https://m.reddit.com/r/CringeAnarchy/comments/4lbh0y/i_would_love_to_marry_an_animal_partner/
After being disowned by my family AND friends last year, losing my job, having to move out of state and still struggling financially I've longed to find a place where I'm accepted for who I really am. I still love and miss everyone I knew but I know they'll likely never accept me because I'm a zoophile. I've lurked before making an account here and I was happy to find a zoophile community where I could go and be open. But it seems we're hated anywhere we go as evidence of that link. Why are we hated? We're not bad people and we don't do bad things we just want to be loved and accepted, why is it that everyone else is loved and accepted but not us? Please help me understand this. What's so bad about us that this /r/CringeAnarchy group must denigrate us? It breaks my heart to find a home finally but only to find the same hate that drove me from my friends and family the first time :(
Sorry for seeming childish and naïve. Just call me an over sensitive zoophile who wishes groups like /r/CringeAnarchy wouldn't mock us and others.
You've got an ally in me. Don't listen to the haters, live your life as you see fit.
I want to but everyone just sees us as monsters and rapists who will rape every animal we see. My own parents said they never want to hear from me, my baby sister slapped me and spit on me and said she wished I had died in the car accident that nearly killed me, my boss fired me the day after I was "outed" for poor performance but it was because he knew I wouldn't claim discrimination. How could I? Even if I claimed it was because I'm female someone wouldn't hesitate to say it was because I'm a zoophile. Everyone in my town knew, I have a large family and I had plenty of friends but all that changed when I was outed. I made the mistake of leaving my laptop on and my brother used it to log into his email account. I had some........zoo related stuff still open in a tab including an account on a website that showed zoo videos(nothing bad, it was clear that the animals weren't being abused) and he saw. I drove over to my parents house that day only to find I wasn't welcome. Not a single person had contacted me and my uncle practically stole my horse from me. I'd raised Bobby(not even close to his real name) from colthood and I never once hurt him. But hey, I'm a zoophile so clearly I must've been raping him or letting people rape him but I never did such a thing. I know my uncle will treat him well but it still hurts losing him. I've used a fake FB account to check on family and friends and so far everyone is good. But I missed my grandmother's funeral, my big brother's wedding, the birth of my oldest sister's twin daughters and my baby sister's graduation from high school and her first barrel racing win(on Bobby no less). I'm just going through a lot of pain, I've even contemplated suicide in the past couple of months.
Don't you ever think about suicide, your life will get better once you get around a more accepting group of people.
I haven't in recent days and I haven't given it any serious consideration. I just hope I can get past all this. But I still miss my family especially my baby sister, she use to look up to me and wanted to be like me. Plus everyone accepted her when she came out as gay and a small part of me hopes that one day she'll see things from my point of view. After all my family isn't bad but they've just be poisoned by the media.
I understand that... my family knows I'm a pervert but they don't really know I'm interested in dogs and horses... honestly I don't think my family would care all that much if they did know.
I wish my family could be that understanding :/
Maybe your internet family is more understanding :)
It seems that you are but I can't bring myself to hate my family for their reaction, it's not their fault.
Oh of course, I'm sure they still love you even if they don't appreciate your zoophilia.
I honestly hope they do they're smart good people but most of them are Catholics so it's going to take a while.
Also sorry if my comments seem weird, English isn't my first language. My family members are natural citizens but they mostly speak their home language.
I know they love you, I just know it.
I know it too and it's that hope that they truly understand one day and I firmly believe that they will.
Like I said, it takes time. But that day will come.
Fingers crossed!
And hopefully this happens sooner rather than later.
Agreed!
Pretty much to be expected from /r/cringeanarchy. There's a lot of crossover between it and /pol/.
But why? I mean even the more Liberal people there are horrible. Not so Liberal I guess :(
I don't think you could describe a soul there as "liberal."
I guess not :(
/r/CringeAnarchy seems like an over all awful place to be, like all the scum of Reddit and the world is piled up into one hate filled sub.
Also what's /pol/? I'm still reluctant to view it because if it's compared to the CringeAnarchy place I want no part in it.
Because for some reason they think all zoophiles are animal rapists. It's really weird.
But we're not. I'm staunchly against raping animals and I lived in an area with plenty of dogs and horses(and quite a few ranches that seemed to have only bulls) and never once did I do anything to them. I've only ever had intimate contact with my own two animals and by their own accord. I guess when most "zoophile" cases are animals being horribly abused and raped it makes the rest of society see us as freaks.
