I've been gone for two weeks or almost two weeks now, I guess it's been that long and I'm back now but I'm not happy just yet. I want to apologize to you all tried for my failure; I admit I tried to kill myself the day I posted my last post or the day after I can hardly remember. I was upset all day and I was at home so I cried and threw some plates and glass cups and bottles around in the tiny kitchen, I said I wanted to die and why was I alive. I picked up a shard of glass and sliced into my wrist and stood there sobbing and wanting it to be all over before everything went black. I woke up in the hospital with a nurse by my side asking if I was alright and she explained that I'd been unconscious for nearly 24hrs, and the police wanted to speak with me. My neighbor was here, sweet older woman who found me in my kitchen after knocking on my door to ask about a package. She saw me through the window and called 911 and I rushed to the hospital. I have over one hundred stitches because I feel in the glass and that made things worse. I still have cuts all over my body. This was so stupid of me I shouldn't have done it.
The cops wanted to talk to me because it didn't look self inflicted, the glass cuts all over me I mean. My neighbor was worried I'd been attacked because I was found in my typical sleeping attire(tank top and underwear) but I explained everything and my stay was extended due to my attempt. I'm out now and well now I feel horrible because of it, I shouldn't have done this. I let the memory of being disowned, the words of trolls and a pedophile calling me a rapist drag me down to this :'(
get help. if your sexuality is causing you to seriously try to kill yourself you have far bigger problems than whether you like animals or not.
I'm not exactly sure how it goes from here, hopefully someone else can chime in. Did the hosp give you details of anyone you could contact?
a subreddit and other zoos can only help so much...
I'm getting help I'm just not comfortable telling anyone else I'm a zoo so I'm still at a loss.
The hospital gave me the contact information for a therapist.
"getting help" is not a good thing for a zoophilie. you'd have to tell them you're a zoophilie, and as soon as you do, theyll start paying a lot of attention to that, and i think we all know that is not a good thing.
My therapist is open and accepting of it, she even confessed to me herself that she has done things with animals as a way to establish trust with me. Because, most of the reason I went to therapy in the first place is because I felt really depressed and anxious about being out as a zoo around other people.
Granted, not every therapist is going to be like that, my ex who was also a zoo tried to come out to his therapist and she started asking questions and seeming judgemental towards him. He then found a new therapist who was accepting and everything was all good. If things seem sketchy, you can always request a new therapist and the old therapist doesn't have access to what you talk about with your new therapist. They are also bound by confidentiality unless they think someone is in serious danger anyways, and if your therapist honestly thinks you aren't a threat, then everything is good.
[removed]
I'm not a cigarette
OK, well have a nice day and God bless pal.
I have to admit, your comment history is pretty funny.
Thanks bud. Also please don't fuck the poor little doggies they didnt do nuffin. Fuck women they deserve it not little puppies.
I think he's just a troll.
There is only one person in life who you have to please ... that is yourself fuck the rest.
Ok
Hey.. I'm sorry if it's a little forward of me to history trawl, but I wanted to apologize on behalf of the paedophile, at the very least.
You aren't one to urge yourself on someone or something against their will, I can tell that by the way you comported yourself while talking to us (with great civility, I would like to point out.)
You're a good person, and you have an attraction that you're dealt that society.. well, society gives you a fucked up attitude about.
I'm sorry for any harassment you've suffered, and if people are put off by having me in here, this'll be my last and only comment. But I wanted to extend the same hope for happiness and support that you offered us. I want you to know that I consider you a human being worthy of respect and acceptance.
May harmony find you, my sister in humanity.
Curiosity got the best of me too. That thread was a real eye-opener.
Sex with animals is rape, by definition as animals cannot give consent... But so is sexual activity with minors. Here we have a pedophile calling a zoophile a rapist, basically a pot calling the kettle black... The only difference is that there is undeniable proof that pedophilia causes deep negative reverberations for the child victims, and very little that seems to indicate the same for animals involved in zoophilic activity.
I have a great deal of respect for non-offending pedophiles. You guys are way stronger than most of us here.
The key point is that both paedophilia and zoophilia are attractions, not actions. Anyone willing to infer rape because of attraction isn't paying attention to definitions, y'know? So the paedophile is at fault for fallacious assertions.
And I recognize I think that you were remarking upon the inherently flawed mislabeling, so I apologize if this seems like I'm correcting you (I'm not, unless you're actually inferring that both attractions are rape :P)
Yeah, the attractions themselves are not really the problem, unless they cause ulterior distress. But I am not talking about attractions, I am talking about acting on them. When I talk about how "victims" of pedophilia and zoophilia are affected by these things, I imply that some sexual activity has taken place... Otherwise it doesn't make any sense. What never leaves the inside of your mind obviously can't affect others.
