Please put all complaints about "the community" in this thread (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2016-09-02 22:45:42 by fuzzyfurry
Every other thread here is mostly filled with complaints about how "the community" sucks. I'm not saying you can't complain. Make your own thread about how the community sucks once a week, that's fine by me. But maybe try not to start the same discussion in so many different threads. When including the replies, their amount is starting to drown out the normal comments.
I believe it does not look inviting when someone new comes here and presents their views and 2 of the 3 top level comments is a lecture on how "the zoophiles" suck.
I don't think this community sucks. I understand that all view points should be respected and viewed as such. I also think that being challenged by others views is a good thing too. I guess my only one (not really a complaint)is how there is not enough chats on why we love what we love. Literally, I wish I knew why I love animals and specifically canines so much. I don't wish to stop it and I don't hate myself for loving it like I do. I'm just very curious, why do I find them attractive. I like conversations like that. Why do others find them or other species attractive. I do see lots of awesome eye opening stories and have read many opinions on why, but I only want more of it. This place isn't specifically geared towards research/studies/(questioning ourselves of what we love) but that just fascinates me a lot. So that's what I wish to share here. Im sorry about my comment. I'm really fine with what many talk about here too. I find the more I read, the more whole and self-developed I become. Not just here but on youtube too of all places. Thanks for the suggestion to voice our opinions here Fuzzyfurry. Hope to see more enlightening comments soon. Edit (Also maybe I didn't quite understand the context of your comment, so I'm sorry again if the one I made here is just rubbish?)
It's a passive aggressive complaint about basically two people and you are not one of them.
But at the same time it is a thread for complaining about the community, so whatever you want to say, it's fine. :)
OK, my complaint about "the community" is that there is so little of it. We are few in number; we come from such diverse backgrounds and experieces that the tenuous threads of commonality are often easily severed, leaving the community disjointed and splintered.
Part of the problem with "the community" as I see it is that it is several things at once, and sometimes not all of them, for each one of us individually; it's philosophy, science, speculation, news, personal stories, and more.
We want to discuss these topics openly; however, since each of us have differing interests (horses, dogs, cetaceans, chupacabras, why, and more) there will be some chaff for individuals that the group as a whole will find useful. Some of us will be assholes to the others and sometimes the asshole may be ourselves if we don't try to show a modicum of respect to those we are communicating with. That said, this is the internet, assholes abound.
Who belongs here? Only persons who have platonic love? Those with pysical attraction and desire? Does it include only domesticated animals? Wild animals? Mythological? Where exactly the line gets drawn is a little different among individuals, so I try to be tollerant of topics I am uninterested in.
That we differ is less important than the reasons why we differ, to me. Perhaps in that why, I may find new ideas which will change my mind or lead me to new discoveries.
Oh yeah, please put all criticism in here so all the little jerks don´t ever have to face reality and can easily avoid any uncomfortable topics, right?
It´s exactly this "safe space" mentality that grinds my gears so much. I heavily doubt that criticism of the "zoo community" will drown out the "high quality" replies...without controversy, not many threads would exceed the one-digit numbers of replies. I simply don´t see the point in generic replies parroting what you can read elsewhere, too....blah,blah,blah, unjust society, blah,blah,blah, zooos are all harmless folks, blah,blah,blah, you should give it a try, blah,blah,blah etc.
Maybe we should discuss the nature of "zoo forums" in general. Hug box? Echo chamber? We all know that most of us come here (and to any other zoo forum) primarily to "take the blue pill". Escapism, delving into fantasy island, fleeing from realities out there. But is this what we really need? Or is it just a distraction from the important things we really need to discuss to progress?
I´ve seen this black-and-white mentality too often, I´ve witnessed the negative repercussions of allowing fantasizers and jerk-offs to participate in our community as if they were real zoos. And where has it taken us? Soon, physical intimacy with quadrupeds will be outlawed worldwide. How long does it take you to realize something is going terribly wrong in our community? Something unhealthy, something evil has spread in the name of misinterpreted and misunderstood tolerance.
