How do you deal with them?
The hate on zoophilia bothers me to no end.
In fact, because of all this hate I often don't feel real love anymore.
I know the majority of humanity will never accept us, and that's why I need a way on how to accept such hate, even if that seems 100% impossible.
You can't just tell me to grow thicker skin, I'm extra fragile when it comes to zoo hate.
I've seen people get converted from pro-zoo/neutral-zoo into zoo haters.
I told a group of people just like that, they went apeshit and spread false information on how zoophilia and bestiality isn't love, but just lust and rape.
I couldn't convince them wrong, because apparently: Bigger numbers of people > Actual truth.
Since we're on this topic, what do you think is going on in these people's minds?
How and why do these people think like that?
Some just hate us for the ''eww that's disgusting'' reason or they straight up make dumb excuses (iz suposz 2 B humen and humen, not humon n animol!!11!) not to be even neutral towards it.
I seriously want to fucking know how that is a reason to hate us.
I think it's extremely disgusting that humans fuck and kiss each other, do I hate them for that?
I just ignore them. Their opinion doesn't effect me, so ignoring them is simple...
I honestly don't encounter it all that much. On the rare occasions I do encounter it, I tend to treat it the same way I deal with racists, homophobes, religious intollerance, or any other similar topic; I will usually remark that if nobody's getting hurt, I don't care and that the person speaking seems to have some deep seated problems....perhaps some denial going on there...and leave it at that. You can't fit a big idea into a small mind, it has to be stretched out a bit first with thought to make room for it.There's no shortage of real problems in the world, this one is prettty far down on my concern list, even if it is a personal interest.
I can talk openly about how I love my dogs, I just don't tell people I'm fucking them. My relationships are none of their business and on the flipside, I don't want to hear about who or what they're fucking. I'm 100% OK with them thinking I'm that dog nut, I probably am.
I suspect it's partly from being raised in a culture that doesn't challenge each other's beliefs. That to disagree is to be rude and to question someone's ideas is an insult. I have a close friend who was once a very closed-minded YEC religious nutter. He'd lived in the echo chamber of family and fellow believers and had never encountered anyone who honestly disagreed with the teachings he'd heard parroted, so he never really thought about any of them, just accepted them as true, at least until he met me.
Have you ever heard of Plato's allegory of the cave? It's at the beginning of book 7 of The Republic and it's a brilliant description of the problem. He uses prisioners chained in a cave as a device for explaining ignorance.
As for this bothering you so much, why allow someone else's opinions, especially someone who hasn't likely given those opinions much real thought, to have such an effect?
My emotions aren't under my control.
I can take some insults, but these people are pretty serious.
I mean, we get witchhunted as soon as we are exposed.
Suddenly, we're the worst people to ever exist.
Also, it's not just ''someone else's opinions'', it's the opinion of a lot of people.
The majority of humanity.
There is a reason bestiality is illegal in most countries and that there's more and more action taken against us every day.
I don't like being called something that I'm not, like a rapist or an oversexual horny degenerate, or anything along the lines of that.
Why should my friend be able to tell me that he likes all these sexy women, but I can't tell him that I like ''these sexy dogs''?
Sure, I don't have to tell him that. But he doesn't have to tell me either.
By most people's logic, he's right and I'm just a creepy guy?
Do you see where that's going?
I don't want to be excluded like that.
You know, after a while all these words start to be believable.
It's the reason I doubt myself about this.
Most people actually thought about it.
I've seen them discuss it.
And by the way, then why do I not get a fucking chance to explain what zoophilia actually is?
Their opinions do not change.
I would recommend working on that.
So then don't expose yourself? I mean, it's a very minor risk really. Sure it would be nice if there weren't any legal or social stigmas, but there are and for the most part they are very avoidable by not providing evidence.
So? About half of the world's population thinks you're evil due to their religious beliefs. Do you fret about suffering in their afterlife too?
I never said or implied that the status quo is right, only that it exists. Thankfully, our problem is pretty minor. If we don't expose ourselves they have almost no way of knowing. If it matters so much to you to be open, take a drive to a large city and tell random strangers. I suspect it will feel pretty silly and not satisfy you, why do you suppose that is (or isn't)?
I supect you are projecting thought where little to none exists. I've seen people discuss obviously, demonstratably, ridiculous ideas and not realize it was absurd. That's how the echo chamber works, it's not thought, it's parroting. (edit) I think you are mistaking speech for thought, these two are sometimes related, but often not.
Neither does yours change to match theirs. Now you're a hypocrite (joke)! Perhaps you can ask them why they believe as they do, give them a chance to make you understand? Perhaps give you a chance to expose some poor reasoning?
Be your own person, think about and understand what you are doing and why. In the words of Marcus Aurelius, "Suppose any man shall despise me. Let him look to that himself. But I will look to this, that I be not discovered doing or saying anything deserving of contempt."
If your happiness hinges on the world accepting things as you see them, as you want them, or as you believe they should be, prepare yourself for a life of abject misery. Better yet, I suggest you stop worrying so much about what someone else thinks and spend more time thinking about your real problems and how to live a good and pleasant life.
I didn't know anyone could control their emotions.
Sure, but what if somebody asks me what I want to do later in life?
Questions like getting married, if I have a GF yet, etc.
I don't like the thought of people thinking I'm attracted to humans at all and would be ashamed of it.
Well it's not like I would or want to do that.
But I feel like if others can talk about stuff like this, why can't we?
I haven't asked them why they believe so, because that's pretty obvious.
Their reasoning is mostly that animals cannot give consent and that it is rape.
I've argued with 3-4 people for 11 pages.
The fuck can I else do?
There is no nice way, there is no aggressive way, there is no way to convince them.
That's something I try to, but can't.
My previous reply and this one tell exactly why.
Thanks for trying anyways.
You can tell them it's none of their busines, politely, rudely, or anywhere in between. You can ignore them. You can give any reason you like or none at all. You don't owe them any answers about your personal life and if you don't want to share, don't.
I wouldn't be too quick to presume what another thinks. Many people hold a large number of ideas without ever thinking about them and getting them to consider why they hold their ideas is frequently difficult. I'm not suggesting you do so, but you're the one asking why.
That's sometimes a cited reason, but that doesn't mean they've thought about it, only that they have heard such an agrument and accepted it as true, maybe it is. Unless you're intent on changing their mind or yours, does it matter why they believe whatever it is they believe?
