Okay, so, I want to make some kind of a documentary or something about zoophilia. I'm 18, find talking to people an awkward experience 90% of the time, and have absolutely no way of distributing this documentary even if I ever make it, so don't go thinking it's professional or anything like that. I'm just interested, I guess, in understanding things like this.
Now, I personally don't 'get' it, as in, I'm not attracted to animals. However, I totally believe it's okay to be. My basic opinion on all things to do with sexuality is that you don't choose to feel it, so it's okay. The thing is, you do choose to act on it, and that's where I think things get complicated for me when it comes to zoophilia. If anyone is willing to answer some questions to do with their attraction to animals, the act of being sexual with an animal, or anything along these lines, please let me know. I will do my best to keep as open a mind as possible, and hope you tell me if I say anything offensive or just not okay. Like I say, social situations aren't my thing at the best of times, so I'm certainly going to make a mistake at some point.
Now ideally I'd like to have a phone call or skype call and record the audio. If anyone is up for this, let me know, but be warned, it might be an awkward disaster and I might wimp out pretty early on and just not go through with it.
However, messages will be just as good. Bear in mind that any messages we share might end up on the internet, I will censor any user-names and try to get rid of any identifying features if it does, but if you're not comfortable with it, yeah, be warned. So, if you think you might be okay to answer some of my questions please privately message me.
I realise this is a very strange request and probably something most people will ignore, if anyone is interested though, I'd appreciate it :) Thanks!
I dont get why you want to talk to someone live under the premise of making a documentary if you dont plan on doing anything with it. You didn't give a reason why you want to do this. It sounds very suspicious to me, you can see why right?
If you have questions ask them here so you can get answers from more than one person whose views might not represent everyone else.
Fair enough. Well, the reason I say I wont ever do anything with it is because I cant like, picture how I would do anything with it. However, I don't see the point in making something unless I put the effort in, and well, even if I don't have any real means of putting it out in the world I'd like to try, so I suppose saying I don't plan on doing anything with it is unfair, because if I ever got the chance to I would (or, you know, could just stick it on youtube.)
The reason I suggested private messages is because I feel like a one to one conversation is easier to digest and follow if this doc ever gets made, and allows for separate opinions to be more separate, as in, instead of one person saying one thing, and another person disagreeing, they can both say their different things without the disagreement. I guess I just kind of feel like it is easier to present separate ideas as ideas that are all valid rather than different people who disagree over what the real truth is, because there probably isn't a real truth when it comes down to it.
That being said, all of the above is picky and unimportant, so I'm happy to ask questions here.
So, I have seen talk of how animals can give consent, and I was wondering how specifically you can tell? Sorry if this is something that has been asked and answered elsewhere, I've see some replies on the subject in other places but like you say, it's good to get different views.
Pm me
On skype usage: Quote: "...Skype chat and other conversations flow through servers at Microsoft. They are decrypted there and , sometimes, analyzed or changed before being re-encrypted and sent on their way. Microsoft has legitimate reasons for operating this way: it helps avoid the spread of malware (...). This means Microsoft staff can see and hear and read and store and share your conversations if it suits them. That would be rare but possible.
It also means that governments and their agencies with the power to compel Microsoft, its divisions or its personnel can also have access to your conversations. Microsoft complies with lawful orders from most governments. "
You see why proposing the usage of Skype isn´t a particularly clever idea if you want to get in contact with people that are deemed criminals in several countries? Especially when talking about having sex with animals, there are few more direct ways to get your ass into deeeep trouble...maybe doing it with your quadruped right in front of your local police station would be one of the even more quicker ways to screw up your life. ;)
On consent: To be honest, there is NO way to be 100% sure if an animal is really consenting. Until an animal-human translator that is perfectly and flawlessly working is invented, this question will stay a grey area and is mainly based on personal beliefs. Of course, there are certain hints like body language and such, but this also is open for any kind of interpretation and what zoophiles say is a dead sure "proof" can easily be debunked with another mindset, that of someone fundamentally opposed to zoophilia, for example. I personally believe that coercion and "training" animals for having sex with ´em is much more common than most "zoos" will admit.
