Non-zoo with a question: (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2016-08-08 17:39:08 by DropletFox
Why does it seem like you all are so hesitant about being zoo? I see posts all the time like "Fighting against my zoo-ness" or "I don't want to be zoo" and stuff. Why are you guys so hesitant? It's almost like you don't like being zoo, and I wonder why you struggle with your feelings. I am genuinely curious because I haven't seen that hesitance anywhere else, in any other community.
Zoophilia is forbidden in most countries, and immoral in the others.
Being a zoo is hard, as we have to hide.
Personally I don't, if I had the option to switch off the feelings, I would. And at the same time I wouldn't, because the strongest relations I have had was with canids, and it feels natural and was the best thing ever.
Its hard to accept your feelings when the only thing you hear and see is that "yer wrong" "yer goin to hell" when they talk about zoo.
I've been taught its immoral (you know that row of things like; murder, rape, pedo, ect) And quite frankly, all the things they'd say about zoo just keeps going though the back of my mind all the time, about others but certainly about myself. My self image isn't doing better under this
I feel like my feelings are wrong, and shouldn't be there. And the lack of being able to talk about your feelings (and if I would be able, lack of words to describe my feelings) is just frustrating.
For me I'd love and care for the animal and be there for it. Make their life complete and having them happy. Seeing joy and happiness when you get home, the warm comfort of a cuddle is just bliss I have fallen in love with a dog, on emotional levels I haven't had with humans ever. But apparently my love consists of only fucking a creature by raping it.
I hope it made sense XD
It makes sense. I think it's crazy that people find types of love immoral. There is too much hate in the world to be fighting against love. I just wish more people saw it that way. I also understand that it's not that simple, that words aren't some magic thing that will make all zoophiles stop hating themselves, but I say them anyway because fuck it I'll do my best.
People won't do that, people can't look past themselves. If there is good advice out there, they'd bend it to their opinion, so they can back it up. Or they fall into repeating bullshit.
Its immoral because its not the norm, and I still feel that I'm immoral, and i cannot point to what would be immoral
There are several factors here: First, the "zoo community" includes a large percentage of unexperienced fantasizers drawn towards zoophilia for other reasons than real love for an animal. The "special snowflake" status, seeking attention/contact, personal shyness leading to involvement in this community because "they fuck animals, they surely won´t judge me for being a weirdo with no social skills", all of that comes into play when talking about the "zoo community". We´re not a homogenous group of people, zoophilia is some kind of a "weirdo magnet" and those complaining the loudest about how hard it is to be zoo are usually those with the least actual experience living the life of a zoophile. Many people see their involvement in the zoo community as some sort of roleplaying, exploring their darkest fantasies and shit in a relatively safe environment. It´s true that zoophilia will add problems to your everyday life, but when you get used to live with that constant scanning of your surroundings, you know for sure that all those "It´s soooo hard to be a zoophile..." complaints are totally exaggerated and far from actual experience. I guess that another "reason" this complaining is so common is self vicitimisation to enhance the "special snowflake" status as well as trying to establish the "us vs. the rest of the world" attitude.
Second: Actually, being a zoo isn´t that hard.What´s really hard for some is to shut up in the appropriate moments. It´s not being a zoo, it´s the common rejection from society these people can´t deal with, as it seems. This constant complaining also is a twisted form of "farming for empathy"...the more you stress out the "fact" how "hard" it is to be a "zoo", the easier you achieve tolerance...well, that´s what they think, not someone with neurons still intact.
So be warned that most of the stuff you read about "zoos" may not be authentic in the least, you could run into a completely made up life story from a fantasizing teenager exploring his "sexuality" through the internet alone. Telling the real ones from the many fake ones that are out there claiming to be a zoophile is what probably is the hardest feature of zoophilia...the real, genuine zoophilia as well as the internet, virtual zoophilia that seems to attract so many socially awkward and/or mentally challenged individuals.
Sure, even bona fide zoophiles will experience some doubts, but due to the fact that my orientation cannot be changed at all, it´s useless to wish for something that won´t happen, right? Zoophilia won´t vanish overnight... none of the real ones will deny that simple fact and thus won´t ever try to emphasize their wish for "being normal". We are what we are and nothing can and will change that. Building a whole life story or a self image on the "I wish I were normal" attitude just points out the massive insecurity of someone who lacks the conviction and self confidence that is obligatory if you ever want to lead a good life with your animal partner.
