submitted 2017-02-23 02:19:29 by YearningmiceZoophile
YearningmiceZoophile 2 points on 2017-02-23 02:22:05
I thought this might be interesting to many of you.
My current pup is the only unneutered dog I've owned. I'm now struggling to decide if pyro is enough of a reason for a late spay or to keep her intact. Health wise I feel she's doing better for keeping her hormones.
Battlecropscat kisser extraordinaire 1 point on 2017-02-23 07:57:55
You could try to find a vet who performs ovary saving spay, keeping her hormone production but removing the uterus and thus pyro risk.
YearningmiceZoophile 1 point on 2017-02-23 11:33:52
Yeah, I have a referral to a local surgery clinic. My vet says they are the only ones likely to know the procedure around here. The other half of the question is what are the chances of something going wrong with the surgery compared to only a chance pyro may ever be an issue. It's a balancing act and I don't see a clear path.
electricfoxx 4 points on 2017-02-23 03:18:01
I think there are some obvious reasons why a "normal" person would de-gender their pets:
No humping
Females don't go into heat. ("Ew, blood, gross.")
People are lazy or have to work. (Who is around their pet 24/7 to make sure they aren't having sex.)
Sexuality in pets is unnecessary according to "normal" people.
If you argument with someone, they'll just say, "Well, science says I should neuter my dog."
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 5 points on 2017-02-23 12:55:30
And it's funny that all these things can be avoided with proper training and proper materials.
It really shows how the majority of people doesn't deserve to take care of animals.
''Welp, I'm tired of walking my dog. Better cut off their legs cuz I'm lazy!''
IAmAZoophile 2 points on 2017-02-23 05:21:58
Huh, interesting. I wonder if this is for real, or if having an intact pet is just positively correlated with taking better care of the dog for the owners surveyed.
YearningmiceZoophile 1 point on 2017-02-23 11:36:23
Good point. I'd say in such a large sample size the likelihood of the results being so overwhelming just based on the idea "Non-neuter people take better care of their pets" to not fit, though. There are actually a lot of good reasons to neuter for professional breeders, as one example.
But yeah, a form of self-selection could be a problem here.
YearningmiceZoophile 1 point on 2017-02-23 13:11:46
Further to this, since we usually neuter in North America insanely early, how much of this is people accepting things in a puppy they cannot in an adult dog? So maybe that lends some credence to your hypothesis since good dog owners know consistancy, even in puppyhood, is key.
KynophileDog lover 3 points on 2017-02-23 11:38:03
TL;DR: after a detailed questionnaire on the behavior of thousands of spayed/neutered vs unaltered dogs in two separate studies, spayed/neutered dogs tend to be more aggressive, fearful, and excitable, although they do mark less.
Sheppsoldier 1 point on 2017-02-23 15:12:26
The lack of sexual desire "deviates" the animal to form habits, addictions, and mental illnesses.
They are not looking for mates and sex, so they are looking for threats, food, non-sexual attention(love) and sleep. All of which can become dangerous or irritating addictions.
KynophileDog lover 3 points on 2017-02-23 17:22:45
To be fair, so can sex under the right circumstances. But a healthy sex drive is better than none, for too many reasons to list here.
Sheppsoldier 1 point on 2017-02-26 05:16:45
Well of course. Some animals are possessive "sex hoarders" that want all the sex for themselves and will kill anything thats assumed to take their hoardings. The same goes for many human beings.
I bet I could list all the reasons but people don't really like when I list everything. Do I care? Not really but I'm tired and don't feel like doing it right now.
Maybe later.
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 2 points on 2017-02-23 19:11:31
cons: crippling developmental issues that affect doggy for life
pros: you get a slightly more convenient dog.
It makes me sick that this is allowed to happen. hopefully someday this will be identified as the animal abuse that it is.
KynophileDog lover 1 point on 2017-02-23 22:56:41
Ditto for docking tails and cropping ears for their appearance.
Sheppsoldier 1 point on 2017-02-23 12:45:24
Yes. They become "easy" to control and take advantage of.
That's why there's plenty of people who are obsessively looking for excuses to do the same to human beings.
They feel as if human sexuality (zoosexuality included) are unessential, gross, deviant and an inconvenience.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 5 points on 2017-02-23 12:53:16
Well honestly, if we do it to animals we should do it to humans too.
YearningmiceZoophile 1 point on 2017-02-23 13:09:07
Volunteering are you /u/WarCanine?
But no/u/sheppsoldier, the article said that the animals became MORE aggressive and less easy to control with the exception of territorial marking.
Sheppsoldier 0 points on 2017-02-23 15:02:14
That could be for a number of reasons. For one, the absence of genitals also means an absence of sex drive, leaving the animal with no sexual desires to distract them from other aggressive tendencies.
Since sexual aggression is completely normal of sexual desire, the lack of sexual desires may create a type of uncontrollable schizophrenic aggression that can appear for no reason, or amplify existing aggressions. It is basically a hormonal "disorder" because the natural hormone production was altered by removal of the genitals.
As you said, it would actually be worse than if the genitals were left in tact.
Another reason is due to the age at which the animal was altered. Younger animals grow to be docile and void of intuition or instinct. Older animals are more likely to become aggressive and uncontrollable because they already "grew into" having the genitals and hormones in the first place. Removing the genitals is no different than removing a lung or other important organ. The brain realizes that something is wrong or missing and mental illnesses appear, like an "error message".
A third reason is due to a lack of training or neglect from a young age. Sure, removing the genitals is nice and convenient for people who dont want to do the work or think about the sex. That's just lazy. Those people who enjoy the convenience are less likely to train their animal or give the animal the attention it needs because that too is inconvenient. Those people will either hire a trainer or neglect the animal completely. However, the neglect will result in an unsocialized animal with no real meaning or purpose to its life.
The fact that people would even consider removing the genitals of another human being is grounds to say those people intend to use human alterations for abusive purposes.
One, to create violent psychopaths to unleash on society.
Two, to create easy "gay" pushover slaves for sexual abuse or other purposes.
