How does someone deal with this? (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2015-10-04 20:42:19 by [deleted]

[deleted]

actuallynotazoophile ok, I lied 4 points on 2015-10-04 21:12:17

If they flat out asked me that question I'd play dumb. If they continued to press for an answer I'd throw it back in their face and call them a sicko for even having those thoughts. put them on the defensive a bit. Unless of course I knew them in which case I'd be a bit more sensitive but I'd still imply that they're a bit odd for thinking those things.

Its a bit of a shitty and sneaky thing to do but when the only other option is to give them some evidence youre an animal rapist (their thoughts not mine) you dont have much choice.

ursusem 1 point on 2015-10-05 06:45:30

Yes, it is a problem for people to know that maybe we may feel in that way about animals. It is a problem because people think it is a kind of evil thing in our current times. People are very ignorant about the topic. Our lives could potentially be ruined if people knew. So we can't be "out" about it. But it is such a shame to have to say, "god no I'm not like that what are you crazy?!" When we react in that way I think we sew a seed that says that no sane person would ever be attracted to animals- because we retort and act like we think it is so horrible (when really we are basically in favor of it and do have such feelings, I feel somewhat proud of my zoophilic feelings I believe that they are something to be proud of). It's like being Peter denying Jesus... the rooster is crowing, ya know?

actuallynotazoophile ok, I lied 1 point on 2015-10-05 16:47:33

yeah I see what youre saying. If I lived solely in the moment I would probably be a bit more 'out there' about my zooness. The trouble comes when one thinks about ones future. You cant take back what's already been said so when you go ahead and get a dog in the future what you said in the past has a chance of coming back to haunt you.

At the moment It's not a chance I'm willing to take.

incognito-cognition 1 point on 2015-10-15 11:04:00

Unfortunately it seems it's not a chance MOST people with something to lose are willing to take. So the impression continues to be reinforced that it's only the lowest common denominator and/or people doing something obvious enough to get in trouble with the law who "come forward" (everyone else steps back).

On the other hand, some people (including, I think, yourself) can at least be fairly vocal, anonymously spreading the word online, which is positive.

actuallynotazoophile ok, I lied 1 point on 2015-10-15 21:15:48

thanks, but I dont think I really do anything at all to spread the word online. I will of course talk amongst zoos and other interested people on here and a few other places but my outreach to regular users of the internet is pretty much zero. The reason I dont reach out more is because I dont feel its my place to force my online presence upon people. Just because I am a zoo doesn't mean everyone I interact with on the internet needs to know that. In fact, only a tiny percent of people need to know, in my opinion of course.

Its true that it seems most zoos arent willing to out themselves for the good of the zoo-cause, but can you really blame them? At the moment, there is so much bad press out there that if even a group of zoos came out (or even zoo-sympathisers) and tried to change the publics opinion they would be absolutely crucified. The public and various animal rights groups would then put pressure on the government to charge these people of animal abuse and all kinds of shitty fallout would occur sadly in part to make themselves look better. What we do or fantasise about doing is still far too taboo for society to be accept.

Thats my view of what would happen at the moment and yes it's pretty dim. But I do think that at some point in the future we will be taken more seriously than we are now. At the moment we're just the risqué joke you tell to friends at the pub after a few beers simply because 99% of the population doesn't know we actually do exist. When zoosexuality is studied as a true sexual attraction then hopefully there will be some infrastructure put in place to help us and people with these feelings, but until then the only 'solution' the public has for us is to anonymously tell us to kill ourselves on the comments of 'news' articles (dont do that btw). Obviously the real solution is to realise that owning a dog, kissing a dog, snuggling a dog and even saying you love your dog are all legal. Its only what you do behind closed doors thats actually able to get you in trouble.

At the moment my opinion on this whole situation is that its better the devil you know.

incognito-cognition 1 point on 2015-10-16 23:43:16

I didn't say that I blamed such people, only that it perpetuates a bad situation. I agree there's no magic bullet, and I'm just as much in the closet as anyone else if not more so. But it's frustrating to watch misinformation get spread around, and result in more problems that will some day (if ever) need to get un-done.

zoozooz 6 points on 2015-10-04 21:55:34

I'm not good at dealing with this. I was asked once by someone who knows at least a little bit that I somewhat like furries, and I just stared at him and shook my head a little and went back to talking about what we talked about before. He likely suspects it, but whatever, I don't really care what people suspect.

or I am somebody who is into objectively sick things (and therefore it would be right for me to be rebuked and despised by society) or...?

That is not true. Everyone deserves to be happy and accepted. At least as long as they do no intentional harm. You are empathic and considerate. If society rebukes wonderful people like you just because you are a bit different, the problem lies within society, not within you. Who decides what is "objectively" sick? I am not aware of such an authority. Would it "still" be sick if the majority of people somehow had always been attracted to other species? Is it only numbers? Where does it start? Where does it end?

