Given that this is my first (second) post on this subreddit, I´d like to introduce myself to the community before I proceed with my question. I am a heterosexual man in his late 20’s, who is living in Austria, a small, landlocked country of approximately 8 million inhabitants next to Germany. Unlike most zoophiles, I discovered my sexual and romantic attraction to mares relatively late, meaning that I had already turned 20 when I eventually found out what being with female equines means to me. I still recall reading an article in a German horse magazine about a young IT engineer who had a sexual relationship with his mare. Although the author took a clearly negative stance on zoophilia, citing the well-known “animals have no way of expressing consent“ argument several times, she did not negate the strong emotional bond between this guy and his horse. To me, this was the moment I finally understood and accepted my sexual orientation as part of my personality. While I would still refer to myself as heterosexual, meaning that I am sexually attracted to women, I haven’t been in a relationship for about 4 years now, which is roughly the period of time I know my mare. It is incredibly hard for me to find the right words to express how I feel about my sexual orientation – especially regarding the fact that English is not my native language. The only thing I can do is talk about its implications for my current lifestyle: Ever since I own my mare, who I have been in touch with since the day she was born, I have never felt the desire to enter a relationship with a woman. Honestly, this does not comprise the sexual aspect, which, at least in my opinion, should not be the key motivation to search for a human partner, after all. On an emotional level, in turn, my affection for mares equals my feelings for women, making it virtually impossible for me to feel love for anyone else but my mare, be it a human or a non-human animal.
My mare is now roughly four years old, and over the last few weeks, I have intensified my training with her, so that I might be able to ride her for the first time in spring. Despite the fact that I have been taking riding lessons as a teenager, breaking or starting a horse is something that I’m not familiar with, at all. To be honest, my lack of skills and experience gives me a feeling of guilt sometimes, which derives from the notion that my mare would have deserved somebody who really knows what he is doing. Nevertheless, I have already requested professional assistance to make sure I’m not making mistakes, especially not in this crucial phase of training. So, after all, I feel quite confident that everything is going to work out fine.
To get back to why I actually started this thread, I have been questioning myself if being a zoophile gives you a different perspective on what you do with your horse or horses in general. Thus, I’d like to ask the community to express their thoughts on the matter: Do you believe that your sexual orientation has an impact on how you ride or train horses? Is there a connection between your sexuality and the way horses interact with you? And third, do you think that zoophiles may develop a special form of interspecies communication, which sets them apart from regular members of the equestrian community?
Before I answer any of your questions, let me emphasize how important it is you hand over your horse to an experienced, professional rider. In this young age, any incorrect signals will be internalised by the horse real quick and getting the bad habits out of a horse is way more stressful than properly teaching a young horse. I highly recommend taking riding lessons...both with and without your own horse. Although teaching a young horse isn´t complicated, you will definitely run into situations in which you´re simply not trained well enough to do the right things at the right moment. Remember: what you teach your horse now will be the basis of any potential further development. Please take note that young horses have not developed proper balance yet and the additional weight of a rider can be quite detrimental if you don´t have the textbook sturdy, but flexible well balanced seat in the saddle.
Oh, just in case you run into problems, feel free to ask me when something is unclear. I´m a professional riding instructor , can teach showjumping up to L level and ride dressage myself at L and M levels, slowly moving up to S level. I´m sitting in the saddle for nearly 30 years now and have ridden lots of "difficult" horses their owners said were unrideable. Ask me whenever you need help.
Now for your questions: my orientation definitely had an impact on my riding style. My refusal to use a whip and/or spurs nearly ended my apprenticeship and only my riding skills saved me from being thrown out.I never hit or punish a horse, I never do the rocking and ripping motion of what Germans call "riegeln" (many unskilled riders use that as their last resort, when they feel they´re losing control of the horse). My sexuality definitely made me rethink any action a "normal" rider would do without wasting a thought on it.
I´d say that there is a connection between my orientation and how I deal with horses...and vice versa , too. But you shouldn´t consider this as a given, being sexually interested in animals doesn´t turn you into Sanct Equine. It takes more than that. My mare always saw me as a fellow horse and I can´t say whether this directly is linked to my sexual orientation or more of a general personality feature of me...I always saw myself as a horse in a human body (not like the anthros, furries and therians) and many other horseowners seemed to see it that way, too. When given one Euro every time I heard someone else calling me a "natural", a "horsewhisperer" or even "half horse", I could easily invite everyone in here for some beers.