Three, as a matter of convenience for lazy, stupid, selfish people who think sex is too difficult, icky, disgusting, the work of the devil, or just don't know how it works in the first place.
The loss of sexual desire spawns alternative habits. Addiction to food, love(non-sexual attention) - In humans the same along with addition of drugs, alcohol, and other addictive human behaviors such as meaningless and excessive talking.
If people and animals are not having sex then they are forming these other habits, sometimes healthy and sometimes unhealthy or dangerous. This is probably why it is assumed that castration decreases schizophrenic symptoms, when in reality it would only obviously decrease the sexual symptoms while amplifying the others.
Some people castrate themselves and their children under the impression that it will create so called "super humans" with attention devoted to their trade, work or "habit." Essentially modifying them in an attempt to kickstart the training of "savant skills" predominant in some autistic persons. Assumed to be a performance enhancer, sex drive elimination is becoming an abusive standard or social norm manifesting itself as a discrimination of people and animals who keep their sex drive.
The sex drive is usually discriminated against for a few reasons.
One, people are sexually aroused by sex drive or gender shaming (typically sadistic)
Two, people who have no sex drive compensate their empty feelings by discriminating against those people who do have a sex drive. (Mental illness)
Three, some people want to abuse the sex drive for themselves so they discriminate against it when the drive is aimed elsewhere.
Four, the sex drive is reserved for only those deemed worthy of reproduction.
Five, the sex drive is viewed as the means of production, and any unproductive use of the sex drive is considered abuse.
Three four and five are examples of how the sex drive is viewed by the perverted forms of socialism, communism, feminism, misogyny and even perversions of capitalism. The perverted institutions of sexism, racism, religious fervor and even nationalism are the typical contributing factors that would "normalize" abuse by genital mutilation.
YearningmiceZoophile 2 points on 2017-02-23 17:33:09
I'm confused why you are trying to explain these unsupported things to us, many of which I have already considered and many of which need more research.
I just pointed out your first statement "They become "easy" to control", which by the way you just contradicted, was not what the article put forth.
Sheppsoldier 1 point on 2017-02-23 21:14:09
Might seem contradictory but it is not. That's because it can go both ways depending on other factors which creates the "probability" that neutering and spaying would be beneficial, harmful or unnecessary.
Everything else was just my opinion on why I dislike neutering and spaying. Here in the USA it empowers the wrong people to do bad things to human beings for bad reasons.
substallionלשלוט בי, הסוס שלי 1 point on 2017-02-24 03:42:49
Interesting read, thanks! It's cool to see that it mentions castrated dogs are less trainable than intact ones; that's a position that I've always held, in private and public. An intact animal having their sexual needs met is a chill and happy individual :)
Zeta_WolfWolf trapped in a human body 5 points on 2017-02-24 13:56:07
A lot of the responses to this complicated question (WHETHER to get specifically a dog altered.....which is basically what this thread has become) sound like they could have come from partisan politicos we see these days in the US. I have to say that there is a defense to BOTH choices........depending of course on what type of relationship you intend to have with a dog. AND don't mistake that sentence as a bias for a SEXUAL relationship with a dog as being the only determining factor.
For neutering a dog, the pros and cons are well known to those who think (and research) a bit deeper than the veterinary and societal mantra espoused. HEALTH (in the case of veterinary.....and which also obviously has a monetary component which shapes that); and PET OVERPOPULATION (in the case of pretty much ALL rescues and shelters and adoption agencies.....and which is VASTLY overstated if you take the time to look at raw facts and numbers about how many ADOPTABLE dogs are actually euthanized). I will neither get into a long dissertation regarding that last, nor will I go through the list of pros and cons since that information is easy to find for those who care to think about this issue with more than a "gut" or "knee-jerk" attitude.
My point is, that zoos shouldn't automatically have the attitude that ALL neutering is bad, and as I read here at one point, ABUSE. Really? There are MANY people who harbor dogs who should NOT have an intact one. They don't have the ability to keep that dog home and safe from the dangers that would befall him/her when out "roaming" looking for a mate. They neither understand the risk of health issues, nor do they have the resources to deal with them if they arise (mainly for an un-spayed bitch--Pyometra). It is easy to say, "Well, then they shouldn't have a dog." Maybe true. But they WILL have a dog whether anyone here thinks that it is a good idea or not. If that home is an otherwise good one, then I, as a ZOOPHILE who has had intact and neutered dogs, see no good reason to say that THAT home should be denigrated just because they choose get their dog neutered! And further more, in many cases when I was asked for input by a behavior client faced with that decision, I would advise them to do so. But I would also advise them to wait until a dog passed their first birthday before doing so.
Personally, I have never gotten a dog altered unless forced to by health issues. I am capable of keeping a bitch in season controlled. I am glad that there is more and more information for those faced with the decision to absorb.......ESPECIALLY from the CON side of altering a dog and ESPECIALLY early neutering being implicated in orthopedic and neoplastic issues.
One more thing. It seems to be a common opinion here that neutering a dog will render them sexually barren. What? In my L-O-N-G stretch of years, that certainly has not been what I have seen in every case :) My relationship (even the sexual part) never suffered with my mates after I HAD to spay them, and only a couple of times have I seen it diminish (sexual desire) in other bitches that I have known. I don't have first hand experience with males, but I have seen a neutered male mate with a bitch who was in season. I also have a friend who has a perfectly good (so he says) sexual relationship with his male neutered husky.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 0 points on 2017-02-25 08:56:29
PET OVERPOPULATION (in the case of pretty much ALL rescues and shelters and adoption agencies.....and which is VASTLY overstated if you take the time to look at raw facts and numbers about how many ADOPTABLE dogs are actually euthanized
And this is all because of irresponsible owners who cannot choose the alternative or can't keep an eye on their animals.
In that case they don't deserve an animal.
Who are you going to blame when an animal gets hit by a car? The owner for not giving the animal self-controlled robot legs by cutting the real legs of first?
and as I read here at one point, ABUSE. Really?
Abuse seems a bit big of a word, but they are being used for the fact that the owner is a dumb shit.
Animal cruelty seems like a better word though. Because it is.