So, please don´t take everything a self proclaimed "zoophile" writes for granted. One thing you are absolutely right on...this community is special...no other community is that gullible and totally uncritical about being lied at, no other community is so inviting to anyone, even those with clearly recognizable dubious motives, no other community is so complacent when bullshit stories are told and self proclaimed "activists" ruin the already fucked up public image of zoophilia.
I figured some of the stuff was fake, but wow I had no idea the community was that diverse and attention-seeking was that common. What percent of subscribers do you reckon are actual zoophiles?
Take 30-30's comments on "fake zoophiles" with a grain of salt. He has his own definition of what it means to be a zoophile that not everyone here agrees with.
ok, yeah, he's a controversial redditor from post history. Thanks.
Don't entirely disregard what he has to say either, for the record. We aren't a monolith, of course, and it's worth understanding that we disagree and agree with each other on various things all the time.
Bleh. It's times like this I wish there was more research on the subject of zoophilia so that questions could be answered with at least a hint more objectivity.
Alright. I'll regard it but with a grain of salt.
Well, deciding to call oneself a zoophile is not something to be taken lightly. Coming to terms with being a zoophile can be very difficult and often takes a lot of time to reflect on yourself. On the other hand, some people have no problem calling themselves a zoo and just accept it after very little deliberation, unfortunately that was not me. Probably took me around 5 years to go from first having those feelings to coming to terms with, and calling myself, a zoophile.
I dont mind being a zoo ever since I came to terms with my zooness but I have no doubt life would be easier if I wasn't a zoo. It would be easier because being a zoo is a very marginal sexuality so there are very few guidelines from which you can take advice to live your life. Add into that the tabooness of it meaning there are very few places and people to ask for advice and you can see why its a difficult thing to come to terms with.
Have you not observed homosexuals hesitating before coming out? is this a generational thing maybe because some of my friends have come out but only after I had suspicions of them being gay for years beforehand.
Wait.. what about your username??
heh, short version is I made this account when I was still in denial about being a zoo but I wanted to ask questions about it to the people here. Questions got answered and I came to terms with being a zoo and I just kept using this account half for humorous reasons, half to remind me of the mental place I came from.
I much prefer living as a zoo rather than living in denial.
Ok,ok.
Huh, I always assumed it was just a joke, or intentional irony, or something.
well it pretty much is now, but yeah it/I started off different.
Then you probably don't watch the same subreddits I do:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ainbow+gay+lgbt/search?q=i+don%27t+want+to+be+gay&restrict_sr=on
multiply that with the much stronger "taboo" factor and you have your answer.
Alright.
I think part of it might be a result of new users coming here for advice on attractions they haven't had time to fully accept yet.
And yeah, they'll tend to be hesitant, for the reasons that others have already elaborated on here. But my point is that this doesn't necessarily apply to those who've had time to become comfortable with their orientation.
It is worth mentioning that I did some interviews of zoophiles a while back, and one of the questions I asked was "would you change anything about your attractions?". By and large, the most common response was "No, I would not". So take that into consideration - certainly, my interviews were not a representative sample, but then, you are also not getting a representative sample when you scan across this forum and notice a trend in posts.
On a personal level, I am very comfortable being a zoophile. I'm not hesitant at all, and I'm happy with who I am.
Huh. Thanks for the input!
I can agree with this one fully. =_= I am one of those users. Should I find a different community that is this accepting of my fantasies as this one is? I cannot seem to find one with the same amount of effort in text and mindfulness of one another like this one has. If there is such a reddit/website that has such an expectance, I would love to be pointed in that direction, so as to not bother this community with my pitiful stories/ comments.
