Thank goodness the dolphin is being masturbated for scientific purposes, and not because somebody wanted it to experience a little pleasure in its miserable captive life. -- Malcolm J. Brenner
Its no different than when we are training stallions or dairy bulls to be collected on the breeding mounts. You don't actually collect every single time, but they have to be comepletely comfortable with the porcess for when you do need to collect. Uptight animals don't give quality specimens. We practice blood draws and other medical procedures on zoo animals so they don't always have to be sedated when the need actual treatments -- Nicole Mi
“Trying to do tricks with sexually frustrated and aggressive animals is not possible and therefore I believe the trainer tries to lower the sexual tension in the group,” she said.
But she said the manual technique is an ineffective solution to the problem.
“The other dolphins can see that one dolphin has sex with the trainer and gets fed. Now the other 13 dolphins wants the same,” she said. “This only contributes to the tension and aggression in the group. Also, there is this unnatural sexual relationship between trainer and dolphin, so the dolphin thinks about sex when he sees his trainer.”
Wait, I thought animals can not possibly understand sexual acts and that they always and only want sex with members of their own species? Isn't that what animal rights groups usually say?
From the report:
Aggressive behaviour such as this is likely exacerbated by the fact that the dolphins are masturbated within sight of the other dolphins. For example, in the video, at 15m56s, the tail flukes of a second dolphin can be seen to the right of the frame. It is unclear what is happening with that dolphin, but the close proximity would ensure that the dolphin is aware of the masturbation by the trainer, ongoing right beside him. Additionally, the gate to the back tanks is only wire mesh and the dolphins held in the tanks are able to acoustically, if not visually, anticipate what is going on, creating more aggressive tension in the group.
That sounds like pure speculation. Is it?
Even if this was a training session, it would be appropriate to have the receptacle at least present as this ‘desensitizes’ the animal to it (that is, it won’t be afraid of the receptacle if it suddenly appears).
Without a receptacle, there is no way that the event filmed by RamBam can be part of an AI program.
Are dolphins naturally "afraid" of these receptacles?
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 6 points on 2016-03-24 17:37:16
“Trying to do tricks with sexually frustrated and aggressive animals is not possible and therefore I believe the trainer tries to lower the sexual tension in the group,” she said.
But she said the manual technique is an ineffective solution to the problem.
hmm who do I trust more. The guys who's job is is to train dolphins and literally works with them day in day out, or some harpy with probably zero experience of dolphins banging on about how uneasy it makes her feel. tough choice.
zetacolaLoba 3 points on 2016-03-24 19:12:04
The answer: trust no one.
zoozooz 7 points on 2016-03-24 09:21:30
Animal rights groups focus on the weirdest things
Leonie Vestering, leader of animal party PvdD, pressed charges and accused the zoo of sexual abuse.
Dolphinariums - just as regular zoos - can never be big enough to provide adequate space for the animals that are kept there and for that reason they should be considered to be abusive. But watching the video in the article, I fail to see what is so supposedly abusive happening there.
It has also been claimed that the dolphins are kept in small over-chlorinated tanks for long periods.
Everything is too small at dolphinariums in general. That's why they should be opposed in the first place. Not because someone masturbates a dolphin who - at least as far as this video shows - remains voluntarily there and is free to swim away at any time.
They determined that no laws were broken by the disturbing act.
I really don't understand the hysteria when it comes to animals and sexuality. Keep dolphins and billions of animals in farming locked up in far too tight spaces all their lives, do whatever abusive stuff people do to animals and it's "eh". But someone touches an animal penis, it's international news... Why?
I´d be very grateful if you could explain to me what these articles you post in here are good for. Don´t you know that you´re already "preaching to the converted"? Yes, the average person is irrational when the topic of animals and sex comes up. Yes, "animal rights" activists are hostile for no reason. Yes, the public uproar followed is predictable. Yes, the world is unjust and unfair. But we all know that, we know that for ages now; and one thing that surely won´t change anything at all is another predictable reaction, the pro bias from the so called "zoo community".
I´m bored. It´s always the same zero sum game; from society...but also from you, zoozooz.
A serious young man found the conflicts of mid 20th century America confusing. He went to many people, seeking a way of resolving within himself the discords that troubled him, but he remained troubled.
One night in a coffee house, a self ordained Zen master said to him, "Go to the dilapidated mansion you will find at this address which I have written down for you. Do not speak to those who live there; you must remain silent until the moon rises tomorrow night.
Go to the large room on the right of the main hallway, sit in the lotus position on top of the rubble in the northeast corner, face the corner and meditate."
He did as the zen master instructed. his meditation was frequently interrupted by worries. He worried whether or not the rest of the plumbing fixtures would fall from the second floor bathroom to join the pipes and other trash he was sitting on. He worried how would he know when the moon rose on the next night. He worried about what the people who walked through the room said about him.
His worrying and meditation were disturbed when, as if in a test of his faith, ordure fell from the second floor onto him. At that time, two people walked into the room. the first asked the second who the man sitting there was. the second replied "Some say he is a holy man. Others say he is a shithead."