There are MANY people who harbor dogs who should NOT have an intact one.
How do you NOT realize that these people don't deserve to take care of an animal?
They need to do a horrible thing in order to be a good responsible owner?
That makes NO sense.
"Well, I'll just remove my dog's teeth because he bites other people. Better than training him and now he can never bite anyone again! I'll give him food he can still eat!"
Really the signs of a responsible owner, no?
But they WILL have a dog whether anyone here thinks that it is a good idea or not.
What's your point?
Animal rapists WILL also have a dog whether anyone thinks that it's a good idea or not.
I guess we should just suck that up, huh?
But I would also advise them to wait until a dog passed their first birthday before doing so.
Ah yes, because it truly matters when you break your animal or not.
It's so fucking ridiculous, they aren't even sexually mature until the age of two.
And look what we do to their genitals.
People are fucked up man...
Personally, I have never gotten a dog altered unless forced to by health issues. I am capable of keeping a bitch in season controlled.
Oh hey look! You can do it but why can't others?
Oh WAIT! I can.
I could even do that before I was 16.
Why. Can't. Others?
Spaying or neutering must only be done if it HAS to be done, and that should be a very strict law everywhere.
I might as well remove other body parts because they increase diseases according to these owners...
One more thing. It seems to be a common opinion here that neutering a dog will render them sexually barren. What? In my L-O-N-G stretch of years, that certainly has not been what I have seen in every case :) My relationship (even the sexual part) never suffered with my mates after I HAD to spay them, and only a couple of times have I seen it diminish (sexual desire) in other bitches that I have known. I don't have first hand experience with males, but I have seen a neutered male mate with a bitch who was in season. I also have a friend who has a perfectly good (so he says) sexual relationship with his male neutered husky.
I've never seen anyone say that.
Unless you're talking about the people who say animals are less sexual, because that's just true.
Bitches not in heat aren't interested at all.
But still, I don't see why somebody gives a shit...
Zeta_WolfWolf trapped in a human body 2 points on 2017-02-25 15:53:24
I'm not going to be as "fancy" as you going point by point in response. I will say that about 15 years ago I gave up trying to argue points where I have made MY position and opinion clear. ESPECIALLY when it anonymously on the internet......which is why I mostly just lurk these days to at least stay in touch with the community :)
I believe that you read my response without really READING it because you have your mind set. Here is my general point {again}:
People WILL have a dog......yes even the incompetent ones as far as a sexually intact one. What are YOU going to do to stop them? Your comparison to a rapist getting a dog is an entirely different issue and you SEEM intelligent enough to understand the "straw man" nature of that comparison. And anyway, isn't the mantra from zoos that "sex is such a small part of a relationship"? Well, then if a home is good otherwise, then why so vilify that as a good place for a neutered dog? I mean seeing as they are "dumb shits".....in your oh so eloquent terminology. If they provide a home to a dog who otherwise {maybe} would be homeless, why is that not the lesser of two evils even to an obviously militant anti-neuter?
I see both side and render judgments on a situational basis when it comes to most things. Stop "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime"! I know that you consider it abusive to remove "the genitals" (when of course it is the GONADS which are removed and not the genitals). But wouldn't you rather have a dog get a home and get neutered than to not get a home at all? Or be in a home of "dumb shits" and get bred with no homes for the puppies? Or be sexually intact in a home where the owners do not understand or respond to a pyometra? Or how about an intact {especially males} living an entire life unfulfilled sexually?
I'm sorry to burst your bubble (I am quite certain I have ridden in this rodeo a tad longer than you have), but there will NEVER be a time when there are enough good and "sexuality wise" homes to have all dogs stay intact.......and stay safe and well taken care of. And before you point to other countries OR the way it used to be in the US, let me remind you that the mortality rate for dogs is a lot lower now and here in the US due to accidental death. All of that said, I will restate that PERSONALLY I choose to keep my own dogs intact. Of course I am a zoo and so one might say that I have a "vested interest", although your one statement about a spayed bitch not being interested in sex is one my departed (a rescue who was spayed EARLY.....but not by me) Black Lab would take great exception too winkwink~ And as I said, when I was running competition obedience classes, I rarely evangelized one way or the other. But when I ran pet classes and I was asked for my advice, most of the time I said to wait until after the first season or a year in the case of a male, and then neuter because I KNEW that no matter what my personal feelings were, that person (or family) just would never be able to control........let alone meet the sexual needs of.......an intact dog.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 0 points on 2017-02-25 16:53:01
People WILL have a dog......yes even the incompetent ones as far as a sexually intact one. What are YOU going to do to stop them? Your comparison to a rapist getting a dog is an entirely different issue and you SEEM intelligent enough to understand the "straw man" nature of that comparison.
And can you realize the similarity between them?
Both are going to get a dog either way and both are irresponsible owners.
Would you rather have the dog raped and have a home, or would you rather let the dog suffer and die because they don't have a home?
And anyway, isn't the mantra from zoos that "sex is such a small part of a relationship"?
It is? I don't consider sex a part of anything, just a bonus if you actually want it but it's not important.
It's important that the dog enjoys a big healthy life where they don't need to be fiddled with.
A dog needs to keep being a dog and shouldn't be made into a chimera because dumbshits have access to a dog.
Another reason why people need some kind of test first to get an animal.
If they provide a home to a dog who otherwise {maybe} would be homeless, why is that not the lesser of two evils even to an obviously militant anti-neuter?
Do I have to bring up the rapist argument again?
And even then, I didn't say it was worse than not getting a home at all.
It still is an action that should not be allowed and should be frowned upon.
I know that you consider it abusive to remove "the genitals" (when of course it is the GONADS which are removed and not the genitals). But wouldn't you rather have a dog get a home and get neutered than to not get a home at all?
You know what I mean. Do I have to type it perrrrrrfectly so you can understand it or what?
No, a home is indeed better for them.
I guess that also counts for these other people that abuse their pets and do cruel things to them.
Or how about an intact {especially males} living an entire life unfulfilled sexually?
Sex is unnecessary for any creature to be healthy and happy so why even care about that?