As a non-zoophile who has over time come to find the zoophile community actually more enjoyable than plenty of others I have been involved in (or at least this one in particular is good, unless things have changed since I was last here quite some time ago), I would say I do not know why. People seem to put zoophiles on the level of child molesters and I wonder if it might be this false idea that fully grown sexually mature animals are basically furry children, which is silly if you look at things objectively, but I guess people have quite a bit of misplaced affection for animals they do not eat 9which is wear the hypocrisy comes in with people flipping out of zoophilia, but not the horrifying things that should never be legal they do in the meat industry). Anyway I guess I am commenting to say we do not all hate you. My friends and I have openly discussed the morality of zoophilia and come to the conclusion that none of use can find a problem with it as long as the animal is a willing participant and though I am sure you can get plenty of support from the people here you are also welcome to message me any time (as is anybody else) to talk/vent/rant/etc or even just play video games online sometime if that is all you need. I hate the idea of people feeling they have nobody to go to. I am so sorry to hear how things have been going. I really hope you find happiness. Life can throw some real punches sometimes, but they say when it feels like things are all falling apart it is because it is really falling into place.
Thank you for that, I needed to hear this. I'm not sure if I'm ready to really debate people that hate me and want me to die but maybe one day I will. But it's nice to see people who aren't zoophiles sticking up for us :)
No problem, I am glad I could help in some way. :) I have debated a few times and though I would not say it went well the majority of times I would say it was not the worst either, though I have only really debated it online. The best public debate I have had was on the Change My View subreddit, which was rather interesting. Anyway I hope in the end this all is a growing experience more than a struggle for you and my offer remains open for as long as you need it. :)
Thank you so much virtual hugs
Anytime :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d7T8261Zn0
This is so cute :)
If you think that is cute you should see when my two nieces hug, it is super adorable, of course if you can get them to, my younger baby niece is quite the little diva :D
This actually lifted my spirits, it's positively adorable to see children hug :)
I am glad, and I quite agree. I love children so much. Both of my nieces use their cuteness to their advantage, especially the baby. And whenever my baby niece gives a hug she acts like she did not really want to she was just doing it for you :D then she tries and acts all tough like she is not really a cuddly baby XD She is such a little diva but she is cute enough to get away with it. :) Whenever she gives knuckles though she has to make sure everybody in the house gets knuckles. She is a little sweetheart to though, sometimes we jokingly call her slave baby because she will do many things when you tell her to, like throw things away, or bring something to somebody, or put things back where she found them and she tries to copy her mom cleaning all the time. When she tries to dust she walks around hitting things with he toy duster :D
She sounds so delightful :)
She is, but she is also a handful. She is smart and pretty tough for her age so she outwits many child proof things. When we put the baby get up she will build stacks with her toys to get out and she has figured out how to turn on and unlock phones. She will be even more of a handful as a teenager I am sure. :D It is funny though a few times we had put her in timeout and then she did something she knew she was not supposed to and when we told her no she quick ran to go sit in timeout like "okay when can I get up so I can do it again?" XD she thinks it is a game at this point.
I don't have much to say on-topic, but I really want to say that it is great to see some non-zoophile allies in this place, especially if you have discussed it with friends. I am a bit curious how you might approach the subject! But anyway, I'm sure many people here will appreciate your understanding and openmindedness... not just for being on "that side of the discussion" but for even just taking a moment to think it through.