I might get some hate for this......but here goes. I have spent many, many years on and off of zoo boards and talkers, but never really actually belonged to any on-line community (I mean really BELONGED.......although I have conversed from time to time with others). Your question is one I have often asked as well. I could never (and still really cannot) understand the hesitation some (even MOST) have even calling themselves a zoophile......let alone taking any pride in it. I hear zoos say all the time that they don't need any outside codification of how they feel about their partners (a reason many give for hiding it to the point of "training" their partners NOT to show any real affection in public.....LOL). Seriously. Then in the same breath say the reason for that is due to how "hard" it is to be a zoo when there is such hate and vitriol and disgust from those who may not understand how deep the love can be between a human and a non-human.
Now this is my personal opinion, so those who feel the need to jump on me for responding in this way to this post can just rest easy: Being a zoophile and having such a deep and intimate connection with dogs is something that I absolutely LOVE about myself......and it is truly one of the few things about which I will openly say that. This MIGHT have something to do with species dysphoria (yes, I believe I should have been born a wolf :) And that is in contrast to those who might have a sexual orientation towards dogs, but not really know why. Of course, like many others it took decades to figure it all out, but I can honestly say that I was never "ashamed" about how I felt. I NEVER wanted to be any different. I only stayed JUST as hidden as I needed to in order to keep my mates safe........and I work in the dog fancy too so imagine how that gives me a bit MORE incentive to be secretive than the average zoo who's biggest worry might be that the family finds out. And in case you are wondering, I AM OUT to my family and they see me with my and other dogs and are not in the least troubled by my sexual orientation. Of course, my muzzle is gettin' pretty darn gray and I have been on the Earth a L-O-N-G time ;)
You have it lucky compared to some stories (which I do take with a grain of salt.) Thanks for the input.
Your comment is just exactly what I think.
I'm not ashamed for being a zoo and I love to love canines.
I am really inspired about your comment, and how you are not ashamed for people to see that you identified as a wolf. Your story sounds beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
I'm not hesitant with being a zoophile at all, it just feels natural to me. I tend to connect with non-humans better than humans. The only difficulty would be staying closeted around family due to any physical acts being illegal. They also view it as immoral and unthinkable. Apart from that though, I have no issues.
Im very hesitant about it because there is just not enough research and studies done on the animal side and the human side of the story. What impacts the animals minds. And Why am I attracted to animals? What are the reasons for such attractions and is it really justifiable. I would love to learn these things. But I have not many tools or websites or even books in any library that could help answer some of these things, with good solid answers. I come here because I see others come here with the same anxious uncertain emotions I have. I feel more welcomed into this community because of that. Yes, I am still anxious about it, I am still hesitant about my attractions. I am wanting a canine partner. That has been my dream for a very long time. I struggle a lot with it because I really want to make sure the partner I live with is happy healthy and that I am stable to have him. Should I really own a dog if I know I am going to do things with him? What if he doesn't enjoy it after I take the time and effort to give him a good home and love..? Things like this make me unstable.. My fantasies seem to stay fantasies. In my case, it is a good thing. Once I am older, who knows my worries might change. There might be more answers to some of my hard questions. I do not really consider myself a Zoo. Since I just live with fantasies and how I still live with my parents. <_< yeah.. Maybe this is why I do not go the extra mile to find a partner.
Well, after so many telling you there's something wrong with you for being a zoophile, it's hard to not let it get it to you now and then. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with zoophilia really. But I still worry about what people would think, about how it would affect my career and friendships if more people knew...
And well, there's plenty of hesitation and shame in the lgbtq and kink communities as well, it's just that they've come further. A lot of countries protect homosexuals from discrimination, those same countries tend to ban bestiality. Still, there are gay people ashamed of who they are, because they are a minority and people have prejudices. They've also managed to build a strong community, while we don't really have one...
There're a couple reasons for the resistance to acknowledging who they are, and some have been described already.
It's difficult for people who aren't part of a (near universally) maligned group to understand what it's like for people to truly hate everything about you based upon one single detail. They could have been your best friend or significant other, and knowledge of this one aspect of your life will forever change how they look at you. A select few may be able to see past it to the person beneath, but it still colours their perception.