The thing is that you aren't appreciating the fact that a creature has a sexual desire.
Don't get a dog if you don't like that behavior.
''Well I don't like dogs because they have eyes that look ugly so I'll remove them.''
I am quite certain I have ridden in this rodeo a tad longer than you have.
Damn, you have an attitude.
Not surprising you don't speak much.
but there will NEVER be a time when there are enough good and "sexuality wise" homes to have all dogs stay intact.......and stay safe and well taken care of.
Yeah, and there should be a change.
And spaying/neutering isn't an option.
It at least should be a temporary option.
You know there's WAY better alternatives right?
And there should be more.
We can't just think that this is always the solution because it's harmful to animals and they can't give consent to it.
There needs to be an alternative non-harmful option so that spaying and neutering is no longer needed.
But when I ran pet classes and I was asked for my advice, most of the time I said to wait until after the first season or a year in the case of a male, and then neuter because I KNEW that no matter what my personal feelings were, that person (or family) just would never be able to control........let alone meet the sexual needs of.......an intact dog.
Any contact with an underage creature's genitals is wrong.
It doesn't matter if a family can't take care of that dog, you should have done something about it.
They shouldn't have received the dog until he hit the age of 2 and then get neutered.
Well, at least there's one big upside: At least there's some animals like mine who never have to suffer because of this.
May I think myself for not being extremely dumb.
So, society, when are we spaying and neutering you?
This world is overpopulated with humans, so let's start with any dumb country in West Europe.
Zeta_WolfWolf trapped in a human body 2 points on 2017-02-26 04:55:58
Would you rather have the dog raped and have a home, or would you rather let the dog suffer and die because they don't have a home?
I guess you didn't take the hint where I tried to let you save face a bit by calling out your strawman argument. Oh well. Now I'll just come out and say that that comparing a dog who gets neutered BUT whom at least gets a good home, and a dog who is a rape victim.....and yet has a home....is just idiotic. What is worse is that I think you know it.
Sex is unnecessary for any creature to be healthy and happy so why even care about that?
The thing is that you aren't appreciating the fact that a creature has a sexual desire.
Don't get a dog if you don't like that behavior.
''Well I don't like dogs because they have eyes that look ugly so I'll remove them.''
First, speak for yourself about sex being unnecessary. And especially don't speak for dogs who don't have any "hang ups" like you apparently do about sex. I DON"T have appreciation for a dog's sexual desire? You are contradicting yourself. YOU just said that "sex is unnecessary". In fact, I would think it would be a rare male dog who would be happy, hunky-dory with forced celibacy as you seem to think would be OK and better then having him neutered if that would get him an otherwise good, but non-sexual life.
Second, there you go with that strawman argument again. Why is it all or nothing with you? Remove the eyes because one doesn't like them......LOL That is almost so stupid a comparison that it is funny.
You said, "Damn, you have an attitude" When I pointed out what I am sure is a fact that I have been around a long long time and have the experience to have seen a LOT.......not to mention an open mind in order to have LEARNED a lot. But anyway, ain't that the pot talking about the kettle......at BEST? And to be sure, at least I am not the one using the foul language and acting insulting and so militant and "no quarter" here. Yeah. It's no wonder that I don't say much.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 1 point on 2017-02-26 08:54:31
I guess you didn't take the hint where I tried to let you save face a bit by calling out your strawman argument. Oh well. Now I'll just come out and say that that comparing a dog who gets neutered BUT whom at least gets a good home, and a dog who is a rape victim.....and yet has a home....is just idiotic. What is worse is that I think you know it.
"Good home"
No. They can't keep dogs from fucking eachother. How can you be a good owner and not have control of your animal?
Also, your attitude is showing again.
"I think you know it."
First, speak for yourself about sex being unnecessary. And especially don't speak for dogs who don't have any "hang ups" like you apparently do about sex. I DON"T have appreciation for a dog's sexual desire? You are contradicting yourself. YOU just said that "sex is unnecessary". In fact, I would think it would be a rare male dog who would be happy, hunky-dory with forced celibacy as you seem to think would be OK and better then having him neutered if that would get him an otherwise good, but non-sexual life.
I'm contradicting myself? How?
Sex has always been unnecessary for me, or rather, us.
It's true until we talk about reproduction... But wait! Spaying and neutering is done to prevent pet overpopulation for irresponsible owners. And this world is even more overpopulated with humans too. Oh, I guess I'm right then.
Sex is not necessary to one's health and happiness and sex also corrupts the mind.
What I was saying was is that I appreciate their sexual behavior because it is a part of their behavior.
But with spaying and neutering they mostly lose this desire.
And no your anecdotes aren't evidence that they still are.
Not to mention the other behavioral changes and the fact of fiddling with their genitals like it's a piece of meat.
People don't appreciate the canid body and it's disgusting.
And sexual desire isn't like hunger. It goes away eventually and it's useless.
You said, "Damn, you have an attitude" When I pointed out what I am sure is a fact that I have been around a long long time and have the experience to have seen a LOT.......not to mention an open mind in order to have LEARNED a lot.
Yeah, that's a big ego you have there.
But it doesn't matter who you are, you can still be wrong.
I'm not going to believe someone because they were 100% right with every thing they said up until now.
There's no gauranteed victory just because you're some 'kool kid' or something.
Zeta_WolfWolf trapped in a human body 1 point on 2017-02-27 13:37:37
Look. You and I obviously have different ideas about this subject. But I wish you'd stop being so hyperbolic in voicing your objections. Stop being so militant! THAT is one of the huge reasons why people hate us (zoos) so much. And before you even START on that, I agree that there a LOT of other reasons which are closer to the surface........OK?
