We shouldn´t participate in this semantic mumbo-jumbo, trying to suck out of the negative implications

But my only problem is that the antis are trying to paint the picture that these brothels as organized businesses are all over the countries. Just look at the picture in this article: http://www.urdogs.com/at-last-denmark-outlaws-animal-brothels-and-bans-bestiality/ (Actual source for the picture). I only want to point out at first, that this image is dishonest before going on to discuss the actual situation. Because it is not meant as a serious argument in the first place. Its only purpose is to create outrage. Poisoning the well, so rational discussion is poisoned from the beginning. Just read the comments to that article.

As long as we automatically pull out the defense card, we won´t gain any credibility and look like we´re in denial of what lays open, in plain sight. We rather should be fighting against all those who abuse their animals for financial gain.

I've said it a few times already, but you are right: I should say it really every time when talking about animal brothels: I am in favor of laws that bans offering sex with animals for money or other benefits, even privately.

but what truly exists is animal prostitution

Here is another fun semantic argument for you.

Prostitution is the business or practice of engaging in sexual relations in exchange for payment[1][2] or some other benefit. Prostitution is sometimes described as commercial sex.

Animals aren't prostitutes, because they don't sell sex for money. The animals themselves are the trade goods offered by a legal owner. Therefore I'd say the correct term is sex slavery and not prostitution.

Yes, a "professional animal brothel" may not exist, but what truly exists is animal prostitution.

That's all what I was going to say with my comment. I didn't intend to deny animal prostitution. Of course there are some people in private who take money for it, you can find a bunch on Beastforum.

[deleted]

http://www.eurofurence.org/EF21/policies/roc

For safety reasons it is not allowed to bring dogs, cats or other animals into your hotel room or any of the convention event areas.

That's everything you can find on this. But it certainly makes sense.

If you are talking about Eurofurence, then yes, I am sure it is real. I participate in both zoophile and furry communities and I've heard several hints from different people, that there are two men with one male and one female dog, who sell their dogs for sex. It wouldn't take long to ask around Eurofurence to get their hotel room number. I've even heard details on what you pay, depending on what you want to do with them (But that was about 4 years ago, not that I could remember any prices of that today. I believe giving oral was about 20€, when wanting to stay alone with one dog for one hour was about 200€.)

I sent you a link to the only people I know of who took a look at the truth behind some of the pictures the anti zoo people like to use. The website is made by a zoophile, that is true, but I'm not aware of the website being illegal anywhere.

Secondly this group trying to save this poor girl actually helps dogs

I never doubted that. I just suggested that their methods of raising money may bend the truth a little bit.

there's been several rescue groups that had confirmed cases of animals being sexually assaulted by people

Which is certainly true, but it also remains true that in the case you posted any statement about what happened to this dog is basically speculation.

Thirdly as to why people have such a huge problem with people like you is because damn near every time one of you crawls out of the woodwork it's never someone who grabbed a jar of peanut butter to see if their dog would start licking their crotch(which is gross and weird enough) but it's someone who tries to gut their poor victim first or they break their legs or some shit like that!

Here is where you need to realize that you don't have any statistics. Here are a few pointers: There are many humans who sexually assault other humans and nobody thinks they are representative. Most zoophiles will lead a life where they are very quiet about it (unless they can post anonymously online like me right now) because 1) personal impact like social ostracization or possible discrimination at the workplace 2) it puts the animal in real danger to be out. Word is that the animals that are taken away from zoophiles often end up at shelters and are viewed as "damaged", whether it's true or not, and are thus rather killed than placed somewhere else. We don't really know how much of this is true, but the fear is already enough to keep people quiet.

To me it's quite obvious that the probability of hearing about anyone having done anything sexual with an animal is higher the less care this person has for themselves and the animal (e.g. uploading porn. I'm pretty sure nobody here in this subreddit would do that, yet a significant amount of people who get "caught", do so because they uploaded porn of themselves). And I believe the more careless they are, the higher the probability they are also some form of abusers.

That's where you need to realize that you can't say something like that because you need to consider all the cases you never heard about. And neither you nor I know how many people are in sexual relationships with animals that do no harm whatsoever. To get a glimpse, try reading the books/research of Hani Miletski, Andrea Beetz, Miriam Nasswetter, etc. For example chapter 5 "FINDING SUBJECTS/PARTICIPANTS" in Miletski's book "Understanding Bestiality and Zoophilia" should be enlightening as to zoophiles being secretive unless they know they can trust you. You for example are not a person I would trust about it in real life. And you would likely not suspect it of me, because for some reason people seem to think vegan => animal rights => must be against sex with animals. Which is not really true. Here is an excerpt from Miletski's book where she cites a letter she wrote that might shock you:

I can only go by what my subjects told me: The majority of my subjects love their animal-partner. Some see them as a spouse and will do anything for them. Sexual relations with the animal is an expression of love for them, and if the animal tells them, with it’ s body language, that it is not in the mood for love-making, the majority of my subjects will leave the animal alone. In fact, many of them are members of the Humane Society and other organizations that are taking care of animals.

