Hello again, r/zoophilia! I mostly lurk around here, since I don't consider myself a proper zoophile-- I am attracted to canines, and fantasize big-time, but I stick with my fantasies to stay safe.
I first explored my desires through reading stories and articles several years ago, and it has been my quest ever since to find decently written erotica and/or memoirs about the fact. There's one story posted on r/animalromance that remains my ideal for what a zoo story should be like, though I won't post the link here since that's not what this subreddit is about. What I want to discuss is the effect of literature on how people perceive animal attraction. 99% of what I've read is lazily written, disgusting, and gives people the idea that bestiality is an illegal kink for sickos instead of a legitimate and beautiful orientation for some, and a legitimate and beautiful kink for others. If I hadn't found the 1% I probably would have let my guilt talk me out of exploring why I felt butterflies in my stomach when the neighbor's Golden Lab walked past me.
Do you think there would be more open-mindedness towards zoophilia if the erotica was written more tastefully? It's available on Smashwords and Barnes and Noble, not just BeastForum, so it is an important cultural tool because people get exposed to it, make judgements, etc.
Also I just want to vent because there's so much crummy writing out there.
[deleted]
In before /u/30-30 rants about how fiction isn't real.
I'm going to have to disagree with you. The reason that I'm doubtful that this is the case is the fact that the only people looking for bestiality erotica in the first place are zoophiles themselves. No, the issue isn't as simple as crap erotica, rather it's a philosophical one. Most people view bestiality as animal abuse, a belief that stems from the fact that people think of intelligence as a purely binary situation, i.e. humans are intelligent, and animals are not. In believing that animals are not intelligent, the inevitable conclusion is that bestiality is exploitation and abuse. When in reality the situation is vastly more complicated, with some animals showing intelligence just shy of that of humans (just look at dolphins, which are capable of basic arithmetic), and developing on this, some animals are capable of showing enthusiastic consent and are capable of deeper emotional bonds. So ultimately the issue comes down to people over simplifying the issue, an issue that is inherent in the human race. Humans are pretty lazy and won't think about things unless it DIRECTLY involves them, and sometimes not even then. So unless there is massive amounts of publicity around zoophilia, extended long-term publicity spanning decades like the LGBT movement, zoophilia will always remain a taboo subject. There simply is not enough zoophiliacs in the world, and certainly not enough sympathizers to ever have the chance of swaying public opinion.
For many people, this is true. I am curious, however, because it was precisely well-written stories and nonfiction blogposts that helped me conquer my guilt. I have shown these texts to other people who aren't zoos who didn't reject them immediately-- partially because I think they were surprised.
It's not just fringe stuff, either. Examine how this Vice News blogger describes her online exploration of zoophiles. Most people will still react strongly, but I still strongly feel that a sensitive, realistic depiction like this is still important.
I agree with both of you on this... I don't think it would sway public opinion, exactly, but it could sway the opinions of people who come looking to confirm their biases, one way or another, and could impact the tone of the internal "echo chamber."
That said, trying to codify, let alone enforce moral rules will be perceived by some (arguably a statistical majority of the sex-with-animals crowd) as an effort to draw new boundary llines in the culture war. Not to deny there might be benefit or even objective wisdom in doing so.
All it takes is a few intelligent people at a time. Every little bit helps.
thank you for this link. reading it now. very interesting.
edit: addendum below -
... though it ended strangely, and ultimately left me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah, but at least she gives zoophilia a fair hearing, or the closest thing to a fair hearing that I've seen in the mainstream (loosely defined, of course, VICE News not being typical mass media).
Not long ago, the subject of zoophilia related erotica showed up in a conversation with some normal friends of mine. They all admitted to read zoo erotica from time to time due to curiosity and to the "fun" factor of the content. However, make no mistake, they are as anti-zoo as every next guy.
I don't think this plays a huge role for our image.
Even if people have easy access to these stories it doesn't mean that they will read it. (Or understand it, but that's a thing that'll never happen anyways.)
In most cases, people avoid this sort of thing anyways.
If it's anything that really affects our image, then it's probably the animal rapists, horny bestialists, fence hoppers, laws, religion and basically the rest of the humans refusing to understand us for no good reason.
But now that you mention it, I've never really read any of these kind of stories.
I wonder if they'll... get me going.