Your last question is a tricky one as many zoophiles are unable to objectively judge their animal communication skills. With all the experience of more than 25 years meeting zoos on- and offline, I seldom ran into someone with a natural understanding of "animal language". Most zoos turned out to be no different from the usual "normal" animal owner totally convinced that he understands his animal perfectly although reality tells otherwise. Thuis, I´d say that zoophilia CAN be of great help trying to establish real communication with your animal, but it isn´t an obligatory consequence of being sexually and emotionally interested in animals.The chances to run into a delusional zoo insisting on his advanced communication skills although nothing backs up that claim are equally high as running into an equally delusional, but non zoo, " normal" owner. Zoophilia does not make you immune to delusions and self foolery. In the end, it all boils down to your character and how serious you take your zoo duty of improving communication with your quadruped companion. And let´s be honest, most "equine zoos´" interest in horses ends when it goes beyond "fuckability"...as long as the "zoo" can get his rocks off, everything is "cool". Being a zoo can help in developing a genuine interspecies communication, but this path isn´t walked by many.
Being a zoophile can give you some advantages when dealing with horses, but it isn´t necessarily so.Only a few are brave enough and willing to sacrifice enough to climb the entire ladder, most just hop on the first step and yell "I´m on top!".Zoophilia surely has influenced me on how I treat horses, but when I really go through my memories in retrospective, the one really teaching me the ways of horses was my mare. She influenced me more than my sexual orientation did. Sure, my love for her played a role in this, but it was my respect for her as an individual that made me into what I am today. I´ve met some really talented, but totally non zoo riders who let many zoos turn away in shame. I met horse zoos so fucking clueless about horse language, too. I guess, developing a special communication skill with your animal doesn´t depend on your sexual orientation that much. It is dependent on how you see animals.
At first, let me thank you for your advice on training young horses. Given my mediocre riding skills, I didn’t even consider breaking my mare without the assistance of an experienced riding instructor. Undoubtedly, I’ve always wanted her to experience her “first time“ with me on her back rather than with somebody else, but I’m realistic enough to understand that there is no viable chance for this to happen. In fact, my mare is quite hard to handle due to her dominant character, which would make it even more complicated for me to successfully train her. She’s got a habit of challenging her handlers to prove worthy of her respect more often and more aggressively than most young horses I happened to come across, but as soon as she accepts you as the leader, it is a true pleasure to work with her. A few weeks ago, for instance, my riding instructor, a young woman who is about my age, was on the verge of giving up because of my mare’s sometimes aggressive behavior towards her. Fortunately, I managed to convince her to keep going on, and by now, everything is working out fine. Thus, taking into account what my mare means to me on an emotional level, I would rather call her a challenging than a difficult horse, which is a more accurate description of her character.
Second, I really appreciate your offer to help me if I ever experience serious problems with my mare. When I discovered this subreddit in November, one of the first things I did was read through your impressive post history of 459 comments simply out of interest for your story. While I dare criticise your way of discussing the more controversial topics as too aggressive most of the time, I got the impression that you made some truly substantial contributions to this forum especially on horse-related subjects. Thus, it means a lot to me how comprehensively you formulated your response to my post and how positive your message is. Thanks for that.
For me riding is something we can do together.
When we do riding or training, then I am definitely in charge. You can't have a "no means no" thing about consent and all that stuff when we are crossing a large intersection. The light is green/red, I say we go/stop and there is no discussion on such things during that. Everything else is dangerous. So don't try to bring that zooish I don't want to hurt her into riding, because she'll test what she can do without you using the crop. She wants to learn where these limits are, too. - Although that sounds like an excuse.
It's good that you got professional help. Don't worry. It's harder to fuck up than you think. Worst thing is the horse escapes and lives the rest of her life munching grass in some hidden valley. So don't think you can mess up her life every ten minutes.
On the other hand, that we 'know' each other better of course puts us closer, which definitely can help with riding. I have seen videos of horses that moved to catch their falling riders back into the saddle to avoid them falling off. If your horse hates you, it will not do such things.
