LadySaberCat writes:
But real zoophiles hate bestialists and the cruel acts that they perform!I've yet to see that actually, if anything I've seen an overwhelming support of fence jumping and going after animals that don't belong to you and then crying victim because the animal was not having it. I didn't see your community(except for literally ONE zoophile) demand justice for Venus, a pit bull puppy that was so viciously assaulted she suffered a vaginal and uterine prolapse so severe it nearly killed her. Or Beatrice the deaf Boxer/Pit mix that was in the same shape as Venus except her rectum was hanging out of her in the end and sadly she died as a result of the trauma. Or the pit bull that was raped and hung from a tree in Washington state, the only zoophiles that commented on that wanted to know "Was she cute?" or "She was young so I bet she had a tight pussy." Or what about the woman who's beloved miniature horses were being attacked almost nightly? Her dog was killed while trying to protect the horses. Didn't see an out pouring of condemnation against that monster. Or the case in Germany where a man caused vaginal tearing in one mare and in another he caused a serious infection that wouldn't have nearly killed her had she not been in foal. The miscarriage nearly killed her and the infection made it worse, yet the only support in that case was for the person who assaulted the mares. Apparently he was well known in the area but no one had seen his face until the last incident, I guess the people in the area were fed up and decided to take matters into their own hands. He was beaten into a coma and to date no one knows who the attackers are and if they do no one wants to be a rat.
And each of these cases was confirmed by evidence and not just rumors to make a good headline or stir fear. In my entire history of hearing about this zoophile and beastialists stuff I've seen little to no care for animals. The only time I hear zoophiles and beastialists talk about the feelings or treatment of animals is when someone mentions eating meat. I've seen one zoophile here that expressed some semblance of concern and outrage and only ONE. But everywhere else not a goddamn peep!
Here's a link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Drama/comments/4h6gfm/interspecies_romance_enthusiasts_discuss_which_is/
It really sucks that the bestiality 'community' is so much more visible than any of the small, sane zoo groups I'm aware of. It's hard to blame people for thinking all zoos are monsters when they see 'all zoos' turning a blind eye to blatant abuse of animals (cough beastforum cough)
And hey, look at that-- who could have guessed that advocating for fence hopping on some weird, shaky animals-can-make-their-own-decisions-so-I-can-fuck-them-whenever-I-want justification would make zoos look like a bunch of animal rapists to outsiders? The continued support for fence hopping by a part of the 'sane' zoo community is by far the most frustrating part of its current climate.
But, speaking of confusing and nonsensical beliefs about appropriate sexual conduct, I think most people are going to have a hard time taking you seriously around here ever since you busted this one out:
So, in other words, you're not allowed to have confusing and nonsensical beliefs if you're a zoo.
You're absolutely allowed to have confusing and nonsensical beliefs, it's just that people are probably gonna figure that out pretty quickly and stop paying attention to you.
You're free to believe what you like, but if you state opinion as fact you can expect others to challenge your beliefs. Simply put, if you don't want your personal opinions and beliefs challenged, don't post them on the internet for discussion.
I said "I BELIEVE same sex relationships are messed up." I said, "I don't BELIEVE it truly is just a healthy difference." I said, "I JUST THINK it's wrong or messed up to be attracted to the same gender as yourself." So how is this stating opinion as fact?
You clarified later that this was an opinion, but that was not in your first remarks where you presented it as fact. I can quote the posts if you like and make comments inline, but I think you're capable of reading what was posted.
I understand it is your opinion and you are entitled to it and I'm entitled to differ or not, but if you choose your words more carefully you can avoid issues such as this in the future.
As a medium of communication, text can be difficult as one must be clear and concise to ensure you are understood. That so many have read your post and gotten the same meaning suggests that you either intended it as written and now wish to backpedal or that you did not express yourself clearly enough the first time. I give you the benefit of the doubt that it is the later.