Live your life and not give so many shits what someone else thinks about something which doesn't affect them?
To make any changes in your life and thoughts, you will be the one who has to try. I don't mean to be rude, but it makes little difference to me if you're miserable or happy. I'd rather you be happy, but it's not my problem.
Others are able to talk about human-to-human relationships, and zoos are not able to talk about their relationships, because of "social norms", "cultural norms", taboos, and speciesism.
It matters what the anti-zoos believe (such as their flawed "consent" belief), because they're the ones with power, and they're the ones writing our laws (namely unjust anti-zoo laws) with no open opposition to their agenda.
I know, but WHY should I tolerate that?
I just can't take it.
It doesn't matter what is normal, I don't give a shit when somebody tells unusual stuff.
One another reason why I hate most humans so much.
Reason why I made this thread is because I can't stand it, yet I have to accept it somehow because sheeple won't change.
Do not confuse discussion for thought.
An opinion that is massively popular or unpopular (such as the very one we are discussing) becomes it's own echo chamber, and thought is left at the door.
Yes, I know it's difficult. I avoid some discussions online, and avoid bringing up zoophilia/bestiality irl too, if I can. Nothing good comes out of arguing against those who have already made up their mind.
I also try to think that this problem isn't just my responsibility. I am not responsible for on my own convincing everybody. In those contexts where it's possible, I try to correct misinformation, but only if I think the person I'm talking to is actually willing to listen. But those who won't listen? I can't do anything about it, sadly. I cannot save the world on my own, regardless if it's about sexual freedom, environmental issues or poverty.
I agree with this and feel you.
Though...
Neither do I, or at least kind of.
But I still stand up for zoophilia.
It's still the best choice to do so.
We simply cannot let the bad ones destroy our image even more.
We cannot simply deal with zoo haters. They have a brain disorder. They see only one side of the picture due to a one side dominance of their brains function.
They cannot fathom the idea of sex without love, or sex at all because they are split to one belief that "Love is all you need" In order to understand what zoo haters are thinking, we would have to look at the situation from the perspective of somebody who has a sexual dysfunction resulting from trauma. In other words, a person who has been castrated, has gone through degenerative hormonal changes, or otherwise was born without sex organs and abused by or for it. They are living in a state of sex-free bliss or nightmare, where they do not have to think about or feel the urges of sex in a functional way and they want everybody else to be in this twisted bliss like them. Degenerative and dysfunctional bliss. They're like the cartoon characters on television, who love and play and make friends and get into all sorts of innocent antics, with the twist that everything else is considered to be evil. Life is not a childrens cartoon.
However that too is only one small portion of the zoo hate picture. There are more unfortunately.
As people were growing up, they were hand fed stories of the "rightness" of same-species and heterosexuality, while the stories contained a hidden "wrongness" of cross-species and homosexuality by the threat of impeding doom. Noah's Ark, for example. More recently "The Last Man on Earth." These stories induce the feeling of "Doom" if one were to choose their own path of love and sex, instead of the path to procreation with their own kind. Fear mongering extinction, even though we live in a modern time where such an event is unlikely. Those people who were traumatized by these extinction stories might go on to invade the choices of others, playing the role of a divine savior, to save the human race. Zoophilia, homosexuality, mastrubation, anal sex, oral sex and anything that is not heterosexual, same-species, or procreative sex acts as a "trigger" for this trauma. These acts can trigger the feeling of extinction, impeding doom, anxiety. It is similar to PTSD. The afflicted might feel as if they need to "save" the people from this doom, by putting zoophiles, homosexuals, etc in prison or torturing them away from the trauma triggers with abusive therapies and drugs. Conversely, some people might deal with these feelings of impeding doom by murdering the people who trigger these traumas, as it is felt that anyone who is not heterospecial are "causing" the extinction of the human race. This is the leading cause of things such as "conversion by rape"..."honor killings"..."electro-shock therapy"..."cultural, racial, genocide" which are all caused by traumas being triggered in people who were not properly reintegrated into the reality of the modern world.
In order to "deal" with zoo haters, they must be introduced to zoos in real life, away from the internet where the plague of lies and corruptive degeneration are obviously plentiful. Introduction by internet serves no purpose other than recruitment into groups of hateful, destructive, doomsday cults.
The ideal solution is to remove from influence anybody who does not respect the personal choices of others or aims to corrupt and punish people away from their own choices, from anybody who is in the process of being healed and released from their trauma inductive prisons. People need to be rehabilitated to know they have a choice, and that their choices will not be punished as long as these choices do not greatly impede on or sever the choices of others.
There is nothing wrong with healthy bigot free discrimination, that is what gives us our choices. Hate is different. All hate is the product of trauma, whether accidental or deliberately induced, and in order to free themselves from it they must first accept that their hate is not themselves speaking. They were played and are being played like puppets, to induce these traumas on others to conserve this degenerative cycle of unhealthy bigoted discrimination.
Do not be discouraged this year. The advantages given to the negative influences serves the purpose not to hurt us, but to illuminate them. Use it to your advantage.
I've been a bit lost on where to start with your reply...
I don't understand how every zoo hater has trauma, disorders, etc.
Like, you know that people can become a zoophile BECAUSE of these things?
I really doubt that the majority of humanity does have these things you named.
The rest... I don't understand at all.
Yes, I've already covered that in another topic. Zoophilia can be a symptom. In that regard, the attraction to animals would be accompanied by hate for human beings, or species dysphoria. Generally, these peoples disgust for human beings is greater than their love for animals. This could be potentially dangerous for zoosexuals, who are inevitably human.
The majority of humanity does have traumas, it's just a matter of how the person was split because of it. A person who is attacked or saw somebody attacked by dogs can easily become a dog hater, just like a person who had a brother die of alcoholism can easily become a fanatical alcohol hater who wants to bring prohibition back.
How deeply rooted their trauma is determines whether or not they will avoid the trigger themselves, or force other people to avoid it. Sometimes just the thought that other people look like, act like, smell like, or participate in the "trigger" will set that person off. Seeing porn could activate a trigger if the participants remind the person of a traumatic event.
It's a matter of how a person is exposed to something which determines whether or not they will be traumatized by it, and trauma can spread to others without them actually experiencing that trauma. Traumatized people can be very persuasive, especially when they are comparing and trying to find similarities in their traumas to very different situations.
