There´s one simple answer: because reality forces us to turn towards more serious and unpleasant things. Yes, we could turn away from all of this, pretending that everything´s happy and shit...but with a "feelgood" attitude, we won´t survive long.
Yes, we all could tell each other how nice and pleasant it is to have an animal partner, but wouldn´t this be extemely shortsighted when at the same time things get worse and worse? Europe almost entirely outlawed our orientation, in the US, NH will be the 41st state to outlaw it in the beginning of 2017, even South America´s countries have joined the process.
Let´s face the facts: being a zoophile is a depressing thing at the moment. Opposition grows stronger and stronger, the best progress we can hope for is not being pushed back even more, with our backs already against the wall.
If you don´t see this, if you really want to fade it all out just to get your "happiness and joy" back, then you definitely are wrong in any zoo forum that discusses and tries to find solutions to the problems we all face nowadays.
"If you don´t turn to politics, politics will turn towards you"...our momentarily situation is a result of placing "happiness and joy" before debates. Politics has turned onto us in the last few years...now is not the time to retreat in cozy, comfy dialogues, it´s time to adress important things.
zetacolaLoba 7 points on 2016-03-06 23:43:58
It's amazing to see the complete 180 you did in the last few months.
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2016-03-07 00:57:53
It´s not a 180...I still think that we shouldn´t force us upon the public. But I also think it´s necessary for our survival to examine everything that´s going on outside our "zoo world".
We need to keep the balance between these two extremes in order to be able to give a flying fuck where appropriate and react when action is really needed. I still abhor the idea of an open "zoo organisation" like ZETA, but I see that we desperately need some higher structure within our scene. Either way, we can´t just go on like this or we´ll soon be completely marginalized.
The new laws that have recently been installed still don´t have a real effect on cautious and smart zoophiles. But I think that we should start preparing our grounds for the day when new scientific proof is unveiled and the general atmosphere for zoos iisn´t so goddamn poisonous anymore. We need to do the homework now so we´re fit and well prepared once the possibility for an improvement of our situation arises. No "teaching the public", but restructuring our own scene, weeding out the unfit and ill minded ones amongst us. We all know our struggle is David vs. Goliath....we better make sure that the one tiny stone in our slingshot really,REALLY counts...right?
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 3 points on 2016-03-07 08:24:00
But I think that we should start preparing our grounds... restructuring our own scene, weeding out the unfit and ill minded ones amongst us.
ah, that explains why you've been telling everyone who comes here questioning themselves (as the majority of zoos do at some point) that they're flat out, without a doubt not a zoo. To deliberately misguide people to further your own cause is wrong. whether you like it or not, some people are going to be new here, and are going to be zoos. If you told me the only reason I was a zoo is cause I watched porn a few years ago I'd laugh in your face, but to the people still asking questions about themselves thats enough to give them another huge mental setback on their way to accepting themselves whatever sexuality they end up being.
If you keep kicking people out of your imaginary zoo community fortress eventually there wont be anyone to stand beside you.
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2016-03-07 14:50:09
Wait a minute...I don´t "kick out" people. If your interest in zoophilia is so small you are set back by me posting a few lines in here, then you probably "don´t have it inside you".
We all are suffering from the results of being too "tolerant", anything negative that has happened in the last few years can be traced back to this simple truth. Quantity has outrun quality, a kind of "recruitment spirit" seems to prevail. Again, I have to quote one of the original zeta rules: "Don´t talk ´em in, talk ´em out." What do you think this means?
I think you´re entrapped in this hug box mentality. But this mentality to invite everyone in is what has caused the public to judge zoophilia as another fetish, a threat to society. If you analyze the arguments of the antis, you can easily see the connection between our "come in and try out" attitude and the increasing number of persons caught. We don´t need an army of "zoos", what we really need is genuine and sincere zoos aware of all the responsibilities involved in this orientation.
If you can´t see the connection between your misguided attitude and the shitload of setbacks for our entire community, then you must be blind. By the way, who says I´m "misguiding" people? Maybe it´s you and your kind that´s misguiding new aspirants...by being too accepting and "tolerant", it is plausible that you are the one creating fencehoppers, amateur animal porn producers and all the other things that keep our public image and reputation below zero.
It was your hug box mentality that was predominant the last ten to fifteen years...just take a look around you...where are we now? Has anything improved for us? No, things became worse and worse, we´re losing ground each and every day.
The fact that I´m not preaching to the "tolerant" choir is based on my longtime observations of our scene.It is my firm belief that this invitive "tolerance" BS is what has brought us to this point in history where the entire world is installing laws against "zoophilia".
It is my belief that we as a community have surrendered us to the fetishists, the "wanna try outs", the consumeristic attitude.
