submitted 2017-01-10 13:57:48 by OmochanoshiAt her Majesty Mare service
OmochanoshiAt her Majesty Mare service 2 points on 2017-01-10 14:02:29
Everyone here know it's something very common in animal behaviour (and Youtube have plenty exemples of it), but it's very funny to see that scientists "discover" this kind of acts.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 4 points on 2017-01-10 14:11:36
discover
They're ^^^really ^^really ^reallyreally really late on that.
30-30amator equae 2 points on 2017-01-10 16:21:44
Yes, SOME scientists discover interspecies sex in nature right now, but for the majority of biologists, this isn´t new at all.
It´d be nice if you provide a translation, my French is a bit rusted...well, actually, I chose Latin, Greek, English and Russian in school due to my natural aversion towards the French language and thus, I only understand the very basics of this article. ;)
CantThinkOfAName2017Prefers humans, but likes female dogs and mares 1 point on 2017-01-10 21:56:21
Why do you hate the French language?
btwIAMAzoophileDogs are cute. 1 point on 2017-01-10 14:14:14
Quite interesting imagery, and cute deer haha.
Skgrsgpf 1 point on 2017-02-04 22:11:47
There is another article about this story that I found:
"Whatever the reason for this particular event, the observation of highly unusual animal behaviour could be a key element in understanding the evolution of interspecific mating behaviour in the animal kingdom, and specifically in understanding zoophilia in humans (Beetz 2004; Beirne 2009)."
This is a very nice find. I think that the authors overthink it slightly: if only one male out of all the macaques in that forest tried to mate with deer, I'm not sure how relevant it is to evolutionary biology. After all, a certain degree of flexibility can be found in all animal behaviour. I can't seem to find the English word for it, but there is a word in ethology for when animals are so highly motivated that they perform a behaviour even without the proper 'target' for it. Mate deprivation during mating time seems to me to be a pretty good guess though, for what could make a macaque motivated to try to mate with deer.
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2017-01-10 23:27:39
I know what word you mean, but fail to find a good translation for the German "Übersprungshandlung".
Example: If a smoker quits smoking, he/she often chooses biting nails or chewing gum instead.
Despite that, I recommend reading the books of Konrad Lorenz, the guy with the goose. Lorenz took a goose egg with him to hatch it in his lab. The little gosling hatched. Without contact to his own species, the little white bird sought for its mother ...or any other form of company. Lorenz, a behaviourist, offered the gosling various objects to bond to as a substitute for a mother...the gosling chose a white ping pong ball as its substitute mother and when entering adulthood, it even started to mate with the ping pong ball. Lorenz called this process "imprinting", a spontaneous form of acquiring a reality tunnel . Note that the basic bodily qualities of a goose (white, rund-ish shape) also can be found in the chosen substitute object, the ping ping ball.
For further info, please consult Lorenz´s books yourself, I´m too tired to give a detailed overview right now. Was shoveling snow all day today...
Having Lorenz´s imprinting theory in mind, the above case of the macaque could be led back to false imprinting after birth. It also could be the macaque was expelled from his community and needed a substitute companion as loneliness is detrimental for most mammals. Only a few predators are loners, the rest, even some predators depend on social contact and the safety a bigger number of individuals provides. BTW: domestication of the dog may be a good example for my thesis. It is said that the first wild dogwolves/wolfdogs/whatever were loners befriending with humans.
The archetypical "lone old man meets lone wolf and befriends it" story may be a relic left over in the collective hivemind of humans, variations of it can be found in virtually any culture worldwide.
[deleted] 1 point on 2017-01-10 23:38:09
[deleted]
the_egoldstein 1 point on 2017-01-11 01:22:26
From my reading, Lorenz's work only covers birds, and the imprinting described doesn't apply to all species of birds. Mammals do not appear to be affected by the same mechanisms, or at least not to the same degree. Still, Lorenz is good reading!
To add something other than a nit-pick, here are two (related) papers regarding mammals which cover sheep and goats which are forstered and develop cross species preferences.
Mothers determine sexual preference - Kendrick 1998
Edit: There was a paper I had read about puppy weaning time which correlated early weaning with higher rates of selecting handlers as mates (and reduced canine social skill), but I have been unable to find it again. I think it may have been Fox, but I'm not even certain on that. If anyone knows the reference, I would greatly appreciate a comment.
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2017-01-11 14:18:23
Very interesting links! Thanks alot, new food for thought always is appreciated. Although mammal mate choice might not be completely dependent on imprinting mechanisms, they undoubtedly have an influence.
SusitarCanidae 1 point on 2017-01-11 11:23:59
Yes, it was übersprungshandling might the German word for tomgångshandling or perhaps for överslagshandling. You know what I mean, at least.