Since you bring it up, what do you think should be done to increase the visibility of the community of those who have caring, non-abusive sexual relationships with animals? Many people seem to identify this as a problem, but I don't see that many willing to do anything about it.
Why would you even post in there?
That goes double for our one moderator ffs.
who started the thread, no less. (edit: referring to said moderator, i mean)
I certainly don't mean any harm by it. Someone says that our stuff is "drama" well, I'm going to try to be defensive against some of the untrue things people say.
You mean statements such as the unfounded claim that all homosexual relationships are essentially due to abuse as children?
Does the dissonance burn?
[deleted]
/r/drama is one of the best subreddits, why?
really?
people already don't want to believe we actually exist and when forced to see that we do, think we're crazy nutjobs even BEFORE seeing a crazy, out-of-hand (and off-topic) discussion like the one you linked to in /r/drama. so people who already have a bad opinion of us now have an even WORSE opinion of us because you brought it to their attention. and you don't think that would bother the rest of us?
There was actually good discussion in the thread and arising from the thread being linked.
/u/LadySaberCat stated this specifically, and i can't imagine she's the only one.
i don't see this as a win no matter how you paint it.
Don´t try to suck out of this THAT easy,moron. Yes, it turned out to a relatively civilized discussion, but that was nothing you could foresee or influence, so it could have resulted in the opposite quite easily. Be honest, how serious do you take us? What is it we are for you? Are we your personal toys to fuck with in whatever crooked way you decide? What if this turned out into yet another flamewar against zoophilia? Let me ask you: how serious do you take zoophilia? Is this a giant joke for you? Are you with us or against us? What about the next time an equally controversial discussion will arise, will we find ourselves thrown under the bus and put out into the open for easy ridicule again by you, only because you consider it "fun"? You keep telling that you´ve "fucked yourself into this subreddit´s mod position"...well, mate, you really are making big efforts to fuck yourself out of this position in my opinion. For us, all of this here isn´t fun, isn´t entertainment; it´s fucking real and I dare to speak for all of us here by saying that nobody likes being played with by you like a bird or a mouse is being played with by a cat before the cat kills it at will. Don´t just throw us under the bus,dude. Don´t expose us without even asking us if we like it or not. It´s about loyalty, responsibility and respect; none of this was shown by you when you decided to link us into your "entertaining subreddit" that´s known for attracting multitudes of hatemongers, shitposters and neonazi, "white pride" retards. Yes, it went relatively smooth for our community..... this time. What about the next time you see yourself fit to add a "little spice" to /r/drama ? What if linking another thread will result in massive insults and stalking? If you are for real and not just a trolling eeejit, you should already know how hard the struggle is for any of us.
You once posted that you like the word "cuck" as an insult for a spineless person; I´m sorry to say, but by throwing us under the bus in /r/drama without even bothering to ask for us to agree, you totally acted like a cuck...and I won´t even touch your doubious decision to make this lying attention whore Whitney a (temporary) mod in /r/zoophilia here. By handing the entire community over to another subreddit´s possible and very probable hatepostings, you basically acted like someone who allows another random man to fuck your own wife , getting entertained by watching it....a cuck.
Let us say that,after the Whitney incident, this was strike number two...another one of these irresponsible actions from you and I´m fucking outta here ;I really hope others will follow my example and you´re basically hosting an empty subreddit then. We zoos are already being played with by society and nobody needs that from you, this subreddit´s moderator. Loyalty,responsibility and respect, man. Although I may occasionally start some controversies with other members in here, I would never ever pull anyone into the limelight to be torn apart by outsiders...but you just did this with all of us without even asking. Stop being a spineless, illoyal cuck.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. The whole Whitney incident is still a very sore spot which has made me wary of Frostfedore every time I saw a post of him (That too got all posted over /r/drama by him iirc). I do not feel represented by him as a moderator of this subreddit. I do not want to support him as a moderator of this subreddit. I'm willing to give it one more last change, in the very slim hope that maybe, just maybe one of our other moderators is going to step it at some point. But if nothing it going to change, I'm out.