Being a zoophile isn't terribly kind to newcomers either, because you can't just saunter down to the library to get unbiased information on what they're feeling and it's VERY doubtful they have anyone in their peer group they can confide in. Zoos who have been around online a while are probably their best source of information, but they have walls of mistrust that need to be negotiated (out of necessity. The more you have, the more you have to potentially lose, and all it takes is one slip-up to someone with malicious intent and it's all over) if you want to connect with anyone on a level beyond the cold chat rooms. Further, there are certain groups who take delight in ruining lives, and the "newbs" are easy prey; They have have to put themselves out there more than the old-timers to... prove themselves (for lack of a better phrase) and they likely don't have the knowledge of just HOW careful they have to be with information, be it about themselves or others. You have to be so vigilant that I still find it an odd experience having the luxury of being around some of the friends I've made in the wider zoo community and can thus talk more freely about certain subjects.
Next, life - let's be honest - would be a whole lot simpler if we were all straight (or even just gay, as strange as that might sound). Then we wouldn't have to dodge questions or listen to well-meaning ignorant people - who absolutely have to remain ignorant! - tell you exactly what you need. Maintaining a double life can be exhausting, but it's necessary. Society will pressure you to live as they live and want as they want, but bending to that oppressive will just leads to being miserable, so I find the sooner you realize that you can't please everyone and this is your life, the sooner you can start trying to make yourself happy.... for once.
Being in constant inner-conflict is a tough way to live, but it's the reality of the situation for a lot of people at one point or another in their lives. People who speak out against zoophilia (when they think they're in good company) as though it were inherently abusive and how they deserve some heinous form of torture have no idea what that can do to someone who has to remain silent for their own sake, and possibly that of their animals.
There's also the large discrepancy in lifespan for those we love, so we face loss much more frequently than the average person.
So, now that I've rambled far longer than what you were likely looking for, I'll try to answer your question thusly: Many (though I will not speak for all) would rather not be zoophiles not because they don't want to love animals, but because being "normal" gives you so much less to constantly worry about. They worry about their and their partners' safety, and also letting down those around them who have certain expectations and hopes for how their life would turn out.
I've painted a pretty bleak picture of what being a zoophile can be like, but it's not all bad for those of us tuned that way, however I run the risk of further literary diarrhea if I were to try to describe the good side as we see it.
You summed everything up pretty great here. If you want to write about what you enjoy about being a zoo I would be interested to read it.
Thanks. :)
I find the good side of zoophilia a little harder to define as it's a bit more subtle and not so obvious as it is with most of the "bad".
Generally I take somewhat of an ambivalent stance toward it, as I would never characterize it as "this is awesome and everyone should try it!", but it's a large part of who I am and I have accepted that. I love animals, but the sexual side.... I just feel like "it is what it is". It's who I am, and it's what I know. Something about the way they look and the way they move just "does it" for me on a level I can't really explain. It just speaks to me and feels "right".
Probably my favourite thing about the whole package is that it just brings me closer to who they are. There are fewer barriers in place between us, and while our relationships do not need to be sexual, it can be if they want it to be, and it's an intense positive feedback loop in that making them feel good makes me feel good.
Next favourite is that it has helped me to observe; to look at as many details as possible in an animals' expression to help me communicate. I never thought of them as inherently lesser or incapable of thought or emotion (and I don't know if that is a symptom of some form of latent predisposition for zoophilia, or that this emotional and sexual inclination was born - at least in part - out of considering them different, but not beneath me. An interesting "chicken and the egg" scenario, maybe). I won't pretend to have some telepathic link like some zoos do, but I do think that I can communicate better than the average person because I don't disregard signals if they don't fit neatly into whatever small suite of characteristics I've arbitrarily decided they're limited to. Ok, I'm rambling again. Moving on.
Another is that I think some zoos may be more introspective than the average person (potentially to a fault), if only because there's so much pressure on all the perceived evil of even thinking zoo'ish thoughts, that it takes time to emerge from those thoughts with the conclusion that there's nothing inherently wrong with it. In fact, I think it's healthy to analyze your thoughts and actions in such a way, because how can you really know you're on the right side of things if you haven't ever considered the possibility that you aren't? However, I'm guilty of being a little too analytical at times and retreating into my own thoughts, so it can also be overdone some.
Another one doesn't deal with zoophilia specifically but moreso about the animals themselves: There're no ulterior motives and they just want to spend time with and do things with you. Their love is genuine, and it just makes me feel wonderful.
wow that was as good as I expected it to be. I can never get my thoughts written down properly so to read something that I can relate so closely to is humbling to me.