Most of them won't. I know a few that might, but out of respect to the subreddit and its intentions, I won't link them in this thread.
I've mentioned before (not that I expect anyone to remember) that I do a bit of writing sometimes, and at least some of it could reasonably be considered "zoo erotica".
I can tell you easily what my tastes are, and what standard I have for my stories: a "mutual" aspect. Whether it be down and dirty sex, or a bit more on the romantic or emotional side, the element that distinguishes a story I'll like from one I won't is whether or not both participants are seeing the activity in a way that shows that they care for each other, rather than just "getting their rocks off".
Now, I don't know if that's what you mean by "crummy writing" or not (and honestly, I'm proud of my stories so it would not bother me if you consider them crummy). But I am curious what you mean by the term. What you mean by "tastefully"? I can think of a lot of different possible meanings, but I really would like you to elaborate on just what you mean.
I guess I have a few criteria for crummy zoo erotica. I don't mind stories about down and dirty sex-- that's what fantasies are about, after all-- but the scarcity of a good romance story makes it crave it more, and also I've seen so many poorly written "down and dirty" stories that it taints my perspective.
1) Poor grammar.
2) A premise that is based on a fairly cliche fantasy, i.e. "my wife fucked the dog and it made me really horny then we had a threesome durrhurrhurr" or "oh my i'm a horny single girl with big boobs who just bought a guard dog whatever shall i do" without adding anything original to it.
3) Using an animal in the story because it's "taboo" and "disgusting", instead of beautiful. You can usually tell based on how the dog is described.
4) Inaccurate description of other species' anatomy and/or behavior. No, Fido the domesticated Golden Retriever is not going to tear your panties off and rape you. I've seen some exceptions where the behavior is specifically noticed as unusual, in Cujo kind of way, but for the most part I prefer realism, especially when it comes to anatomy.
I'm willing to admit that my perspective is biased based on my taste, but after seeing the 30th "my dom tied me up and let rex screw my ass" rehash I just get exhausted. And I'm sure anyone who stumbles across it must be horrified, instead of (possibly) curious.
I dunno, man, I just want to see some more articles/stories about zoo sex, whether they're meant to be erotic or not, that might make an open-minded person think, "That's an interesting and tastefully written perspective," instead of, "Ewww!"
Interesting. We agree on most things - pretty clearly, actually - except for the "realism" part. Though that requires... perhaps some explanation.
While I've written stories involving actual animals before, I have a tendency to write about fantasy creatures. I've got a number of reasons for this, so I'm not going to go into them unless asked. But to me, that's perfectly compatible with the "zoo" moniker. The core components of what makes something a zoo story, in my mind, are that there's a creature with a nonhuman body structure, and a non-anthropomorphized mind. As long as that's true, it doesn't matter a whole lot to me if the animal in question actually exists.
At the very minimum, I can say I don't write the stories you're complaining about (and wouldn't enjoy them either). But at the same time what I usually write probably wouldn't qualify as "zoo" to you, though it does for me.
I do put fantasy creatures in a different subcategory than straight-up zoophilia, though I do have them mentally placed under the same general category of non-human attraction... so I guess we basically agree.
And honestly, at this point, just having decent grammar will endear you to me. <3
Trust I, speak Good and Formed Sentences correct is some thing that me can does
Oh yes, that part of how the animal is really described in a taboo manner, almost like monster, irks me. I don't want to hear about a drooling, slobbering beast who doesn't take no for an answer. I want to read about someone being lucky enough to find a beautiful and amicable dog who happens to like humans.
This same concept, of the story focusing on a beautiful woman with an ugly dog, can be found in drawn erotica as well. So tired of it. And non-zoos who find bestiality fascinating because they like the "degration" of it, can't seem to understand why I don't like the same porn as they do. They can't see that I want porn with pretty dogs, rather than with pretty humans.
Exactly. I want pretty dogs AND pretty people who AREN'T being degraded all the time. It's not hard, just imagine a mid-2000's romcom with Matthew McConoughey, except that instead of Matthew McConoughey, there's a German Shepherd.
Honestly, if I write a story that has a human in it, I have trouble sometimes even including a description of said human. It's probably a flaw, but I just honestly couldn't even care.
Pretty animals are where it's at.
Respect.
