended sentence maybe? I hope so anyway.
Fencehopping per se doesn't have to be egoistic at all. It depends on the whole situation.
Everyone should know the risks of FHing. For me it isn't the personal risk as someone who genuinly loves an animal he "can't have" only has the possibility to FH. Neither do I care really much for the owners. Yes, it might be scary that strangers are out there with your animals but as long as they do no harm there isn't any problem for me. The worst thing is that if a FH gets caught it usually comes into the media and even if the animal itself was okay with it there are still the "sick animal rapists" that recieve hatred again.
That is why I personally stopped FHing since I am 16 years old. I met the mare of my life I thought back then. But there is nearly no chance of getting her when I finally am financially stable enough to have enough money and space for her. It saddens me every single day but taking the risk would be far worse for me and the zoosexuals in general. The only way for me to get out of this situation is working hard and fast to make a life together possible.
Quote: "Fencehopping per se doesn´t have to be egoistic at all" "Neither do I care really much for the owners" "(...) as long as they do no harm there isn´t any problem for me"
sigh Yeah, not egoistic at all to give a rat´s ass about the owner, ´cause he´s just the asshole paying for the horse´s maintenance, so it´s there for you to fuck ad libenter. Who cares about the ones paying, huh? For you, there´s no problem if no harm (how do you know btw?) is done...what the owner thinks about it is irrelevant, I guess. This dumbass is only there for the payin´...
Thank you for proving my point....
Paraphrased: "Muh money, muh property."
Holy crap, man, do you really think you should pay for a horse first to then have sexual relations with it? Asking if no harm is done gets more silly. How do you know there was no harm done when you had sex with a horse? Wait, you can't know 100 % sure? Good lord. Sex with horses must be cruel then. The problem with yours is that you see yourself as an owner not as an caretaker. Horses know what they want to be part in or not. Using your own opinion above the horse one's for the sake of this matter itself isn't providing any good for the horses well-being.
I think his point was more like, there are people who trespass and hurt horses (sexually or not), but there's no way to know if they're doing harm or not unless you're present. And with fencehopping, you won't be. There's no way to know if your animal is hurt until after the fact. I know there are plenty of zoos who fencehopped and would never dream of hurting an animal, but that's not true for all people who fence hop.
You said you "don't really care much for the owners," and I think that's where most people are having an issue. You can disagree with the concept of "owning" animals all you like, plenty of people here do, but imo that still doesn't make fencehopping morally okay. Nor is it legally okay, when it involves trespassing. But the feelings of the person who legally owns the horses (and property) should be considered above anything else. What if the owner was also zoo, and in a relationship with that animal? Would that change how you consider the owner in that situation?
This isn't meant to be rude, I'm honestly curious- if you had the property and setup and the mare you loved lived with you, would you be okay with someone sneaking onto your property to have sex with her (and possibly hurting her, you wouldn't know until after they were done and left) without consulting you first? I don't know about everybody else here, but if someone had sex with an animal I'm in a romantic relationship with without my permission I wouldn't be okay with that at ALL. Everybody gets their own opinion, but I think that's the most common one here, so that's going to affect their viewpoints.
I said I don't care for the owners because it is the horse that can be in trouble first. As someone that genuinely loves (only wanting sex is a mean assumption that doesn't need to apply to FHs and there are plenty of so-called "zoos" that only own animals for their sexual pleasure anyways) horses and wants to live with horses in future which I can't do now because I am too you and do not have the money for it I actually value the horse more than the owner when it comes to possible interactions with a horse. If a horse wants the contact but the owner doesn't it still would be okay because it is the horse's decision to interact with the FH. You guys don't need to mention that harm could be done. I talk about FHs that do not tolerate doing harm to the animal. Anyone that harms on purpose or tolerates it isn't someome I would consider animal loving. Still you can't be 100 % sure that everything you do is harmless. This applies to FHs and to the owner's. The FH must act to minimize the damage that could been done and yes, potentially FHs is more likely to harm animals but it doesn't harm for sure. Riding as an example is a dangerous act too. I don't even like riding for myself. Why do you take the risk?
If someone as a zoosexual owner of a horse is afraid of some FHs potentially having sex with a horse then he needs to ask himself if the horse has the same understanding of love as he does. I can just guess that that is not the case. But who knows. So that doesn't change my mind on FHing. It still is about the horse same as you having an affair with a married woman. If she seriously would not like to make her husband feel bad than she wouldn't be in an affair that isn't forced upon her. Same goes for the horse. Does it feel bad about having sex with a different human? No? So why should she not have that sexual intercourse? Potentially leading a horse to be a one-man-mare is more egoistic than the stranger that developes emotions too. Two individuals' happiness is potentially better than one individual's happiness.
So if I had the property (owning something doesn't mean anything at all to me as long as others treat it with a bit of respect) to live with a mare I loved I would be okay with strangers that engage in intercourse with my mare as long as she doesn't get hurt. I would be afraid of people that hurt her but that can happen without sexual context too. So emotionally I would be stressed but my mind says me that you can't hate on people that just want to be a bit closer to horses than usual and aren't able to do that legally. People need to stop claiming ownership of their partners in the partnership itself. Your partner isn't obliged to be yours but you should be thankful when he is.
Still it is funny how /u/30-30 seems to try to make any arguments against him worthless based on practical experience with horses of which some don't even are something you need to know at all. A flawless technocrat. How dare we talking about topics like how we could stop the war in Syria when we didn't even witnessed it with our own eyes?
PS: I find it somewhat funny talking about the illegal trespassing when you get into jail for having sex with horses anyway.