As I have explained elsewhere, we have become some sort of an internet sex cult, with the brainwashing tactics, the corps mentality, the sacrosanct common beliefs not to be questioned whatsoever. It´s time to break up all the encrusted structures that have turned out to be not only ineffective, but a massive problem in itself. If you don´t agree with me, that´s fine. Unlike you, I don´t feel threatened by different viewpoints and alternate opinions.
And don´t underestimate my sermon, it surely won´t lead to being isolated. I get PMs every now and then supporting my points of view, saying that it was about time someone like me appeared in our scene. I have about fifteen RL true zoo friends sharing my views I´m in constant contact with, some of them accompanying me for more than 20 years now.
I guess you´re just frightened. You shit your pants that all your little beliefs turn out to be wrong in the end. There is and always was a small minority of zoos, true zoos who share my beliefs. The recent setbacks we experience is what brought us to the point of engaging in active resistance of the community´s unquestioned attitude. You all are so quick to blame the oh so evil, ill minded and intolerant society for our status quo...well, we have gone an important and relevant step ahead and ask whether it isn´t truly ourselves who are to blame. Don´t worry about me, even if I end up in total isolation (what is very unlikely as I´ve shown above)...even if I was the only one left, I´ll keep telling the unpleasant and inconvenient truth. You can go on with inviting the metaphorical suicide bombers into your non-fortress zoo community, but stop complaining about the casualities when one of those walking time bombs sets off again....I prefer not to damage my fortress by keeping those out who definitely won´t help our cause.
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 3 points on 2016-03-07 16:45:13
I guess you´re just frightened. You shit your pants that all your little beliefs turn out to be wrong in the end. There is and always was a small minority of zoos, true zoos who share my beliefs.
heh, an ad hominem attack followed by a 'true zoo' statement, really? c'mon man look through my post history and tell me I'm not a zoo.
funny how I've only been part of the zoo community the last few years and you blame me for inviting in the fencehoppers etc.? Where were you and your buddies 20 years ago when the hugbox mentally and persecution of zoos started? And what did you do to stop it then, or now?
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2016-03-07 18:47:42
Where I was? Lintilla, Sleepys, that´s where I was 20 years ago...to be precise, now 25 years ago. i was among those who literally invented the whole "zoo community" shit. I was the one proposing the usage of the greek zeta as "our" symbol. I used to chat with Actaeon, the one with the "Zoo code", I´m one of those pioneers.
What I´ve done to stop persecution? Well, I helped creating the zeta rules to prevent things from getting out of hand as it is now.
Some of my "buddies" also have a very long history of being involved in the community and were part of the early IRC based chats. Your turn, mate....
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 6 points on 2016-03-07 19:38:44
I dont mean this to be rude but is your style of writing the way it is becasue youre angry or becasue you're german? Christ, it comes off so aggressive. I dont understand why you take that tone towards other zoos?
anyway, I will pass on my turn, I've done nothing except try to be welcoming and understanding to other new or unsure zoos who come to this sub asking questions along with chipping in to the discussions that get tossed around between us. I believe simply building a larger network of zoos and supporters will get us the furthest and provide a happier zoo community as well.
Being a zoo isnt an exclusive club. If you want to try and re-live the 90's go ahead, but I doubt many people browsing here know what youre on about.
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2016-03-08 02:28:32
Yeah, we Germans are usually portrayed as rude. But you have to understand that this isn´t rudeness, it´s honesty. I just write what I think and I don´t give a rat´s ass whether someone feels annoyed or attacked by me. I´m just trying to be as honest as possible. Don´t misinterpret me, I´m not aggressive. Well, the most time I´m not...;)
We Germans prefer "rudeness"/honesty over politeness, that´s what our proverbial "German effectiveness" is basically based upon. We want to get things done, no matter what.
So I´ll be honest when I say that there are NO "unsure zoos" around. Either you feel it burning inside you or you don´t have it. My rejective way of replying is well considered and can be compared to what was common practice of the Shaolin monks when new aspirants needed to be evaluated. Before you were granted access to the monastery, your endurance, your dedication was tested by denying access. Only the ones with true will would endure the phase waiting outside the monastery doors, sometimes exposed to rain and snow without shelter. You seen "Fight Club"? Tyler does the same "test of dedication" by insulting the new ones aspiring membership in "Project Chaos". If you´re disencouraged easily, chances are that this isn´t what you really want from the bottom of your heart. "Don´t talk ´em in, talk ´em out" is basically the same concept; it´s done to avoid being overrun by folks who don´t take zoophilia as serious as it should be taken by ALL of us, ALL involved in this.
What happens when we´re too open for anyone, even those who misjudge zoophilia as a sexual playground, can be witnessed by taking a peek into Beastforum. That´s exactly what happens when the only thing needed for being accepted is an itching groin in the presence of any animal.