I think that 95% of anything made is going to suck, no matter how deep you drill into specific genres and tropes. Zoophilia is no exception: there's a lot of nonsense (especially on mainstream story sites like literotica), but there are occasional good authors out there. My advice is to ask others about their favorites and where to find them.
I'll just recommend an off-the-wall one that I enjoy: Maker v4.0, by Bland2 on SoFurry. It's sci-fi as well, and it amounts to the story of how a godly Great Dane man came to exist through an accident with nanomachines, the mutual feelings of a man and his dog toward each other, and some love and tenderness. Starts dry, because it explains what the nanomachines can do in detail first, but then it delves into the story from three different perspectives: the dog's, the man's, and the perspective of the nanomachines (which gain sentience when combined). Check it out, if you like.
Good point. I'm just so fed up right now. I want more good content out there so there's more of a chance to give a good impression to people who might happen to chance upon this corner of the Internet.
Thanks for the recommendation. I have found some gems over the years. SusanMichelle and mattlobo on BeastForum are fantastic, and u/ThrowwwayGurl's account on r/animalromance remains my all-time favorite writing about zoophilia, fiction or non-fiction.
hm. did a search on sofurry and didn't find it. could i get a link to maker v4.0? it definitely sounds intriguing.
Here you go. Enjoy.
thank you very much. :)
have you read the stories written by silverwolf? Theyre a great mix of raunchy and romantic.
Yesssssssssss. More of that, PLEASE.
Tell me, how does one find these stories?
I feel like an idiot for not being able to find any.
Google tippy and silverwolf. The story archives are like the first or second link
Alright, thanks.
Seems like it's popular, too. (Atleast in our community.)
Most of my stuff is here: https://woofle.net/silverwolf/. New stuff is posted here in this and the animalromance reddits. Hope you enjoy them.
Ah, thanks.
That helps!
Afraid I've not written much of late. I've a few stories in the works, but the muse hasn't been co-operative to finishing them. When I do, they'll be available on my forum or on this reddit or r/animal romance ...
No worries, earthling!
Are you good at writing? I though a plot for a scifi story about a zoophile, no sex involved. But I don't have the skills to write such stuff, I would be nice if some one else thinks the plot is good and writes that story on their own.
Though, you seem to be busy with other stories and with no muse :/
I am the "silverwolf' referred to in the above reply. I think I am adequate at writing, yes. I've actually written a zoo sci-fi, "offworld", a serial, though I've yet to continue it. I'd be happy to listen to your plot idea, though I cannot promise I'll be able to write it out. Maybe another writer will read it and try their hand at it. You're welcome to post the idea on my ZWG forum, that is the forums main purpose. http://www.zoowg.net/
Rather than using another site, can't I PM you the idea over reddit Pms?
Are you good at writing? I though a plot for a scifi story about a zoophile, no sex involved. But I don't have the skills to write such stuff, I would be nice if some one else thinks the plot is good and writes that story on their own.
Though, you seem to be busy with other stories and with no muse :/
I had a story I was working with for a bit that was kinda in that vein. Posted the first chapter to reddit as an experiment earlier this year I believe...
I've not worked on it in a bit now, but there are more chapters than I previewed, I'd post them if there was interest. But I kind of get the feeling Reddit isn't the best medium for that...
I'm interested! What's it about?!
It's not really a sex oriented story. It's a scifi designed to introduce the concept of feral zoophilia in a way as to not disgust the end reader (hence, porn would go against that goal).
I'd rather not say more, but if there's interest I'll post another chapter with a link to the first one.
There's interest from me, for sure! I'm sure r/animalromance would love some content!
i don't remember seeing the first chapter (but my memory sucks, so...). i'd be interested.
Are you good at writing? I though a plot for a scifi story about a zoophile, no sex involved. But I don't have the skills to write such stuff, I would be nice if some one else thinks the plot is good and writes that story on their own.
just want to add my agreement that the little erotica i've read has been pretty abysmal, though i don't generally go out of my way to read any.
The good ones are far and few in between. :(
I don't see why people would be more open mined to it if they read about love and not just about raw sex.
By the way: I though of a plot for a zoosexual love story while taking a bath yesterday. But I don't have the skills to write such story, anyone knows some one who is good at writing such stories so I can give him/her the plot so he/she can write it?
The plot has zero sex in it. It would be a tasteful story.