Indeed. It just seems that there's always the equivocation between "paedophile" and "molester". It's as fallacious as "straight male" and "rapist".
Says who? I disagree with that massively. Maybe they can't give INFORMED consent, but that is a very different thing, both legally and in reasons we require it. I would argue animals don't need it at all.
Animals cannot assess a legally valid form of consent. Animals can be enthusiastic or passively accepting in the face of sexual advances, but they cannot be consenting.
You can argue that making an argument against the morality of bestiality based on the absence of consent is fallacious, but you cannot argue that animals can consent. By doing so, you agree with a premise you can't argue against...
It's like if I were to ask you "have you stopped stealing at the store?" If you either answer "yes" or "no" you still validate the fact that you have been stealing, even if you have never done so. And that's the problem. Zoos collectively answer "yes" to this question.
"Animals can't give consent" shouldn't be met with "yes, they can!" They can't. It simply doesn't work this way. And like /u/30-30 says often, unless we invent some universal human/animal translator, it will never work this way.
Do you agree that an animal can withdraw consent? I'd argue that if one is able to withdraw consent then one is able to provide consent.
If the question is "do you consent" and the one answer is yes then the other answer must be a no. obviously animals cant speak to provide their consent but if they can withdraw consent through body language and actions then I think they can also provide consent through the same means.
Willingness =/= consent.
So no, an animal cannot withdraw consent, because it cannot provide it in the first place. Through its body language, it may indicate its willingness or lack of thereof to participate in the activity, but this is not what is understood as consent.
People who are intoxicated, coerced, manipulated, severely mentally ill people or severely mentally disabled and children can all be willing to participate in sexual acts ("consenting"), however that willingness is often not considered as true, legal consent. Where does that leave animals? Age of consent is 16 where I live. I could argue almost all 15 year-olds are in a better position to know about sex than any animal, and yet even then they have not reached an age to legally give consent.
The question is not if animals can give consent to sex or not. The question is why is it important that they do (only) when humans are involved?
I think that there are far too many people who over-intellectualize the whole consent issue. And then conflate it with the "unequal power" argument against sex by a more powerful partner with a weaker partner (usually meaning weaker in mental capacity). I think we agree that we are NOT talking about an intoxicated......mentally ill.....or other type of HUMAN impairment. Or humans at all. This is the argument that people make when they compare sex with an animal to sex with a child! Animals CAN consent to sex......as much as is necessary for them. I bet it is VERY rare that when two adult people are about to have sex where one (or both) require a legal document......or even a formal verbal request and answer before they go ahead and have sex. Just like with a person with an (willing) animal......or between two animals.....sex begins with rubbing and touching and other forms of body language. No words are needed and in the case of animals, no UNDERSTANDING of "consequences" or other such human baggage is needed either.
That is because animals do not have regrets.....or second thoughts......or misgivings about what they have done. They live in the moment and if it feels good, they do it. Period. The reason that my argument DOES NOT apply to the aforementioned (by zetacola) "impaired" humans OR with children is due to there in many cases being various "consequences"......only perceived those "impaired" people or otherwise......to engaging in sex with a more "powerful" partner.
Funny. I think the exact opposite. It's seems to me as if people simply don't know what consent is, or don't want to know.
I agree we are not talking about humans. But these are all examples. I talk about these situations to demonstrate that willingness to participate in sexual acts does not automatically equal consent.
And yet you claim animals can give consent?... Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying here, but if I'm not... this is seriously fucked up.
.
And how do you know that? Have they told you?...
There literally 0 research on zoophilia. Would your discourse change if such "consequences" were found in animals "victims" of zoophilic activity as well?
you're skipping over this point from /u/Steve_Wolf --
and when you say:
... though true from a legal perspective, who cares? is willingness not the important part here? the law will never be on our side (or not for a REALLY long time, anyway), which makes the legal perspective of consent irrelevant, rendering the argument of willingness vs. consent an argument of semantics.
throw away the word consent. it's got too much baggage.
maybe not, but they can certainly show that they're willing, and that's all anyone should care about.
Okay, then define willingness. Is the apathy many mares show in animal porn willingness? Is taking advantage of the male´s humping reflexes/instincts willingness?
Willingness is a very flexible term. It is misunderstood by a vast number of so called "zoophiles", usually in a way that fits the "zoo´s" agenda. I hope we agree on the simple fact that "Yeah, please have intercourse with me" isn´t the same as "Gee, I don´t care ". To clearly identify willingness in animals, it takes a shitload of knowledge and experience. One example:it is common knowledge for all those "horsecock lovers" out there that it´s necessary to have a mare in heat nearby to get a stallion aroused. Now you tell me if this is willingness or just a form of nonconsentual rape to "redirect" the stallion´s penis into one of your orifices. Is it willingness when a "zoophile" takes advantage of a calf´s sucking reflex? A calf will suck on literally anything that resembles a cow´s teat;... finger, penis, whatever...
