A Novel Discussion (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2017-02-13 04:03:47 by Baaxten Canines, equines, cetaceans

I'm currently writing a work of fiction focusing on a boy and his horse and the bond they share as they grow up together in a fantasy world. I'm hesitant to describe it any further lest it be published, but I will say that, unlike other universes, this fantasy land has no magic or supernatural elements and is more or less a retelling of history in a fictional world. So don't worry, there's no telepathy.

It's already at 62,743 words and I'm just about to wrap up the first act, and by the end I'm hoping to have the main character question whether his love for his horse is/was something more. So while I was thinking about what I could have the two do that makes him think their relationship is/was borderline romantic, I thought I might ask you for suggestions too.

And before you raise concerns about how well book would be received if it included a challenge to the modern world's notions of love, this relationship is but a small part of a larger story, including war, political turmoil and cultural conflict. So edgy.

At the same time, if you don't mind me asking, if you were to write a book about zoosexuality, be it fiction, non-fiction, educational even, what exactly would it be about? If it was a story, who would be your characters and what would be your beginning, middle, climax and end? That is, if you feel you're creative type.

Kynophile Dog lover 3 points on 2017-02-13 05:27:04

Here's what I'd do: I'm active in a local community theater which occasionally produces new works. So my best option would be to write a play catering to their audience, with a zoosexual character. They do a bunch of murder mystery comedies and farces (though they also do dramas and classics), and I have an idea for a farce that would be pretty funny. Here's how I picture the synopsis, as it might appear in a catalog.

Eva's new boyfriend Tom seems to have it all: he's got a steady job, and a great sense of humor, and even volunteers at the dog pound. But Eva has a rival for his affections: his dog, Zeus! When Tom tells her his big secret, it makes her question everything. Throw in a passionate vegan activist, a sheriff who'll do anything to be reelected, and an older couple that's seen everything, and the fur will fly between a woman, a man, and Man's Best Friend... With Benefits.

madethisaccount4zoo Lesbian, Questioning Zoo 1 point on 2017-02-15 04:49:42

I would watch the hell out of this!

SunTzuSaidThat 3 points on 2017-02-13 06:30:58

Regarding your call for suggestions, honestly I think tasteful subtlety is the prescription here.

If you want to convey the sense that a very close horse-rider pair is borderline romantic, I think you should put their relationship in context with everything else that they've come across. A sense of "we've done this all together, you've done so much for me, and I wouldn't trust anyone more than you" goes a long way. Especially if you show that, in many ways, he trusts and feels better about his horse more than everyone else. If you want to make it subtle but slightly more explicit, put him in his horse companion's shoes...have the protagonist muse about what she/he has felt, what the adventure has been like for him/her, maybe what he/she thinks about the protagonist. The protag could even wonder what it would be like to be a horse, whether his companion would act the same or feel differently about him if he were. You want a real sense of closeness and empathy...something above and beyond other examples in the narrative. I think readers who get invested will pretty readily fill in the blanks.

In terms of physical things...have them exchange breath and both be really into it at some point, if you want something that you can push the boundaries with. Mutual grooming when they have time to themselves, if you want to keep it more subtle. Have them keep watch for each other when just a twosome out in the wilderness and have them rest together when other horses or trustworthy humans are around. Demonstrate that they are a two-horse herd, inseparable.

Assuming you want the boy to be a non-zoo coming into zoo-like feelings for a non-human partner, that's how I'd probably try and approach it. I think that kind of stuff is really positive, tasteful, and accessible to non-zoo folks.

tencendur_ Neeeigh 2 points on 2017-02-13 14:37:51

I would not publish a book in this age, zoo or not zoo, because the supply of books is virtually unlimited. Therefore, books are unlimitedly cheap. Even if you don't care about the money, chances are that most people would not care about your book the least. I think it is important to say these things upfront because every new author in the block thinks that their book is going to be the awesome new thing that will grab at least some attention, but publishing is usually a total waste of time and money. Writing because you like writing is great, though.

Now that you have your warning, let's proceed.

If you want to include an implicit zoophile relationship, the best way is to show a contrast between the relationship of the main human character and the main animal character and the rest of the human/animal relationships in he book. Show that other humans that have horses and care about them don't have the special spark in their relationship. Show that when the main human character deals with other horses, the spark is lacking. There are many small details you can use to show that the main cast does things that no other does, such as sharing breath, mutually grooming, playing certain stupid game and so on.

Be warned that even if you do it right, it is very likely to still be interpreted just as a special non-romantic relationship by many readers, unless you turn it into a very explicit display.