I know very well about imprinting and such, you do remember I have a biology degree? But my ethology course was in Swedish, so I don't have the terminology in English, sadly.
I am glad that the researchers wrote this neat little report, since people tend to not believe stories about animals mating over species boundaries. Here it is documented, not just a clip on youtube, but by scientists. Still, I think they jump to conclusions a bit too quickly. I mean, the mention about semen containing protein seemed like grasping at straws... I very much doubt that the sika deer population gets any significant portion of protein from monkey semen!
CantThinkOfAName2017Prefers humans, but likes female dogs and mares 0 points on 2017-01-10 21:55:00
If that's the case, I guess it wouldn't be hard to find a deer to fuck? Or is that oversimplifying it? I'm not implying I'm attracted to deer, as I still am not sure which animals I'm really attracted to.
[deleted] 2 points on 2017-01-11 00:03:06
Nah, they are jumpy and don't generally like "new things." I was just trying to be clever/funny based on the headlines I've seen of late.
CantThinkOfAName2017Prefers humans, but likes female dogs and mares 1 point on 2017-01-11 00:20:52
Oh
KynophileDog lover 3 points on 2017-01-11 02:26:43
Yea right. Everything is a just evil liberal government propaganda and nothing ever happens.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 2 points on 2017-01-11 13:54:57
''Fake news''
What? Yeah, this is all an act, right?
Comparison to pedophiles.
Just like always, we're compared to the disgusting people who we have nothing incommon with.
''Oh no they're pushing bestiality too now?''
Yes fuckhead, but it's not like anything'll change.
Mockery about how zoophilia is not real love. What? Yeah, this is all an act, right?
sigh
I'm trying very hard to not lose my IQ.
I feel like my brain is getting eaten by these kind of humans these days.
It's still funny how they're trying to hide this as if it wasn't real. Lmao.
30-30amator equae 1 point on 2017-01-13 03:30:32
I found some additional articles plus footage on this, the monkey seems to be a dryhumper. No insertion, just rubbing/frottage. The monkey also was seen trying out his luck with another doe only a little later, but was rejected from her.
Not exactly the unchallengable and final proof of interspecies love some bloat it up into, eh? These monkeys are known to relieve distress and fear with sex...
Nothing sensational about this, so keep your calm, everybody. I know how deeply we zoos want to believe in our own myths of "unlimited love", but this has turned out as absolutely and plausibly explainable by common monkey behaviour. Apathy isn´t consent or love, and that´s what I saw in the doe.
What puzzles me the most is the worldwide stir this case has caused. Almost every newspaper in every friggin´ country of this earth seems to cover this "sensational story". One question remains: is it possible mankind is "civilised"/detached from nature to such a high degree that normal animal behaviour is "sensational" now?
/r/zoophilia archive
Everyone here know it's something very common in animal behaviour (and Youtube have plenty exemples of it), but it's very funny to see that scientists "discover" this kind of acts.
They're ^^^really ^^really ^really really really late on that.
Yes, SOME scientists discover interspecies sex in nature right now, but for the majority of biologists, this isn´t new at all.
It´d be nice if you provide a translation, my French is a bit rusted...well, actually, I chose Latin, Greek, English and Russian in school due to my natural aversion towards the French language and thus, I only understand the very basics of this article. ;)
Why do you hate the French language?
Quite interesting imagery, and cute deer haha.
There is another article about this story that I found:
http://mashable.com/2017/01/10/snow-monkey-deer/
If someone has problem to read the article, I can translate it from French.
The original article is in English, and isn't difficult to read: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10329-016-0593-4
From the discussion:
"Whatever the reason for this particular event, the observation of highly unusual animal behaviour could be a key element in understanding the evolution of interspecific mating behaviour in the animal kingdom, and specifically in understanding zoophilia in humans (Beetz 2004; Beirne 2009)."
This is a very nice find. I think that the authors overthink it slightly: if only one male out of all the macaques in that forest tried to mate with deer, I'm not sure how relevant it is to evolutionary biology. After all, a certain degree of flexibility can be found in all animal behaviour. I can't seem to find the English word for it, but there is a word in ethology for when animals are so highly motivated that they perform a behaviour even without the proper 'target' for it. Mate deprivation during mating time seems to me to be a pretty good guess though, for what could make a macaque motivated to try to mate with deer.
I know what word you mean, but fail to find a good translation for the German "Übersprungshandlung". Example: If a smoker quits smoking, he/she often chooses biting nails or chewing gum instead.
Despite that, I recommend reading the books of Konrad Lorenz, the guy with the goose. Lorenz took a goose egg with him to hatch it in his lab. The little gosling hatched. Without contact to his own species, the little white bird sought for its mother ...or any other form of company. Lorenz, a behaviourist, offered the gosling various objects to bond to as a substitute for a mother...the gosling chose a white ping pong ball as its substitute mother and when entering adulthood, it even started to mate with the ping pong ball. Lorenz called this process "imprinting", a spontaneous form of acquiring a reality tunnel . Note that the basic bodily qualities of a goose (white, rund-ish shape) also can be found in the chosen substitute object, the ping ping ball.