In many ways, the nineties were ahead of the situation nowadays. There was no organised anti scene and because we were executing a basic "scene hygiene" by fending off most of the ill minded, the public remained very neutral and sometimes even curious about zoophilia. I believe that our "intolerance" back then made it easier to see a genuine orientation in zoophilia instead of a bunch of people "gone full pervo" out of boredom, thrill seeking or porn addiction . I have saved myself a reasonable amount of common sense so I´m still able to see our own scene through the eyes of a normal person and because of that, I can absolutely understand where all the hostility towards us is coming from. We truly make it very hard for the outsiders to identify zoophilia as a genuine sexual orientation when inviting everyone in. We shouldn´t be too surprised by the animosity when we don´t give a shit about society´s doubts and objections.
Tonight,I´ve seen the South Park episode where Butters is forced by PC Principal to fiter Cartman´s Twitter and Yelp comments, creating a "safespace", fending off a dubiously looking character that is executed by hanging at the end of this episode. His name is "Reality". I can only recommend watching this episode and comparing it to our situation right now...what do we want? Creating a comfy "safespace" where no one has to question his "zoophilia"? Or wouldn´t we be better off by avoiding to create a virtual room entirely disconnected to reality and even considering reality an enemy? Your choice...I´ve already made mine...
Real tolerance is NOT a one way street. Remember: We (the zoos) want something from Them (society), not vice versa.
zoozooz 5 points on 2016-03-07 19:59:41
I was the one proposing the usage of the greek zeta as "our" symbol.
Sorry, my point is: No matter what you do, there is always a scene that sees it as just more reason to hate you. The only difference I can see is how much reception and agreement they have among the general population.
Well, I helped creating the zeta rules to prevent things from getting out of hand as it is now.
I actually have a question in regards to that. I have at times tried to google them, but I couldn't actually find a canonical source with google. E.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=zoophilia+%22zeta+rules%22. Just look at that. 1st result: You on reddit. 2nd result: You on reddit. 3rd result: You (I suppose) on beastforum. etc. Comments on an article, a reddit mirror with you again, a tumblr blog, 8chan, ... The only actual result seems to be an angelfire website that has a link "Z.E.T.A.: Rules To Live By". But it's a 404. Well, it's on archive.org, very fitting with an advertisement for the website petakillsanimals.com ran by the CCF, a front for the animal killing industry.
I mean, where are they? The ZETA Verein Website is one of the few static places on the internet where you can actually find something that's called zeta rules...
30-30amator equae 3 points on 2016-03-08 01:52:50
Yes, that´s the entire problem; any website that had the original zeta rules included is offline now. Remember that these rules have been created and published more than 20 years ago, with only a few people who could afford running their own websites. You seem to have stumbled across one of the old sites on angelfire, that´s where my own site once was located. but you see that all this is lost and gone into oblivion and virtual nirvana. "The internet never forgets"...well, it does when providers are sold because commercialism takes over. Fact is, the original zeta rules have been lost and only a few veterans can remember them ; what ZETA offers is nothing more than a corrupted and crippled version, as well as any other website offering less than the TGR (ten golden rules).
there´s one thing I could do: back then in 1991, I had no internet and had to use an Internet cafe to connect to Lintilla and Sleepy´s. I used to scribble down important stuff to prepare myself for discussions next weekend , maybe I´ll have to dive into the mess of my cellar storage space to retrieve these old notes. I´m pretty sure I still have my old sketch blocks I used for taking notes.
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 2 points on 2016-03-07 01:00:57
I'm following up with this despite withdrawing for the most part from this subreddit for similar reasons (I'm sure you read my PM 30-30)
For some of us, we've already fought that fight and between the losses we've accumulated throughout our life, and the opposition and stress associated with the fight, it's too much. That describes me right now.
I feel you deserve praise for your efforts to improve the zoo community, 30-30, but I would caution you too, as I went down much the same road when Willow passed. I pushed zoos I felt were "undesirable" away, I burned a lot of bridges Sometimes, I did things just because the alternative was unacceptable, not because they were wise or good. That alternative was of course, embracing the loss I'd just experienced.
In short, I replaced my sorrow with anger, an anger that was often misdirected and unjustified. I did this to drown out the pain of loss. It did not land me in a good place.
Maybe this isn't you. Maybe you are different. But fast forward 5 years from her death and I'm left with very little happiness and even fewer friends. I burned my world to give her death meaning, ostracized those who may have been good friends because they did not meet my moral standards. I'm banned from 9/10 zoo forums for my actions and regret alone can never heal these wounds.
Maybe this isn't you. Maybe. But I have to write this warning in case some of it rings true. It's a road you don't want to walk.
Peace all,
-Rannoch
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2016-03-07 02:44:36
It´s nice you care for me but you can be assured that I´m not the type of guy burning all the bridges, going berzerk because he has trouble dealing with personal loss. The only thing that has changed for me is the plenty of spare time I have now.
I have quite a good number of zoo friends I´m in constant contact with, some of them being longtime friends from Lintilla, Sleepy´s and Planes of Existence and I even have a zoo roommate I can discuss anything with. They all share my points of view when it comes to the status quo of our scene, so no bridges will be burnt here.
