Can any US citizen confirm this?? Animal welfare goes down the drain under Turmp administration (youtube.com)
submitted 2017-02-10 02:06:17 by 30-30 amator equae
30-30 amator equae 1 point on 2017-02-10 02:10:17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzWppkh4JJY

Can anybody confirm or debunk this? Hug your animal. Resist.

[deleted] -2 points on 2017-02-10 02:16:31

He has only been in office for fourteen days so not everything is inked out or finalized yet. Keep in mind that there are a lot of alarmists out there looking for anything to crucify the new president for. The United States has a lot more problems that need addressing before animal welfare, and it's likely the case that no clear plan has been outlined yet for animal welfare, and thus people are jumping to conclusions and making assumptions. This has been the case with a lot of items related to President Trump, but the vast majority of Reddit seems to arbitrarily hate him and won't tell you this or admit they do this. Right now his biggest concerns seem to be trying to improve our economy, work on a better system for legal immigration and mend fences with Russia. Whether or not he will succeed depends upon how hard the political establishment fights him on it, as he is certainly a political outsider. Right now they are fighting tooth and nail, but my hope is that they can eventually reach some sort of compromise, as a major focus of his victory speech spoke to mending the divide in this nation and working across party lines. Right now he and his new administration are not being given the chance to even try.

30-30 amator equae 5 points on 2017-02-10 03:20:55

What a lame excuse...even Dubja was more professional than trump and his administration. And what lame excuses you try to apply is even more terrifying. If there are other, more pressing problems than animal welfare laws, why is this administration wasting time with deregulating the friggin´ safety standards for animal food, then?

"...a major focus of his victory speech spoke to mending the divide...". Woah! Where´s the dimensional portal that gratend you access to this reality? ´Cause you obviously must come from an alternative one...probably from the galaxy of "opposite day"....;)

[deleted] 2 points on 2017-02-10 03:23:06

Go back and listen to the speech he gave after he won on election night or are you afflicted with the disease the rest of the left is that only allows you to hear what you want to hear?

Edit: here, go ahead and watch it, instead of being insistent that I am wrong.

https://youtu.be/Qsvy10D5rtc

ursusem 1 point on 2017-02-10 07:06:26

How is Germany the Doormat Country enjoying its rapefugees? Oh, sorry, I mean refugees ;)

30-30 amator equae 6 points on 2017-02-10 08:00:27

I think we get along with our refugees better than the US with their gun totin´ nuts, school shooters, racists, white supremacists etc...

By the way, not a single refugee within a 200 kilometer radius around my home raped anyone since the Syria crisis, but I´m sure you´ll blame it on the biased media, right? If facts don´t back you up, just assume something, pull it out of your ass , correct? There are far more non muslim rapists in our country than muslim rapists, but i assume that doesn´t matter...

At least, we´re not electing a pussy grabber for president...;) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZc8tBtIDhI

ursusem 1 point on 2017-02-11 05:53:20

What Donald Trump was saying about women IN A PRIVATE CONVERSATION is true about women. Women will do anything to get with a famous man. It is all consensual. Remember I am also a woman. I'm not some dude who thinks he knows women. And there isn't anything wrong with that. This is all so ridiculous. The media is painting him out to be all these things that they have no actual proof that he is those things. Social justice warriors of today go by the idea that if you are a white race male then you are just automatically racist and misogynistic. Maybe to some extent they are right about that but the way that they treat people is despicable. What's so bad about pussy grabbing when in the right situation with the right individual? It is a playful kind of thing, you know. What really is a concern to me is a man telling me how to dress, not being able to leave the house without a male accompanying me. Not being allowed to drive a car?! My testimony being worth half that of a man's in court. Being somebody's property rather than a human. My fear is TRUE misogyny and TRUE rape culture. Trump is politically incorrect and that is a good thing!!!

Shastadog90 25/F/Bisexual Dog Lover 1 point on 2017-02-18 02:43:32

Yeah a politically incorrect fool who wants to destroy the endangered species act. No more bears, no more wolves, no more foxes, no more Bobcats, no more predators. All because some people like to kill for fun.

Swibblestein 4 points on 2017-02-10 08:55:25

I apologize to the very concept of basic human dignity that I ever defended you.

30-30 amator equae 2 points on 2017-02-10 13:05:59

Well, don´t feel sorry for that. Not everyone knows how to read statistics right and only sees what he/she wants to see, regardless of many other factors included, but not fitting into the reader´s expectations. Maybe ursusm needs some clarification on how mislead she is...but the cure is only a click away...and the article was written long before the refugee "crisis"

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

PS: Here´s some additional food for thought

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P8ILFWlBzA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IcoHMACke0

AmoreBestia Pro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 2 points on 2017-02-10 23:31:32

Coming from the person that said just recently "This community has a real big problem with its members being disrespectful towards other members", this swift 180 we're seeing here is astounding. Your 'Freudian slip' is both uninformed and needlessly derogating entire populations, the likes of which I until now expected this community to be immune to, due to the adversity it has faced over the years.