Who belongs in here? Legit question. I´ve tried to discuss this many times before, but whenever I propose to exclude a certain group, the SWJs immediately start weeping and shouting how intolerant I am. But until we all have learned that "scene hygiene" is a necessity and without keeping our own turf tidy and clean, we all can abandon any hope for future tolerance of our orientation. That´s a fact. It doesn´t matter how much this is against your SWJ, all-inclusive principles; and you don´t even have to take my words for granted, all you have to do is doing some research on how the public image and attitude towards zoophilia in general has changed in the last, "all-inclusive" 15 years.
Another truth: there is NO zoo community! Not even our sexuality is connecting us in any way and the worst enemies of zoophilia being tolerated by society are standing on OUR side of the trenches, stabbing our backs whenever they can.
Contrary to others who misinterpret this forum as something primarily for the newbies to get support (or being programmed by exposing themselves to the echo chamber, as I see it), I´d prefer to discuss all the black spots and the wrongs of contemporary "zoophilia". For me, the antis have voiced some legitimate criticism and burying our heads in the sands won´t make all this uncomfy criticism go away. The hug box mentality is toxic, folks.
But I won´t waste my time anymore, the usual downvoters will surely be quick to arrive here. It is really horrifying how similar this oh so tolerant community reacts whenever a dissident surfaces and voices his/her opinion.
Anyway, I believe all this "community" and forum bullshit to be totally uneffective for reaching goals. It mostly exists for mutual reassurement rather than dealing with the political side of zoophilia...but we need thinkers, not wankers to make change happen. I surely will get replies like "But think of all those insecure newbies" pretty soon...but you know what? Fuck ´em. Being a zoo from the pre-internet era, I can assure you that without the net, coming to terms with yourself was certainly hard work, I´ll admit that. But as I see it, being thrown back at yourself, being left alone with your strange orientation to think about , being forced to sort it all out on your own has created another type of zoophiles. There weren´t these "whiny bitches, special snowflake" zoos back then; we didn´t need to mutually reassure ourselves of our "totally harmless, totally legit" need to fuck animals. The lack of social platform hug boxes and echo chambers forced us to use our own heads instead of talking each other into this, you know.
One last thing: as you can see, users like ursusm and me are downvoted regularly. Not for our views, as even uncontroversial posts are downvoted, but out of simple antipathy. As I have said before, I give a rat´s ass about up- and downvotes because this shit is only important for folks who need this surrogate importance of their views. "My opinion counts!"...yeah, right, go fuck yourselves in your parallel dimension. But as the voting system is NOT meant to be used to express sym- and antipathy of specific individuals, I really wonder: If you abuse the voting system without batting an eye, how can we trust you not abusing your animals? When you interpret every rule in a way that suits your ego, do you do it similarly with the zeta rules?
+1 Totally right on this one, the first few paragraphs I read anyway.
your asshole mentality is toxic.
the rest of your post is again a strawman that doesn't represent /r/zoo so I'm not even going to address it.
That is not what brings me here, those are topics I tend to gloss over.
What actions by the community have driven this? Exactly who are you suggesting needs to be driven out and how am I to know that you aren't one of them? The recent legislation hasn't been driven by the community, it has been driven by concerted effort to present cases, often times manufactured, which show horrific abuses and pass them off as the standard. Many of these examples are ones in which zoophiles themselves reject as unacceptable actions.
Have you considered that perhaps you are intollerant? What criteria are you using to decide? What if I find that you don't qualify as a zoophile in my definition, will you leave? How exactly would you intend to police the group for people who don't belong and how would you exclude those who do not? I somewhat agree with you on some of these points, but what you are demanding is nearly impossible on an open forum....it's, you know, open. People can participate and it's pretty hard to keep the dicks out. Best you can do is call out the bullshit when you see it.
You keep saying this but I don't see any new topics on the matter. I'm not being a jerk here, I'm serious as I think examining these is important too. It seems to me you're more concerned with complaining than actually discussing the things you think need to be discussed.
