On the one hand, the author is making the argument that because bestiality is bad, and because bestiality happens in the production of meat, you shouldn't eat meat. Lots of issues there. Tsk tsk.
On the other hand, the author is pointing out that real sexual abuse occurs during meat production, and that is a reason to avoid it. If you separate that from sexual contact that is not abusive, there's a kernel of a positive message there. I'm slightly torn even if my former perspective on the piece is likely the intended perspective...
Also, bot in the comments posted a link to here. Prepare of weird conversations.
[deleted] 1 point on 2016-02-01 20:57:17
Wow...the contents of that book look like a big pile of craziness (based on the description) and not the good kind either! It's almost insane in my opinion.
[...] meat-eating or carnism, is an oppressive ideology as noxious as racism. Joy casts meat eating as genocide, comparable to the Holocaust [...] dear lord...
electricfoxx 1 point on 2016-02-01 22:00:54
I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not that kind of crazy.
[deleted] 1 point on 2016-02-02 00:52:46
I'm not big on meat and don't eat a lot of it either but crazy/insane people like that boggle my mind. These people are one of the reasons I start cringing whenever I hear someone talk about vegans/vegetarians. I know only a few are like that but I just can't help it.
zetacolaLoba 4 points on 2016-01-29 03:29:50
What a bizarre line of argument. It's just appeal to emotion at this point. And frankly, it's the wrong kind of emotions.
And as if going vegetarian would solve anything. Cow milk and egg production, among others, go hand in hand with the meat industry.
Soveee 2 points on 2016-01-29 05:27:26
It's kind of disturbing to me that most zoophiles are okay with eating meat. I don't think the ethical arguments are related, but I just don't know how you can maintain a sense of self like that. "I fuck animals because I love them! I would never abuse them! nom nom nom"
[deleted] 3 points on 2016-01-29 06:00:38
This is why I finally became vegan. I was harshly reminded by synchronicity that it didn't make sense.
My marefriend who unfortunately wasn't my own horse was sold to slaughter many years ago and I only found out after the fact so I couldn't do anything. I've mostly gotten over it but every now and then it comes back to me and I have a crappy few days.
Then a few years ago, over the span of a couple weeks, I had one of those episodes, I was reading a discussion between a vegan zoo and some non-vegan zoos, and my omnivore roommates were being asses about me recently having become vegetarian and them having bought horse meat they wanted me to try.
Looking back I'm surprised how much it took to make me go vegan. I probably would have way back when my marefriend was killed if I'd been exposed to vegan food back then to know it was even an option.
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 3 points on 2016-01-29 07:43:39
I like eating meat, I love some species of animals, you can do both. I dont eat the meat of animals I love, simple. I would love to buy ethical meat which was given a loving home and raised on a small farm, but I like being frugal more than I like feeling good about animal welfare. I dunno why that is, its just the way it is.
zoozooz 0 points on 2016-01-29 09:52:53
a loving home
Where still at the moment of your birth it is already planned when you are going to be killed and your body is to be sold for profit.
ethical meat
In my view there is no such thing, until it can be grown directly.
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 3 points on 2016-01-29 12:37:16
I like eating meat, I love some species of animals, you can do both. I dont eat the meat of animals I love, simple
That's about how I think about it too.
In my view there is no such thing, until it can be grown directly.
I think you can already buy this, it's just been prohibitively expensive. It's not going to be that way for long though.
dogsrgreat 2 points on 2016-01-30 16:49:25
Where still at the moment of your birth it is already planned when you are going to be killed and your body is to be sold for profit.
Yes, but if I was an animal I wouldn't care about my fate at birth or know that I was destined to die one day, and the same would go for all my animal friends... Certain types of suffering (fear of the abstract future) are really not available to animals and are therefore not relevant as animal welfare issues.
If we euthanise a dog for mauling a child, that is not a punishment, nor a deterrent for other dogs, nor is it really an animal welfare issue. The dog is there, the dog is not there, it doesn't live on death row expecting to be executed and living with the fear.
By contrast, fear of the abstract future is why I oppose the death penalty for humans. I have enough to worry about with robbers and murderers running around without having to deal with the possiblity that the state may also decide to kill me at some point, on probably bogus charges... so anticipation of the future is an issue that makes the death penalty for humans wrong but is not in itself a reason not to kill animals...