But, since there is no way of being 100% sure, all we zoophiles can do to exclude the possibility of "accidental" rape is to keep our minds open, always questioning our actions and ourselves. We also have to avoid becoming too convinced of our own justifications and narrative, ´cause "convictions cause convicts; once you think you have the absolute and final truth, your mind will stop evaluating your actions and what once may have been mutual pleasure can easily degenerate into anthropocentrism and outright rape, with the rapist being completely blind and unaware of his bad deeds.
Another thing to consider: humans don´t give a flying fuck about animals´ consent when they forcefully impregnate, keep them in areas too small, "train" them for convenient handling, slaughter them, hit or hurt them on purpose, etc. pp. This isn´t meant as a defense, it just points out that the consent concept seems to matter only when sexuality is involved. Nobody gives a shit about killing animals as long as it is done "humanely"...so I use the same argument here and say that consent does not matter that much as long as sexual acts are done in the most possible "humane" ways. I´m not using the common "harm principle" here because it usually doesn´t involve longtime psychical effects on animals and is mostly focused on visible injuries. My approach is going further and involves any form of behavioral changes: as soon as an animal is affected in a non-natural way, I call it harmful. Imagine a stallion "trained" to mate with humans, for example. Since it is natural for him to be aroused only in equine mating season, "training" him to be "ready" whenever the human wants it will impose unneccessary stress...yes, mating season is stress for a stallion. "Training" him also has negative effects: once he "learns" that he can mate with those funny looking bipeds, he´ll try to do it whenever he´s in the mood. And if you realize how dangerous 500 - 750 kilos of horse can get when aroused, how uncontrollable they are, it is very likely that things will happen that are not supposed to happen.
You see, the consent issue cannot be answered in a few sentences and is much more complicated than it may appear at first sight. Until science starts to do some genuine research, no one can give you a definite answer...but due to the controversial nature of this taboo issue, no scientist dares to initiate such studies. Even Hani Miletski and Andrea Beetz, two scientists who have done nothing more than contacting "zoophiles" (anyone claiming to be one, to be precise) and writing down their "stories" without checking the facts, are attacked by most other scientists.
One final note: the so called "zoo community" is nowhere near being homogenic. There´s no set of rules that is widely accepted and you´ll probably run into several different individual points of view and attitudes. Porn addicts without any real experience, sadomasochistic folks using animals as a means of degradation, taboo breakers getting aroused mainly because "animal sex is so smutty", fantasizing manchilds and young folks "exploring" their sexuality via the internet, plain ass bestialists only in it for the easy and cheap fuck, FATWs ("fucks anything that walks"), people using animals as a "detour" ("I´m hetero with humans, but gay/bi with animals, ´cause with animals, it´s not gay"), people who cannot have their 24/7 orgy type of life with humans, so they are turning towards animals to achieve it, substitutional bestiality/"zoophilia surrogata" folks who are too shy to approach humans and so on...you see, there´s much to consider; generalisations don´t work here.
For further info, you are free to use the private message system of reddit...sorry, but I won´t use Skype or any other social media platform.
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Okay, so the Skype thing, you are completely right and I am completely stupid. And with regards to consent, you make some really interesting points that I've never considered before, because you're right, the majority of people don't care at all about the safety of animals when it comes to, y'know, eating them. Just sayin, your reply is very very interesting and you make some really good points, thank you muchly.
Now some questions I have (for everyone) --->
Along the lines of how horribly we treat animals, and how it only seems to matter when sexuality is involved: for people who are attracted to animals, be it sexually or romantically, is the idea of eating meat for example distressing? Have any of you, for example, become vegetarians, or decided to not fund or be a part of any behaviour that is known to harm animals, because of your feelings towards animals?