An example would be a person who is traumatized by motorcycles, but the trauma spreads to include anything with a motor.
The stories of traumatized people alone can be traumatizing to sensitive and emotional people who never actually experienced it. This is called "emotional contagion".
People who were sexually assaulted when children are more likely to fall victim to projection, when a person successfully projects those children's unfortunate circumstance onto an animal, the act of sex with animals will trigger traumatic stress in that person. Technically, their circumstance allowed them to fall victim to manipulation, again. That's why some people wrongly compare zoophiles as being similar to pedophiles. There's a dysfunction in differentiating their situation from the situation of the animal.
The genuine zoos and those people who don't mind zoos practicing are mostly immune to the feeling of disgust regarding sex with animals or sex at all. These people don't have any similar previous traumas to manipulate. They were not traumatized sexually or hold abstract views regarding animals.
That's why these crazy animal activists, anti-zoo, anti animalsex supporters go to great lengths to traumatize people. They are attempting to induce an animal related trauma that can be used as a reference point for further exploitation of people. It's no secret that these people would commit violence against other people and animals, using zoophilia as a mask to hide their real identities. They're scapegoating on zoosexuals.
I'd recommend not trying to understand his posts. They tend to make my brain hurt.
^^^Is ^^^this ^^^a ^^^^30-30V2.0?
[deleted]
No, because 30-30 doesn't make sweeping generalizations and assumptions. I'm getting pretty tired of the people that refuse to recognize that the information from credible sources is stacked against zoos, and this is the most creative way to deny it yet. It's pretty much misinterpreting and inventing psychology concepts to suit his needs and look like an 'expert', I suspect. Fake experts are intimidating to laypersons, and comical to the novices. This is one of those situations.
I was only talking about the over exaggeration like thirty does.
But yeah, you're right.
Care to elaborate on that some? What do you mean by "information from credible sources is stacked against zoos"?
As for people willing to ignore facts, that's a staple of humanity so I find it unsurprising that we have our share of that. It's damn annoying, that's for certain.
Credible as in news agencies. It's not illogical to trust information from the news, especially when all of them are in agreement. Factual or not, there's a reasonable expectation that the news creates accurate depictions.
I thought I might be misunderstanding what you were getting at, I see I was. Thank you for clarifying.
There is a bias among not only news agencies, but from academics and psychologists as well. Here is a quote of bias from an anti-zoo book:
Saying it is "prevailing" is B.S., as the "prevailing" attitude in the 1960s was that gays were mentally ill; and there are many examples like that. It's like saying "the majority says it, so it is true".
How much would you like me to pay in order to become a "credible source?" Do you accept AMEX or are you cash only?
If you're claiming that I am wrong because biased sources /requirements for fact are stacked against my claims and I haven't bribed anybody for credibility... then zoophilia must also be wrong since the biased "credible" sources are stacked against it. You're only limiting yourselves because you're playing into their hands by submitting to their broken rules. If that's the case then you too are broken. Too submissive, rape bait. Can anybody say pushover??
Why won't this damned vending machine take my pennies and half-dollars?! It won't accept all the information, doesn't accept all the currency. It must be trash.
That's why they are so easy to get pushed over. They lack working versatility, mobility, and defense. They're asking to fail.
Pushes over
Petty scapegoat. Self defeat is a learned behavior. The world is scapegoating on you, because you accepted it, but you wouldn't accept my currency?
My conclusion is... these self-defeating zoophiles lowered their own social status. They enjoy being on the bottom with everybody else stacked on top of them indiscriminately. Like the vending machine, they are easily toppled, broken apart, and asking society to reap (or rape) them for everything they're worth.
I didn't agree to that.
Actual science(My field of expertise) makes very little room for bias. You also don't need to bribe anyone to get into a scientific journal... You just need the proper credentials and a study that has feet to stand on. If you can get a study that substantiates your claims, no, ANY study accepted into a peer reviewed journal of psychology, then I'd say you can use yourself as a source for the ideas you've proffered. Not before.
Also, you read my reply wrong.
I could have read it wrong, but let's expand on that.
Proper credentials won't always work. That's why human cloning was, and might still be an illegal practice. Planned Parenthood is stigmatized. You can have the best scientist in the world, with all the right information, but if the "vending machine" (society or otherwise) won't accept the practice or ideas, then the scientists theories and practices will be denied no matter how sound.
If you are a scientist and my theories are somehow deemed to threaten your practice, isn't it obvious that you would do anything in your power to discredit my theories? Including, shocking animals with alternating current to make that form of electricity appear "evil" in the eyes of society. Some scientists are accused of fraud and imprisoned because their methods differ from the "in group", even if those methods do work.
Scientists are biased by their own methods and they will either subconsciously or deliberately skip or deface a part of their own methods to discredit the other. Science is not free from the monopoly. That's what separates a good scientist from a bad scientist, a real scientist from a gold digger. Good scientists are open to new ideas which they can expand on. Good scientists work together to find solutions. Bad scientists deny all ideas to preserve their own ideas dominance. Bad scientists sabotage the research of other.
In an act of fraud, these bad scientists will do everything in their power to suppress and make zoophilia, zoosexuality, and the act sex with animals look bad, instead of finding solutions to make it better or safer. Bad scientists are fraud, but society wouldn't know any better because societies beliefs are known to defraud themselves.
Your theories would be a goldmine to a scientific journal if you could substantiate them. Every psychologist and their mother would want in on it if it turned out to be accurate, and pharmaceutical companies would spin the shit out of it.
No, because if my attempts to discredit you lead to falsities being attributed to me, that's ruinous not for you, but me. One falsified study is enough to have every respectable journal in my field blacklist me.
Methods in a study meant for a peer reviewed journal cannot be significantly affected by bias, and holes in methodology are ripped into regardless of how 'popular' the results would be(Because frankly, the peer reviewers don't really care whether they agree or not). The only bias that a scientist knows is what he chooses to study. If I don't want to substantiate the value of electricity, I don't study the applications of it. But today, I can't just fabricate results or fall prey to bias unless I plan on submitting my study to the rags that even bloggers have the sense not to cite.
Oh yes. The "don't go there" factor. When everybody has humanity in common, they wouldn't want to "go there" and say "all" human studies contain human flaws.
If all studies are human, and all humans have flaws... then in logic, all studies are flawed no matter how many peers are involved and no matter how many journals are written by humans with flaws. The proposed absence of flaws in humans and human methods is once again the proof of what I was trying to say. Humans are flawed in overbearing love or hate of themselves.