Being a zoo really is beautiful sometimes.
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Listen, man...I believe you already know what I´m all about and how I perceive the usual "zoo narrative". I´m way more comfortable with people like you, doubting, questioning, not falling for cheap excuses and easy answers.
Although it may sound a little illogical from the mouth of someone who is zoo exclusive and has gathered nearly 30 years of actual experience, I can´t avoid to state that we, the zoo community, are very often way too quick to conclude our own "harmlessness", we are way too complacent with binary logic and black-and-white viewpoints. As always, the truth lies in between the two extremes of "zoophilia = rape" and "zoophilia = totally harmless" and what hurts my brain the most is when so called zoophiles try to argue against all the visible evidence that is out there in the form of porn, in postings that give insight into the mindset of individuals, showing definite signs of mental issues.
As I said: the truth lies in between the extremes. There obviously are cases where "zoophilia" is nothing more but a symptom of severe trust issues with humans in general, there are cases where "zoophilia" is used as a simple excuse for self centered and unempathic behavior. But there are other cases where all of the common accusations won´t apply. The generalisations are what makes it so incredibly difficult to dig through, to reach the best approximation to "what the fuck is going on with all these animal fuckers out there". One thing you shouldn´t forget is the "modern", online form of zoophilia...sometimes, too much information can totally blur vision, making it impossible to see through the fog. When I "started" my "zoo life", there was no internet and only a few books out there dealing with this orientation. Many would say that this was a horrible time to find out you´re a zoophile, but I totally object that. Without all of that bullshit that´s floating around the net, I was forced to question myself, my actions, my way of thinking constantly. As a zoo, you almost became some kind of a hermit and were forced to come to terms with yourself all alone. You surely can imagine that much thinking was done, much questioning, heavy doubts had to be endured...well, basically all that is included when developing a character. Today, it doesn´t take much to call yourself a zoo. Whenever your crotch itches in the presence of an animal, you can google and read plethora of apologetic, assuring texts. You can "consume" rather than "create". That´s what I call "supermarket mentality"; doubts, criticism and anything else that will disturb this is heavily despised in our community, as you surely have realised. Contact with the "normophiles" has been terminated by most "zoophiles" and our orientation has mutated into a tool for propagating the stupid "free love" agenda. Most heavy anti reactions from the normals can be easily explained by this; we have created some sort of bubble around us instead of reaching out to the normals. A kind of trench fight mentality has spread among the "zoophiles". But it´s our duty to take the first step, it´s us that demand something from society, not the other way around.
You surely know how controversial I am in here. You have pulled off that little stunt some time ago that unveiled how stupid and self righteous all this zooish blahblahblah is from a normal´s viewpoint. It surely isn´t the worst thing to assume that your doubts towards being a zoophile are not totally made up and symptoms of personal insecurities; the doubts are justified and we zoos are far from being in possession of "the final answer", although many "zoos" behave like they have it. Some even argue against logic and experience, for example when they insist that animal brothels are nonexistent. In every form of sexual deviancy, there are people trying to make a happy buck out of it and it is audacious, stupid and beyond any reason to deny that zoophilia is the only deviancy where not even a single asshole sells animal sex to strangers. Yet, this is "zoo narrative"...a desperate attempt to justify this orientation against any evidence out there, like the huge numbers of ads on BF and other sites, there´s even porn out there proving that animals are used as hookers for willing strangers.