Ah, it this more of your "I'm leaving"? I see that didn't last but a few hours. From what I have seen, being a dissident isn't what draws the ire, it is the the way you seem compelled to insult, degrade, and put up strawmen everywhere that earns you the comptempt. Have you considered offering logical criticism without hurling invectives and insults?
I would like to see your evidence for this. I have personally downvoted both of you at least once, but only because you were being obstinate assholes more concerned about hurling insults than engaging in discussion. Sadly, so many of your posts fall into this category than the thoughtful, intelligent ones do.
Here's a challenge for you, go over your posts for the past year and contrast all the ones where your replies are insulting with the ones where you are not. I bet you'd see a pattern, I certainly do. Have some people grown tired of your insults and just wish you gone? Probably, I find it hard to fault anyone who does, but I don't agree that people should be silenced for having different perspectives. I do; however, accept that people who cannot discuss things rationally are sometimes banned for adding nothing but noise and hate.
As another from the pre-internet days I also remember what it was like. Sure I figured things out, but the input from other zoos changed my ideas more than I ever figured out on my own. Maybe you are just super smart, but some of the rest of us have benefitted from the input and advice of others.
Edit: typo
People downvote us just because we are us. That's it. We've said some things that have offended some people for one reason or another and they can't deal with simple criticism so they just want to "get us" every time we pipe up- regardless of what we say whether it is in line with what everyone else thinks or not. Maybe it isn't YOU who is doing this, but there definitely are some folks here- zoophiles or people who have a fetish for animals, perhaps rather- who are doing this. The cowards who do are not going to come forward and say who they are, you can count on that. But like 30-30 said, I don't care about votes like I just want some sort of validation or acceptance from you all. The voting thing here pisses me off because it isn't being used like how we are supposed to use it. It makes me think that what I'm dealing with here in the zoo community amounts to a bunch of crying little babies and children who can't man up and discuss like proper grown-ups. I want to know everything about zoophilia/zoosexuality and everything about animals- of course that would include learning some things that I may not want to hear. That may include discovering realities that maybe don't jive with my fantasies. I still want to know regardless. I get the feeling that I'm the only zoophilic person who is like this. What's up with that?
I have not downvote you recently, but if I had, it would be because you make sweeping generalizations like
That's not to say I want you gone. I just want people to be able to feel a little more welcome. After all, if you search this subreddit, the description says
I don't feel like pulling the data from your posts as I did with 30-30's, but if you just look you will see that you have a significant number of posts with positive scores! Gasp!!!! How do you explain that while maintaining the claim that you are being systematically harassed? If that were the case, each and every single post you make would have a negative score. You would have been downvoted into oblivion.
He's an alternative interpretation, when you are rude and insulting, people downvote you; I know I do sometimes. Perhaps if you were less rude and insulting you would get fewer downvotes.
I believe that I only get voted up whenever I say something that is just simply in line with the common mainstream zoophilia propaganda views. When I present anything out of the ordinary or controversial... That is another story. It isn't like my intention is to hurt people's feelings. But you shouldn't be too afraid to have your feelings hurt. We need tough skin.
So take your own advice, grow tough skin and stop complaining about how you think you are being treated.
So then why do you so frequently insult and deride the people in the discussion? Especially those who you disagree with? Whenever someone is in opposition to you, instead of explaining your position or asking questions about what they object to, you demonize your opponent and insult them. How can you justify this statement with your post history?
You appear to be arguing that others should just accept your abuse, but that you should be treated with more respect. I am sorry to inform you but that is hypocritical thinking.
If you want to be treated more kindly, you should start by doing so yourself in your dealings with others.
But all this that you are saying means that we can't express ourselves as exactly how we feel. I don't disrespect anyone here. My biggest problem with the people here is that I become very frustrated because people don't understand me. I want everyone to get it like I do. I pretty much don't have hardly any patience with this. It is too bad we can't speak strongly about our views here because we have to worry that our words may upset someone. I basically just need a different zoo community with different goals. The community here on reddit is only helpful for the "insecure newbie" types. I was never an insecure newbie.