Blacklisting, is the method by which those people with flaws suppress or destroy evidence of their own flaws that the other perspective makes apparent. Again, this is more of a matter of humanity coming to terms with and realizing themselves for what they are and what they're capable of, not who they expect themselves to be by the limitations they've set..
Peer review exists for the sole purpose of detecting said flaws, and they definitely do want to go there. It's a new avenue of study to capitalize on, and again, it's a goldmine. Frontier science is a highway to fame and fortune, and discovering the 'fix for human error' would be one helluva highway.
In all my years as a geneticist, I've never seen a flaw in humans or animals. Or life in general. Injury, yes, disease, absolutely, but never a flaw. There is no empirical basis for what a flaw would be, and the closest we have is what we call a 'disorder', but that only indicates deviation from normal functioning. Your reasoning, as far as you'd like to extend it, is only sound to a layperson. The results of a study must include margins of error and are often processed using statistical analysis, which is a mathematical and inherently unbiased approach to data parsing, and one that peer reviewers can verify without any fault. Studies are looks into correlations, and while flaws can exist in a study, the safeguards in place make a 'bad' study almost impossible to publish in a peer reviewed journal. Whatever flaws there are are rarely significant enough to cause a functional difference as it relates to the results, and repeated measures as well as replication studies reduce the likelihood of a majorly flawed study ever reaching that point. It would seem that you don't know very much about scientific studies, or the lengths that people go to to test them. Well, most people don't, I suppose, but if you're going to play psychologist, you should at least know what a T-Test is.
Relevant image
Don´t want to interrupt your conversation, but I want to let you know I think you´re an excellent mod for this thread. First, I was a bit sceptical about that, but you really convinced me with actual knowledge. Kudos, amorebestia.
Thank you!
That means alot coming from you, considering how difficult it seems to garner your approval.
Er... I don't suppose this means you'll try being more polite for me though, does it? It'd be nice to go a week without receiving complaints about this subreddit being hostile and people feeling attacked in the modmail, now more than ever. Updating everything and implementing the infrastructure for all the changes has been quite the draining experience. I know the issue of hostility is systemic at this point, but every bit helps. Seeing the consistent drop in the sub's stats is disheartening as it is...
Sorry if that makes the thank you portion seem a bit less heartfelt, but when you're charged with caring for the community, stuff like this becomes much more stressful, especially when the high of getting stuff done wears off.
Do you compare me to this lunatic in any way? Don´t do that, please.
Regarding your little problem with the outside world and the hostility towards zoophilia, I can only recommend adjusting your perspective. The outsiders have their reasons to hate ; newspaper articles, anti zoophilia propaganda and negative bias are only partially to blame for that. You have to understand how much our world is dependent on animal exploitation. You also have to realise the extreme consequences for literally everything when animals are seen as equal. Just try to imagine a world with animal rights equal to human rights. Think about it for a while. This would end human existence as we know it today, this would end the world we live in today and replace it with something else that many humans, zoo and non zoo people alike, fear. Meat eating, using animals to pamper your ego , the always present superiority complex most humans are suffering from when it comes to animals, etc...I think I´ve said it before in some thread....Zoophilia can be psychedelic, mind moving.Not only for an individual, but also for whole mankind. Compare it to Galileo Galilei, the man who dared questioning the terracentric weltbild of medieval times. He surely had to endure the same amount of hatred...not only for attacking old beliefs. There´s nothing more dangerous than cutting down the ever present human feeling of being extraordinary, special. When we zoophiles claim that we love an animal as "normal" humans love their partner, we practically attack this human extraordinarity ("Only humans can love!") and saw on mankind´s throne . This is why you get away with basically ANY repulsive behavior , even the worst, most ridiculous or most selfish as long as you stick to humans. Zoophilia basically is seen as "marrying below your own class" and thus is an affront to entire mankind.
What I´d really recommend is reading. Read Max Horkheimer, Theodor Adorno, Herbert Marcuse and Erich Fromm. Read about being different in a world that´s increasingly "gleichgeschaltet", mainstreamed. Read about capitalism and exploitation, and how both of these are intertwined and cannot exist without each other.
Once you have understood that zoophilia in its genuine form isn´t "just another segment of human sexuality" , but social dynamite (well, more like a social Tsar bomb), you stop wondering about the hostility. They , the outsiders, don´t hate you for what you´re doing so much, they hate you for what you´re symbolising.
I´d say, you let others influence you too much. Yeah, thzere are haters out there and they are plenty. SO WHAT?!? Have you seen "Donnie Darko"? Do you remember what Roberta Sparrow, Grandma Death told Donnie? "Everyone dies alone". Just some words, as it might seem...but actually, this is wisdom. It doesn´t matter what others think of you...you´ll die alone, with all of your inconsistencies, all the sins you committed, all the bad stuff you did although you technically knew better. You´ll die alone and only you will have to judge your life. No god, no other superior power, "sinn feín". Study philosophy. Read Nietzsche´s "Zarathustra" in which he stated that, the "higher" you climb the ladder, the more lonely you become. Realise that everything comes with a price and the price for zoophilia apparently is alienation and loneliness/disconnection to mankind to some degree. You can´t have one without having to accept the other.
...the next time you feel harassed by the vast amount of online hatred against "zoophilia" (or what the "normies" think it is), crank up the volume to max and listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ5GdigqMgc
News articles, propaganda, anti zoo bias... They're all "sensory inputs" that go in through the eyes and ears to program sensitive people. These people have no "mental-firewall" because theyre too young to have built one (children), or had theirs broken down or disabled by a traumatic event.
I'm just elaborating on how it works and who is most vulnerable to it. I'm going deeper than most people have the guts to go and avoiding the self defeating, learned helplessness of this situation. It's not that people can't understand what I'm saying... they were just programmed to block it out.
Human beings experience a type of Stockholm Syndrome of their own species and themselves. It is the "bad" side of self realization. They are prisoners in their own mind, caught up in "Self-Love" which is associated with Narcissistic Personality Disorders. If anybody threatens the pride of the NPD individual (who is a prisoner of themselves in their own mind) by sleeping with an animal (who is not human or themselves), the NPD individual will express anger and sometimes violence towards these people who sleep with animals. It's a desperate action to repair the fragile ego of the human race and themselves, who the NPD individual is unfortunately and subconsciously a prisoner of. "Self-hating" zoos are a good example of how this phenomenon works. They hate themselves for not sucking up to "the warden" the human ego.