I'm not quite ready to jump out over FrostedFedora's mod status, but I do think that that person has no place being a mod here. I've too been upset since the Whitney incident and this only compounds that belief.
I have no issues with FrostedFedora as a user, but there is an apparent lack of responsibility in his/her behavior as a mod.
Perhaps it's time we made a community thread about this. I've thought about it to be honest, but I didn't know if I was alone in this thought or not...
You can make a thread if you'd like to. I don't ban for or delete criticism. Just keep in mind I'm the only active moderator on the subreddit and there is nobody else I trust enough to appoint to replace me.
Maybe the community should decide your replacement, then.
I'm trying to word this in a non-confrontational fashion, as I have nothing against you as a person, I just don't find you acting mature enough for the role of effectively head mod.
At any rate, I won't be the one to make the thread as I've already been banned from several zoo forums for what they termed "stirring the pot." I don't want to play into that stereotype.
I personally don't spend my time online looking for news about people having sex with animals, so this is the first time i am hearing about any of this stuff. I personally condemn these acts because the animal was harmed and most likely in those instances the animal was probably forced. And i am not ok with fence hopping. With that said not everybody who has sex with an animal is a zoophile.there is a group out there that has fetishized sex with animals and may not care for there safety as much as we do. Also there are probably more Zoos like me who may just be unaware due to living life. We are not perfect and just because we are not actively denouncing it every time it happens in the news doesn't mean we don't care we just may have nothing new to say about it.
Frostfedora, are you milking us so you can post drama in your own subreddit? WTF?
It has generated some pretty intelligent discussion actually.
Aye sadly there is aways twisted fucked up people In this world and such behavior isn't secluded to those who get off to animals, everything listed above has been done to humans maybe more so. It seems to be nature to avoid the evils in the world only to make are days day more bearable.
I must be hanging in the wrong group then: My experience has been the opposite.
I lost interest somewhere around the phrase "real zoophiles."
For one thing, real zoophiles are people who are diagnosed with a clinical paraphilia. But that aside, it is really no different than saying "real human-interested hetereosexuals." There is no one definition, so accept that there are good people and bad people in every group, and stop trying to push them into the outgroup. I know what people mean when using this phrase but to the outside world I think it comes off as transparent no-true-scotsman logic.
So you prefer doing what LadySaberCat is accusing our community of? Just going blind eye, saying that "there are good and bad people"?
I´ll explain it again as if I had not done this before so many times: Zoophilia always was meant as a trademark we tried to build up for easier identification, for easier separation of the "good" people from the "bad". When will this finally find its way into your heads? LadySaberCat isn´t an exception, she represents exactly the way many outsiders think of us as a community. I´ve been accused of being an intolerant asshole by more people than I can count, now you see that I´m not doing this for my own purpose, not for feeling superior, but for very practical reasons. Either we manage to establish some trademark that is worth for any outsider to place his/her trust into or we won´t get anywhere, folks!
Hell, who am I even trying to fight for? In a few weeks, I move to my own farm out in the nowhere, my future flat that once was a bar and leisure/sleeping area for trail riders has two big shower rooms (m/f) that are reassembled and renovated into one big shower room; due to the fact that it´s on the ground level, I decided to have ONE big room, so I can shower together with my new equine partner INSIDE my own flat. Two big showerheads will be installed in the middle of the large room, two extra water hoses will be added. Yeah, you read right, I will be able to take my mare inside with me for a nice shower. The pasture my mare will graze on in the near future lies directly behind one of my living rooms walls; the only thing that separates us is a big windowed front with a glass door I just have to open to stand on the pasture. Why the fuck should I continue to care about zoophilia, societ, public image of zoos, you, anybody? You just won´t get it out of pure stubbornness and falsely interpreted feelings of community and "sticking together as a persecuted minority", with the "good" and the bad" people equally justified as "zoophiles". Instead of making it possible for some of us who would die defending the true zeta principles to gain tolerance and shape the public image of us , you stubbornly insist on your "all inclusive" approach that will gain us shit and more rejection from society. You ignore any offer from our "opponents" with your "either all of us or no one" attitude...instead of gradually achieving something, you prefer instant achieving nothing. We ll want change. But something starts creeping into my head here: you only want OTHERS to change. When it comes to a change of our own community, change of our own attitude, all that can be haeard is a "no, thanks, go fuck yourself, you intolerant hater". But this is not how it works, folks, not at all. Either we ALL change or , well, you can stay in your selfbuilt ivory tower abode, denying any offers from the outside. But don´t you fucking dare complaining about the oh so unjust and intolerant society that totally fails to give in to all of your retarded demands. Stop whining about new laws, the general negative attitude of society and "how hard you have it as a zoo". Remember that it´s US who want something, not THEM.