I don't want to trivialise this, killing things is a big deal. I have killed and eaten much of my own meat over the last few years (that or roadkill) and I have to say that it is almost enough to put me off eating meat.
However, the animals that I think are sexy (dogs) are not the ones I am planning on eating. Same goes for people; fancy them and won't be eating any of them.
[deleted] 1 point on 2016-01-31 04:41:27
I agree on the fear of the abstract future point, but that still doesn't make it right.
Killing them for food still robs them of much of their natural life.
dogsrgreat 2 points on 2016-01-31 10:36:02
Fair enough, except that their lives, sadly, are not really "natural" at all. Here the Biblical notion of "dominion over all things", as offensive as that may be, is today an apt description of our power over other living creatures. We decide what can be born and what can live with us on this planet... not saying that is how it should be but that it is how it is, that is the responsibility we now have to deal with.
More to the point, if we didn't raise and exploit sheep, cows and pigs, we would have (need) slightly more arable land to feed people and could afford quite a lot more wilderness (the Amazon would still be intact) because animal farming uses a lot of land per calorie. Sheep cows and pigs as we know them would become extinct in most parts of the world, though perhaps we could do a Jurassic Park job on the Aurox, and pigs would probably go feral quite well and cross breed with wild boar... The total numbers of sheepy, cowy, piggy things would be much smaller than today.. but they would perhaps be free... provided we reintroduced some top predators to control the numbers and/or took up hunting... otherwise the grazers would reduce their own environment to desert and the only population control would be plagues of parasites and diseases :(
For all that, I respect people's decision to be veggie or vegan, as the animal welfare and environmental arguments are pretty strong overall.
/ramble
AXwoofExclusive 1 point on 2016-02-01 16:15:56
I dont eat the meat of animals I love, simple.
Yeah, I guess it's simple for dog and horse lovers. But if someone is into cows but loves beef too, that will probably make them question their lifestyle...
zoozooz 2 points on 2016-01-29 10:05:14
Can someone explain to me what I am supposed to feel horrified about when watching this clip in the article? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-G_pF6cb0. Sure, he is confined to a small area, but apart from that I fail to see how this procedure is supposedly so abusive.
Not that there isn't a lot of abuse in the industry, but in this particular instance...?
wright-oneursidae canidae pantherinae 5 points on 2016-01-29 17:49:33
... I fail to see how this procedure is supposedly so abusive.
that man is touching that piggy's wiener! ew!
that's why it's "abusive". rolls eyes
wright-oneursidae canidae pantherinae 3 points on 2016-01-29 17:50:26
what a ridiculous piece of "journalism"... i should know better than to read crap like this. all it does is make my blood boil at how ignorant people can be.
/r/zoophilia archive
On the one hand, the author is making the argument that because bestiality is bad, and because bestiality happens in the production of meat, you shouldn't eat meat. Lots of issues there. Tsk tsk.
On the other hand, the author is pointing out that real sexual abuse occurs during meat production, and that is a reason to avoid it. If you separate that from sexual contact that is not abusive, there's a kernel of a positive message there. I'm slightly torn even if my former perspective on the piece is likely the intended perspective...
Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows: An Introduction to Carnism
Also, bot in the comments posted a link to here. Prepare of weird conversations.
Wow...the contents of that book look like a big pile of craziness (based on the description) and not the good kind either! It's almost insane in my opinion.
[...] meat-eating or carnism, is an oppressive ideology as noxious as racism. Joy casts meat eating as genocide, comparable to the Holocaust [...] dear lord...
I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not that kind of crazy.
I'm not big on meat and don't eat a lot of it either but crazy/insane people like that boggle my mind. These people are one of the reasons I start cringing whenever I hear someone talk about vegans/vegetarians. I know only a few are like that but I just can't help it.
What a bizarre line of argument. It's just appeal to emotion at this point. And frankly, it's the wrong kind of emotions.
And as if going vegetarian would solve anything. Cow milk and egg production, among others, go hand in hand with the meat industry.
It's kind of disturbing to me that most zoophiles are okay with eating meat. I don't think the ethical arguments are related, but I just don't know how you can maintain a sense of self like that. "I fuck animals because I love them! I would never abuse them! nom nom nom"
This is why I finally became vegan. I was harshly reminded by synchronicity that it didn't make sense.