It absolutely isn´t as easy as many members of our "special interest group" intend to make it.The predominant approach of our entire community seems to be rather binary at the moment and the only thing that qualifies as an identifier of willingness is the absence of any defensive reactions in the animal. But is the absence of a clear "No" truly a clear "Yes"? Discarding the consent argument and replacing it with an equally fuzzy definition of willingness won´t do any good. Willingness is a matter of choice, of selection. When your male dog humps you, you may say he´s "willing" to hump you. But if the same dog humps any other "zoo friend" with equal enthusiasm, chances are high that you just take advantage of an automatism here. If we continue with the same old way of thinking to justify our sexual actions, we won´t get anywhere; swapping words won´t change anything.
Generalisations are inappropriate when it comes to "zoophilia" and sexual intercourse with animals. While our community is quick to identify generalisations in our opponents` arguments, we literally seem to turn blind when it comes to apply the same dilligence onto ourselves. That´s why I always recommend to see your own actions from a non zoo perspective. Are your actions truly what you think they are? Or is there a chance you suffer from selective perception and definition bending to justify the unjustifiable? Our online communities almost always tend to be echo chambers and will only reinforce your won viewpoints to an extend where any criticism and doubts are seen as hostile. If we really want progress, we won´t be able to avoid building up a more exact and diverse form of definition what zoophilia really is and what it isn´t. Willingness CAN be ONE indicator of ethical sexual interactions with an animal, but it surely isn´t the only one that is necessary to identify an ethical form of zoophilia. Too much misinterpretation and lack of actual knowledge paired with the unwillingness for genuine introspection in the "zoophile´s" actions is already present in our global communities.
As I said a million times before, we really depend on rethinking and redefining our entire orientation. The old definitions have failed us miserably, the fact that nobody cares for these definitions, moral principles and ethical implications/responsibilities broke our necks. We need to hit the reset button and start all over, folks.
At this moment, the ideology behind zoophilia is comparable to a broken coffee maker and it does not matter if you add or subtract coffee and water to make it run again. We need to repair it or get a new one that´s working...and , for fuck´s sake, we need to protect it from all those who operate it wrong, damaging it.
Or, as the "Einstürzende Neubauten" have put it..."Ende! Neu!"
here you go:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/willingness
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/willingness
take your pick.
"Animals cannot assess a legally valid form of consent. Animals can be enthusiastic or passively accepting in the face of sexual advances, but they cannot be consenting. "
Legally valid is basically informed consent. Animals can make "I enjoy this" and "yes" clear. That is the basis of consent, which does not require a legal context. That would be informed consent you are thinking of.
And of course, not everything is done in a legal context, you know.
This is just playing around with semantics. Of course animals can display their enjoyment or dissatisfaction with any given activity. Nobody on Earth would deny it. However, when people say "animals cannot consent", they are not talking about mere compliance and enjoyment, they are talking about a legal construct that is simply beyond the grasp of animals.
I am not arguing in favor or against such things. I am just stating how it is. I'd never find myself doing acts against the agency of an animal, but it would still be unlawful because of the animal incapacity to consent to them.
No, I really feel that's not the case. "Consent" is a philosophical concept. "Informed consent" is a legal construct. Nearly no one bothers to get informed consent with anything on animals (as it's impossible), but we do occasionally bother to get consent. And that does exist.
well, aside from species where rape is common, how do animals mate with each other? surely some "agreements" have to be going on or the whole thing will be one huge mess
Thank you so much and it's ok I don't mind people browsing my history here as nothing can be directly linked to my identity. I'm glad that you feel this way and you too have presented yourself as a truly good person who seeks to be a positive person in the world.
I wish you the same harmony in life as well brother :)
A pedophile called you a rapist? Odd...they complain about people calling them rapists....the also say they are suicidal amd want to be treated better....hmmm.
I'll probably hate myself for asking this, but how do you feel about "offending" zoophiles?
Honestly, I never actually thought about it. I've done research about and read commentary from pedophiles, hebephiles etc. I never really done any research on zoophiles. I would probably want to do more reading before coming to a conclusion. I do want to be fair.
Wow, thanks.
Well I want to be fair. I belong to a group that gets negatively judged constantly so I am avoiding being a hypocrite. If you have any blogs I can read it would appreciate it.