I also have plans for the near future and it won´t be long until I´ll have my own farm. Even if I get banned from every single zoo forum in the world, there´s always a real life I can retreat to.
One thing I surely have to admit: since my mare died to months ago, I feel this internal decay. It´s definitely not good for me to be completely without any contact to my species. But don´t mistake my loss as the reason my narrative becomes more agressive; it always was , but I chose to dedicate my precious time to my mare instead of writing in online forums.
I´m really not that guy who is extroverted to an extent where I want to see the world burn to pay for my loss. I know these mechanisms and try to avoid them as good as I can.
I feel sorry for you and your problems overcoming your loss; if I had to endure 5 years without my species, I´d probably be long dead. I will buy me a new equine partner this year. I simply have no choice, I belong to them. My mare will always be with me, I have her portrait tattooed on my throat, her ashes are sitting right beside me while I´m typing this. I´ll get her neck number branded onto my neck in two weeks, that´s how I deal with my loss.
Yes, I have read your PM...maybe it´s my turn now to hand out advice: stop being down because you lost your partner. After five years, it´s time to regenerate. My mare has formed and shaped me in every aspect. She is with me, she´s always present, she taught me everything. I´m pretty sure you had similar mindaltering experiences with your partner. Although our partners are gone, they are still with us and the worst thing we can do is giving in to depression. My mare always wanted to make me happy as I wanted her to be happy....to honor her, I will seek happiness because she would be very sad to see me down and depressed.Maybe it´s time for you to seek happiness again...to honor what you´ve had five years ago. What if reincarnation is real and your partner is desperately waiting for you , but you´re too busy being down? Five years is a long time... time to turn the pages, don´t you think?
Happiness makes you beautiful. Enduring pain makes you strong. Overcoming pain makes you free.
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 2 points on 2016-03-07 03:45:03
I have numerous medical issues now that prevent a true recovery, (most of them created from an attempt by my parents to "drug the zoo outta me") 30-30, otherwise I would agree completely. I feel that at this point I am a lost cause, I just hope others can learn from my mistakes. I mean, I have trouble even going outside these days... I really don't see myself ever being intimate with an animal again as I could not care for one.
What was once wonderful, appears at least for me, insurmountably lost. Maybe someday it won't be... maybe I'll grow my hair back too and stop biting my lip to the point it swells. Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. To be honest, I expect to be dead within the next 20 years.
Still, I take comfort in your confidence that you feel you won't walk the same road. I never had the degree of fortunate social connections that you seem to have... so maybe you are right. In that spirit, godspeed and the best of luck.
zetacolaLoba 2 points on 2016-03-06 23:38:01
Well... I assume what draws the majority of users here is support. If everything was sunshine and rainbows, none of us would need support and there would probably be no one here...
Zoophilia is pretty depressing, especially when you are isolated from the object of your affections. This is something the majority of people will never have to experience. And as if it wasn't enough, we have to deal with extreme ostracism from society, which views us as little better than rapists and pedophiles. Many of us, I think, come here and find like-minded people and share our problems and worries because there is simply no other people who could empathize. I agree that it is best to be in good terms with solitude, but solitude and loneliness aren't the same. Humans are not made to endure lasting loneliness.
If you find your hunt for happiness to be more productive if you left this place, then by all means do so. But for me, it is comforting to know that there are many other people in roughly the same situation I am I can connect with.
[deleted] 1 point on 2016-03-07 20:45:50
[deleted]
zetacolaLoba 2 points on 2016-03-08 01:28:44
I think you're a bit too harsh on the community. Everybody has its point of view and there's no harm in people disagreeing and wanting to support their own opinion. Of course we are not really close as a community, we all are total strangers to each other and most of us will never meet in real life. It's hard to judge people when all you have to go by is an anonymous Internet persona.
I'm sorry you had to suffer in the past. I wish you better days for the future.
incognito-cognition 4 points on 2016-03-08 02:06:50
support is pretty much something possitive
Support itself can be positive, when there is something positive to share about it... but usually people don't come on asking for support because their life is so easy, straightforward, fun, and drama-free!
Battlecropsdogs, cats, snakes, ungulates 5 points on 2016-03-07 00:24:56
Can't add much that hasn't already been said; I think it makes sense that a community like this would have a lot of discussion on the negatives of having this attraction/society's view of this attraction, especially since we can't talk about it anywhere else.
HOWEVER I do want to say, on a daily basis, I'm very happy. I have a wonderful (animal) partner who spends all day with me. She wakes up with me in the morning, stays close in the afternoon, cuddles with me all evening, and when I settle in for bed she does the same. She's always so happy to be around me and gives so much unconditional love, and I give her the same. We have a very special and unique relationship and I'm thankful every day for it and the joy she brings me. I wouldn't want it any other way.