Hearing this, the man was enlightened.
zetacolaLoba 3 points on 2016-03-24 18:19:53
Weren't you the one bitching about how zoos on the Internet tend to shield themselves from outsider criticism and create echo chambers? Well, there you have it. An article like this one precisely is outsider criticism. It's a good thing for zoos to be reminded that humanity at large is still out to get us, even if the narrative on the forums tend to vindicate zoophilic behavior a little too much.
30-30amator equae 2 points on 2016-03-24 23:08:47
I´m not against keeping an open eye to the things happening outside...but what I´m against is the predictable narrative of "ohh, look, how unjust and unfair it is!".
It´s not the article itself that makes me upset, it´s the way it is used to aquire the "victim mindset" once again, without differentiating, without taking the outsider perspective into the considerations.
My criticism isn´t aimed directly at zoozooz, there are others like a user from BF , named zqwm7, who is illustrating this mechanism in a more severe and awkward manner. Especially the comments orbiting around self victimisation (" We poor, misunderstood and persecuted minority..." ) won´t lead anywhere, they only serve to harden the frontlines. Automatized reactions from both sides, originating from pure emotionalism instead of trying to find a compromise that works for both sides.
I´m not hostile towards posting such articles in here. But when it turns into fucking emo teen complaints about the stubbornness, injustice and malinformation of society, it just gets boring, inefficient and clearly shows how much we as a community have distanced ourselves from the vast majority of people.
The first and foremost duty of a zoo is to become aware of how society perceives his orientation in order to understand what his/her life will be like in "enemy territory".
Reiterating the same old rants about society´s inability to see it "from our PoV" is just trying to outgun an army that outnumbers us by far, is better equipped and has the support of almost anyone else. We´re not Spartans who can fend off the Persian legions with a meager 300 men, you know.
Also I don´t quite understand why this article is considered criticism. It just illustrates the recent perception of "zoophilia" by society.
We shouldn´t act and comment like we´re the ones bearing the "one and only truth" while all the others are just "malinformed and religiously inspired hate mongers". Until someone invents a human-animal translator, we are speculating at least as much as our adversaries and no one can legitimately claim to have the final truth.
More opennness is needed...from our adversaries, but also from us.
[deleted] 1 point on 2016-03-25 01:07:03
[removed]
zetacolaLoba 3 points on 2016-03-25 03:02:32
I´m not hostile towards posting such articles in here
.
I´d be very grateful if you could explain to me what these articles you post in here are good for. Don´t you know that you´re already "preaching to the converted"?
Uh, ok. I guess I just don't "get" your tone, but to me you indeed sound very hostile.
Also I don´t quite understand why this article is considered criticism. It just illustrates the recent perception of "zoophilia" by society.
I agree that this particular article doesn't offer much in terms of criticism (or any content really) but reading between the lines, one can easily discern the passing of judgment that is made in regards to zoophilic acts. All criticism is opinion, and all opinion is criticism, to an extent. Since our behavior hasn't seen much formal and academic criticism, we have to do with what we have, i.e. articles like this.
We shouldn´t act and comment like we´re the ones bearing the "one and only truth" while all the others are just "malinformed and religiously inspired hate mongers".
Yeah, that's why I like reddit. I haven't seen this sentiment here personally. People will point out the glaring flaws in opinions contradicting our own, but they'll rarely make fallacious claims like I've seen on other forums. In my opinion, this isn't self-victimization, but observation of the absurdity of the opponents' discourse.
FunFriendly 1 point on 2016-03-26 05:30:34
First of all...you talk way too much. People share stories here and have conversations. This is a place to talk, vent and exchange ideas.
30-30amator equae 2 points on 2016-03-26 09:30:18
Yeah, if I do ten more posts like this, the internet will be full and shut down...and maybe you should do a little lookie lookie to the right side of the screen. It says: /r/zoophilia is devoted to the DISCUSSION and the sharing of information regarding zoophilia, and not: please produce oneliners with no content
/r/zoophilia archive
Interesting comments on a different site:
Heh, that actually surprised me:
Wait, I thought animals can not possibly understand sexual acts and that they always and only want sex with members of their own species? Isn't that what animal rights groups usually say?
From the report:
That sounds like pure speculation. Is it?
Are dolphins naturally "afraid" of these receptacles?
hmm who do I trust more. The guys who's job is is to train dolphins and literally works with them day in day out, or some harpy with probably zero experience of dolphins banging on about how uneasy it makes her feel. tough choice.
The answer: trust no one.
Animal rights groups focus on the weirdest things
Dolphinariums - just as regular zoos - can never be big enough to provide adequate space for the animals that are kept there and for that reason they should be considered to be abusive. But watching the video in the article, I fail to see what is so supposedly abusive happening there.
Everything is too small at dolphinariums in general. That's why they should be opposed in the first place. Not because someone masturbates a dolphin who - at least as far as this video shows - remains voluntarily there and is free to swim away at any time.