If this was a perfect world, all of the dogs in it would live free of "the chains of oppression of humans" to autonomously pursue their goals and dreams. Hell, to frolic all day chasing butterflies without the interference of us at all. Free to make all of their own choices. And really, I am only being PARTIALLY sarcastic here. Humans should be neutered?? HA! If you ever met me in person, it would be quite the contest between you and I to see who was more "down" and jaded about the fellows of their own species! I mean that too. But unlike you, I live in the REALITY of the world. I know that people WILL have a dog, and even if they are completely ignorant of how to deal with a sexually intact one, I think it is better to get that dog neutered and have a good home. And NO, a "rapist" giving a dog a home is NOT a valid comparison! And NO, a person who hates to walk a dog giving a dog a home but cutting off the legs is NOT a valid comparison! Personally, I rather have all dogs' bodies remain as nature intended. I think it is important to leave body metabolism.......including hormonal balance......the way nature intended. In fact, it has broken my heart........many times.......when I have had to get one of my lifemates spayed in the interest of protecting their health. And NOT because I was anticipating a loss of the sexual part of our relationship (as I have explained, I have seen very little decrease in that......and in a few instances I have actually experienced an INCREASE in desire on the part of my girls). You accuse me of having an "ego" and an "attitude". That may come across as being true......NOW. After the insulting and vulgar language filled........TIRADE.......that you launched in reply to my original response to the OP here. But that was just me being snarky. See, those with less experience and decades of life in the "school of hard knocks" under their collar, AND who live in an idealistic, but unrealistic world often times mistake that EXPERIENCE as ego and attitude. If it makes you feel better, you are neither the first, nor will you be the last. THAT is why I don't say much.......not because I might offend someone LOL.
You say "sex is unnecessary"? And it "corrupts the mind"? Holy god man, speak for yourself LOL :) I could link about a thousand medical/psychological papers and journals which would contradict you there. I may be a bit more passionate than most (or am I maybe just one of the few here that will ADMIT that while sex is not the only thing.........it IS a BIG thing?). But I can tell you that my girls would be highly P.O.'d at me if I took your attitude about that subject ;) And I don't guess you get around many male dogs do you? Sex IS good for all mammals physiological as well as psychological well being.
Now, whether you take offense how I respond to you after your "sermon"/"tirade" to me on this subject or not, the fact remains that I was making a living evaluating, modifying the behavior of, and placing difficult to place dogs probably before you were born. Not to mention that I have worked (granted, it was long ago) as a vet tech and grew up on a large farm with a plethora of animals......not only of the canine variety. BUT.......yes I CAN "still be wrong". Everyone can. I still "get it wrong" with dogs sometimes, but I try to be even minded and learn everyday that I am around them. And I'm not asking that you "believe me". Hell, I told you early on that I try not to argue points on the internet any longer since I know what I know (or.....GASP.....I wouldn't say it <==and that is a TRUE STATEMENT). I KNOW that I will rarely if ever convince anyone else of what I have learned and seen and KNOW, because on the internet EVERYONE is an anonymous expert. Oops. Here I am though, responding AGAIN to you. You must be special, so at least there's that :)
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 1 point on 2017-02-27 19:39:52
Humans should be neutered?
Yes.
This world is overpopulated with humans.
A lot of accidental pregnancy happens, just like for animals.
And not to mention we don't need more humans and humans only harm more and more.
Thousands of people are suffering, just like those "poor kitties and doggies."
Also, if we do stuff to animals we should do it to humans too.
What makes you think animals should be treated less?
But unlike you, I live in the REALITY of the world.
Ah yes, I totally live on another planet which is almost identical. Oh wait a sec, it's your ego thinking you're the one living in reality.
Sure sure, and I'm the king of my country.
And NO, a person who hates to walk a dog giving a dog a home but cutting off the legs is NOT a valid comparison.
-Irresponsible, lazy selfish owners.
-Changes their behavior.
-The animals don't have a choice.
-Parts of the body are removed.
-Owners have less trouble taking care of the animals.
Personally, I rather have all dogs' bodies remain as nature intended. I think it is important to leave body metabolism.......including hormonal balance......the way nature intended. In fact, it has broken my heart........many times.......when I have had to get one of my lifemates spayed in the interest of protecting their health.
Good to see you still have a heart and maybe even a brain.
Brings tears to my eyes!
And NOT because I was anticipating a loss of the sexual part of our relationship (as I have explained, I have seen very little decrease in that......and in a few instances I have actually experienced an INCREASE in desire on the part of my girls).
What you have seen and haven't doesn't decide what's true or not.
One of your bitches sexual desire didn't increase because of being spayed.
It's because she got older.
If so, you have found a 1 in 10000+. Congratulations.
It is true that spayed bitches have less interest in sex.
They don't go trough heat and no heat means less desire for sex.
See, those with less experience and decades of life in the "school of hard knocks" under their collar, AND who live in an idealistic, but unrealistic world often times mistake that EXPERIENCE as ego and attitude.
Yeah sure. Where did you get that information from? The Bible?
Here your ego is showing again, thinking I'm mistaking your 'experience' as ego.
Now damn, that's a fine example of what I meant.
It's very ironic that you say that you live in reality if you say this.
You say "sex is unnecessary"? And it "corrupts the mind"?
It is unnecessary for happiness, heatlh and survival.
It may have an upside bonus for heatlh but that's just it.
There's no reason to sympathize with any creature wanting to have sex. So scrap that off the 'Why we spay and neuter' list.
It's nothing but lust.
And lust corrupts. You want more and more. But you shouldn't give more because you'll go crazy if you don't get more the next time.
What's life about these days? Sex, money and power?
Oh yes, even in my ideal utopia it goes like that. Even I am one of those disgusting humans.
And tell me, have you ever heard of Aluzky?
Look at the damn guy. He can't keep his dick out of any dog he sees.
Wait, any human would take the opportunity to have sex...
It corrupts everyone's minds...
One of the reasons bestiality is illegal because of those who have corrupted minds because of sex...
The animal rapists, the people who train animals for sex, fencehoppers, the desperate horny teens who fuck animals...
And I don't guess you get around many male dogs do you?
I did, actually.
We've had a male dog since I was small.
He ran away once and hasn't impregnated any bitches, all he did was search for my family.
And also the dogs I used to visit.
I definitely hung around them quite a lot.
Sooo... What's your point?
the fact remains that I was making a living evaluating, modifying the behavior of, and placing difficult to place dogs probably before you were born.
You don't even know how old I am.
I could be 10, 20, 50, 80...