This is classified as hate speech, but I'll be treating this as a disrespect offense. Please be more mindful in the future and research these kinds of claims before making them.

ursusem 1 point on 2017-02-11 05:29:17

I was responding to a slap with a slap. I'm not a perfect person.

Shastadog90 25/F/Bisexual Dog Lover 1 point on 2017-02-18 02:41:12

No shit Sherlock

OS2Oslov Deer Zoo (non-active) 2 points on 2017-02-12 07:41:45

Your 'Freudian slip' is both uninformed and needlessly derogating entire populations, the likes of which I until now expected this community to be immune to, due to the adversity it has faced over the years.

You'd wish, but I've seen some shit from certain individuals in this community, not necessarily the poster above, but still.

The poster above did have the whole anti-homosexuality thing a bit back though, IIRC, which struck me as really strange.

AmoreBestia Pro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 2 points on 2017-02-12 17:56:13

The poster above did have the whole anti-homosexuality thing a bit back though, IIRC, which struck me as really strange.

I reviewed that, and it seems that she has a "live and let live" philosophy on it, but like how anthroposexuals generally can't fathom attraction to nonhuman animals, she can't fathom attraction to the same sex. She seems to draw alot of ire simply from the way she articulates things.

ZooMasil 1 point on 2017-02-13 19:09:20

top kek

doghumper 4 points on 2017-02-10 05:20:47

maybe you should stop defending president Bannon in a zoophile sub and just fuck off back to the_donald, thanks.

OS2Oslov Deer Zoo (non-active) 2 points on 2017-02-10 06:56:19

I still can't believe that man is an advisor to the president. He is for all intents and purposes, a neo-nazi.

[deleted] 3 points on 2017-02-10 12:16:50

I didn't defend anyone, I gave a logical stance. What the hell is your problem?

duskwuff 4 points on 2017-02-10 17:00:22

Go away and quit sea lioning.

[deleted] 1 point on 2017-02-12 22:59:26

[deleted]

[deleted] 1 point on 2017-02-12 22:57:37

[deleted]

OS2Oslov Deer Zoo (non-active) 3 points on 2017-02-10 06:54:39

He has only been in office for fourteen days so not everything is inked out or finalized yet

Executive orders are pretty final. He's signed a record number and been pretty mute about explaining a good number of them to the general public.

The United States has a lot more problems that need addressing before animal welfare

We were doing it before. What's so urgent that we had to abort this whole hog to get to it? Can you name anything that really benefited from this? Anything?

Honestly, people might give him a chance if he didn't act so batshit insane and unpredictable on a daily basis. There is nothing good that can possibly come of this. Nothing.

Fuck this MAGA (Make America Great Again, for the uninitiated) crap, when did America stop being great and why did I miss the memo? If anything, it's going down the shitter faster than George Bush x2 could've ever dreamed up.

ZooMasil 1 point on 2017-02-13 19:24:30

Actually depending on the executive order they aren't all that final, like we just recently saw with trumps so called "muslim ban" such orders do get legally contested, something you have to realize is that in American politics the powers of the different branches are only loosly defined, the only way the powers can be restricted is by setting a legal precedent, neither party wants to get such a precedent set in restricting executive powers because they're always looking ahead to when their party has control, a rather dangerous game if you ask me. Regardless, Trump can order things but most of those things require funding, something that he can't allocate, It's more complicated than "Trump is gonna order all this shit and then it's gonna happen" it might or might not.

Tl;Dr eh it' s more complicated : /

OS2Oslov Deer Zoo (non-active) 1 point on 2017-02-14 02:30:51

Executive orders are very rarely contested historically, even less so overturned, so no they are not totally final, but historically, they have a strong chance to be so.

ZooMasil 1 point on 2017-02-14 03:07:16

that's only because historically they have not been used to such great effect as in recent times

OS2Oslov Deer Zoo (non-active) 1 point on 2017-02-14 04:10:00

Uh, no. Emancipation proclamation is the textbook counter to this.