However, to work past this debilitating circumstance, people must realize that they can sleep with animals and it will not actually affect the human ego unless they let their own ego trample all over them.
Would you please stop addressing me in any shape or form? Don´t aswer my replies, I can live without this one-sided gibberish, this pseudo-scientific spilling of buzzwords. Or maybe, stick to your brother-in-mind, Zqwm7/Skg...(whatever)...yeah, it´s always the others who are to blame. BOOOORING!
Talking about ego, you don´t even realise how detrimental this trench fight narrative of your is? How far you push outsiders who happen to read your tirades away from us? " Wenn du´s magst, biste cool, wenn nicht, biste ´n Bastard!" as German rap group KIZ puts it ("If you like it, then you´re cool, if not, you´re a bastard!").
By the way, I assume that "Sheppsoldier" is a duplicate account of Zqwm7/Skg.... well, mate, you tried to install your vile rhetoric in BF for years now, but had no success in doing so. Not even the mindless beasties of BF buy what you´re tryin´ to sell. Also very funny how you don´t hesitate to "analyse" everyone opposed to animal sex, but fail to apply the same analysis to yourself. I suggest you quit posting your manic rants and give everything a real diligent and long thought.
If you continue with this, you leave me no choice but to fuck you up really hard. I don´t want to, but if you force me to, you´ll regret it, I guarantee. We all can live better without your one-sided rants, without your "Only the others are to blame" attitude and "If you don´t like fucking animals, you have a sickness in your head" accusations. I hope I made myself perfectly clear. I have drawn a line now, don´t you step over it. Or face the consequences. I won´t allow this poison to be spilt in here anymore. So, take your "self hate" and stick it up to where the sun doesn´t shine...
No I am not a duplicate. I've spoken to Zqwm and we have some differing beliefs. Im that guy who's been banned 5-6 times and I still have over 100+ accounts on both beastforum and zoophilesforum. I mean really, they banned me that many times? Banning is the internet equivalent of murder. The moderators must be hiding some deep emotional disturbances if they have to resort to that. Like a rapist who kills his victims after sex.. Clearly sick in the head.
I guess I can't blame anybody for their misconceptions and half-facts though. You can't help yourselves! There's nothing you can do to fuck me up, because you won't. Won't support zoophiles rights. Won't protect them or their animals. Very good at not doing things. Perhaps you are masters at jerking off in things. Please, don't take this as offensive but you are useless so don't waste time threatening me. I know more about you and I'm sure I've never even seen you.
I must have dug my claws so deep to make you squeal like that right? Can only plunge so deep before it straightens that ass out.
Why are you so sensitive?
Or this. :D
These aren't valid reasons to hate.
Seriously, NEWS ARTICLES? WHAT A GODDAMN GOOD REASON!
Oh yes, I've heard that a man killed someone in a news article!
ALL MAN ARE KILLERS! LOCK THESE DISGUSTING PEOPLE UP!
These people's reasons don't make sense and for that reason their hate is extremely irrational.
I don't understand what you're saying.
That I should understand them? Yeah dude, I don't have anything against you at all, except this attitude.
I'm not going to suck their dicks and just tell them I can't blame them.
And yes, I've tried adjusting my perspective.
I'm not a zoophile anymore, I see all the bad news about ''bestiality and zoophilia.''
And the fuck do I do?
I don't blindly believe everything that I see in the news.
Being a zoophile made me learn that I shouldn't blindly believe everything and judge something too fast.
I'm a less toxic being because of that, luckily.
I didn't say animals have to be exactly equal to humans anywhere.
But we shouldn't treat them like they're mindless plants with four legs and that we can just cut their balls of and shit.
I can understand animals being seen as less, but the way it is now? Fuck no.
What?
I swear if you're saying that I shouldn't judge them for being dumb fucks, aint gonna happen unless I find a good reason.
People are traumatized by zoophilia because they can't think straight.
Awwwwww, saddy kiddos still have yet to grow up...
I take it you're saying the same thing over and over again in different ways.
''Society is innocent.''
I really don't get it.
Yeah, too bad for them.
I see marrying with another human is weird.
I'd rather fuck another creature instead of the same one as me, especially this annoying species I hate.
This, is also just their problem.
I'm usually judged for my actions, not what I'm ''symbolizing.''
But yes, that still happens.
So what?
Yeah sorry I like something else, you can hate me now. And don't forget to make the reasons even more irrational, apes!
Just like anyone else, you're telling me just to forget all of that and leave everyone's opinions behind me.
It's not that simple, or at least not for me.
I don't care that people have been treated worse, I don't deserve this hate. End of fuckin story.
I don't take misjudged opinions and insults so kindly.
Oh it's that logic.
I might as well just do what I want then, as long as I enjoy it.
Because in the end, nothing matters, right?
I might as well just do all the stuff I like, even hurting others, because in the end, it doesn't matter.
This isn't just hate, it's dangerous hate.
We are people that will get killed if we get exposed.
Y'know, or you were telling me all this time I shouldn't get bothered by them because they're sheep, yeah it doesn't work that way.
Ouch, my ears.
Humans aren't instruments, so I prefer no lyrics most of the time.
But this... is even worse.
Errrmmm...humans are irrational beings , so are THEY, the ones that upset you, but SO ARE YOU as you impressively show in this thread. Irrationality and prejudice both serve evolutionary purposes. There once was a time where prejudice saved your life, you cannot sit down and discuss with a Sabretooth. These evolutionary imprints are deeply embedded into the human (sub-)consciousness and cannot be eradicated by knowledge or civilisation. Without these, humans wouldn´t be more than robots, cold and logic.
Don´t be such a dramaqueen. As a zoophile, you are ought to have advanced understanding of animals...and humans are animals, too. Humans are humans. Period. Complaining about them, their irrationality or anything else is pointless, useless and only serves to support your plunge into depression faster.
I absolutely can´t relate to your current state of mind ´cause I never experienced such a deep dive into desperation. From the earliest time on, I was aware that I´m different and my life wouldn´t be exactly what you´d call "smoothly goin´". I know that being a zoo always is a struggle, but I also realised quickly that giving in to them is not an option, that yearning for "being loved" is basically a trait of the ego.