Yet I had sit there looking at my pup my best friend bounce around like her usual happy self and think about the dog who needs surgery wondering "What sick fuck would do this to that poor dog?

Then there's that other poor baby Beatrice, that poor deaf pup who everyone said was so sweet and friendly but in such horrible pain and so scared died because of her injuries and that was CONFIRMED to have been caused by a person

Ah and zoophiles were an easy target because they won't publicly and openly defend themselves, I see.

Let's say for the sake of argument she was the victim of violent sexual abuse. You see, I wonder the same thing: What kind of monster could do that? I know that I couldn't, even if I wanted to. I don't want to hurt any animals. Do you allege there is a connection between sexual attraction and the desire to inflict harm? I can assure you: There isn't.

I'm not aware of any such studies, but I wonder if we can transfer the conclusion researchers have come to when it comes to human rape (random quote from the first website I found about it):

Myth: The primary motive for rape is impulsive sexual desire.

Fact: Studies show that the major motive for rape is power, not sex. Sex is used as a weapon to inflict pain, violence and humiliation. Most rapists appear to have normal personalities with an abnormal tendency to be aggressive and violent.

I mean, there are many animal abusers who make animals suffer without apparent sexual motive. E.g. the stuff that ends up on /r/rage like recently the people who set a cat on fire. Is it possible that people who violently rape animals do it for a similar reason, instead of the primary motive being that they are sexually attracted to them?

and the thing is still running around free

And I can assure you, if this person came to /r/zoophilia with this story, they would not be welcome here.

now I have to worry about her being dognapped and raped on top of all of that!

And before that you had to worry about her being dognapped and set on fire, just for example. Because nonsexual animal abusers exist, just as sexual animal abusers do. You can either worry about it all the time, or you can take solace in the fact that still they are quite rare and in all likelihood your dogs will never be dognapped by one of them.

Either way, if you read a couple of posts here, there is some controversy about sex with animals that belong to other people without their knowledge, but the general tone is that it's very much discouraged, and then stealing animals and violent sexual abuse that causes this kind of harm is absolutely not tolerated. I understand the need to vent, but you should know that the average /r/zoophilia user will agree with you about how horrible this kind of animal abuse is.

depression

Depression? You have come to the right place. I believe depression is pretty widespread when it comes to zoophiles.

Here is something I wrote recently on tumblr, but they terminated my account. :/

I so know where this kind of thinking comes from. It makes me immensely unhappy as well. Here I am, using water, gas, oil, electrical power, producing waste water, … I’m buying vegetables that have likely been harvested by minimum wage workers, I’m buying electronics that are built from resources mined under inhumane conditions, the profits being often used for some civil war, assembled by overworked and underpaid asian workers, etc. etc. The list goes on and on. I’m a huge resource drain and the resources would be better spend on people who do something useful.

Because what do I give back to society and the world in exchange? Nothing of real value. I don’t improve the happiness of the people around me much. I keep my social contacts minimal because I don’t know how to talk to people. I perceive attempts at conversation of most people to be tiring and I often quickly lose interest. When I make attempts to connect with people it often seems they are more irritated with my attempts at conversations. I feel they would be better off not trying to talk to me. I feel like volunteering somewhere is something I’d like to do, at an animal shelter maybe, or helping fugitives. But then I don’t because I dread working and having to talk with people.

I’m studying computer science at university but I’m not motivated at all, I’m just dragging along from exam to exam. I hope this helps me somehow to one day develop FLOSS software that will improve the world but I don’t feel I’ll ever be good enough at programming to contribute anything meaningful. I’m taking up a spot at university I feel would be better filled by someone more competent than me. Still I cling to the hope that if I myself am not capable to make meaningful contributions, maybe I can still facilitate the work of people who can do that…

I know that I do not want to be responsible for animals being harmed, so I try to adhere to veganism, but I don’t have the strength to be very careful about it. I just can’t care whether the vinegar is cleared with gelatine or if the white sugar is refined with bone char. And even if I did, countless small animals still die from harvesting the grain fields every day anyway. Because I’m giving money to the bakery who gives money to the farmers to do exactly that.

What keeps me going is the prospect of getting one or two dogs and finding purpose in my life to providing them the most happy life I can give them. But I’m terrified that maybe I’ll be bad at it and that I somehow ruin their personalities and that I’m going to be a negative impact on their lives all in all. That in the end they would be better off with someone else.

I often feel that I won’t ever be happy on the back of people who are exploited and suffering. I need to give something back. Make a person happy. Improve a person’s life. That person will be most likely a dog, because I’m a zoophile. I never really felt a connection to people. Sure, I have a zoo internet friend who I feel close to and sex with people is fine. But the concept of real romantic and sexual love towards humans always felt foreign to me. All I know is that I have a strong desire to be with a dog and that I’m happier than ever when I’m with a dog.

So that’s what I’m going to do. Get my own place and a dog. And I need to do it soon, because I don’t know how much longer my pointless life right now matters enough to me to get out of bed every day.