Approaching the topic is a bit of a challenge to say the least, but being myself I usually go the no limits route and just kind of talk about it wherever I see fit. One of my friends happened to see my reddit comment history and other friends saw me debate it on a different forum I am a member of. I do not talk about it too much to be entirely honest but that is mainly because I do not have reason to, the same reason I do not talk about other sexualities very often either, but I find learning about them to be fascinating. I suppose one way of bringing it up would be to mention a news story on it, such as that one a while back with a lawyer trying to defend a zoophile claiming it was unjust to stop him legally. Over all this is a bit of a landmine discussion unless you are skilled at guiding discussion and can gage a person well. I would not recommend it for one who can not handle very strong criticism like myself (I am the kind of person that does not care if people hate me, as far as I am concerned that is more their problem than mine. I do my very best to be a nice guy, so I have done my part. If they do not want me as a friend they are welcome to make that choice.) I must say though I find at least last time I was active in this particular zoo community some time ago that most of the zoophiles here I like more than the average person (I think it is because it is about the only community I have found that really gets animals the way I do. Animals are not that much different than us, and zoophiles seem to be the people who most uniformly understand that over any other group.) and it bothers me greatly that people treat them so badly and make people live in fear over some illogical stigma they were dogmatically brainwashed to believe. I sometimes wish there were more I could do to help but at the same time I do not want to be that guy who sticks his fingers into another communities business because they think they know better what to do if you know what I mean. I would like to learn more though, but at this point I have research pretty much all there is to know on paper, the only way I could learn more would either to claim myself a zoophile and try to live in their shoes for a while (not really my style, I do not like to pretend to be other things I am not, even if just for the sake of learning more) or to make friends with one and get to know them as a person (easier said than done, for obvious reasons, though sometimes I suspect one of my friends already is, but the topic has not really come up with him yet and I do not want to try and force it if he does not feel ready to talk about it). Anyway before I start to ramble I think I will end the comment. I am glad I am welcome here though. :)
Yeah, it sucks. I was the one who made the original comment that got posted there, you know. Now, after over 400 upvotes and almost 150 (hateful) comments I'm almost afraid to say anything. There are people who take time out of their lives to come here, read what people have said, pick something they think will make other people react and post it to get a bang out of people. And it's not even vivid descriptions of bestiality they are after, but the idea of deep love with animals apparently.
I don't know why people hate us. I don't know why people think zoophilia is deplorable or sad. I just don't get it. To me, it seems like I'm missing something that is just so obvious to everybody. It's as if the connection just never happens in my brain like it would for a normal person. For zoos, it's obvious that animals can enjoy sexual intimacy with humans. Yet almost everybody else believes in the exact opposite. Try as I might, I have a hard time convincing myself that zoos are in the right about this issue, despite feeling that they are.
have you not thought about maybe they're the ones missing something?
I guess the majority of people argue against us, but popularity of a viewpoint doesnt make it more or less correct.
But what if it is us who are missing something, uh? That's how it feels to me a lot of the time. We have the burden of proof, unfortunately. And the well-being of our animals depends on the rightness or wrongness of our beliefs and actions.
The "burden of proof" should not be hard if you are able to account for your actions. That's first hand evidence and it doesn't get much more reliable than that for an individual.
damn rannoch thats the second comment in as many days where you've wrote pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
thats exactly it. When someone relays information to you it lets them twist the meaning to suit their own personal agendas.
If I may add an important key word: objective firsthand evidence. Without objectivity, who's to say person X's firsthand evidence is better than person Y's firsthand evidence? This will break down the instant it is communicated to someone else, if left unsubstantiated.
Zoophiles are missing something: The soul-felt desire to find a human of the opposite sex that the majority of people experience.
Likewise the "normals" are missing something, in many cases: objectivity.
Re-stating what /u/actuallynotazoophile said, an ad populum argument is not automatically a valid argument.
Maybe starting a thread about why you have a hard time convincing yourself about the validity of the zoophiles' position would be of some help. I suspect the reason most people arrive at the conclusion is because all available objective evidence (beyond arbitrary moral argument) points to it being correct. Maybe some are blinded by what they want to see, too, but I don't think that's typical among the non-porn seekers.
I added the "for an individual" to my statement to make clear we're not talking about communicated arguments, though. If it's not sufficiently clear, we were talking about personal accountability for one's OWN actions. ;)
I would be lying if I were to say that I hadn't at least considered the possibility that I was in the wrong, and every single time I come back even surer that our detractors are full of shit. A great many of them are the same people who will scream till they're blue in the face that animals are unthinking, unfeeling (or barely feeling) automatons who are incapable of making any sort of decision for themselves, such that they are incapable of enjoying sexual contact and conveying that enjoyment.
However, anyone who has spent more than a couple minutes with an animal knows they can tell us many things, and dogs specifically can tell us when they're hungry, tired, excited, fearful, angry, playful, have to go outside, and a whole host of other mental/physical states, but somehow we're supposed to conclude that they still cannot convey (or even want) sexual contact.
So, if we really are to believe that animals are incapable of consent, then they cannot consent to eachother either, so natural matings becomes a free-for-all of mutual rape. This - quite obviously - is silly, so we can easily conclude that they in fact can consent (backed up by just fucking watching them without the "my widdle innocent fluffikins filter" or any number of nature docs). Now that we've established they can (and do) consent, I will not let the anti-zoos ignorance on animal behaviour dictate that everything I do is immediately wrong.