Your ego is showing again.
Even if you're older than me, it doesn't mean you're better.
It's a sad excuse to think that you are right.
Why don't you just talk to me without that excuse? Because ironically, that's childish.
Just like how you use smileys, caps and thousands of dots............................................
I'm starting to think you're the younger one here.
Not to mention that I have worked (granted, it was long ago) as a vet tech and grew up on a large farm with a plethora of animals......not only of the canine variety.
There's also other people who have the exact same stories and have different opinions than yours.
I don't even get your point. Does it mean you're right or something?
Because then I could ask other 'experts' if bestiality is wrong. What do they say? Of course!
I guess I should believe these highly trained professionals then.
yes I CAN "still be wrong". Everyone can. I still "get it wrong" with dogs sometimes, but I try to be even minded and learn everyday that I am around them.
Thanks captain, that was very clear since the beginning.
And it still doesn't mean you're right even if you try to be open minded and what not as possible.
And I'm not asking that you "believe me". Hell, I told you early on that I try not to argue points on the internet any longer since I know what I know (or.....GASP.....I wouldn't say it <==and that is a TRUE STATEMENT). I KNOW that I will rarely if ever convince anyone else of what I have learned and seen and KNOW, because on the internet EVERYONE is an anonymous expert.
Well, I'm an exception because I can still be proven wrong and I'm willing to change my mind if people do so by staying rational and making sense.
Here I am though, responding AGAIN to you. You must be special, so at least there's that :).
I am special though!
I always seem to catch the attention of people online very well.
Zeta_WolfWolf trapped in a human body 1 point on 2017-02-27 21:50:23
{sex} It's nothing but lust.
And lust corrupts. You want more and more. But you shouldn't give more because you'll go crazy if you don't get more the next time.
You really ARE broken. Sorry about that, but sex for me is a way that I get closer to those whom I love. So.....once again, speak for yourself.
And tell me, have you ever heard of Aluzky?
Look at the damn guy. He can't keep his dick out of any dog he sees.
I have heard of him. AND have had some pointless and ultimately frivolous arguments with him.......hmmmm, kinda like this one with you. The ironic thing is that I never got that impression from him (that he puts his dick in every dog he sees). I know he did (or does) "fence-hop". I know that I believe that he really loves his Lab.
I did, actually.
We've had a male dog since I was small.
He ran away once and hasn't impregnated any bitches, all he did was search for my family.
And also the dogs I used to visit.
I definitely hung around them quite a lot.
Sooo... What's your point?
My my. You have significant reading comprehension impairment, don't you? You actually PROVED my point and stated it unawares. You don't have experience being around male dogs. I don't even want to state a number here for me (both owned and "visited" as in evaluated before rescue placement.......boarded.......as clients with behavior issues and ect.) because it would be high to the point of sounding ridiculous (not to mention that the ONLY thing that you'd actually comprehend after reading it would be that I am trumpeting my "ego" again.....which you would then point out to me), but I have been around a LOT of them. And it is an observable FACT that it is exceedingly rare for a male intact dog to do much else in their "free time" except be on the lookout for sex if it is possible to obtain.
You don't even know how old I am.
I could be 10, 20, 50, 80...
Your ego is showing again.
Even if you're older than me, it doesn't mean you're better.
It's a sad excuse to think that you are right.
Why don't you just talk to me without that excuse? Because ironically, that's childish.
Just like how you use smileys, caps and thousands of dots............................................
I'm starting to think you're the younger one here.
Oops. There's that pesky lack of reading comprehension again. Did you forget one of my first statements to you? You know, the one about lurking here? I know that it is annoying, but I have a great sense of how old you are. About 20 at most. Remember, I have been reading your posts for some time. AND that pesky experience again too. You have a writing style that shows you haven't had time yet to learn how to argue a point without a lot of vulgar and abusive language.........unless you are nothing but a troll of course. And I'd hate to think that. Trolls DO act and write a lot like you, but at this point I will give you the benefit of the doubt and choose to believe that you truly do believe in the stance you have taken.
I don't even get your point. Does it mean you're right or something?
Because then I could ask other 'experts' if bestiality is wrong. What do they say? Of course!
I guess I should believe these highly trained professionals then.
It is pretty funny that you should say something like that. Once again your age.....or more properly your lack of experience is showing. Because "experts" you cite who would argue that bestiality is wrong would (and DO) use the abusive stories wherever they find them (and sadly they are not difficult to find given how the media focuses on them) in order to "prove" their point. They'd be hyperbolic and use strawman arguments......not to mention insulting and spew abusive language to "prove their point" with anyone who disagreed with it. Of course they'd ignore benign bestiality, and FOR SURE they'd ignore a loving zoophilic relationship because that would undermine their "all or nothing" militant stance. Oh wait. That sounds just like a certain WarCanine that I know :)
Well, I'm an exception because I can still be proven wrong and I'm willing to change my mind if people do so by staying rational and making sense.
DARN! There is that pesky "lurking" thing I do again which lets me know you are lying about that statement, or at least are deluded about yourself. You are all nicety.....as long as someone agrees with you. And then no holds barred lash out if they do not. And I want to tell you that if your first response to me had been EVEN MINDED like I strive to be, we'd have agreed to disagree by now at WORST, and maybe we'd even have found some common ground. And please note--not even open minded which is what you thought that I said and you actually STATED after reading the phrase "even minded" written by me. Once more, PLEASE, if you are going to so vehemently argue a point, you've GOT TO brush up on your reading comprehension my friend.
I am special though!
I always seem to catch the attention of people online very well.
Yeah, I get that. Just like a troll is/does. But I KNOW that you are not trolling me, right?
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 1 point on 2017-02-27 22:49:38
You really ARE broken. Sorry about that, but sex for me is a way that I get closer to those whom I love. So.....once again, speak for yourself.
Ah yes, I'm broken because I don't think the same as you.
'Boohoo erryun is broken cuz they donrtagree with my errpinions.'
Ah yes, sex brings you closer to your love.
Now let's look at what your brain actually thinks: "I'm hungry for sex and want to fuck for my own good!"