Oh boy, oh boy....you just went full retard if you ask me. First, it´s not the horse´s decision, as you presume.It´s always the fencehopper´s decision to interact with a horse...horses are all trained to accept humans to some degree. If they were hostile towards humans, they would never be kept. What a fencehopper does is taking advantage of that fact....that´s why you seldom hear about FHs being kicked, but it occurs more often than you think. Of course, no FH will ever tell that he has been kicked of bitten by his oh so beloved horsie.... Speaking about "love"...don´t you mistake love for sexual needs here? How much does a FH know about the character of a horse he only sees when it´s dark, and only for a few minutes or as long as he lasts?
"Anyone that harms on purpose".....yeah, sure. But what about those who do harm without purpose? Those who do harm because they basically know nothing about horses in general? Harm is harm, regardless if you do it out of evil intent or plain dumbassness. And: Yes, I can be sure that I do not harm my mare. I live with her for over twenty years now and know her from scratch. I also know how to identify if she´s feeling good...like shiny fur, bright eyes and so on. I know her behavior and even the slightest change will catch my attention. "The FH must act to minimize the damage..." WTF? If damage is possible, the FH has to stay the hell outta the stables/pastures...are you really thinking what you type? Comparing fencehopping to cheating on a human partner is silly.Horses aren´t humans. And by the way: horses are naturally monogamous. A herd consists of several mares, but only ONE stallion; he´s the only one to mate with the mares. Only immature colts are tolerated by him, when they become mature, he will drive them off the herd, once and for all. So, a mare is used to monogamy, it´s her natural relationship scenario. You don´t know shit about horses, right? Oh, please tell me how dressage riding is a risk. I´d agree on showjumping and military/cross country riding, but dressage is nothing more than refining the natural movement of horses and in the 15 years of being active in tournaments myself, I never have heard of a case where the horse was injured by doing dressage lessons...well, if the rider is responsibly training the horse and refrains from putting his success in tournaments before the horses wellbeing. Riding is less risky than martial arts, football (suck it ,´muricans, it´s NOT called soccer!^^) or even ballet dancing.
You are a total nutjob if you think that you can keep horses without gathering knowledge on several different things BEFORE. And the most reliable way to get the needed knowledge is a riding school. If you don´t know things like feeding or training horses properly, you will definitely do harm to your horse. Horses cannot be kept like goldfish, they need a certain amount of training; usually, they will get sick when held in a small pasture only. They will very quickly develop malnutrition symptoms which you should be able to identify ASAP. You can´t just read a book and buy a horse, man. Without the basics, you will kill it in no time, I swear. Without experience, you will become one of those dickheads keeping his malnourished horse (btw: you NEVER keep a horse alone. Horses are herd animals and when there´s no other being to accompany the horse, it soon will develop things like hospitalism (German: Weben), swallowing air (German: Koppen) and other very serious problems.
Finally: I find it funny how /u/DerErzbaronGomez denies to realize that he has no experience with horses and therefor is endangering any future animal he will buy. I find it funny how he refuses to learn all the necessary stuff you have to know to ensure the horses wellbeing. But, anyway, who needs a driver´s licence, who needs to learn the traffic rules and reglementations...me just sits in tha car and vrooomm, vrooomm....^^
As a horse owner, you have responsibilities. If you´re not capable to live up to them, you better leave it all as a fantasy of yours. There´s already too many of your kind, without any basic knowledge but a head full of BS.
P.S.: And I find it somewhat funny you don´t realize I´m German too....so, no jail, only a fine up to 25000 Euros.But,hey,nevermind...this isn´t the only thing you don´t seem to get right...
A splendid display that your knowledge of horses ends at their "fuckability". Invading a foreign pasture/stable and disturbing the horses resting phase can lead to a STRESS COLIC. The first symptoms of a colic will show up when a FH is long gone. Colics are expensive, a mild colic sums up to vet costs of about 800 Euros, a severe colic can end in the horses death and additional costs of 8000 Euros for surgery in a horse clinic; you have to pay them regardless of the suregy´s success. There are roughly 10 % of horses who are sensitive to resting phase interruptions. The can develop ulcers, can become narcoleptic and, as I said, can get a colic from being forced to raise up quickly because someone tries to "make love" to them. They even can be allergic to human proteins. As a FH, you won´t be around long enough to see what you have done. You won´t have to pay for treatment, you won´t have to deal with the consequences as a FH. The one left behind with a sick horse, the one left with huge bills from the vet is the owner.
What nags me the most: If YOU don´t see any harm, then there definitely is no harm, right? How much experience do you have with horses? What level are your riding skills, how much do you know about taking care of a horse? Have you ever had riding lessons? I bet that´s not the case. Your only interest seems to be to fuck them. But horses need more than a dick...they need owners capable of providing them with ANYTHING needed.Proper training, enough experience to identify illnesses like colics, bad teeth etc.
A FH doesn´t need that, he´s good to go with reading some "how tos"...the unpleasant crap is the owner´s problem, right? Expenses for food, the farrier, vet, dewormings, the work involved, the time....
Finally: You probably never owned a horse in your life. How audaciously stupid of you to judge owners without having walked a few miles in THEIR boots.What arrogance you display here is fantastic. All my other points have been summarized quite well by /u/battlecrops. Maybe you should get off your high horse (pun intended) and realize what horseownership really means. Hint: Your "more of a caretaker than an owner" approach is idealistic...and plain crap far from any reality.But go on, buy a horse or two yourself...we´ll see if you can live up to all the stuff involved, especially the financial sacrifices...