My marefriend who unfortunately wasn't my own horse was sold to slaughter many years ago and I only found out after the fact so I couldn't do anything. I've mostly gotten over it but every now and then it comes back to me and I have a crappy few days.
Then a few years ago, over the span of a couple weeks, I had one of those episodes, I was reading a discussion between a vegan zoo and some non-vegan zoos, and my omnivore roommates were being asses about me recently having become vegetarian and them having bought horse meat they wanted me to try.
Looking back I'm surprised how much it took to make me go vegan. I probably would have way back when my marefriend was killed if I'd been exposed to vegan food back then to know it was even an option.
I like eating meat, I love some species of animals, you can do both. I dont eat the meat of animals I love, simple. I would love to buy ethical meat which was given a loving home and raised on a small farm, but I like being frugal more than I like feeling good about animal welfare. I dunno why that is, its just the way it is.
Where still at the moment of your birth it is already planned when you are going to be killed and your body is to be sold for profit.
In my view there is no such thing, until it can be grown directly.
That's about how I think about it too.
I think you can already buy this, it's just been prohibitively expensive. It's not going to be that way for long though.
Yes, but if I was an animal I wouldn't care about my fate at birth or know that I was destined to die one day, and the same would go for all my animal friends... Certain types of suffering (fear of the abstract future) are really not available to animals and are therefore not relevant as animal welfare issues.
If we euthanise a dog for mauling a child, that is not a punishment, nor a deterrent for other dogs, nor is it really an animal welfare issue. The dog is there, the dog is not there, it doesn't live on death row expecting to be executed and living with the fear.
By contrast, fear of the abstract future is why I oppose the death penalty for humans. I have enough to worry about with robbers and murderers running around without having to deal with the possiblity that the state may also decide to kill me at some point, on probably bogus charges... so anticipation of the future is an issue that makes the death penalty for humans wrong but is not in itself a reason not to kill animals...
I don't want to trivialise this, killing things is a big deal. I have killed and eaten much of my own meat over the last few years (that or roadkill) and I have to say that it is almost enough to put me off eating meat.
However, the animals that I think are sexy (dogs) are not the ones I am planning on eating. Same goes for people; fancy them and won't be eating any of them.
I agree on the fear of the abstract future point, but that still doesn't make it right.
Killing them for food still robs them of much of their natural life.
Fair enough, except that their lives, sadly, are not really "natural" at all. Here the Biblical notion of "dominion over all things", as offensive as that may be, is today an apt description of our power over other living creatures. We decide what can be born and what can live with us on this planet... not saying that is how it should be but that it is how it is, that is the responsibility we now have to deal with.
More to the point, if we didn't raise and exploit sheep, cows and pigs, we would have (need) slightly more arable land to feed people and could afford quite a lot more wilderness (the Amazon would still be intact) because animal farming uses a lot of land per calorie. Sheep cows and pigs as we know them would become extinct in most parts of the world, though perhaps we could do a Jurassic Park job on the Aurox, and pigs would probably go feral quite well and cross breed with wild boar... The total numbers of sheepy, cowy, piggy things would be much smaller than today.. but they would perhaps be free... provided we reintroduced some top predators to control the numbers and/or took up hunting... otherwise the grazers would reduce their own environment to desert and the only population control would be plagues of parasites and diseases :(
For all that, I respect people's decision to be veggie or vegan, as the animal welfare and environmental arguments are pretty strong overall.
/ramble
I dont eat the meat of animals I love, simple.
Yeah, I guess it's simple for dog and horse lovers. But if someone is into cows but loves beef too, that will probably make them question their lifestyle...
Can someone explain to me what I am supposed to feel horrified about when watching this clip in the article? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh-G_pF6cb0. Sure, he is confined to a small area, but apart from that I fail to see how this procedure is supposedly so abusive.
Not that there isn't a lot of abuse in the industry, but in this particular instance...?
that man is touching that piggy's wiener! ew!
that's why it's "abusive". rolls eyes
what a ridiculous piece of "journalism"... i should know better than to read crap like this. all it does is make my blood boil at how ignorant people can be.