But I digress: having doubts like you do is actually HEALTHY and ESSENTIAL for any zoo! You shouldn´t torture yourself that much, but take it as what it is, a kind of safety mechanism keeping you from entering that "zoo bubble" I mentioned before, leaving all doubts behind, becoming deaf and blind to all the stuff that´s going on out there. Convictions cause convicts. The antis are trapped in their convictions, but the "zoos" are too. The truth lies in between the two extremes and you, my friend, are more of a true zoo than anyone else that has been blinded by echo chambers and deafened by the "zoo narrative" played ad infinitum. Your doubts actually honor you and equal your potential to become a true zoo. You don´t take things for granted like many others in here, you are not resistent to doubts and criticism, you are open and questioning your orientation ....and you put the wellbeing of the animals before everything else, even your own desires. Let me be perfectly clear on this: this doesn´t disqualify you as a genuine zoophile, it QUALIFIES you as a zoophile. Only when this amount of doubt is still intact, zoophilia won´t mutate into the usual self centered and self delusional , anthropocentric shithole many "non doubting, convinced" zoos have made it into. "I went to sleep with confidence and the morning after, I saw she was a whore. I went to sleep with doubt and the morning after, I saw she was a virgin." Aleister Crowley
Doubts are healthy. They keep you from falling into traps. They make you question things others take for granted without any cerebral activity. You shouldn´t be depressed having them, embrace them as they are what separates a true zoo from becoming an animal rapist over time. Be glad you have ´em, you STILL have ´em. It´s actually a good idea to use the opinions of others to define what you are, but you need to learn how to differentiate...your "barometer" is only useful when it shows the air pressure of YOUR location, not that of some place two thousand miles away from you. You need to see our orientation through the eyes of "normophiles" to learn why the barometer shows such shitty data....the porn, the "zoo" sites, the headlines when another fencehopping asshole is caught etc...but you also need to see how all of this isn´t related to zoophilia the way I try to promote it.
Anyway...keep your doubts, but don´t let them devour you. It´s healthy and right to keep your scepticism. It´s also healthy and right trying to keep the connection with the "normophiles"...in fact, that´s the only chance we zoos will ever have to become more tolerated. Turn foes into neutrals and neutrals into friends....and hope for scientific progress...the day the animal-human translator is invented will be our day. Until then, there is no 100% certainty and all claims are nothing more than assumptions..from the anti side, but from our side as well. Doubt, criticise, question yourself, your orientation and your community. Only scepticism grants progress.
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Exactly this attitude is why I believe you´re more of a true zoo than most others. Leaving the echo chambers trying to find truth instead of the mutual reassurements of "harmlessness" the echo chambers provide is one big indicator you´re really putting the animal wellbeing before any comfortable narrative.
I wish you the best of luck in trying to find peace of mind with your orientation and hope you can see through all of the chaos one day. Being lost isn´t bad per se. It will give you the opportunity to rebuild, create and forge a view of the world and your orientation you can live with in peace. The process won´t be a pleasant one and the outcome is totally open, but when your orientation is truly an orientation, you´ll find that small place, the eye of the tornado, in which you have achieved awareness for everything, true inner peace and total independence, from society as well as from groups like the zoo community.
Don´t forget what it´s all about....the animals. All the pro- and antizoo gibberish, all the positive and negative prejudices...it´ll all disappear into meaninglessness when you reach that one, certain point of true independence. When you have reached it, you´ll laugh and cry simultaneously, seeing through the cosmic charade for the first time.
I hope we´ll meet again after your break...I really wish you can find your balance, your peace of mind and that special form of certainty, being completely at terms with your orientation. I hope you can benefit from what you´re about to experience.
I don´t know if you manage to find a reference point to rely on, ´cause in our world, there is no absolute certainty. But you´re right, there is more than the usual apologetic mindset of zoophiles, there´s this plateau right below the "100%certain" peak, where living with zoophilia is ethically possible although you´ll never reach the top 100%. The path to this plateau cannot be found on the internet, it isn´t hidden in zoo forums and such, it lies within yourself. Only if you search within yourself, you´ll be able to find it...
The therapist can only guide you in your quest, the hard work has to be done by you and you alone, be aware of that. But if you manage to sort it all out by yourself, you really have set yourself free. And if you can pull this off, you surely can ensure the absolute wellbeing of YOUR animal partner in a future zoophile relationship. It doesn´t matter anymore if zoophilia "is" harmless" or "rape", ´cause you´re free and don´t "belong" to anyone, to any group, except yourself and your partner.
My best wishes for you, mate...and take care. I´m looking forward to see you return in here....with all the answers you are searching for. Bye
http://www.virped.org
Not that I advocate being a complicit little bully-victim...
I'm completely fine with being zoo. I don't wish to be any different. Yes, I have to be somewhat secretive about it and that sucks, but I know who I am and who I am is good with me.