In "One flew over the Cuckoo´s nest", McMurphy (Jack Nickolson) was given the choice between jail and attending a mental asylum. He chose the latter, but being the real anarchist he was, he didn´t care to complain about his situation; no, he immediately used all his power and energy to alter the situation in there. He refused to accept Sister Rachel´s authority, he opposed every authority, not for the "fame" of it, but for the pure anarchistic personality trait he possessed.
Try to be a little more like McMurphy, for god´s sake. I know, it is hard , but this actually is your only chance to remain halfway sane. The more you give in, the smaller your chances to keep your sanity are. The more you emphasize all the hardships involved in being a zoophile, the less of a responsible partner for your dog you´ll become. Just let go. The only way to deal with an unbearable situation is to withstand your impulses...compare it to being tattooed. Not pleasant, not at all, especially when the needles pinch your throat, kneecaps, armpits, palms and fingers. But you don´t die from it, you can withstand it with the power of your mind. People tend to underestimate how much they can bear and so do you, mate.
I´ve gone through similar phases , questioning whether it all is worth it. And everytime I came near the point where I came close to giving in, this tiny voice in my head starts whispering "When you falter, then they have won". And that helped me, always. Being the misanthrope that you claim to be, how it comes you give so much about what the species you despise so much has to say about you and your kind? Can you live with the idea that THEY have won?
You may have guessed it from the video I linked, I´m a metalhead. I was when we headbangers were seen as evil persons in service of satan. I got my first tattoo in 1990, when being tattooed wasn´t a hipster symptom and people fled me when I showed my ink openly. I always was the strange guy, always the one who was different, dangerous and somewhat suspicious. I smoke weed since I turned 18, another little "feature" that earned me society´s despise. Well, I´m used to hatred and opposition, I was born in it, it always accompanied me when I grew up, being the only one bookworm among my classmates. In puberty, I was sitting in front of my C64 while my friends were outside, playing football. I guess I´d get an aneurysm when something I do is respectable and not reviled upon by society, so much am I used to constant opposition in my life. Even my profession brought me lots of mockery from my friends..."What? You will become a riding instructor? Are you gay, ffs?!? What´s wrong with you, you fairy???".
Sorry to say, but growing a thicker skin is the only practical advice that is appropriate here. Dreaming your world into a smooth and comfortable one doesn´t work, trust me, I tried. ;) I too had lots of evenings sitting at home, thinking and thinking, arguing with myself...but I always came up with the same results. I too wished the circumstances were better, or people weren´t so hateful...but in the end, it all depends on yourself and how you deal with this negativity. And when you run into someone who is NOT like everyone else every once in a while, you suddenly begin to understand that this pessimism is a bland overgeneralisation and you´re basically suffering from your own perception bias. Let´s analyse your situation, Wardog....yeah, there is much crap out there, in the internet, in the heads of people, coming out of their mouths, etc....but whenever my faith in myself dwindled, I only had to take a deep look into my mare´s eyes and , boom, there was it, the only , but strongest reason to resist all of that. Her presence made me remember why I am doing this and why it doesn´t matter at all how I feel about it. When you´re in love, you don´t belong to yourself anymore. My doubts ceased to count anymore, all the insults were gone in an instant. And if enduring all the hatred is what´s the price , then bring it on....
To cure you from this, quit the net for a while. Spend the time with your dog and ask yourself if she isn´t all worth it, all the hatred, the social stigma, the damnation by society. The moment you can answer this question with a yelled "YES!!FUCK, YES!!!", your problem is gone. You don´t need me, this sub or anything else for getting to terms with yourself, you only need HER. She will answer all your questions.
P.S: What?!? Who doesn´t like Fear Factory? Waaaahhh! You´re a metalphobe hater!!! ;) Jokes aside...see? It´s totally okay with me to dislike my preferred music style, (and that´s not even the "worst" band I listen to), I don´t get depressed when someone isn´t d´accord with me. Quite the opposite, I feel more like myself when I like stuff no one else likes...not that I´d select music by the numbers of fans, but , well.... And don´t forget: " Anger is a gift" Get angry every once in a while, anger is cathartic and can get you through days you otherwise wouldn´t survive. The countless times I came home and made my neighbor´s lamps shake by blasting Napalm Death, Carcass and Brutal Truth as loud as my stereo allowed....music surely helped saving my life very often.
Can you give some examples?
If it's the fact that I can't stop myself from hating them back, I really can't blame myself but these apes.
Saved my life? More like made it worse.
There's no purpose to ignoring truth and thinking like a rational person.
I really don't see how that would make us ''cold, robots, etc.''
I don't see that as an excuse.
If we can think how we think, then others can too.
Because here's a surprise: We just happens to be humans too. Wow!
I just won't accept the fact that their skulls are thick as they are.
And the more I suck their dick.
I'm not just going to let it all slide and let it happen.
Honestly, I'd grow even more insane if I accepted it and went on.
I know that because there was a time I did that, probably the dumbest and weakest part of my life.
I don't see how that is true.
I get distracted by the negative vibe that surrounds me, but it doesn't change anything at all.
I cannot control such thing.
It's not like I'll end up hating her or harm her either.
And hey, I've never asked to be a zoophile.
Though, you've made me think...
Maybe there's a way to distract myself from zoophilia itself?
Man, stop making me think of the perfect utopia...
I don't really get what you're saying.
Seems like another ''believe!'' message, which sadly does not work on me.
Maybe because...
I MUST live with these things all day?
There are no ways to avoid humans.
Also, the fact that people hate zoos so much is one of the biggest reasons of my misanthropy.
May seem childish, but hey, I didn't choose this either.
Sorry 99% of humanity that I hate you. I'm totally the one to blame that I don't like being treated like shit.
And no, I can't live with the idea that they've won, which makes all of this worse.
It's just an endless cycle of... well, this.
I don't know where you're going with this.
You know that I have the exact same stuff happen to me?
Except I don't exactly belong in the same groups, but I can relate.
As I said, zoophilia's hate is different.
This is an answer that I feared.
In my opinion, this thread completely loses it's purpose as I thought it was an option, not a requirement.
But I guess I still got my answer, sadly it won't do much to me.
I've met one person who wasn't against this whole thing.
Didn't really change anything for me, I was just happy for a sec.
There's still thousands of antis out there, so that won't change shit.
Except I get distracted if negativity surrounds me.
This does not work for me.
I've literally lost my taste of love because of hatred and fear.