How can we know whether this thing is a mental illness or is objectively sick or is even an alternate sexual orientation like being gay?

It's just a case of definitions. Miletski wrote:

IS THERE A SEXUAL ORIENTATION TOWARD ANIMALS?

This was the basic research question for my study. The definition of “ sexual orientation” was adapted from Francoeur (1991) in his discussion of homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality. According to this definition, sexual orientation consists of three interrelated aspects: (1) affectional orientation — who or what we bond with emotionally; (2) sexual fantasy orientation — with whom or what we fantasize having sex; and (3) erotic orientation — with whom or what we prefer to have sex. The participants in the current study were asked a variety of questions throughout the questionnaire in an attempt to gather some information about these three major aspects of their relations to animals.

[...]

The findings of this question, supported by the above related questions, clearly indicate that different people have different levels of sexual inclination toward animals. “ Is there a sexual orientation toward non- human animals?” — yes, so it appears. This study did not provide the prevalence rate for the people who have this sexual orientation, nor did it provide the causes for having such a sexual orientation. However, it very clearly shows that some people (the majority of the participants in the current study) have feelings of love and affection for their animals, have sexual fantasies about them, and admit they are sexually attracted to them.

Sexual orientation, as we know it, can be fluid and changing with time and circumstances. People are not “ black or white.” We can place people on all levels of the Kinsey scale, even when we apply this scale to sexual orientation toward animals. It is logical to assume that the majority of the human race will be placed around the zero point of this Kinsey-like scale (sexual inclination exclusively with human beings), but the current study shows that there are some humans whose place on this Kinsey-like scale is definitely not zero. In fact, there are some (probably very few) individuals whose place on this scale would be the other extreme (6=sexual inclination exclusively with animals).

I have brought this up in a discussion on reddit once and then someone complained that she didn't use the "right" definition for sexual orientation and Francoeur's is supposedly outdated and all wrong.

Tl;dr: It will be a sexual orientation as soon as the majority of experts in the field accept it as such. Right now it just is what it is. Poorly understood and poorly defined.

It's no real consolation, but I still think it's noteworthy that interspecies sex has always been occurring in most (?) animal species: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-reproductive_sexual_behavior_in_animals#Inter-species_sex. Whether some of them have a real sexual preference for animals of the other species... Who knows? But it may suggest that the sexual attraction is not some strange deviance born out of the human psyche, but something that can occur all over nature.

Why would one be attracted to another species? What reproductive purpose does that serve? It must be a perversion because why would a normal psychology find attraction in another species?

You could really ask the same thing about homosexuality. There are these theories about group selection and how it may be beneficial to have family members who do not have children of their own, but then why homosexuality instead of asexuality?

We do not have final answers, but it's probably because nature doesn't have a masterplan. Things are the way they are because they just happen to work that way so far.

ursusem 2 points on 2015-10-05 06:53:31

I care about what people suspect about me if they could be a potential threat against how I want to live my life. Would they report me to authorities? Would they gossip about me with people? Perhaps people would be hostile toward me then. I don't know what I might be doing in the future- I don't want anyone barricading me from animals!!

HeartBeatOfTheBeast Hoof and Claw 2 points on 2015-10-04 22:36:15

You really need to trust the person to tell them. You need to trust them without a doubt. Because you posted on reddit asking for our opinion I don't think you trust the other person well enough to tell them your secret. Be safe and don't tell.

IDuckMyFog bitchin' 5 points on 2015-10-05 03:28:23

Holy shit, use paragraphs dude!

But seriously, I think the a mental illness is only a trait that causes negative impact to someone. Mainstream disaproval of an act in society does not make it "objectively sick." At one time homosexuality was a mental illness and almost universally decried (and still is in some parts of the world). Is it objectively sick?

On the subject of the reproductive purpose of cross-species sex, I can't really tell... but let's just say almost everything humans have done for the past millennium served absolutely no direct biological purpose whatsoever and leave it at that.

I don't know how I'd react if someone asked me about my sexual "idiosyncrasies." I have little to no interest in humans. I have never dated or had any kind of non-platonic relation with a human. At my age, I think it's normal for people to already suspect something is "off" with me. This will probably become even more of a problem when I wind up living alone with a big dog.

Cyenawe 7 points on 2015-10-05 08:35:42

Zoosexuality isn't "objectively" sick, it's "subjectively" sick. The taboo relating to it is entirely on society. Some nonhuman animals do take part in interspecies sex for various reasons. Anthropocentrism is a real problem in society, and is one of the 3 leading arguments against zoosexuality.

Zoosexuality is exactly where homosexuality was in the early 1900s. Originally people, even scientists, thought homosexuality was an illness. It got the same knee jerk reaction zoosexuality does now. People were ostracized at best, some were locked up in institutions, others were kept hidden away by their families. Ghandi actually said something that perfectly illustrates the progression of a "strange new phenomena" like any non-hetero sexuality.

