I've noticed something about the zoophilic/beasty community. Many of you guys want for there to be animal porn but then you don't believe that people should marry animals because "the animals wouldn't understand the concept of marriage or the concept of them being married to you" but animals are also unlikely to understand the concept of porn. But then making animals into porn-stars is somehow okay by most of you. Is it better to allow animals to be exploited as jerk off material through the dark world of pornography (which, the animals can have no way of knowing that they are a part of, so they can't consent to it. And if they could know what porn was I can bet that most of them would NOT want to be a part of it because they would have self respect for themselves I'm sure of it) or is it better for us to confess our love and devotion til death do we part to animals in this ceremony and public recognition we know of as 'marriage?' Would the animals prefer to be a part of a beautiful and pure husband-wife relationship with us that is built on a foundation of devotion, faithfulness, love, trust and respect or would they rather be some dirty slut hoes exploited on camera all the time for the entertainment of the horny human masses of the world? Out of those two concepts (marriage or porn), which do you think is more graspable by a non-human beast? It seems like there are a lot of excuses made and dragging of the feet when it comes to the idea of marrying your non-human lover but I don't see any of this in the face of the issue of porn involving non-human animals. This is just some foods for thought. Please excuse the rambling nature of my thoughts for it is all off the cuff.
/r/zoophilia archive
I can see valid points here. I'm almost having a battle with my own thoughts about this concept, for animal porn in the web. Knowing many are not treated fairly in that sense. But I still get off to watching that same sort of thing. I'd love to see others point of view on this grinding subject, more so than the marriage topic. I don't really agree on marriage with humans, as I see no point other than financial gain, so for animals being married off to a human, I see no point in it, from my bad point of view of it in the first place.
Marriage is not only for financial gain. It also is a symbol for mutual dedication and love. Sure, being married will save you taxes, but I doubt that´s the one and only reason why people still get married nowadays and gays desperately fight for their right to marry. It´s about the symbolism of marriage, dedication and devotion, doing something that´s significant, making a definite choice and sticking to it "`til death do us part".
Thanks for such a great comment. I can see the faithful side to marriage as well. And I love what is symbolisez to many as being devotion to one another. But now, I see marriage differently and I hate that the financial gain is apart of it as well as the government knowing about it. I need to learn more though. So I really do appreciate your comment. Thank you.
I would not call it a symbol of that when marriage on average (edit: human marriages) don't last more than 3 years? (Edit: I know that zoosexual relationships are normally till death set them apart) Not to mention that you can show mutual dedication and love without ever getting married.
IMO Marriage is overrated.
Well, my "marriage" with my mare lasted for 22 years and ended with her dying in my arms. Just because you are not fit enough and lack dedication to join them, the marines are overrated,huh? Just because the bouncer won´t let you in, the club you´re trying to enter is overrated?
Ups, I was talking about human marriages, sorry I was not clear enough. I know that relationships with animals are usually till death set them apart.
Is that an analogy? Because it doesn't make any sense.
That makes no sense, nobody is "bouncing" me from getting married.
And yes. IMO, marriage (with humans or animals) is overrated.
I would love to marry an animal partner, for no other reason than the symbolic worth it has, but I sincerely doubt an animal would understand the concept. Hell, I don't think most humans understand the concept properly.
Zoophiles are very good at justifying the things they like by whatever sophistry they can pull out of their ass. Naturally, porn is no different.
Here we go again.
Please, not again...just leave it at that. Or do you really demand writing down all the newly found genders and partnership relations every fucking single time? ;)
"Spousal relationship"?
Sure you may say that. But I just prefer husband-wife :)
Yeah well, I think it's fair for people to think you're being a bit of a dick then.
I'm just creeped out by how everyone "has to think and feel alike" these days- this is expected of everyone. I only think heterosexuality is right and buzz off if you don't like that. I don't believe in discriminating against gays so you shouldn't have a problem with what my personal feelings are.
You have every right to feel that only heterosexuality is right, and I, likewise, have every right to consider you a bit of a dick for it.
It seems so strange that you would have such a problem with my personal feelings when it comes to you, and yet in the same breath proclaim that I should not have a problem with your personal feelings regarding others. Isn't that just a bit hypocritical?