TokenHorseGuy 3 points on 2017-02-14 03:18:58

I agree with tasteful/indirect references, and let the reader read into it (or not) what they may. Mutual grooming is a pretty identifiable activity for most people, and is intimate but not INTIMATE.

As an added bonus, horses are a great (and sometimes almost too obvious) embodiment of symbolism of some sort, so you could bring a little or a lot of that into the story.

Ambiguous dialog about close friends or relationship partners could be exchanged, or any number of the other ways to skirt the topic which have been discussed here.

I've considered writing some historic or pseudo-historical dystopian type fiction which involves the topic, but unfortunately my day job manages to drain most of my creative energy (and spare time) so at least for now I need to leave the creative advice to the creative people! Other than to say, don't overdo it, and be sure it fits comfortably into the mix of other themes... which I assume it will if you're up to 62,000+ words.

Baaxten Canines, equines, cetaceans 2 points on 2017-02-14 03:30:52

Subtlety goes without saying. What I'm really after is any kind of activity or interaction that can strengthen their bond without taking it into the explicit area.

Also, what kind of symbolism are we talking about? And have you figured out anything about the plot beyond takes place in a "pseudo-historical dystopian" setting? Just out of curiosity, of course.

TokenHorseGuy 2 points on 2017-02-18 15:37:00

Well, maybe it goes without saying to some people. ;)

Just throwing the symbolism idea out there, but there are the cliche ones of power, freedom, nature itself, tradition, nobility, maybe even some less flattering ones like aloofness, or a reflection of some aspect of the main character himself, either that he is trying to "tame" or come to terms with, and/or learns through the maturing of his relationship. Maybe that is partly where you are already going with it.

I have figured out a great deal of the plot and the themes and social commentary I want to hit on, a couple of entanglements to keep people engaged... but haven't really developed it to figure out the pace, who gets affected by which part of the conflict and when, the characters' backgrounds, etc. I'd rather not get too detailed since I'm hoping to move forward with it eventually. I don't read as much as I used to so that could be either good or bad. Anyway, I feel pretty good about it.

madethisaccount4zoo Lesbian, Questioning Zoo 3 points on 2017-02-15 05:03:32

Here's what I would do.

I would develop the relationship between the protagonist and his horse slowly. Start off with the normal "boy and his horse" journey--the first encounter, learning to ride, spending time together, etc. Typical stuff, but good stuff, that leads the reader to understand that they have a strong bond.

Next, contrast the boy's relationship with his horse with everything else in his life. Have him struggle with human romance--as in, his relationships are unexciting or lackluster to him, but he isn't sure why--or have him completely disinterested in it, to the chagrin of others. Show that, while he has other friends/family, his horse is whom he turns to for comfort and spends the vast majority of his time. Show also that when the boy interacts with other animals, even other horses, the depth--the trust, compassion, interest, etc.--isn't there.

Then, as the boy and the horse go through their fantasy adventure, trials, etc. show a few moments where although the boy doesn't outright think it/say it, the audience is led to question, "Just how much does he love his horse?" Things like mutual grooming, where touches are heavily described, as well as affection, come to mind. Cuddling and doing a typical "romantic" activity would work too. Maybe the two of them cuddle up on a cold night out in the field and look up at the stars? Stuff that can definitely be platonic, but gets the reader thinking. But don't call attention to it in the narrative or in the boy's thoughts immediately.

Sprinkle some more of these kind of moments until the end, where the boy then has either another "love interest" (human) try to win his heart, or is presented with a situation where he might have to leave his horse for a better life (say, giving up his adventuring to become a warrior/ruler/scholar/whatever and give up his horse). Then, as the boy is contemplating it, he can finally question out loud (to the readers), either through thoughts/narrative, if there's something more to his relationship. If, maybe, "true love" has been right in front of him all along.

I would end it with a subtle answer. Maybe the last scene could be him leading his horse out of the stable to ride off into the sunset. Or just him going to see the horse. Something that doesn't say explicitly "He's in love with this horse," but something that any discerning reader would recognize.

As for what kind of story I would write, I would write some kind of fantasy/adventure story, either taking place in the Old West or medieval times. I would have a girl as the protagonist instead of a boy, and a mare rather than a stallion. ;) The two of them would be on a journey to find some artifact/spell/medicine to save the girl's village/family, fighting monsters, brigands, and the elements along the way. There would be a few other well-developed human characters--maybe a saintly knight who helps them, or a wise Cowboy in the Old West, etc., along the way--but the main focus would be on the girl and her horse. At the end, the girl succeeds in saving the day because of her bravery/wisdom/whatnot and is offered the chance to live among the nobility/join up with Jesse James/be rich/whatever works for the story, but chooses to remain and travel with her mare instead.