Fully agreed. I have had the same experience and drawn the same conclusions. The tendency for people to go straight to "consent" invites a laundry list of fallacies and deliberate ignorance of context, to say nothing of the massively arbitrary nature of "consent" as it applies to animals in the first place.
All the arguments against it seem to just be people grasping at straws to rationalize their own unfounded disapproval, or people who genuinely are that oblivious to animal communication, which is as shocking to me as the fact that animals have working genitals probably is to them.
I am not talking about "anti-zoos", I am talking about everybody who is not a zoo. If I would compare the situation to another sexual minority, say homosexuality, I see that there are homophobes, non-gay people who support gay people, people who are neutral about the issue and gay people. In zoophilia, you have the majority of the population who oppose it and zoophiles. There are next to no non-zoophiles who support us and very little who are neutral about the issue.
I agree that many people don't know jackshit about animal language and behavior. But there are those who do. There are even those who know animals better than you and I. Why is it that most of these people are also against zoophilia? Shouldn't we have at least a few friends among them if we are "right"?
Based on what? So many of these experts are self-professed, and only now many fields are starting to recognize animal consciousness, and any previous attempt to quantify animal intelligence has been woefully inadequate.
To assume that experts are always correct is a logical fallacy (see: argumentum ad verecundiam, or appeal to authority) even though there is no scientific expert on animal sexuality that I'm aware of (beyond the physical "machinery")
Societal pressure perhaps, or maybe they still don't consider them thinking, feeling, sexually-aware beings (which honestly is a huge barrier, and one most shrink even from the thought of).
There's a whole lot of human exceptionalism surrounding anything sexual. It wasn't even that long ago where the female (human) orgasm was thought to be a myth (again, by supposed "experts") and we're still sitting here with the popular opinion that animals can't enjoy sexual activity, because <sarcasm_on> we humans enjoy sex, and we're better than animals, so they couldn't possibly enjoy the same things we do because that'd put us on the same level and that's just wrong <sarcasm_off>
We're still fighting against peoples' gut reactions that are heavily ingrained by centuries of being taught animals are unthinking, unfeeling tools that are beneath us because we said so. A lot of that is compounded by religion, and if you're religious, I'm sorry but I can't help you with that, and that's something you will have to struggle with (but that's possibly a big cause of your problems, however)
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Is this any different from how we're regarded by others? Ultimately the only person who speaks for me is me, though I'm sure the happiness of my animals says something as well.
When you challenge an anti-zoo, they often get angry. Why? Because they never thought they'd be challenged and they don't have much of an argument to fall back on for something they were so sure of a moment ago, and now they face embarrassment. If they don't have much to fall back on, they obviously haven't thought about it all that much, so why are we to assume they're in the right and know what's best when they've scarcely given it a passing thought? I'm not saying an alternative opinion should be outright ignored, but if someone tries to tell me I'm wrong, their arguments had better stand up to scrutiny, and honestly I'm past the threshold of hearing weak "animals cannot consent" arguments where I reply with my counter and I never hear from them again. It's to the point where I'm beyond even considering that specific point as I'm yet to ever hear anything compelling to back it up.
All that said, just as I only speak for myself, I can't speak for anyone else either, so I won't pretend that all zoos are good, because lets face it, some masquerading as zoos most definitely are not good. It's up to you to determine what camp you fall into, but I would caution against immediately latching onto whatever labels others (especially anti-zoos) toss at you. They're concerned about winning an argument, whereas you should be looking at your own actions and your animals' reactions to see where you stand.
Many times I feel bad over this, I never made the choice for the feelings I've gotten. The idea that a dog can have sexual interaction with a human, yeh it is an idea not many can understand. Personally I wouldn't care.
Wont touch someone elses dog, and if mine wouldn't want contact like that (which is a very plausible cause) I wouldn't. That seems impossible for them to understand.
Of course, from an outside view when you see the news again, someone did something to their animals, and yet again they have neglected their animals. I can understand that, it does make my blood boil as well.
If anything, I wished this could be in the shadows of society, it would be something between me and my partner, behind closed doors. Like any other relation for that matter, it is private. Personally, I'm not too happy with the porn that happens, you cant see the situation behind it, and it gets it in public view
And as of right/wrong, I doubt myself a lot on this. Sanity and that lots. I know animals do have interspecies relations, and even then a load of doubt is there.
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I just fail to understand why it's a problem to people. I think people are of that mind because of arrogance. People latch on the concept of emotions as the sole thing that makes them human and "superior" and just stubbornly deny that animals can achieve such states of mind too.