AXwoofExclusive 3 points on 2016-03-07 23:40:14
Because the reality of zoophiles is mostly depressing. You can't just go out and live your life like everyone else.
I've recently participated in a german discussion in a forum, where people were discussing "whats going on with those zoophiles", and I was just trying to explain what a zoophile feels, objectively, from the perspective of someone who is "affected" by it, and that many prejudices are false. But people won't accept things like this and want to start arguing. The result was the topic being closed and deleted.
So for myself, it's depressing too, but I also try to change things, even if I feel powerless most of the time.
The times when I feel actually happy, is when I spend time with my animal partner, because people can't take away the feelings I have for her, or the way she loves me back, for giving her a good life.
/r/zoophilia archive
There´s one simple answer: because reality forces us to turn towards more serious and unpleasant things. Yes, we could turn away from all of this, pretending that everything´s happy and shit...but with a "feelgood" attitude, we won´t survive long. Yes, we all could tell each other how nice and pleasant it is to have an animal partner, but wouldn´t this be extemely shortsighted when at the same time things get worse and worse? Europe almost entirely outlawed our orientation, in the US, NH will be the 41st state to outlaw it in the beginning of 2017, even South America´s countries have joined the process. Let´s face the facts: being a zoophile is a depressing thing at the moment. Opposition grows stronger and stronger, the best progress we can hope for is not being pushed back even more, with our backs already against the wall. If you don´t see this, if you really want to fade it all out just to get your "happiness and joy" back, then you definitely are wrong in any zoo forum that discusses and tries to find solutions to the problems we all face nowadays.
"If you don´t turn to politics, politics will turn towards you"...our momentarily situation is a result of placing "happiness and joy" before debates. Politics has turned onto us in the last few years...now is not the time to retreat in cozy, comfy dialogues, it´s time to adress important things.
It's amazing to see the complete 180 you did in the last few months.
It´s not a 180...I still think that we shouldn´t force us upon the public. But I also think it´s necessary for our survival to examine everything that´s going on outside our "zoo world". We need to keep the balance between these two extremes in order to be able to give a flying fuck where appropriate and react when action is really needed. I still abhor the idea of an open "zoo organisation" like ZETA, but I see that we desperately need some higher structure within our scene. Either way, we can´t just go on like this or we´ll soon be completely marginalized. The new laws that have recently been installed still don´t have a real effect on cautious and smart zoophiles. But I think that we should start preparing our grounds for the day when new scientific proof is unveiled and the general atmosphere for zoos iisn´t so goddamn poisonous anymore. We need to do the homework now so we´re fit and well prepared once the possibility for an improvement of our situation arises. No "teaching the public", but restructuring our own scene, weeding out the unfit and ill minded ones amongst us. We all know our struggle is David vs. Goliath....we better make sure that the one tiny stone in our slingshot really,REALLY counts...right?
ah, that explains why you've been telling everyone who comes here questioning themselves (as the majority of zoos do at some point) that they're flat out, without a doubt not a zoo. To deliberately misguide people to further your own cause is wrong. whether you like it or not, some people are going to be new here, and are going to be zoos. If you told me the only reason I was a zoo is cause I watched porn a few years ago I'd laugh in your face, but to the people still asking questions about themselves thats enough to give them another huge mental setback on their way to accepting themselves whatever sexuality they end up being.
If you keep kicking people out of your imaginary zoo community fortress eventually there wont be anyone to stand beside you.
Wait a minute...I don´t "kick out" people. If your interest in zoophilia is so small you are set back by me posting a few lines in here, then you probably "don´t have it inside you".