I have every right, but I'll be considered a dick suuuure
Note: I generally avoid zoo pornography. However, that said, your argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
Marriage is a social contract. Requesting human / nonhuman marriage is, in my view, a bit ridiculous because of that. It really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they understand marriage, but the nature of marriage itself.
In my view, you could consider it similar to someone requesting that their dog co-sign on their morgage.
It may have some validity as a symbolic gesture, but we are absolutely not at the point of making symbolic gestures right now. There are much more significant battles to fight.
Pornography is in an entirely different category, whether you support it or not, and we need to discuss each of these issues separately, because they are separate.
What if the symbolic gesture is entirely for yourself and not meant as a signal to the outside world?I think that it is totally legitimate to do such stuff. Even in the gay community, there were symbolic marriages when the gay marriage issue was nonexistent and the fight for legality was still the main thing to focus on.
Sorry, I should have been more clear.
We are not at the point where we should be fighting for legal validation of symbolic gestures. If you want to make a personal symbolic gesture, and if that is important to you, I don't think there is any harm in that and I wish you the best.
I personally view both ethically made zoo porn and marriage as acceptable, but I question the point of the latter when framed as a zoo rights issue. Getting the state involved is pointless-- we already have assumed ownership over an animal, and I'm not sure what legal benefits would come from being able to marry your pet.
Nice question. I believe an animal can indeed grasp the concept of marriage; of course not in the same way a human understands it, but since longtime relationships, even monogamous ones, are not an exception in the animal kingdom, I´d say it´s easier to understand the concept of "marriage" than that of "pornography" for an animal.
The ones using pornography will naturally defend using it. Most of the users won´t even bother thinking about the "product" they just consumed, just like the customer of a brothel usually doesn´t think about the hooker he just visited too much, although it´s common knowledge that many hookers don´t do this job voluntarily, are forced to share their earnings with a pimp or pay ridiculously high rents for "hotel rooms". In my opinion, this is based on our zeitgeist. We´re living in the era of ego, you know. That´s what capitalism made us into, a bunch of lone warriors with an elbow mentality. Sure, a healthy degree of egoism and competitive spirit is imprinted in all humans, but nowadays, it´s glorified and supported by society. Just think of the "Panama papers" case...for using tax evasion strategies, you´re not publicly shamed, but considered "smart" and "protecting your property". Another thing is the way our global economy works...if we stop exploiting Africa´s resources, quit buying cheap clothes that we all know to be manufactured by child labor in Pakistan´s and India´s sweatshops, our whole system would collapse at once.
But let´s return to the porn issue and ask yourself "cui bono?", who benefits? Lots of porn users benefit from those neglecting any morality, making and uploading animal porn. The problems hidden behind it aren´t perceived; neither the moral issues nor the more practical issues. For me, uploading animal pornography is the exact adaequate of recording sex acts with a mentally challenged person unable to understand that this recording will be published. I´m not totally opposed to recording sex acts with your (!) animal, maybe someone feels the need to have something to remember when his quadruped partner is gone some day ( I don´t and I´m glad I haven´t done porn with my mare). This is something I can tolerate...when the animal isn´t forced or coerced because the camera is there. What brings us to another part of the problem: I never understood the porn afficionados and probably never will. There are many flics out there where abusive practices are so goddamn clearly visible. I puzzles me what kind of mindset is necessary to keep wanking when a mare is tied and cornered, showing clear signs of discontent, when a dog is used as a live dildo ("dildogging"...see, the porn addicts even have a separate word for it, seems to be very common then,right?), when stallions and geldings are drugged to the brim or tricked into mating by a nearby mare in heat. But I guess my signature latin proverb explains quite a lot here: "penis erectus non compos mentis", an erect dick knows no conscience. When self centeredness is added, real compassion for animals is the first casuality. But let us stick with the "cui bono?" for a while. Who would profit from legal animal marriages? Only those few "pervos" who actually want their partnership to be more than just a nice spare time activity, who want to express their dedication to their animal. For a porn fiend, there´s literally no profit from this.