I have heard of him. AND have had some pointless and ultimately frivolous arguments with him.......hmmmm, kinda like this one with you.
Funny, I felt exactly the same.
Keeps saying what he says are facts...
Thinks he's better because experience/IQ...
Is almost convinced I'm a troll...
The list goes on!
Got quite some things in common huh?
The ironic thing is that I never got that impression from him (that he puts his dick in every dog he sees). I know he did (or does) "fence-hop". I know that I believe that he really loves his Lab.
In the beginning I didn't have that feeling either, until the disgusting pedo-loving fencehopping spastic admitted it.
I know I'm not exactly the guy who thinks that sex really involves love to begin with, I don't believe he truly loves his dog or dogs.
He's the perfect example of a bad zoo. The horny guy who can't keep his dick out of his pants. Not to mention he pimps his own dogs to others...
You actually PROVED my point and stated it unawares. You don't have experience being around male dogs. I don't even want to state a number here for me (both owned and "visited" as in evaluated before rescue placement.......boarded.......as clients with behavior issues and ect.) because it would be high to the point of sounding ridiculous (not to mention that the ONLY thing that you'd actually comprehend after reading it would be that I am trumpeting my "ego" again.....which you would then point out to me), but I have been around a LOT of them. And it is an observable FACT that it is exceedingly rare for a male intact dog to do much else in their "free time" except be on the lookout for sex if it is possible to obtain.
Oh so you've seen more dogs than me? What the fuck is your point?
About 20 at most.
Yeah, no.
Even if you were right, it doesn't mean anything.
You know what my mom said? That I also have a lack of experience and don't have the right to decide if bestiality is wrong or not.
The same woman who captures birds to put in tiny cages, claims to be a pro because she has worked as some kind of vet assistant and has many animals.
Man, that bird isn't alive anymore.
It doesn't matter how old you are and what you did and who you are.
If you use age, experience, anything along the lines of that as an excuse for anything, you are just trying to make a sad escape plan.
You have a writing style that shows you haven't had time yet to learn how to argue a point without a lot of vulgar and abusive language.........unless you are nothing but a troll of course.
Wrong and wrong.
This is just how I communicate and how I am.
Sorry that you can't accept me using baddie words.
I guess all those adults using the same kind of lamguage are all kids in disguise!
Trolls DO act and write a lot like you, but at this point I will give you the benefit of the doubt and choose to believe that you truly do believe in the stance you have taken.
I know you're trying to offend me by calling me a troll as if most things I say are ridiculous.
'och it hrtz u ofnded me' There's your attention you wanted.
Because "experts" you cite who would argue that bestiality is wrong would (and DO) use the abusive stories wherever they find them (and sadly they are not difficult to find given how the media focuses on them) in order to "prove" their point. They'd be hyperbolic and use strawman arguments......not to mention insulting and spew abusive language to "prove their point" with anyone who disagreed with it. Of course they'd ignore benign bestiality, and FOR SURE they'd ignore a loving zoophilic relationship
Oh yes, of course they're right about everything they say.
EXCEPT when it's about bestiality.
A but strange and unusual you think? Nonono, this is not a coincidence.
This means either:
Bestiality really is wrong, because experts say so.
Or:
They're wrong about bestiality being wrong, because being an 'expert' doesn't mean shit.
I'm going with the obvious one, 2.
DARN! There is that pesky "lurking" thing I do again which let's me know you are lying about that statement, or at least are deluded about yourself.
DARN! You don't know what I think.
You cannot know what I think. I know this is true because only I can know this of myself.
I have been proven wrong and have also changed my mind on things that I always believed to be different.
Stop pretending that you've seen everything I said.
It's funny that you think after watching something, you suddenly know everything about it.
Hey blimbo, don't just observe, but actually do something else than stay behind safely behind the glass and pretend you learned everything by just watching.
You are all nicety.....as long as someone agrees with you. And then no holds barred lash out if they do not. And I want to tell you that if your first response to me had been EVEN MINDED like I strive to be, we'd have agreed to disagree by now at WORST, and maybe we'd even have found some common ground.
Not really, but okay.
You really got the wrong impression of me.
And please note--not even open minded which is what you thought that I said and you actually STATED after reading the phrase "even minded" written by me. Once more, PLEASE, if you are going to so vehemently argue a point, you've GOT TO brush up on your reading comprehension my friend.
Oh shit, I missed one word?
I've made one tiny mistake because I already can't see shit to begin with?
Ah yes, now I can't read at all!
Yeah, I get that. Just like a troll is/does. But I KNOW that you are not trolling me, right?
Oh nonono.
You're wrong on that.
All this time, these 5ish months, in all those different subs I only have been trolling everyone around me!
Hahaha I got ya all!
Even the people who I helped, I was kidding! Haha, I demolished everyone!
No, just no...
Zeta_WolfWolf trapped in a human body 1 point on 2017-02-28 00:30:41
Reeally? You are not 20 (or younger?) Uh-huh. Well, you get the last word.......as a good often troll does. Yep, I have decided that that is about what you are. Buh-bye.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 1 point on 2017-02-28 09:32:54
As I said, it doesn't matter what my age is.
And there's no need to be surprised as guessing someone's age isn't easy.
Calling me a troll is just unnecessary, you can just say that you don't want to talk anymore.
Unless you're really convinced that I'm a troll.
I don't think a troll would put that much effort to use his Reddit account since months ago.
As for having the last word, that's just a part of arguing...
Zeta_WolfWolf trapped in a human body 1 point on 2017-03-01 15:35:02
Ah yes, I'm broken because I don't think the same as you.
'Boohoo erryun is broken cuz they donrtagree with my errpinions.'
THAT'S talking? No, that an argumentative and petulant troll who is pissed because they are not able to do their normal "smack-down" when they've met someone FAR more intelligent than they are used to. And THAT is why I am done with this.
And BTW--I can EASILY guess your approximate age due to exactly that. Whereas on the other hand, how dare you write something like this:
Ah yes, sex brings you closer to your love.
Now let's look at what your brain actually thinks: "I'm hungry for sex and want to fuck for my own good!"