We all are suffering from the results of being too "tolerant", anything negative that has happened in the last few years can be traced back to this simple truth. Quantity has outrun quality, a kind of "recruitment spirit" seems to prevail. Again, I have to quote one of the original zeta rules: "Don´t talk ´em in, talk ´em out." What do you think this means? I think you´re entrapped in this hug box mentality. But this mentality to invite everyone in is what has caused the public to judge zoophilia as another fetish, a threat to society. If you analyze the arguments of the antis, you can easily see the connection between our "come in and try out" attitude and the increasing number of persons caught. We don´t need an army of "zoos", what we really need is genuine and sincere zoos aware of all the responsibilities involved in this orientation. If you can´t see the connection between your misguided attitude and the shitload of setbacks for our entire community, then you must be blind. By the way, who says I´m "misguiding" people? Maybe it´s you and your kind that´s misguiding new aspirants...by being too accepting and "tolerant", it is plausible that you are the one creating fencehoppers, amateur animal porn producers and all the other things that keep our public image and reputation below zero. It was your hug box mentality that was predominant the last ten to fifteen years...just take a look around you...where are we now? Has anything improved for us? No, things became worse and worse, we´re losing ground each and every day. The fact that I´m not preaching to the "tolerant" choir is based on my longtime observations of our scene.It is my firm belief that this invitive "tolerance" BS is what has brought us to this point in history where the entire world is installing laws against "zoophilia". It is my belief that we as a community have surrendered us to the fetishists, the "wanna try outs", the consumeristic attitude. As I have explained elsewhere, we have become some sort of an internet sex cult, with the brainwashing tactics, the corps mentality, the sacrosanct common beliefs not to be questioned whatsoever. It´s time to break up all the encrusted structures that have turned out to be not only ineffective, but a massive problem in itself. If you don´t agree with me, that´s fine. Unlike you, I don´t feel threatened by different viewpoints and alternate opinions. And don´t underestimate my sermon, it surely won´t lead to being isolated. I get PMs every now and then supporting my points of view, saying that it was about time someone like me appeared in our scene. I have about fifteen RL true zoo friends sharing my views I´m in constant contact with, some of them accompanying me for more than 20 years now. I guess you´re just frightened. You shit your pants that all your little beliefs turn out to be wrong in the end. There is and always was a small minority of zoos, true zoos who share my beliefs. The recent setbacks we experience is what brought us to the point of engaging in active resistance of the community´s unquestioned attitude. You all are so quick to blame the oh so evil, ill minded and intolerant society for our status quo...well, we have gone an important and relevant step ahead and ask whether it isn´t truly ourselves who are to blame. Don´t worry about me, even if I end up in total isolation (what is very unlikely as I´ve shown above)...even if I was the only one left, I´ll keep telling the unpleasant and inconvenient truth. You can go on with inviting the metaphorical suicide bombers into your non-fortress zoo community, but stop complaining about the casualities when one of those walking time bombs sets off again....I prefer not to damage my fortress by keeping those out who definitely won´t help our cause.
heh, an ad hominem attack followed by a 'true zoo' statement, really? c'mon man look through my post history and tell me I'm not a zoo.
funny how I've only been part of the zoo community the last few years and you blame me for inviting in the fencehoppers etc.? Where were you and your buddies 20 years ago when the hugbox mentally and persecution of zoos started? And what did you do to stop it then, or now?
Where I was? Lintilla, Sleepys, that´s where I was 20 years ago...to be precise, now 25 years ago. i was among those who literally invented the whole "zoo community" shit. I was the one proposing the usage of the greek zeta as "our" symbol. I used to chat with Actaeon, the one with the "Zoo code", I´m one of those pioneers. What I´ve done to stop persecution? Well, I helped creating the zeta rules to prevent things from getting out of hand as it is now.
Some of my "buddies" also have a very long history of being involved in the community and were part of the early IRC based chats. Your turn, mate....
I dont mean this to be rude but is your style of writing the way it is becasue youre angry or becasue you're german? Christ, it comes off so aggressive. I dont understand why you take that tone towards other zoos?
anyway, I will pass on my turn, I've done nothing except try to be welcoming and understanding to other new or unsure zoos who come to this sub asking questions along with chipping in to the discussions that get tossed around between us. I believe simply building a larger network of zoos and supporters will get us the furthest and provide a happier zoo community as well.
Being a zoo isnt an exclusive club. If you want to try and re-live the 90's go ahead, but I doubt many people browsing here know what youre on about.
Yeah, we Germans are usually portrayed as rude. But you have to understand that this isn´t rudeness, it´s honesty. I just write what I think and I don´t give a rat´s ass whether someone feels annoyed or attacked by me. I´m just trying to be as honest as possible. Don´t misinterpret me, I´m not aggressive. Well, the most time I´m not...;) We Germans prefer "rudeness"/honesty over politeness, that´s what our proverbial "German effectiveness" is basically based upon. We want to get things done, no matter what.
So I´ll be honest when I say that there are NO "unsure zoos" around. Either you feel it burning inside you or you don´t have it. My rejective way of replying is well considered and can be compared to what was common practice of the Shaolin monks when new aspirants needed to be evaluated. Before you were granted access to the monastery, your endurance, your dedication was tested by denying access. Only the ones with true will would endure the phase waiting outside the monastery doors, sometimes exposed to rain and snow without shelter. You seen "Fight Club"? Tyler does the same "test of dedication" by insulting the new ones aspiring membership in "Project Chaos". If you´re disencouraged easily, chances are that this isn´t what you really want from the bottom of your heart. "Don´t talk ´em in, talk ´em out" is basically the same concept; it´s done to avoid being overrun by folks who don´t take zoophilia as serious as it should be taken by ALL of us, ALL involved in this. What happens when we´re too open for anyone, even those who misjudge zoophilia as a sexual playground, can be witnessed by taking a peek into Beastforum. That´s exactly what happens when the only thing needed for being accepted is an itching groin in the presence of any animal.