I hope this helped! Good luck with your story!

Baaxten Canines, equines, cetaceans 3 points on 2017-02-16 04:43:44

While I agree with making his relationship with his horse feel unique, both to him and to the reader, I disagree with stunting his relationship with other humans, because then that perpetuates the belief that zoos only get with other animals because it's convenient - that we choose dogs or horses or whatnot because we can't have or handle a stable relationship with another human being.

Without giving explicit details, the main character has lived most of his life in a rural setting and has spent most of his time around his parents and their horses. His relationship with his mother turned sour after an argument over how well he should treat a newborn foal, later becoming almost abusive, but they've since mended their bond when that same horse came to his defence. Despite this, and his limited contact with other humans besides his parents, he doesn't hate women. He is socially awkward and impulsive, to be sure, but naturally diplomatic and lacks no conviction. To the best of my literary knowledge - and I don't mean to brag - this is a very well written and very believable character, and anyone who has read it agrees.

As for why the mother is the abusive one, I chose her just to shake things up; we always associate kindness and love with the mother while strength is a more 'manly' virtue.

madethisaccount4zoo Lesbian, Questioning Zoo 3 points on 2017-02-16 05:23:54

I disagree with stunting his relationship with other humans, because then that perpetuates the belief that zoos only get with other animals because it's convenient - that we choose dogs or horses or whatnot because we can't have or handle a stable relationship with another human being.

Sorry, I didn't mean to convey it this way. What I meant moreso was show that, while the protagonist can get along with other folks just fine, he doesn't feel the spark towards women. Or men. If he has a relationship, it falls apart, not because he's messed up or because the girl/guy lost interest, but because he does. Almost hinting at asexuality, rather than being zoo, except for the fact that his relationship with his horse is very powerful.

To the best of my literary knowledge - and I don't mean to brag - this is a very well written and very believable character, and anyone who has read it agrees.

His character sounds solid. From what you've written, he has a believable backstory and some acceptable flaws/strengths. Not too strong, not too weak.

As for why the mother is the abusive one, I chose her just to shake things up; we always associate kindness and love with the mother while strength is a more 'manly' virtue.

Good choice. I like it when expectations are subverted in literature.

TokenHorseGuy 4 points on 2017-02-18 15:44:21

If he has a relationship, it falls apart, not because he's messed up or because the girl/guy lost interest, but because he does.

I was just about to say the same thing Baaxten did, above, as far as the relationship aspect. Not that it's my choice, but I would rather see someone who has completely healthy human relationships, turns to those relationships for the right reasons when it is appropriate to do so, and beyond this sees something admirable in animals. Usually the real-life stereotype is something like honesty, loyalty, attractiveness, etc., although of course the trick is to highlight this without implicitly contrasting it with humans. I agree it is important to break the stereotype that people only turn to animals when human relationships (romantic or otherwise) fail, or more to the point, implying the person doesn't know how to make them work, so gives up.

madethisaccount4zoo Lesbian, Questioning Zoo 2 points on 2017-02-18 23:28:26

That makes sense.

SmallzBallz 2 points on 2017-02-16 06:00:57

I love the idea of a subtle zoo relationship in a book. I'd read the shit out of what you've described so far. Please keep us posted, or feel free to PM me.

As for building the relationship:

  • The protagonist being put into bondage (slavery not kinky), forced to hard labor, and developing a high level of sympathy for animals like horses could work.

  • If the protagonist was (or became through events in the story) untrusting of other humans he would seek further companionship in his horse thus bringing them closer together.

  • The main character could get used to sleeping with his horse on the road, and choose to do so even when it's not necessary and there are better accommodations.

  • The horse warning or protecting the the boy from an unexpected danger.

  • Grooming, as others have said, is a good one.

And demonstrating the relationship in the story:

  • The two may become jealous of one another's affections. The boy might be angry (even if he isn't aware he is, or understand why) with someone for being too familiar/friendly with his horse, and the horse might try butt in between the protagonist and other characters he is becoming close with.

  • Showcasing that the main character's interactions with other animals, while good, is not as deep as with his own horse.

  • I think having other characters picking up on the bond that the protagonist is blind to would also be a good way to show that it is out of the norm.

If I were to write something of a zoophilia nature it would probably be subtle at first then slowly grow more overt and pronounced as the main character struggled with and ultimately came to terms with his feelings. Though a bit further removed from reality than yours. Probably featuring an intelligent, but still animal, fantasy or alien creature.