“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”

You can see this very clearly in the LGBT struggle, and the recent victory for them in the US. Right now Zoos are in the ridicule stage, and it will probably last for along time yet, but I suspect eventually society will put on it's big boy pants, so some serious, unbiased study, and come to the conclusion that we are a sexuality like any other....then the fight begins.

As for people making comments like you mentioned, I haven't had it happen to me, not really anyway. But I've planned out what to do if it does happen. I don't plan to lie, I would rather be true to me, and live a good life than put on a facade. So I won't throw zeta glitter in their face and shout my zoosexuality from the rooftops, but if anyone asks if I'm attracted to animals in THAT way, I'll say "Yeah. Some of them."

Susitar Canidae 3 points on 2015-10-05 13:01:14

I've told some people... some of them I told as a teen, before I understood exactly how taboo zoophilia is. I thought it was more on the level of having an unusual kink, so while I didn't tell everyone, I did tell some people. Because of my young age, if some of them asked me again about it now, I could always tell them it was just a phase.

I do think zoophilia is difficult to live with. I don't think it's a mental illness, not any more than other sexual preferences. I think the same mechanics that make people like whatever they like, also creates zoophilia. I don't know, genetics, ethology, psychology? It seems so weird to classify some preferences as mentally ill just because of whether it is acceptable in society to act on it. Like, even if I think sex with children is wrong and harmful, I still don't call pedophilia mental illness. Just a sexual preference that needs to stay in fantasy.

Anyway, I'm getting off-topic...

Find people you really, really trust. I've found some people I can trust with this. Everything does feel easier when someone you like listens and tells you "it's not your fault, you're not ill, you're a good person".

But until you can feel that level of trust, I'd advice you not to tell. At least not if bestiality is illegal where you live.

incognito-cognition 1 point on 2015-10-15 11:05:36

Any suggestions on how to find people one really, really trusts?

Susitar Canidae 1 point on 2015-10-15 12:38:08

A good friend or partner since many years back, and you test the waters with other personal stuff before. You can you discuss personal matters, such as relationship problems, feelings, etc with that person and not fear that they will gossip or judge you? If so, they are a trustworthy person.

A person who judges others in front of you ("I can't believe those people, can you?") might judge you too if you cross whatever boundaries they have. Be careful.

incognito-cognition 1 point on 2015-10-16 23:44:47

Right, but assuming you don't have any such person in your life today, any suggestions on finding one?

Susitar Canidae 1 point on 2015-10-17 00:02:23

The same way you find friends or lovers in general? Go to places, meet people, talk to them, take your time.

incognito-cognition 1 point on 2015-10-17 23:08:10

Since very few of the people I've met have proven to be friendly (or even neutral) about the topic, I was hoping for a little more specific advice than simply "go meet people." I can figure that much out on my own. :P

But maybe it's a better subject for a separate post.

Crazy_ManMan Not a zoo, but a friend. 1 point on 2015-10-09 03:50:18

Coming from somebody who is not a zoophile, I really do not see why it should be considered a mental illness. A mental illness is defined by the DSM as something that causes the person distress or something like that (sorry rusty on my definition) and really the animal and human both gain from the relationship, so really it is more symbiotic than anything else. People are attracted to many things that have no evolutionary gain, breast that are too big to be practical in survival, bodies that are so skinny they could not actually bear children, I watched a show about a real person who is literally attracted to a concrete wall and considers it their boyfriend and others such as myself simply have no sexual attraction to anything (asexual). Sexual attraction is complexe and much of what is and should be considered a mental illness is subject to cultural influence quite heavily. I really can not think of a good reason to be against sexual actions with animals. I mean the only real reason people are is because for some reason people think sex is super special and different than all other actions, when really it is just another action if you ask me. Holds only the amount of value one thinks it does.

As far as questioning goes, I am not a zoophile so I can not say for sure, but I am an open book and do not believe in lying (both a waste of time in my belief and for psychological reasons is very difficult for me), so if they asked I would just be honest. Might not go over well for me if I were a zoophile, but I am who I am, and nothing they can do to me will change that.

ursusem 1 point on 2015-10-09 05:19:17

Here's a twist: I feel that sex is super special but that is why I want to do it with other species. :) What is special to me is being with other species.

Crazy_ManMan Not a zoo, but a friend. 2 points on 2015-10-10 03:18:01

I have nothing against people feeling it is special I guess, it is just people expect everybody else to think it is just as special that it starts to bother me. When it boils down to it most things that bother me are just people pushing their standards on other people especially for illogical reasons. When you break it down to science, sex is very similar to tickling, so one can go and think it is as special as you feel appropriate but I do not like people trying to tell me I should think it is special at all because from a purely logical standpoint it just does not seem to be.

I think I get it for you though. Animals seem to be much more mature about sex than humans overall. Maybe I am wrong, after all I am asexual and do not really even understand 'normal' sex very well from here, but I think I get it a little at least.