Third: Not really, except that we talk more and are both comfortable with sex things. The "normal" horse people just don't do the sex part of the communication and they don't interact as long. But they can 'talk' the horse language just as well in general.
greetings to Austria. I know the article you speak of.
I definitely agree with you that it is crucial to gain a horse’s trust and respect before even considering riding it. In fact, I understand perfectly well what you mean by “She wants to learn where these limits are“ – living in a herd with other young horses, my mare constantly tries to improve her social status and accordingly, she challenges my position as the "alpha" when I am with her. Interpreting her behavior, I feel that she puts me to the test: Am I a trustworthy leader or does she have to put herself in charge of what we do?
yeah, exactly.
Here's a simple tip.
Do not listen to script kiddies when they abuse the zoo label by telling you how to live your own life. This is real life and it doesn't follow scripts. Never limit yourself based on the limitations and requirements of others.
Anybody can tune into an animals behavior and language. Animals can also tune into yours. You do not have to be an expert equestrian or a genius or any kind of animal whisperer. That is the product of magical thinking.
It's the closeness to the animal that allows for understanding, not the label zoophilia by itself. Anybody can be close to an animal, however zoophiles will get closer in ways that other people refuse to. Refusing to interact to understand and go further is no excuse for claiming wrongness of another person's understanding who has gone further to earn that knowledge.
In that case, a zoophile wouldn't understand an animal no more than a regular animal lover if the zoophile is not willing to take the steps further to understand what regular animal lovers do not. In the same, an unwilling person might not even understand their own human behavior by the magical belief that knowingness was granted according to some label given to them (or paid for) by society.
Interaction with the animal is more important than belief of and view of the animal. Unless we are speaking intuitively, intuition is a whole different story.
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Just a quick question...what magazine have you found this article in? St. Georg? Cavallo?
As a professional rider, I remember that we´re being taught about "sodomites", as they were called in Germany in the 80s. We were taught about preventing fencehopping and we also had a small discussion in our class about "horseowners with too much love for their horse", too. Much to my surprise, the general approach of my fellow riding instructor apprentices was to only intervene when the horse shows signs of distress , emotional and physical pain and/or is abused as a sex toy. I also remember reading a quite neutral article in the monthly magazine for pro riders, issued by the FN. This article also was rather "friendly" towards us zoophiles and given the fact that this magazine is only available when you´re a professional rider (Instructor, breeder, tournament rider), the neutral stance it promoted gave me goosebumps while reading it.
Unfortunately, I don’t recall where exactly I found this article and I doubt that it is still available online. To be honest, I’m not so keen on reading it a second time, for I’m convinced that doing so in the light of all the experience I have gathered during the last years would certainly spoil my positive memories. Back then, it was somewhat inspirational to me, for it gave me an impression of how living with an equine partner might be like. Unlike G. Willard’s Horseman, the image it drew was one of a mentally sane, well educated and socially integrated man who has a sexual relationship with his mare rather than of somebody who keeps a pony mare in his backyard and is obsessed with the idea of marrying her, which, at least to me, is the epitome of antropomorphisation.
Maybe u/zoo_away can give you further information on the article
Too much storytelling of professionalism, expert horsemanship and tech/engineering. I'm very skeptical as the result of all the fart sniffing, circle jerking and "cheesy" fantasy-like claims. Too flowery to be genuine.
My intuition tells me this is a very small world of the same technocratic "high and mighty" gang that down-votes anybody who doesn't adhere to the unreal perfectionism. I could suspect them wearing scarfs in summer and overdressing for the occasion.
Reminds me of the Hardy Brothers. Anybody have a clue?? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lcHy8xEt2QI
Whoever asked for the article (why is the comment gone, oh well) - when he said German and IT engineer, it clicked. I just tried to unearth the piece, both with the fragments I remember on google, as well as in different places that gathered news on zoophilia.
Sadly, I couldn't find it again. It's vanished in some archives where even the search engines don't reach.
It was a reporter and a zoo driving out to the stable and he basically showed his horse. A bit of brushing and cuddling, descriptions of surroundings, mentioning that the guy works in IT or programming. He says he sees her every day, and they are happy. The whole thing was neutral, the remainder of the guy's life was standard issue like car, job etc. Like "ok, it's weird but maybe these two are happy and your reporter just feels weird about it". It concluded with the guy saying "and yes, sex with her is a delight" (well, in German).