There are others of course. Many signifigant actions are carried out via executive orders. It's only when they really push the boundaries of what is defined legally that they get challenged. In this case, Trump's executive order pushed too hard to prioritize Christians for entry, and violated freedom of religion as such.

madethisaccount4zoo Lesbian, Questioning Zoo 1 point on 2017-02-10 04:26:27

Unfortunately, it looks like this is correct.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/02/trump-administration-blacks-out-animal-welfare-information

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2017/02/03/us/politics/ap-us-usda-animal-welfare-records.html?_r=1

https://acis.aphis.edc.usda.gov/ords/f?p=116:1:16338475264918:::::

Trump is hacking and slashing at nearly every government agency like an explorer with a machete in the rainforest. Whether he cuts down vital old growth, or actually trims dangerous overgrowth, is up for debate. But in this case, I don't see any motive for doing this, other than to protect animal abusers.

30-30 amator equae 1 point on 2017-02-10 04:48:53

Fuck, that´s bad.

WarCanine Love knows no boundaries between species or gender 1 point on 2017-02-10 06:54:01

maintaining the privacy rights of individuals

Implying they deserve that in the first place.


Man, I don't know even know what to say.
He's fucking shit up like expected.

AmoreBestia Pro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 3 points on 2017-02-10 07:15:24

Bannon's also planning to nuke lots of conservation programs and protections for endangered species. So, it's not just going to be pets affected, but yeah, it's true.

tencendur_ Neeeigh 2 points on 2017-02-10 13:04:15

Honestly, if anybody was trusting a government animal welfare program to work indefinitely, I have a bridge to sell to him. Same with animal welfare laws or any variant thereof.

I have already posted it in this sub, but for what I have seen, any big animal welfare organization ends up turning into a resource hungry mess manned by people who does not care very much about the animals, and that turns into a monster whose only goal is to feed itself and sustain its own existence. This is common at many other non-profits for that matter.

The government is just a big organization that reserves the rights to do a certain set of things. One of those things might be starting animal welfare programs or enacting animal welfare laws. Then, what I wrote above applies.

Small ad hoc organizations that are constituted with small goals in mind work wonders, on the other hand. Near here, three friends constituted a small non-profit in order to take care of six neglected horses. You could say that a small organization that takes care of only six horses does not make a difference. However, for those six horses, it does make a difference.

I think that complaining because some big organization or government stopped doing something you want to be done is lazy. People who enforce government measures that might or might not be effective think they are making a difference. People who adopt or take care of animals are making a difference.

30-30 amator equae 2 points on 2017-02-10 15:41:30

Surely you´re partially right with your criticism, but there are incidents you cannot handle as a private person or a group of people. What if the owner of the neglected horses won´t hand them over voluntarily? You´ll need government, police...anyone with power to seize the animals. In the last public stables I attended, there was an old guy, probably around 60. He owned two horses, one of them, a white gelding was cancerous , obviously had stomach or colon cancer, almost no teeth left in his mouth and was unable to eat. He had constant diarrhea and all the grain of his muesli also came out completely undigested. Also, he was arthritic on all four legs and had to constantly lean against the wall of his box to ease the pain. His owner already had "history"...I still remember the drama when his last horse, which he replaced with a promising young mare, died...or should i say, miserably died. This horse collapsed right in front of his box and the owner refused to call a vet, saying " Just leave him alone, he´ll be okay for sure." ...well, in all of my years as a professional rider, I never, NEVER heard a horse literally screaming of pain...it was terrible, nightmare invoking. But the owner had to be forced by me to accept calling a vet. The first vet arrived and after a short diagnosis, he took me aside and said that it´s hopeless and this horse should be freed from suffering as quick as possible. When I told this to the owner, he denied euthanasia harshly for over an hour...and all of that with the constant soundtrack of an equine horror movie playing in the back. After this hour, the vet left ´cause he had other apoointments, the owner still refused to do anything. I called a second vet, the one I had for my mare. When this vet arrived, the owner also tried to evade the sad but obvious...but my vet insisted to do euthanasia as it was the only thing that could be done for this horse. My vet approached the owner directly and said "I won´t leave until this horse is freed from his suffering!" It took another ten minutes for both of us to "convince" the owner....the "soundtrack of horror" still playing along... I literally had to pull the owner off, screaming at him he should accept his responsibility and the inevitable, almost taking him into a chokehold so the vet was able to do the necessary. When the horrible noises finally ceased, I couldn´t hardly contain myself, the impulse to kick the owner´s ass was overwhelming in me....

Honestly, how do you solve such a terrible situation without any authority? All the other horseowners had tried their luck convincing this guy to do the right thing, but failed. And that only was "problem #1"...the poor white gelding, remember? Until I quitted my job, he still was standing in his dark box 24 hours a day, poorly taken care of, inappropriately fed with grain instead of mash...and in this case, even my vet and the official vet couldn´t do a thing. What if you run into such "owners" who are too greedy to buy appropriate food for their horses because it costs a bit more than the cheapest available? By the way, it took only half a year after the purchase of his promising mare until she developed issues with her legs because that jerk wasn´t riding her but used his longe to make her trot and gallop around him in an approximately 5 meter diameter around him while he was standing there, making phone calls. If you do this on a daily basis, the bones in the front leg fetlocks are literally grinded into flour like consistency...and the longer he had her, then worse her legs got.