In many ways, the nineties were ahead of the situation nowadays. There was no organised anti scene and because we were executing a basic "scene hygiene" by fending off most of the ill minded, the public remained very neutral and sometimes even curious about zoophilia. I believe that our "intolerance" back then made it easier to see a genuine orientation in zoophilia instead of a bunch of people "gone full pervo" out of boredom, thrill seeking or porn addiction . I have saved myself a reasonable amount of common sense so I´m still able to see our own scene through the eyes of a normal person and because of that, I can absolutely understand where all the hostility towards us is coming from. We truly make it very hard for the outsiders to identify zoophilia as a genuine sexual orientation when inviting everyone in. We shouldn´t be too surprised by the animosity when we don´t give a shit about society´s doubts and objections. Tonight,I´ve seen the South Park episode where Butters is forced by PC Principal to fiter Cartman´s Twitter and Yelp comments, creating a "safespace", fending off a dubiously looking character that is executed by hanging at the end of this episode. His name is "Reality". I can only recommend watching this episode and comparing it to our situation right now...what do we want? Creating a comfy "safespace" where no one has to question his "zoophilia"? Or wouldn´t we be better off by avoiding to create a virtual room entirely disconnected to reality and even considering reality an enemy? Your choice...I´ve already made mine... Real tolerance is NOT a one way street. Remember: We (the zoos) want something from Them (society), not vice versa.
The one that animal rapists use? https://www.google.com/search?q=site:twitter.com+%CE%B6+animal+rapist+account
The one that sick zoosadists are using? https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atwitter.com+Sick+zoosadists+have+their+own+code
Sorry, my point is: No matter what you do, there is always a scene that sees it as just more reason to hate you. The only difference I can see is how much reception and agreement they have among the general population.
I actually have a question in regards to that. I have at times tried to google them, but I couldn't actually find a canonical source with google. E.g. https://www.google.com/search?q=zoophilia+%22zeta+rules%22. Just look at that. 1st result: You on reddit. 2nd result: You on reddit. 3rd result: You (I suppose) on beastforum. etc. Comments on an article, a reddit mirror with you again, a tumblr blog, 8chan, ... The only actual result seems to be an angelfire website that has a link "Z.E.T.A.: Rules To Live By". But it's a 404. Well, it's on archive.org, very fitting with an advertisement for the website petakillsanimals.com ran by the CCF, a front for the animal killing industry.
I mean, where are they? The ZETA Verein Website is one of the few static places on the internet where you can actually find something that's called zeta rules...
Yes, that´s the entire problem; any website that had the original zeta rules included is offline now. Remember that these rules have been created and published more than 20 years ago, with only a few people who could afford running their own websites. You seem to have stumbled across one of the old sites on angelfire, that´s where my own site once was located. but you see that all this is lost and gone into oblivion and virtual nirvana. "The internet never forgets"...well, it does when providers are sold because commercialism takes over. Fact is, the original zeta rules have been lost and only a few veterans can remember them ; what ZETA offers is nothing more than a corrupted and crippled version, as well as any other website offering less than the TGR (ten golden rules).
there´s one thing I could do: back then in 1991, I had no internet and had to use an Internet cafe to connect to Lintilla and Sleepy´s. I used to scribble down important stuff to prepare myself for discussions next weekend , maybe I´ll have to dive into the mess of my cellar storage space to retrieve these old notes. I´m pretty sure I still have my old sketch blocks I used for taking notes.
I'm following up with this despite withdrawing for the most part from this subreddit for similar reasons (I'm sure you read my PM 30-30)
For some of us, we've already fought that fight and between the losses we've accumulated throughout our life, and the opposition and stress associated with the fight, it's too much. That describes me right now.
I feel you deserve praise for your efforts to improve the zoo community, 30-30, but I would caution you too, as I went down much the same road when Willow passed. I pushed zoos I felt were "undesirable" away, I burned a lot of bridges Sometimes, I did things just because the alternative was unacceptable, not because they were wise or good. That alternative was of course, embracing the loss I'd just experienced.
In short, I replaced my sorrow with anger, an anger that was often misdirected and unjustified. I did this to drown out the pain of loss. It did not land me in a good place.
Maybe this isn't you. Maybe you are different. But fast forward 5 years from her death and I'm left with very little happiness and even fewer friends. I burned my world to give her death meaning, ostracized those who may have been good friends because they did not meet my moral standards. I'm banned from 9/10 zoo forums for my actions and regret alone can never heal these wounds.
Maybe this isn't you. Maybe. But I have to write this warning in case some of it rings true. It's a road you don't want to walk.
Peace all,
-Rannoch
It´s nice you care for me but you can be assured that I´m not the type of guy burning all the bridges, going berzerk because he has trouble dealing with personal loss. The only thing that has changed for me is the plenty of spare time I have now. I have quite a good number of zoo friends I´m in constant contact with, some of them being longtime friends from Lintilla, Sleepy´s and Planes of Existence and I even have a zoo roommate I can discuss anything with. They all share my points of view when it comes to the status quo of our scene, so no bridges will be burnt here. I also have plans for the near future and it won´t be long until I´ll have my own farm. Even if I get banned from every single zoo forum in the world, there´s always a real life I can retreat to.