And while your world will continue to turn more and more hostile, while new laws are prepared, while fucktard Arpaio keeps luring another shithead from craigslist or beastforum into his set ups, I´ll soon be showering with my new equine wife. And when we make love under a stream of nice and warm water, I surely will find the time to temporarily shed a tiny little thought on "the community" that has proven to be unable to find a compromise, ANY compromise. I´ll be smiling for a second, but then dismiss this distraction and turn towards what is immensely more important then....I´m sure you can guess what that is, right?
While I´m staring at the gorgeous , perfectly white butt of this 7 y.o. Irish Tinker mare I just bought today and will pick up immediately after I finished moving , I reminisce the countless hours I tried to open up a tiny possibility for tolerance towards zoophiles, advertizing for a new and different approach to society within the community. Maybe I´ll laugh at all the wasted time, knowing that my lady is standing in her box only a few meters away from my bed. I even may become sad for a moment, but that won´t last for long, ´cause I have to take care of another beautiful female equine, a 6 y.o. Oldenburg lady showing high talent for dressage; it immediately clicked when I testrode her. And I surely won´t forget the ten year old Haflinger mare I got for free on top of my purchase.
Thinking back will surely be fun with one mare to love, one to work with and another one to provide company for the other two; thinking of an incredibly stubborn community inept of making compromises and recognizing offers made from the "hostile" society. I surely will place my stings into the "community" by publishing my texts as ebooks when it can be done anonymously or I´ll just have ´em printed by one of those handy self publishing sites that will print your book for a few bucks. But it should be clear what my priorities will be in the near future...I have loads of work to do, have to enjoy the bliss of my soon-to-be horse paradise. I´m looking forward to this, my computer will only be switched on to write down another pamphlet, I´ll abstain from further involvement in a community that just doesn´t seem to be worth fighting for.
So, have a nice day, y´all...maybe you will learn to recognize your real chances someday, maybe you´ll learn to compromise when the pressure on the community will have increased exponentially and you find yourselves with your backs against the wall and a pistol placed on your chest. Until then , have fun insisting on your illusionary "all or nothing" fights, keep swiping away all the hands that are offered to you, keep true to your mule like stubbornness and your proverbial self righteousness. Keep stomping your feet into the ground, demanding that the world has to change according to your will without offering even the slightest little changes within your own community. That surely will lead you to triumph and total victory. Onward, morons! Chaaaarggge!!! ;)
Good luck with your life with your new mare.
Did you mean to respond to a different post? I don't see how your reply has anything to do with my post regarding how "true zoophile" is a meaningless description because "zoophile" itself is so arbitrarily defined.
In other words, if you're going to invent or re-appropriate a word to describe a type of person, the definition of that word should be consistent and unambiguous. "Zoophile" is neither.
I am absolutely happy that you have the resources to have a custom set-up on a lot of property! It sounds like a great opportunity for you. Whether or how you contribute to "the community" is up to you, of course.
I've argued that point with him forever. It's an old battle and honestly I think him and I both are tired of it... lol.