Would you consider zoophilia (in your case) to be a kink, or a sexuality, or something in between, or something else entirely? I feel like there is a heavy emphasis on the sexual interest people have with animals when it comes to the topic, but do any of you consider yourselves zoophiles who do not have sexual contact with an animal, but do consider yourselves to have a relationship with an animal? How inherent is sex when it comes to zoophilia? Apologies if this sounds silly, but I mean it as a genuine question, do any of you 'date' animals? As in, are there animals who you have tried it out with, but who you've decided not to pursue?
I'm interested in the similarities and differences between a relationship with a human and a relationship with an animal, because I imagine the feeling of love is the same? But then with human relationships there is a lot of clarity (and complexity, of course) through language, and so the necessity to pay very close attention to body language with animals, which is much more open to interpretation, must make consensual relationships and sexual acts with animals much more confusing. I feel like this has been talked about but if there are any differing views I would like to hear them.
You ought to compile a list of the questions you've prepared for live interviews and post it so people can respond in whatever way is most convenient for them.
You're right, I shall do this as soon as possible.
I strongly suggest that you should hide the people's identities the best you possibly can. This stuff can destroy lives
You are right, and I will be as careful as I can. I hope this isn't a like, offensive or insensitive area, but I do feel like there is a lot of suspicion in this community, which of course I understand and it makes a lot of sense. But I was wondering, is it something that happens, where people get outed or arrested or anything thanks to people on the internet? If so, how does it happen? Is it common?
I completely respect and understand if this is either not a cool thing to ask about or is just plain stupid, if so, please let me know, I'll back off.
i dont know for certain how common it is, due to the lack of cases of zoophiles speaking semi publically, but its never a bad idea to be safe.
and you dont have to back off at all, i think what you're doing is wonderful!
I feel like if you think that "it gets complicated" with "acting" on zoophilia, then I wouldn't want to open up to you about it. I would already feel judged.
I understand that, and I suppose I can't exactly say I have an entirely open mind, because it's very hard to escape the social stigma around the topic. I guess basically what I'm saying is, yeah, that was judgmental of me to say. Are there people who you do feel comfortable opening up to? I imagine its a scary thing to talk about, right? (I could be verily wrong, do say if I am)
I talk to close friends about it. I wouldn't exactly say that it's scary to talk to people about (for me personally), I just don't like it when people respond with disgust. I always tell potential partners about it and if they're not okay with it then that's a deal breaker.
Edit: Personally I don't see how it's very difficult to overcome the social stigma of it. Just think about it critically and it's a somewhat understandable attraction. That's just my opinion though.
I think I personally don't have a stigma around being attracted to animals, I don't see it as any stranger than being attracted to anything at all, humans included. I think that sexual consent is more complicated, but then, I don't doubt that most who engage sexually with animals care for them deeply. I don't have a problem with the people, I don't think. And I think that it's interesting to focus on people rather than the issue of consent, really, simply because as 30-30 said in a comment above, it's not really something there's likely to be a completely satisfying answer to for a while. But that doesn't like, discount people who do engage sexually with animals. I don't think it's fair to say sex with animals is entirely wrong, and I'm certainly not disgusted by it. Sorry for this random subject change, but you mentioned you always tell potential partners, have there been people who aren't okay with it?
I've had partners that thought it was gross and didn't want me to talk about it.
Hey, I'm worried I'm being a bit of a duck with an i here. Please let me know if you don't want to talk about it, yeah? I really don't want to get people into situations they're uncomfortable with.
I don't talk about things I wish to not talk about. Anything I say I say because I wish to.
Two sources of information for you, the 2001 semi-documentary Animal Passions (it's available on YouTube) and psychologist Hanni Miletski's book Understanding Bestiality and Zoophilia. There are other legitimate research projects that have been done in the past too, some that I even participated in. I wish you the best in your endeavor but these days I have no particular interest in being 'public'...