I think you will find that your definition of disrespect and nearly everyone else's are wildly different. Insults, invectives, and other disagreeable behavior directed at others is commonly accepted as disrespect. You do indeed display this behavior frequently. Would it help for me to go through your history and provide some examples?
I suspect that a great many people do understand you, they simply disagree with you. Sometimes this disagreement is at a core level where, without some compelling reasoning they are as unlikely to change their views as you are.
So you fault the community for your belief that it is an echo chamber, yet expect that everyone should adopt your views? Are you simply incapable of accepting that others may differ with you?
This is apparent and I believe a shortcoming of yours and not of the community.
This is absolutely not the case. I have disagreed with you without insulting you, without trying to demonize you, but by explaining my perspective and reasoning. I have even been quite strong in my opposition, such as in the case of my total disagreement with 30-30 in regard to a registry. I simply do not see any value in being rude or insulting, it does not forward your point, it provides no reason or logic, it only serves to drive a wedge between you and the people you are are communicating with.
If by "different goals" you mean willing to accept your abuse and blindly follow your opinons, then I would agree that this is probably not the place for you.
You have your opinion and are entittled to it; I disagree. It is not a perfect place, none I have found are.
What exactly are you guys disagreeing with me about? I think you just don't understand me, really. I don't think I'm actually being disagreed with.
I am unwilling to accept that you lack the cognitive ability to understand the many conversations you have had in which others have voiced disagreement with you. I am at a total loss in how to reach you if this is truly the case.
I think at this point it is best for me to just accept that I am unable to reach you on a level which you can understand, perhaps it is a failing on my part, but it is painfully obvious that continuing this is pointless.
I wish you the very best in finding your path in life.
Oh humans.
keep in mind you're human, too.
Yeah but I'm a different kind of human.
Yes, I'm replying to myself here....
Here's the results of 30-30's last 187 posts (3 months)..the claim that he's being systematically downvoted appears to not hold up to the evidence. Who is surprised by this?
Posts: 187
High: 12 ponts
Low: -8 points
points = times scored
12 = 1
10 = 2
9 = 3
6 = 2
5 = 3
4 = 3
3 = 6
2 = 16
1 = 38
0 = 82
-1 = 19
-2 = 3
-3 = 2
-4 = 3
-6 = 1
-7 = 2
-8 = 1
edit: apologies for jumping around and not replying in a linear way. adding a reply to a second section since i can't make a second reply to the same post in reddit.
ah, of course. the "REAL zoo". like you.
for all your complaining about "special snowflake" people, it's clear you see yourself as a special snowflake.
really? we need to purify the zoophile race? is that it?
So you did understand my point after all. I'd rather have one-digit numbers of replies that are actually on topic than to see the same endless discussion in every other thread.
Not right. I said Make your own thread about how the community sucks once a week, that's fine by me.. I'm just talking about "hijacking" other threads.
Social Warrior Justice?
Please call my by the right term: SJW.
By all means, do that. I would actually be interested in that, if you
"I had it hard growing up so others should have it hard too"?
Is it bad that I can't tell if you're joking?
I know it's nitpicky, but I think he's being the exact opposite of an SJW. If he's saying shut up about all the complaints, it's annoying and makes people uncomfortable and I don't want to see them, put them all in this one thread, that's the exact opposite of what an SJW would say. The more SJW-like thing to do would be to call things out wherever you can and cause as much unrest as possible.
This place has saved me from going into very dark places. To put it very blunt, has stopped me from planning on killing myself. I guess I shouldn't be here since I am just a fantasizer. And I don't have a dog of my own, or I do not need one to justify my love and affection for them. But by god, has this place made me feel human and whole again.