For further info, please consult Lorenz´s books yourself, I´m too tired to give a detailed overview right now. Was shoveling snow all day today...
Having Lorenz´s imprinting theory in mind, the above case of the macaque could be led back to false imprinting after birth. It also could be the macaque was expelled from his community and needed a substitute companion as loneliness is detrimental for most mammals. Only a few predators are loners, the rest, even some predators depend on social contact and the safety a bigger number of individuals provides. BTW: domestication of the dog may be a good example for my thesis. It is said that the first wild dogwolves/wolfdogs/whatever were loners befriending with humans. The archetypical "lone old man meets lone wolf and befriends it" story may be a relic left over in the collective hivemind of humans, variations of it can be found in virtually any culture worldwide.
[deleted]
From my reading, Lorenz's work only covers birds, and the imprinting described doesn't apply to all species of birds. Mammals do not appear to be affected by the same mechanisms, or at least not to the same degree. Still, Lorenz is good reading!
To add something other than a nit-pick, here are two (related) papers regarding mammals which cover sheep and goats which are forstered and develop cross species preferences.
Mothers determine sexual preference - Kendrick 1998
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/13534993_Mothers_determine_sexual_preference
Sex Differences in the Influence of Mothers on the Sociosexual Preferences - Kendrick 2001
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/11811387_Sex_Differences_in_the_Influence_of_Mothers_on_the_Sociosexual_Preferences_of_Their_Offspring
Edit: There was a paper I had read about puppy weaning time which correlated early weaning with higher rates of selecting handlers as mates (and reduced canine social skill), but I have been unable to find it again. I think it may have been Fox, but I'm not even certain on that. If anyone knows the reference, I would greatly appreciate a comment.
Very interesting links! Thanks alot, new food for thought always is appreciated. Although mammal mate choice might not be completely dependent on imprinting mechanisms, they undoubtedly have an influence.
Yes, it was übersprungshandling might the German word for tomgångshandling or perhaps for överslagshandling. You know what I mean, at least.
I know very well about imprinting and such, you do remember I have a biology degree? But my ethology course was in Swedish, so I don't have the terminology in English, sadly.
I am glad that the researchers wrote this neat little report, since people tend to not believe stories about animals mating over species boundaries. Here it is documented, not just a clip on youtube, but by scientists. Still, I think they jump to conclusions a bit too quickly. I mean, the mention about semen containing protein seemed like grasping at straws... I very much doubt that the sika deer population gets any significant portion of protein from monkey semen!
Deer are interspecies sluts:
https://www.chinasmack.com/sheep-falls-in-love-with-deer-in-yunnan-zoo
If that's the case, I guess it wouldn't be hard to find a deer to fuck? Or is that oversimplifying it? I'm not implying I'm attracted to deer, as I still am not sure which animals I'm really attracted to.
Nah, they are jumpy and don't generally like "new things." I was just trying to be clever/funny based on the headlines I've seen of late.
Oh
https://youtu.be/FQi4ngrlZX4 Did someone say slutty deer?
Let's see what other subreddits are saying... https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/duplicates/5n6n8k/fake_news_two_animals_from_totally_different/
/r/The_Donald
/r/altright
/r/new_right
Yea right. Everything is a just evil liberal government propaganda and nothing ever happens.
What? Yeah, this is all an act, right?
Just like always, we're compared to the disgusting people who we have nothing incommon with.
Yes fuckhead, but it's not like anything'll change.
What? Yeah, this is all an act, right?
sigh
I'm trying very hard to not lose my IQ.
I feel like my brain is getting eaten by these kind of humans these days.
It's still funny how they're trying to hide this as if it wasn't real. Lmao.
I found some additional articles plus footage on this, the monkey seems to be a dryhumper. No insertion, just rubbing/frottage. The monkey also was seen trying out his luck with another doe only a little later, but was rejected from her.
Not exactly the unchallengable and final proof of interspecies love some bloat it up into, eh? These monkeys are known to relieve distress and fear with sex...
Nothing sensational about this, so keep your calm, everybody. I know how deeply we zoos want to believe in our own myths of "unlimited love", but this has turned out as absolutely and plausibly explainable by common monkey behaviour. Apathy isn´t consent or love, and that´s what I saw in the doe.
What puzzles me the most is the worldwide stir this case has caused. Almost every newspaper in every friggin´ country of this earth seems to cover this "sensational story". One question remains: is it possible mankind is "civilised"/detached from nature to such a high degree that normal animal behaviour is "sensational" now?