Well to be fair, I think this isn't that far from reality. It's as private as you make it. People who fucked up generally weren't what you can call careful.
I am surprised on how people under estimate dogs and their capabilities (and many other animals as well) Mainly I find people to over-estimate themselves and have some form of superiority complex.
And if you get caught, you most likely didn't really keep it behind closed doors.
Are you, or are they missing something? Mob mentality is seldom conducive to anything other than the status quo, and their token response to being challenged is to lash out, not armed with facts or logic but sheer decibels.
It's not unique to the zoo argument either; People have been killed for daring to believe the earth revolves around the sun, and in many ways humanity is still the same group of scared, violent apes who will gleefully attack the "others". Sure, they'll always begin by standing on their undeservedly elevated platform of self-imposed moral superiority and at least make a weak outward attempt at discourse, but they always turn belligerent as soon as their platform is exposed as nothing more than a patchwork of ignorance and mock concern stuck together with a mortar of bullshit. Poke at it even a couple times, and it easily begins to crumble. Once they have nothing left with which to debate, they either run back to their echo chamber, hoping that none of the opposing ideas have penetrated their thick skulls, or they attack the messenger, trying to distract from their loss of a debate they were sure they were going to win.
Most people don't seem to like zoophilia, but don't confuse that with support for the antizoos. Their intellectual toolset consists of being loud and obnoxious, which serves to make them look bigger than they really are. Look at OPBEAST; they use bots to get their message out on twitter, and look how small their sphere of influence still is. It's kind of pathetic really, and being scared of them or treating like some big threat is giving them far more credit than they deserve. They have exactly as much power as you give them.
I feel like I am the one missing something. And frankly it seems very dangerous to me to assume otherwise. Zoophilia is a serious crime in many countries. I just can't pretend it isn't so for a good reason.
I agree with what you say. It echoes what I belive myself, as a zoo. And I'm sure every zoo who read that post would also agree. But my problem is that once you leave zoo hugbox land and dare to confront real people with that exact same rhetoric, you will inevitably hit a wall. In this age of extreme sexual liberation and progressivism, we shouldn't have to fight so much for recognition and face so much hostility if we were right... But are we right?
Apologies for getting to this so late.
Then look at the basis for why the laws were formed. Do they hold any water? Chances are good that they were formed based on "eww, yuck" or fanatical "won't someone think of the children?!" arm-flailing.
In many areas homosexuals are still met with much hostility, so is this a case of them being wrong, or just being confronted by raging ignorant assholes?
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The details are different, but there is plenty of overlap in the "If it ain't straight, it ain't right" mindset of the loudest opposition. I wouldn't expect them to be allies, nor would I butt into their quest for acceptance though.
Because they only hear about people like the man in Europe who filmed himself violently raping and torturing a German Sheperd. Those are the only stories that get published, they're quick to say we're all evil people based on the actions of a handful of truly vile people.
But that's just flawed. Many normal people, heterosexual or otherwise, have made the news as rapists and molesters, yet the whole of heterosexuality has never been branded a sickness because of it. Why is zoophilia any different?
Bestiality is horrifying to people from the get-go. Zoosadists and other abusers only serve to make the public perception of it even worse than it already is. By no stretch of the imagination is it ever considered a good thing, except by people who are zoophile themselves.
They can't tell the difference. Bestiality and Zoophilia are the same to them. They don't care if it's a loving sexual and emotional relationship between a human and animal, to anti-zoos a man masturbating his dog or performing oral sex on him to relieve his tension is just the same as the guy who was busted raping his wife's dog.
It's /r/CringeAnarchy. They're a worthless bunch of judgemental children.
You're better than them.
Of course I'm way better than them :)
Lol, why would you put any waight into what anyone has to say from a subreddit like /r/CringeAnarchy XD
Their never the type of group to have anything intelligent to say.
Well it just still hurts to see zoophobia.
why would we care? oh big surprise people hate us, I mean who gives a flying fuck?
Well I try to care so people won't have a worse opinion of us, I make it a point to say sometimes without outing myself again that if the animal is clearly enjoying himself or herself then that shouldn't be bad. If someone is clearly hitting or beating or forcing an animal against his or her will then it's bad it's rape and rape is inexcusable. But I can't remain angry and hateful at anti-zoos even though I called /u/LadySaberCat a bitch. The antis aren't seeing the good zoos so they're not sure how to react to us. I mean how many stories have people seen about a "good zoosexual" who turns out to be a monsters? That doesn't help those who are otherwise open minded but cautious. That's why I care.