It mostly isn't worth it, I know.
Still won't change my hatred and fear.
I need contact with other zoos.
There's times where I didn't and feel alone.
I'm surrounded by antis, even the people who I am supposed to trust.
I'm glad I can vent here and actually don't get fucked by antis in the ass.
Also, she doesn't answer anything.
I just feel nothing but emptiness.
Idgaf either if somebody doesn't like the same stuff as me.
Hate all the games I like, good for you.
But zoophilia's hate is misplaced and way more serious.
I'd go more in depth, but you know the story yourself.
Still, I don't think there is a way to accept us getting hated.
I recommend just leaving this thread as nothing will change.
I haven't changed, ever.
As a person, I always complain about shit and then worry my ass off about it from time to time.
There's no cure for my bad personality.
It'll either fix itself or doesn't, because I hope this is another "I hate everything phase."
Edit: Fuck, you made me feel guilty because I looked at her enjoying herself, even though I haven't done anything.
I guess the "zoo hate" gets all put in one place and bothers the fuck out of me from time to time.
It's not that brutal, you're just a simple person. You don't know what I'm thinking. Maybe I like to see people with deep personal disturbances reply to my comments? Everything I do is worth the effort, whether you understand my intentions or not, your misunderstanding is not my problem.
There's no real drama here The perception you've mistakenly interpreted from my emotionless text might appear to be drama if you're a dramatic person yourself. Nothing but periods here. That's you're imagination speaking. In hindsight, I might have lured you into this. Sorry!
No. 30-30 makes sense. He just does it in a painful way.
I have a love/hate relationship with him. I love him because he's usually spot on. I hate him because he can't say it without a ranting wall of hateful text that renders most of it moot.
I just kinda feel pain when I think about Sheppsoldier, because his thoughts don't seem to add up in any way shape or form.
Blame shifting. It's not my fault you cant do simple math. That's why it's hurting you and not me. Logic rocks.
Logic does rock. I reccomend you try it sometime.
By the way, I have far above average scores in math. :p
Wrong kind of math genius. Theres more than just one. Try applying those high school boundaries to real life. Keep dreaming. Keep hiding. Keep ignoring the truths you can't stomach. I must be a real threat to your imaginations, safe spaces. What else triggers you?
Let's find out!
I "observe" there's limited room for new ideas here. Very, unusually Orthodox. Must have deep emotional disturbances. If you're living by the book then you should probably drop zoophilia all together. Real people don't hide anything behind the book, so you must not be real.
Did you know it's actually counter-productive to avoid your triggers? Observation is a very important aspect of the scientific method. If you ignore your triggers you'll never actually see anything and make progress. Creativity leads to breakthroughs. If you're not creative and ignore the observations, what good are you?
Can you stop your crazy replies to me? I'm trying to avoid using the ignore function.
Avoidant personality disorder. Avoiding everything.
Do it. I dare you. Like a rapist who avoids his problems by killing them. Like the problem never existed.
There are real zoos and there are fake ones. Which one like animals for the animals, and which ones like the animals because they can't speak?
I can tell the difference and your making it easy. Just like that Anti-Zoophilia person. They like the easy ones that don't fight back.. the ones that can be spoken for and "shut up" ignored when they protest.
Oh.. you're all the same until you're different, huh?
I mean hey, I like animals because they won't lie and give personal information to bad people, however I won't go as far as shutting people out who have better information than I do. There's a clear distinction between the two. If I'm crazy because I'm speaking the truth, then there must be a major problem with society. That would explain all the scapegoating. A weakness.
By that theory, you should know more about the opposition than you think you do or that you're willing to admit.
You can invent your own universe with it's own rules and call me whatever you want.
But no, I don't ignore. I just get frustrated. So it's only a request, but you have every right to be as crazy as you want to be.
I'm no authority on handling zoo hate as you can imagine, but if my own casual observation has been of any indication, zoo hate is much less prevalent than it's made out to be. The issue, as I see it, is that you have a vocal minority that's large enough and active enough that they end up appearing to have more influence than your avg. person. The rest of them just like to make mean faced at it every couple of months, or are open to the other side of the discussion and simply haven't been exposed to it yet..
At any rate, you know yourself better than the people who are loathe to what you are will ever care to know. They don't know just how authentic your relationships are in particular, and they're never speaking to what you are as a person when they make those attacks; they're attacking the boogeyman they made in their head based on preconceived notions or examples with only tangential connections to you. Even though they're seemingly directing it towards you... the people they really want to aim it at are completely different from what you are.
Sorry if this sounds a bit out there or loopy. Just woke up 4 hours into sleeping and decided to check reddit and am very groggy..
I get really confused why people don't see the hate is bigger as it is.
I type zoophilia or bestiality, whoops there's hate.
Zoophilia or bestiality cannot be brought up without at least 50%~ shitting on it.
You're the first non-zoo who I see support zoophilia.
I've had a group of 3050 people hate me just because I am a zoo.
No one was on my side.
I've heard topics about bestiality enough times.
Never, have I heard a non-zoo defend zoophilia / bestiality.
There's a reason bestiality is illegal almost everywhere and that nobody gives a fuck about it.
That's what makes this worse.
Insults are painful when they're not true, especially when everybody takes them seriously.
You see, I mostly get offended when something's not true.
I'll be honest with you, it's because lots of people want to avoid it. Guilt by association, as they say. Defending zoophilia is an easy ticket to the "I bet you're one of them, too!" argument, and for alot of people it's just too much trouble. And those that are simply neutral don't care to get in the middle of it either.
Well, I'll tell you one thing... I'm not the first, and I'm far from being the only one. Your subjective experience will be in conflict with this, that much is obvious, but zoophiles are not unequivocally reviled by outsiders. I often consult with friends about certain discussions on here, to get their own take on it, and I'm happy to note that all of them are either reasonable, interested, or indifferent about it.
Look at it this way, they aren't even talking about you at that point, and you know that if they knew everything you know that they'd probably change their tune. Everyone, in their lifetime, will be disliked by one group or another, be it for going about their day a certain way, or simply existing. Sometimes those groups will be larger or more active than others, but the hate is rarely if ever personal, and that's what really matters IMO. So long as the people who really know you recognize that you wouldn't dare take to depravity, their insults shouldn't have any weight. They can't do anything to you, and would probably be more content to continue throwing insults anyway. Of course, putting that belief into practice is another issue entirely, but it's the truth. It's how I made it through K-12, really. I was the biggest pariah in the school all through middle school. The reason I made it through unscathed was because I still had friends through all of it, people that became closer to me the more they knew about me... not more distant. I don't know if that helps, but I felt it worth saying.