I really don't understand the hysteria when it comes to animals and sexuality. Keep dolphins and billions of animals in farming locked up in far too tight spaces all their lives, do whatever abusive stuff people do to animals and it's "eh". But someone touches an animal penis, it's international news... Why?
Google translate link to the statement of the dolphinarium: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dolfinarium.nl%2Frambam%2F&edit-text=
I´d be very grateful if you could explain to me what these articles you post in here are good for. Don´t you know that you´re already "preaching to the converted"? Yes, the average person is irrational when the topic of animals and sex comes up. Yes, "animal rights" activists are hostile for no reason. Yes, the public uproar followed is predictable. Yes, the world is unjust and unfair. But we all know that, we know that for ages now; and one thing that surely won´t change anything at all is another predictable reaction, the pro bias from the so called "zoo community". I´m bored. It´s always the same zero sum game; from society...but also from you, zoozooz.
A serious young man found the conflicts of mid 20th century America confusing. He went to many people, seeking a way of resolving within himself the discords that troubled him, but he remained troubled. One night in a coffee house, a self ordained Zen master said to him, "Go to the dilapidated mansion you will find at this address which I have written down for you. Do not speak to those who live there; you must remain silent until the moon rises tomorrow night. Go to the large room on the right of the main hallway, sit in the lotus position on top of the rubble in the northeast corner, face the corner and meditate."
He did as the zen master instructed. his meditation was frequently interrupted by worries. He worried whether or not the rest of the plumbing fixtures would fall from the second floor bathroom to join the pipes and other trash he was sitting on. He worried how would he know when the moon rose on the next night. He worried about what the people who walked through the room said about him.
His worrying and meditation were disturbed when, as if in a test of his faith, ordure fell from the second floor onto him. At that time, two people walked into the room. the first asked the second who the man sitting there was. the second replied "Some say he is a holy man. Others say he is a shithead."
Hearing this, the man was enlightened.
Weren't you the one bitching about how zoos on the Internet tend to shield themselves from outsider criticism and create echo chambers? Well, there you have it. An article like this one precisely is outsider criticism. It's a good thing for zoos to be reminded that humanity at large is still out to get us, even if the narrative on the forums tend to vindicate zoophilic behavior a little too much.
I´m not against keeping an open eye to the things happening outside...but what I´m against is the predictable narrative of "ohh, look, how unjust and unfair it is!". It´s not the article itself that makes me upset, it´s the way it is used to aquire the "victim mindset" once again, without differentiating, without taking the outsider perspective into the considerations. My criticism isn´t aimed directly at zoozooz, there are others like a user from BF , named zqwm7, who is illustrating this mechanism in a more severe and awkward manner. Especially the comments orbiting around self victimisation (" We poor, misunderstood and persecuted minority..." ) won´t lead anywhere, they only serve to harden the frontlines. Automatized reactions from both sides, originating from pure emotionalism instead of trying to find a compromise that works for both sides.
I´m not hostile towards posting such articles in here. But when it turns into fucking emo teen complaints about the stubbornness, injustice and malinformation of society, it just gets boring, inefficient and clearly shows how much we as a community have distanced ourselves from the vast majority of people. The first and foremost duty of a zoo is to become aware of how society perceives his orientation in order to understand what his/her life will be like in "enemy territory".
Reiterating the same old rants about society´s inability to see it "from our PoV" is just trying to outgun an army that outnumbers us by far, is better equipped and has the support of almost anyone else. We´re not Spartans who can fend off the Persian legions with a meager 300 men, you know.
Also I don´t quite understand why this article is considered criticism. It just illustrates the recent perception of "zoophilia" by society. We shouldn´t act and comment like we´re the ones bearing the "one and only truth" while all the others are just "malinformed and religiously inspired hate mongers". Until someone invents a human-animal translator, we are speculating at least as much as our adversaries and no one can legitimately claim to have the final truth. More opennness is needed...from our adversaries, but also from us.
[removed]
.
Uh, ok. I guess I just don't "get" your tone, but to me you indeed sound very hostile.
I agree that this particular article doesn't offer much in terms of criticism (or any content really) but reading between the lines, one can easily discern the passing of judgment that is made in regards to zoophilic acts. All criticism is opinion, and all opinion is criticism, to an extent. Since our behavior hasn't seen much formal and academic criticism, we have to do with what we have, i.e. articles like this.
Yeah, that's why I like reddit. I haven't seen this sentiment here personally. People will point out the glaring flaws in opinions contradicting our own, but they'll rarely make fallacious claims like I've seen on other forums. In my opinion, this isn't self-victimization, but observation of the absurdity of the opponents' discourse.
First of all...you talk way too much. People share stories here and have conversations. This is a place to talk, vent and exchange ideas.
Yeah, if I do ten more posts like this, the internet will be full and shut down...and maybe you should do a little lookie lookie to the right side of the screen. It says: /r/zoophilia is devoted to the DISCUSSION and the sharing of information regarding zoophilia, and not: please produce oneliners with no content