Maybe the schism can be broken down to a fundamental question: What is love? We live in an era of formerly unknown sexual freedom, you can do almost anything that you can think of. You even can talk about getting aroused by smearing feces all over your body in talk shows like Maury et al., you can put on latex suits, you can meet likeminded folks with two clicks, you can meet up with fursuiters and even have sex with your suit on and only a few will bat an eye. Boobs and ass jumps into your face from literally every ad, pornography of any kind is easily accessible and the embarrassing act of visiting your local VHS store to rent some porn also is gone. Everything is, as it seems, permitted. For the ones with the more exotic needs, importing weird shit from Japan also isn´t much of a hassle anymore. We´re basically in sex paradise today...but probably the most underfucked society in history. If there is sex, then it´s not about feelings anymore, it has become some kind of sports. We have exchanged the indoctrination of the church that was the predominant one for centuries for another doctrin, that of porn. Faster,harder, kinkier, more, weirder and more about yourself, not your partner.
Within this shift towards total permissiveness, we seem to have lost the ability to love. Sex has become a product. Supermarket mentality, throwaway mentality. It all is engraved into our system, we´re coined by it. Black has become white and white black. And we buy and consume and buy and consume....and ask ourselves why we´re not happy, even with shitloads of sex and porn.
You see, this isn´t a problem only the beasty/zoo community faces, it´s the entire 1st world civilisation in post capitalistic society. Love has become almost meaningless, an anachronism. The porn doctrine is the new love now. And I doubt that it will change any time soon..
Just consume. Don´t ask. Consume. Obey the market and consume. Surrender to the zeitgeist.
Great read and observation of it all. Still though, I am really at battle with myself. I love watching male dogs get off to each other and to human girls. But I hate the fact that they do not understand that they are being filmed for peoples enjoyment to watch and get off too. I do hate harmful vidoes of course and do not understand how others get off to that. But I'm frustrated. I love dogs. I don't own one yet, because I wouldn't give him a good home, so I stick to watching the weird and exotic on weird and exotic sites, and saddly bump into harmful videos I dislike right away if I see they have a leash or are forced.
Why do you hate it? Have you asked yourself that?
Why don´t you? Have you asked yourself that?
I understand why I don't hate it. I don't understand why some one would hate it. So that is why I'm asking. I'm curious to see what his reasoning is.
Top-class word salad, right there.
I can say that about myself. But when you say it, you better smile partner!
A non-human likely has no grasp of the human notion of marriage, it is a social and legal construct. The idea of marriage in a human and non-human relationship is patently absurd. How would a non-human indicate that they understand the vows and the details of the contract? How could you convey this concept to a non-human?
As for the porn specifically, apparently male Rhesus monkeys like looking at porn http://neuroeconomics.duke.edu/files/deaner_platt_2005.pdf and it seems to have an affect on pandas too. So it seems your speculation is poorly grounded.
Read what others have said about the symbolic meaning involved in the concept of marriage. Of course animals are capable of thinking in such a way! However, of course, we cannot tell them, "there's this thing we humans do called 'marriage' et cetera" It's basically a formal recognition of an already committed relationship. What I'm saying is that we cannot ask animals, "hey, want to be in a porn on the Internet?" just as much as we cannot ask and cannot convey to them in a way which they would fully understand, "Will you marry me?" And you're just being difficult with me for the sake of it if you are meaning to say that animals would rather be in porn than be a part of a faithful committed relationship come ON dude.
Animals cannot know anything about a camera, why it's there, what it does, the Internet, the completely human phenomena that is pornography same as they can't know about wedding vows and human ceremonies.
But the weird thing is that most people in the beasty/zoo community want animal porn to exist and are okay with it but then they will flip around and talk all this nonsense about how you shouldn't marry your animal love because the animal won't understand it bullshit. If you are going to allow one thing that animals don't have the ability to completely comprehend or have complete knowledge about (especially something as quite frankly RUDE as putting them in pornos without their knowledge, no less), then you shouldn't have a problem allowing them to feature in other things that they also don't completely know what it is they are involved with.
I think, with your question you hit some nerve, a sensitive one...
Do you happen to have any evidence to back up this bold assertion?
So you're just a few sentences in and you're already contradicting yourself. I understand that people make logical errors, I make them too, but have you put any actual thought into what you typed? You assert that they do indeed understand and then you accept that they do not.
You have no idea what my motvators are, I am taking you to task for making absurd statements where you even appear contradict yourself. Do you have any evidence to suport any of your assertions?
And why would they care if they did? They routinely fuck on front lawns, in the fields, and in any location with apparently no concern for who can see what they're doing. Why on Earth would they suddenly start caring one bit if someone far away was watching them? Also, did you even check out the research I linked to in my first reply showing how some non-human animals actualy use pornography? That info alone demolishes you assertion in regard to porn.