Look. I am very suicidal as well. I have been fighting with a strong desire to end it for the better part of this year... The only thing that keeps me going is the thought of seeing my family bury me. I couldn't inflict that upon them and so I tell myself to be strong and keep going for their sake.
I don't know the full details of your situation, but let me just say this : don't let what other people say bring you down. Especially people on the fucking Internet. You are not defined by your sexuality and you are certainly not defined by what people think of you.
ouch, i didn't realize that. are you seeing a therapist?
No... But I'll probably be fine. Like I said, I am not "selfish" enough to end my suffering only to inflict it upon others.
Thank you and I keep trying to remind myself of this but it's so hard at times to do so. I'm not sure my family cares what happens, they don't even know where I am.
Please don't hurt yourself :'(
I'm sure there are some people who care about you even if your family does not, although I admit I'd find that hard to believe.
Feel free to PM me if you ever feel the need to. I have never been disowned by my family... but I'm pretty sure I can relate to everything else.
I wish that was the case but when I was outed I lost everyone. Literally.
I'm sorry :(
It's ok
Well I care about you.
Thank you, I still wish I wasn't so sad :(
Suicide won´t end the pain and suffering, it will just pass it onto others.
I'm not sure if my family and friends would care about it. If they knew me being a zoo clouded their judgment of me.
I fucking hate this generic response. It implies someone should live a miserable life in order to keep others from pain. Very codependant and doesn't help anyone
i hope you can find the help you need. it's a tough road, and it's hard not to take things people say to you to heart.
I try not to let it bother me but this time around I snapped.
Well my optimism is slowly returning.
If your family has behaved so badly I am very sorry. There are lots of nicer and more emotionally developed people who will cope with variant sexuality such as zoophila jus fine as long as you are not hurting anyone. Just read around on zoosexuality forums here and elsewhere and you will see that the whole world is by no means equally judgemental about the sexual preferences of others.
There is, however, something about your post that leads me to think that zoosexuality and the difficulties it has caused are not at the root of your current emotional distress. I think there is something deeper that is troubling you and you should get help with that.
Let me be clear, I don't think your zoophilia is the reason you are suicidal.
They're accepting good people but they hear lies about zoosexuals and so they think I'm a bad person. I'm not a bad person.
I think it's just the loneliness that's causing me all this pain, I didn't have a bad childhood or anything so I think I hurt myself to end the pain of losing my family and friends :(
ｈｏｗ ｍａｎｙ ｔｉｍｅｓ ｈａｖｅ ｙｏｕ ｍａｋｅ ｌｏｖｅ ｔｏ ｃｏｗ ｏｒ ｇｏａｔ？
I'm not attracted to cows or goats.
In particular, what I struggle to understand is how you seem to relish the details of your self-harm/suicide attempt.
It all seems, well... a touch histrionic. I don't know how typical this is of people who are suicidal or in great distress, and I don't mean to belittle or hurt you. What seems unusual to me is not so mcuh the feelings you have but the manner in which you express yourself. You might read this link and see if it helpful, (or I might be totally off the mark).
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/histrionic-personality-disorder
I'm a bit confuse here.....how am I relishing my suicide attempt? I don't understand.
I'm probably not going to be much help but if I may try to help let me share my story briefly and I'd love to help you out. :(
I am have still not come to terms with this attraction, but I'm at s better place now. I was first introduced to zoo when I joined a club at school and met a boy who was 18 to my 16 I'll call Alex. Who over that week befriended me, took me to his house, I met his family and then he led me out to the barn one night. He woke me up at around 4AM to help feed the horses. I was excited because animals are awesome and I am still to this day a very caring person. This wasn't about feeding the horses though. He led me in and got into a stall with a stallion. I blushed seeing him undress and that night I just watched before bolting out. I had avoided him for a bit outside school. This experience left me having dreams about my three pets. I had a good relationship with them. Two Staff. Terriers I'll call Jessy(M)and Frankie(M) and a cat, Emillie(F). I had my own IPod and desktop so I sought out information and began the desensitization that lead to mountings and oral down the road.
I shared my experience, stupidly, with Alex who was in short caught and going through therapy. He told others for one reason or another i had oral sex with a dog. Word spread to my teachers and friends. Then, I was developing anxiety and depression I am now I am managing at 18. The taunting and fear of being locked up got to me. That was the fourth attempt at my life in my short years. :(
How I am dealing with my sexuality now is I have reviewed my actions.
I'm 18 and honestly just two years down the line it got better. I'be now found a friend who cares about me and is also a zoophile. My advice to you is to keep your head up and use this sub refit to find good friends who are dedicated to the community. Whatever you have done or if it's just your sexuality PLEASE come to us. Hugs