Please tell me why people still talk about bestiality or zoophilia if they want to avoid it?
Why do we constantly get confronted with it?
I don't like human+human either, I don't spread it to people either.
I'm not going to call it wrong for that reason.
I never talk about it, only now because I have to make a comparison.
The logic of such people is still flawed in that case.
That seems reasonable.
Although, the majority still hates us and bestiality is still illegal almost everywhere.
Okay okay, I have seen non-zoos defend zoophilia / bestiality, but not in a pro-zoo way.
Worst thing is, all of them are now zoo haters. Great.
I'm jealous of you.
Yeah, there's nothing else to say.
''knew everything''
Sorry, but what is 'everything' in this case?
Yeah, I know that happens and haven't been bothered by getting hated.
But zoo hate is something more serious.
This isn't just hate, it's dangerous hate.
One slip of my real name and suicide is probably the only option I have at that point.
It's also very serious hate, it's that we're seen as actual dangerous people to animals.
If I shut up it's not personal, but that's not what really bothers me.
I WISH it was more personal because I'm being compared to actual animal rapists.
And non-personal hate still means it's hate against me, and my ^^^ehm... ^^...comrades?
About the other stuff, I don't know.
It's not worth even to reply to this thread anymore.
Because y'see, I asked for help, yet I can't follow any of the advice given to me.
And it's fucking 4:20 AM.
I really hope I'm not embarrassing myself here, I don't know if I even typed anything that made sense in my sleep drunkenness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling
Some non-zoos I've heard in the news defending zoosexual stuff include Peter Singer, Carl Person, and Michael Roberts, all of whom have publicly stated reasons who zoo isn't wrong. Others, such as Hani Miletski (who published stuff about zoo), didn't exactly "defend" it but were at least somewhat neutral. But your point is valid, the number of non-zoos supporting zoos should be much higher than it is.
Even if there's people defending zoophilia, it won't have any effect.
It would have an effect if the numbers of neutral / pro people were bigger than the antis. Which is sad, because that will never happen.
In fact, just by existing we are destroying our own image.
Defending zoophilia or bestiality already pisses the people off and they'll spread the hate.
Or even just the words itself'll do enough.
Endless cycle of nothing, that's what this is.
Thinking of a solution results in headaches and misanthropy.
Man, it's so lovely to be a zoophile.
I live such a great life!
Not really, straight numbers don't matter nearly that much. Resources and manpower do. The pressident of a small asociation with political contacts can achieve more political goals than a legion of his opposers if such opposers don't want to burn up resources and money in order to fight him back.
But getting back to the topic, I don't expect large masses or people to support us, even less with our current arguments.
An ongoing problem is that there is no organization for zoos to rely on for support; it is rare for a particular group to have NO organizations at all to rely on, but this is the case with zoos. With no organization, they are powerless.
A person could file a lawsuit against a state's anti-zoo law, though that would cost a lot of money, and the person would have to endure public stigma.
"I type Trump or Hillary, whoops there's hate"
Just some food for thought.
Pretty much.
Some reasonably large group hates you no matter what. Get used to it.
That is also known as prejudice — that is, judging someone in a discriminatory way based on ignorance and without reason.
Some of the worst things anti-zoos say are on petition sites such as Change.org; I don't know why it is that way. I also don't know why Change.org allows them (anti-zoo stuff), but gets rid of anything pro-zoo. Here is an example of some of the things they said on an online petition I found:
Notice their use of the bigoted word "sick" over and over again. Their comments really are like a lynch mob, and their ignorance and bigotry is clear. (They're all irrational). They also try to dehumanize zoos.
Also want to mention a lie that an anti-zoo said in an article. This is a quote of it:
That quote is from this anti-zoo propaganda article: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/barbara-cartwright/canada-bestiality-laws_b_11911378.html ; She espouses the lie that zoos are "linked" to violent people.
Also "Pet-abuse.com", an anti-zoo site, says this:
The term "sexual assault of an animal" is a commonly-used anti-zoo propaganda term.
To answer your question, I don't know how zoos should deal with them, because if a zoo tries to confront them and criticize their hatred, intolerance and bigotry, they will viciously fight back — and they have society and the "law" on their side, which doesn't help. (In fact, the laws are written by them and their anti-zoo zealots, like those in the HSUS).
One problem that needs to be addressed: the fact that anti-zoos keep referring to interspecies sex as a "crime", even in places where it isn't illegal. Their delusional view is that zoosex is inherently wrong and inherently a "crime" (rather then a lifestyle or sexual orientation).
Zoos also have no organizations to fight against the anti-zoos and their hate.
Well, yeah, I knew most of that. Just...
What bothers me is just that I can't understand how they think, no matter how much you tell me this.
I just want to know how their minds work, like why ignore the truth in front of your eyes?
There is no fucking reason to.
I'd ignore these people because they're dumb, but the numbers of people are big and the fact that all my friends/family would believe this BS is more bothering than anything.
But thanks for your comment, it helped me more than the others as it made a bit more sense and actually didn't ignore the fact that there's thousands of hate out there and that we're quite defenseless.
You make yourselves defenseless. That is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Their method of thinking involves ignorance, speciesism, as well as irrationality. (And their following of "social norms"). The way they "other" zoos is what has been done to marginalized and stigmatized groups throughout history.
Yes. That is their fundamentalist box. A reality block. Closet dwellers.
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Man,
One does not discuss with an incoming tidal wave. One simply leaves the area.
It is absolutely hopeless and pointless. Every minute you do this could be a minute you could be spending with a loved one instead on a hike or cuddling on the sofa.
F them, go live a happy life, don't waste a thought on idiots needing to hate other people.
I wish I could give you good advice but I can't :(
/u/WarCanine Relate to them and show them that their hate doesn't bother you. I go looking for haters and so I can talk to them, I have -100 points in subreddit drama because someone made a topic about so what did I do? I went in to talk to them, sure I got the usual calls of monster, rapist, etc but what I find fascinating is that there usually seems to be one or two people who just want to know why.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/356hzt/rtil_learns_a_lot_more_about_umrwoofles_sexual/cr1p2fi/ <--ref