No idea what your rant is here, I don't use or support porn. Much of the porn I have seen wasn't what I'd consider healthy or interesting, just a bunch of wank matter for bored heteros looking for something "exotic". Not something I have any interest in.
As for your argument that since they do not understand porn, then marriage which they also don't understand, is okay, since they don't understand it either...There's a lot they don't understand, so all of the harmful actions they don't understand you've just endorsed. Absolutely amazing logic. Do you even think about what you're railing against before you type it out?
LEGAL marriages can't be done with animals for the same reasons that you can't legally marry a child or a tree. You are free to do marriages with animals and invite your zoofriends to the weeding, but know that such marriages are not legally recognized.
This is why we are not avid defenders of legal marriage with animals. But I'm OK if you want to do a non-legal marriage with an animal (IMO I think zoo weddings are ridiculous, but I also find human weeding to be ridiculous)
On the porn topic, that is totally irrelevant to marriage, has nothing to do with it. And wanting porn to exist is a total different topic. An there are valid arguments for wanting porn to exist and be legal.
Valid arguments like your own little flics, I guess,huh?
I don't understand your comment. A "flics"by itself is not an argument, so "flics" by themselves can't be valid arguments.
I agree: Marriages between humans and animals would not be legal.
Filming animals does not require any contract. Filming animals in sexual situations is not really different from filming a cat doing something funny and putting it on youtube, or filming some rare turtles and broadcasting it on BBC with commentary from Attenborough. Animals don't understand the concept of cameras. We have as a society accepted that it's okay to film animals despite them not understanding what film is or how it's distributed. We can also film rocks, human babies, trees, fungi etc even though none of them have the capacity to agree to being filmed.
But marriage is a legal contract. That's why most countries only allow legal adults to marry. It may affect things such as inheritance, taxes, visitation rights and so on. Societal areas that animals have no use for or understanding of, really.
I would be all right with a zoo doing some sort of marriage-like ceremony with their animal partner to prove their love, but I would not want it to have the same legal standing as a human-human marriage.
"Animals don´t understand the concept of cameras"...yes, like a mentally retarded person, so let´s just film having sex with them and put it out there for others to get off on, right? The filming isn´t the problem, but uploading it. By the way: I´m also not okay with putting videos on youtube that feature dogs, cats,babies and little kiddies. Everyone should be protected from unknowingly becoming a "star" on a social media platform, regardess of potential understanding of a camera´s concept. It´s a general question of ethics: publishing should only be allowed if all participants know and understand the whole thing. If they do not because they´re too young or mentally incapable of grasping the concept, publishing should NOT be allowed at all; for me, that´s a matter of respect. The only exception should be films based on scientific research/documentaries. And NO, porn won´t qualify for THAT...
Indeed. But, for the sake of discussion, should it require a contract? If the law did require a contract, would that law be wrong?
When you say "animals don't understand the concept of cameras", I'm tempted to say yes, even humans don't. Sure, we get the remote sensing part of it, but the implications of perfect memory, endless duplication, search ability, and improving technology all seem far beyond human capacity.
Well, the issue with why you can't film humans having sex before a camera and spreading the film without their knowledge is because of human integrity/embarrassment. Most other animals don't seem to become embarrassed. They mate out in the open, even if others are present. They defecate, have social interactions, clean themselves... without even trying to hide it. So I don't think a dog would mind a video of him mating existed.
The problem with animal porn comes with how the animals are treated on set, a lot of commercial bestiality porn producers don't seem to care much about animal welfare. Also, for amateur bestiality porn in countries were bestiality is illegal, it is a risk since the human might have their pet taken away from them.
But videos of animals mating with each other is safe. The animals, even if they understood that even more could watch them mate, probably wouldn't care. It's legal, and nature documentaries are shown on TV during day time, since it's not considered taboo or dangerous for children to watch.
I LOLed :D "We can also film rocks, human babies, trees, fungi etc even though none of them have the capacity to agree to being filmed"
My objection to marriage is that it puts the cart before the horse. The benefits of marriage between humans in the Western world include pension rights, hospital visitation rights, and options to open joint bank accounts.
Hospital visitation rights would be an interesting one, even now, but until non-humans are allowed to own money, bank accounts are patronising fictions and pensions would be laughed at.