Your criticism of authorities is partially legit, but how can you deal with such terrible horseowners? I don´t believe the solution is to diminuish the possibility to interfere, I believe the government isn´t doing ENOUGH instead. I tried my best to protect the horses from their apparently inept owner, but even the official vet (Amtstierarzt) couldn´t do a thing if an animal isn´t in a state comparable to the poor horse the owner refused to redeem from the pain.

As a private person, you can´t do a thing and are condemned to tolerate (in the literal meaning of the word)/endure this, forced to turn a blind eye. It still makes me incredibly angry to just talk/write about this. And that wasn´t even the worst I experienced. I agree that interference should not be possible on a random basis, but you´ll need authorities, laws etc. in certain cases. When I was an apprentice, my instructor got a phone call. Several terribly neglected horses had to be seized from a totally incompetent owner and it took a local animal welfare organisation we contacted and the police for the asshole to hand over his horses. I´ve seen quite a lot of horrible injuries in horses, broken legs, wide gaping wounds and such, but these horses ....have you ever seen a horse leg that is just a hoof and raw meat before? There are certain occasions in which authorities are needed more than a bunch of people. If the neglected animals aren´t handed over voluntarily, you´re screwed without authorities...and the poor animals are double screwed.

G_Shepherd fluffy wuffy 2 points on 2017-02-11 01:28:25

those stories are horrifying (and not the only ones I've heard), and in most cases it takes a lot to get a cruel case convicted.

I just get the feeling with government that they make laws "for the good of all" except they don't do good in practice because legislators have A. no (field) experience B. are in for the money C. listen to the wrong people. I don't feel like I would need to give examples as I'm sure we all here can think of some.

Indeed I do agree we need more protection and intervention rights, and instead of taking that power to a slow, huge legislation of bureaucracy, give the power to the vets. They know when they see abuse.

All these laws are full of hot air, and don't change anything. Look at the laws on animal treatment, it's a book on its own, and still abuse happens and people are unable to do something about it. Laws are made because theoretically they are sound, however, what sounds great in the offices, doesn't always work in the field.

This angers me most, the slow, not caring bureaucracy, the filing of this, that and whatnot and in the end the animal suffers, and its owner gets away.

So in short: vet sees abuse, tells what is -going to happen- he is the authority on it, if he calls in abuse, the animal gets taken right away, if needed by police force. Then if you want to debate that "its not abuse" go to court and fight the accusation there. This then should be a matter of state versus owner (not the vets' responsibility) It would improve a lot in favor of the animal. We as human beings have the ability to reason and have a discussion about it.

tencendur_ Neeeigh 1 point on 2017-02-12 11:52:55

Giving discretionary powers to an individual or collective to take something that matters to you and then requiring you to prove that the taking was not right is very dangerous for multiple reasons. It looks to me like a yet another source for corruption or blackmailing.

I also don't trust seizure to be a very effective animal welfare measure since I have seen or heard about many cases in which seized animals were actually placed in worse conditions. Imagine that the police seizes a herd of cows and then forgets to secure a food supply for months. It is worse when the animals were healthy and happy and where seized because some bureaucratic or criminal issue, like a tax or paperwork problem.

G_Shepherd fluffy wuffy 1 point on 2017-02-21 19:16:18

That's the frustrating part really, there's always cases that go wrong in one way or another. I don't think dog pounds or the like are any improvement myself. But I was in this case talking about serious abuse, not bureaucratic issues that don't affect animals' wellbeing.

I hope it makes sense

tencendur_ Neeeigh 1 point on 2017-02-21 20:57:15

You make sense. However, it is still very dangerous.

Some animal welfare associations want to establish minimum conditions for ownership that would penalize many cattle owners whose cattle is perfectly fine. And they have political representation. Opening the doors to government intervention opens the doors for this sort of people to deny you a horse license because there is no electrical power supply in the barn. They would take away your freedom to decide that an electrical power supply in a barn is too dangerous to have and that you don't want it there.

The electrical supply line is a very obvious case of over-interference, but I think that it applies to many other grayer areas, such as feeding regulations and so on. Meanwhile, the same animal welfare brigade that tells you how to take care your animals is usually teaming up with political parties that take away the tools needed to act as a responsible owner, like the components required for having a decent first aid kit.

So well, forgive me if I don't trust welfare enforcers very much. Never forget that the animal wellbeing brigade are the people who would take your animals because you post in this subreddit.