As to how you feel about the hug box effect on others;I feel like this place should have both. People who accept others and the skeptics that don't accept someone, just by a name or by a story they make. We need both to make this community better. For those who absolutely do need it in order to get some mindful help. I didn't get help by supporting comments. I got help by just reading. My partner was kind enough to tell me about reddit, so stumbling upon reddit, finding this forum, and seeing the posts, the love, the hate, the social differences and everything in between has really helped me a lot to not feel so depressed and skeptical of my brain and what I truly enjoy. A year ago is when my mind spiraled into depressive thoughts. And I owe it to this forum and my partner from getting out of it. :( Still weak here though and always Still wanting to expand my knowledge of what little I know. So I thank you and everyone else here.. My confession.. I feel truly bad about confessing this.. I don't want people to know.. But maybe it might help you see differently,? Maybe it wont help at all. Just a human who doesn't really think deserves to be here. But still woes for that acceptance to be.
Here is a complaint. Why do we have nothing to say for people like
https://archive.fo/QdX8M
https://archive.fo/qADJq
?
And by that I don't mean a "hugbox safespace", but more providing a reasonable perspective other than the mainstream one, about the harm that was reasonably done or not and that maybe that therapist isn't doing a very good job.
are you saying you think we should personally invite the person in this scenario here? i don't quite understand what you're saying.
(FWIW, i read the post and definitely feel sorry for the person and hope he finds closure.)
I have tried a couple times of wording a good reply to this, but I haven't managed anything I thought good enough, so my apologies ahead of time for this substandard post....
While I sympathize with the poster, I fail to see it's relevance to zoophilia. They state quite clearly that they don't identify as a zoophile and the replies do not appear overly hostile to zoophilia and focus primarily on the poster's feelings of guilt. What utility would there be to injecting a discussion of zoophilia there? I don't imagine it would be welcome nor appropriate as I can only see it derailing the discussion about the poster's issues with the experimentation.
Additionally, I personally do not search all of reddit looking for zoophilia/bestiality references.
I have trouble putting it in words... It feels like most of the people involved in this discussion - while trying to be helpful - are reinforcing the point that "zoophiles on the internet" are a "dark corner" that encourage minors to have sex with animals even against their own will and that sexual activity between humans and nonhumans is certainly bad. It feels like they are creating the reason why OP should feel bad, whether he hurt the dog or not.
I certainly don't want to invite him here or to "recruit" him as a zoo - obviously he's not one. I want that he somehow can live in a world where - assuming the dog wasn't hurt or forced - it's not a big deal because children experiment and if they find out they don't like that thing, it's fine and they shouldn't be traumatized because their experimentation is heavily stigmatized. I mean studies aren't very firm here but experimentation like that is a lot more common than people realize and there's no real reason to feel that ashamed of it, right?
And lastly as I said, relying some experience with therapists could be helpful because it doesn't sound like this one is equipped to really help.
I want a zoo community that has discussions about zoophilia (and not just porn) AND is friendly. This shouldn't be hard. Other niche groups have succeeded in creating rational, adult forums for discussions without constantly putting each other down.
In the mainstream world we are told to kill ourselves, that we monsters. That's why I need connection with other zoophiles and some positivity. I want to read love poems, I want good advice about safety and hygiene, I want hear about the butterflies in your stomach.
I'm tired of people trying to "out-zoo" each other. We find animals hot and lovable, that's it.
I agree with you here, there is no reason for hostility in a discussion.
I do not like the idea of banning, but for those who apparently cannot interact without derailing into attacks it seems a viable option. Perhaps if we had moderators....
Sometimes the easiest way to see the topics we want is to create them. I admit I am less likely to open up and expose poetry, but I can see myself commenting in either of the other two proposed topics.
There's a screaming difference between having criticisms about a community, and personal attacks ("putting each other down" - I assume). There's no better way to castrate a community than having rules that conflate the two. Meanwhile, a "rational, adult forum" is precisely the one that's able to accept and handle criticism of itself.
Absolutely! Criticism that is on-topic and constructive is good. Politely correcting mistakes is good. But off-topic ranting, personal attacks and making new people feel unwelcome makes for a dying community.
get out the elmers glue and sticky this!
My only concern about this community is how judgmental people can be. Mainly with people saying what a zoo is or isn't. It's like saying a man who identifies as strait but is orally Bi isn't part of the LGBT community.