One thing I surely have to admit: since my mare died to months ago, I feel this internal decay. It´s definitely not good for me to be completely without any contact to my species. But don´t mistake my loss as the reason my narrative becomes more agressive; it always was , but I chose to dedicate my precious time to my mare instead of writing in online forums.
I´m really not that guy who is extroverted to an extent where I want to see the world burn to pay for my loss. I know these mechanisms and try to avoid them as good as I can. I feel sorry for you and your problems overcoming your loss; if I had to endure 5 years without my species, I´d probably be long dead. I will buy me a new equine partner this year. I simply have no choice, I belong to them. My mare will always be with me, I have her portrait tattooed on my throat, her ashes are sitting right beside me while I´m typing this. I´ll get her neck number branded onto my neck in two weeks, that´s how I deal with my loss.
Yes, I have read your PM...maybe it´s my turn now to hand out advice: stop being down because you lost your partner. After five years, it´s time to regenerate. My mare has formed and shaped me in every aspect. She is with me, she´s always present, she taught me everything. I´m pretty sure you had similar mindaltering experiences with your partner. Although our partners are gone, they are still with us and the worst thing we can do is giving in to depression. My mare always wanted to make me happy as I wanted her to be happy....to honor her, I will seek happiness because she would be very sad to see me down and depressed.Maybe it´s time for you to seek happiness again...to honor what you´ve had five years ago. What if reincarnation is real and your partner is desperately waiting for you , but you´re too busy being down? Five years is a long time... time to turn the pages, don´t you think?
Happiness makes you beautiful. Enduring pain makes you strong. Overcoming pain makes you free.
I have numerous medical issues now that prevent a true recovery, (most of them created from an attempt by my parents to "drug the zoo outta me") 30-30, otherwise I would agree completely. I feel that at this point I am a lost cause, I just hope others can learn from my mistakes. I mean, I have trouble even going outside these days... I really don't see myself ever being intimate with an animal again as I could not care for one.
What was once wonderful, appears at least for me, insurmountably lost. Maybe someday it won't be... maybe I'll grow my hair back too and stop biting my lip to the point it swells. Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. To be honest, I expect to be dead within the next 20 years.
Still, I take comfort in your confidence that you feel you won't walk the same road. I never had the degree of fortunate social connections that you seem to have... so maybe you are right. In that spirit, godspeed and the best of luck.
Well... I assume what draws the majority of users here is support. If everything was sunshine and rainbows, none of us would need support and there would probably be no one here...
Zoophilia is pretty depressing, especially when you are isolated from the object of your affections. This is something the majority of people will never have to experience. And as if it wasn't enough, we have to deal with extreme ostracism from society, which views us as little better than rapists and pedophiles. Many of us, I think, come here and find like-minded people and share our problems and worries because there is simply no other people who could empathize. I agree that it is best to be in good terms with solitude, but solitude and loneliness aren't the same. Humans are not made to endure lasting loneliness.
If you find your hunt for happiness to be more productive if you left this place, then by all means do so. But for me, it is comforting to know that there are many other people in roughly the same situation I am I can connect with.
[deleted]
I think you're a bit too harsh on the community. Everybody has its point of view and there's no harm in people disagreeing and wanting to support their own opinion. Of course we are not really close as a community, we all are total strangers to each other and most of us will never meet in real life. It's hard to judge people when all you have to go by is an anonymous Internet persona.
I'm sorry you had to suffer in the past. I wish you better days for the future.
Support itself can be positive, when there is something positive to share about it... but usually people don't come on asking for support because their life is so easy, straightforward, fun, and drama-free!
Can't add much that hasn't already been said; I think it makes sense that a community like this would have a lot of discussion on the negatives of having this attraction/society's view of this attraction, especially since we can't talk about it anywhere else.
HOWEVER I do want to say, on a daily basis, I'm very happy. I have a wonderful (animal) partner who spends all day with me. She wakes up with me in the morning, stays close in the afternoon, cuddles with me all evening, and when I settle in for bed she does the same. She's always so happy to be around me and gives so much unconditional love, and I give her the same. We have a very special and unique relationship and I'm thankful every day for it and the joy she brings me. I wouldn't want it any other way.
Because the reality of zoophiles is mostly depressing. You can't just go out and live your life like everyone else.
I've recently participated in a german discussion in a forum, where people were discussing "whats going on with those zoophiles", and I was just trying to explain what a zoophile feels, objectively, from the perspective of someone who is "affected" by it, and that many prejudices are false. But people won't accept things like this and want to start arguing. The result was the topic being closed and deleted.
So for myself, it's depressing too, but I also try to change things, even if I feel powerless most of the time.
The times when I feel actually happy, is when I spend time with my animal partner, because people can't take away the feelings I have for her, or the way she loves me back, for giving her a good life.