We should work on improving more fundamental animal rights, such as guaranteed right to life, before the first glimmer of possibility for something like marriage.
nothing to say that hasn't already been said, but i'm too stupid to just keep my tongue bit.
please read and learn from what others are saying in response...
"Many of you guys want for there to be animal porn"
not sure how much youve seen of this community but i just wanted to add that there is a large group here (including myself) that is against animal porn because the animal is usually mistreated. In general animal porn is not aimed at zoos, rather at animal fetishists that get turned on because of the taboo, degredation etc, and not because they love animals, and there for do not have the depth of knowledge to see/understand the subtle or not so subtle body language that indicates the animal is uncomfortable/stressed/unhappy.
A minority of animal porn is as you describe. The most popular videos happen to be the ones where the woman and the animal are clearly both having fun. I dont know much about animal porn involving men, however.
its the same really. hard to find anything decent from a zoo perspective. I mostly just stick to pictures and use my imagination. there are some decent non-rapey vids out there though.
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What are you, a fucking idiot?
How the fuck do you people live with yourselves? I don't understand.............
How the fuck is attraction to other species so beyond your ability to comprehend?
Because it's disgusting? Immoral? Abnormal? So on and so forth? Animals don't want to have sex with people lmao wtf is wrong with you
Disgusting is an OPINION which I do not share with you. Immoral? According to whom? Abnormal? What is normal? How can you know the feelings of each and every individual animal to have ever lived? There is variation in nature and humans are a part of nature just like the beasts- we are not separate.
well having sex with animals is ILLEGAL so, have you there freak!
The legality of a thing can change. Things should only be made illegal for very good reasons. And I'm a freak because I have a huge desire to be extremely close with other species since I admire them greatly. Thanks.
It won't though. Keep living in a fantasy land where you think one day it will be legal to fuck animals. No it will not, and people like me shall keep that from happening. Man I seriously do not understand how reddit doesn't turn you people into the authorities...
I'm actually starting to think that I'm glad that bestiality is not popular with most people. I don't want everyone to feel and think like how I do because then people would stop procreating altogether. I actually don't want humans to become extinct. But I am in love with interspecies romantic and sexual connection. I don't want to be romantic and sexual with humans. I don't want my way of being to catch on in the general populous.
Don't worry, lmao, it won't. The only hope I have for the future is to lock people like you up away from society, and innocent animals.
eh, its normal for me. Just like how gay guys feel normal. you are who you are :)
the world's a weird old place friend. try not to get too angry about the things you cant affect.
:/
Because it's stupid and we're not delusional enough to perform the mental gymnastics necessary to validate it?
I love animals and I shall relate to them however is comfortable between the animal and myself. If that means that bestiality occurs then that is what happens but you'll never know whether it does happen or doesn't happen so eat that!
With someone as pathetic as you, I can assume it does.
With someone as heartless as you are, I can assume that you would never do bestiality.
Being heartless has no relation to doing bestiality. Stop grasping at straws.
Yes it does. You have no desire to be passionate with animals- heartless.
Animals can fuck their OWN species, they certainly do not want your disgusting prick anywhere near them. If it was "normal" you'd see pigeons trying to fuck cats, you don't see this, do you? If it was so "normal" a hippo would fuck a leopard or some shit. This would never happen, you're delusional. You for real should be so ashamed of yourself, how you even justify this kind of behaviour is insane. How do you function in life at all? Do people that have to be around you know this? Once again, reddit condoning, ILLEGAL, disgusting behaviors over people that most likely need to be put in prison for a long time. I feel sorry for any animal that has no choice but to be near you. Or any of you people on this sub.
I've never had sex with any animal before despite being in close proximity to many and having pets of my own. I never do anything sexual with them. I'm only really attracted to bears anyway. I don't currently live in bear country exactly. I'm a woman so I don't have a prick.. Animals do and have mated with other species. This is something that does happen in nature..
Oh, really? Sources then? I'd like to see the accuracy behind this statement.
...You're attracted to bears. Well book yourself a trip to grizzly land, and see if any of them find YOU attractive. You'll be attractive enough to eat, at least. And sureeeee, I believe you haven't fucked any animals. Lmao! You're posting on a zoophilia sub posting threads about wanting to marry them, Sick. Pretty much screams guilty to me, and any other sane person would agree.
You're a fucking moron.
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