So, I am not "allowed" to guess your age based on your writing style, use of vocabulary, AND when you are backed against the wall how you fall into petulant and in many cases irrelevant insults? But it's okay for YOU to have the audacity to tell me how I think about and what my motivations are about the most intimate thing that my mate and I do together? THAT is not from you experiencing my writing style or knowing ANYTHING about me. That is straight from YOUR very own "hang-ups" about sex.......likely forged when your mom caught you jerking off and smacked you with a ruler telling you how BAD and NASTY sex is. What is it that you said? Oh yeah....... "sex corrupts the mind."
And you know what? Anyone who reads this conversation.......whether they agree with my viewpoint on neutering or not......will agree with me on that.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender-Mᴬᴰᴬᴿᴬᴼ 1 point on 2017-03-01 15:42:55
"LOL"
What are you, 13?
Look look! I guessed your age!
Just... no.
Btw, you cannot easily guess my age, you even guessed wrong.
You cannot know someone's age just by how they type and act.
I'm sorry that you cannot accept others personalities and are offended by that.
You don't need to make an excuse at all, using someone's age is discrimination.
Very funny coming from a zoo.
whether they agree with my viewpoint or not......will agree with me on that.
That sentence does not make sense.
They will agree with you even if they don't agree with you? Logic please.
That's not true. I can easily say the same.
Hey dude, everybody agrees with me!
Look, now I won! Wow, easy right?
Edit:
THAT is not from you experiencing my writing style or knowing ANYTHING about me. That is straight from YOUR very own "hang-ups" about sex.......likely forged when your mom caught you jerking off and smacked you with a ruler telling you how BAD and NASTY sex is. What is it that you said? Oh yeah....... "sex corrupts the mind."
I love how you say I can't know that from you, yet right after that you make up some fucked up story which you have no evidence of.
Sexual urges are not exactly like hunger, because it goes away anyways and you don't need it to survive.
However, I can know what is going on in peoples and animals minds when they have sexual urges.
It's like saying you don't eat because you're hungry, but because it brings you closer to your love and do it for your love.
You only do it for your own good.
Tell me, why do you not jerk off humans? Why not other animals?
You want to spread joy and love right?
We only really have sex with partners because they usually allow it and they're easily accessible.
But there's of course other people and animals who would fuck anyone in their sight.
Sex indeed corrupts the mind.
Everyone fights for it and would fuck just about any hot 'whatever you're attracted to.'
There's a reason creatures rape and fight for their lives for who gets to fuck.
Even if it brings you closer to your love, it's unnecessary.
Wake up from your illusion.
Edog91 1 point on 2017-02-25 16:20:53
I really don't like the idea of neutering, i think of it as genital mutation
Sheppsoldier 1 point on 2017-02-25 19:11:42
Yup. People are always looking for excuses to mutilate something against its will. It's rather disturbing.
Like a power trip or show a dominance, genital mutilation is the product of self esteem dysfunction. "I took your ability to reproduce, therefore I am dominant over you! Ahahaha!!"
These people act more like the slugs that bite other slugs genitals off for reproductive rights.
WarCanineLove knows no boundaries between species or gender 1 point on 2017-02-28 12:32:36
I'm guessing you mean 'mutilation'?
Because that's sadly true.
Even worse, this article tells us that it's even worse than we think.
More fear and anger? Poor animals...
/r/zoophilia archive
I thought this might be interesting to many of you.
My current pup is the only unneutered dog I've owned. I'm now struggling to decide if pyro is enough of a reason for a late spay or to keep her intact. Health wise I feel she's doing better for keeping her hormones.
You could try to find a vet who performs ovary saving spay, keeping her hormone production but removing the uterus and thus pyro risk.
Yeah, I have a referral to a local surgery clinic. My vet says they are the only ones likely to know the procedure around here. The other half of the question is what are the chances of something going wrong with the surgery compared to only a chance pyro may ever be an issue. It's a balancing act and I don't see a clear path.
I think there are some obvious reasons why a "normal" person would de-gender their pets:
If you argument with someone, they'll just say, "Well, science says I should neuter my dog."
And it's funny that all these things can be avoided with proper training and proper materials.
It really shows how the majority of people doesn't deserve to take care of animals.
''Welp, I'm tired of walking my dog. Better cut off their legs cuz I'm lazy!''
Huh, interesting. I wonder if this is for real, or if having an intact pet is just positively correlated with taking better care of the dog for the owners surveyed.
Good point. I'd say in such a large sample size the likelihood of the results being so overwhelming just based on the idea "Non-neuter people take better care of their pets" to not fit, though. There are actually a lot of good reasons to neuter for professional breeders, as one example.
But yeah, a form of self-selection could be a problem here.
Further to this, since we usually neuter in North America insanely early, how much of this is people accepting things in a puppy they cannot in an adult dog? So maybe that lends some credence to your hypothesis since good dog owners know consistancy, even in puppyhood, is key.
TL;DR: after a detailed questionnaire on the behavior of thousands of spayed/neutered vs unaltered dogs in two separate studies, spayed/neutered dogs tend to be more aggressive, fearful, and excitable, although they do mark less.
The lack of sexual desire "deviates" the animal to form habits, addictions, and mental illnesses.
They are not looking for mates and sex, so they are looking for threats, food, non-sexual attention(love) and sleep. All of which can become dangerous or irritating addictions.
To be fair, so can sex under the right circumstances. But a healthy sex drive is better than none, for too many reasons to list here.
Well of course. Some animals are possessive "sex hoarders" that want all the sex for themselves and will kill anything thats assumed to take their hoardings. The same goes for many human beings.
I bet I could list all the reasons but people don't really like when I list everything. Do I care? Not really but I'm tired and don't feel like doing it right now. Maybe later.
cons: crippling developmental issues that affect doggy for life
pros: you get a slightly more convenient dog.
It makes me sick that this is allowed to happen. hopefully someday this will be identified as the animal abuse that it is.
Ditto for docking tails and cropping ears for their appearance.
Yes. They become "easy" to control and take advantage of.
That's why there's plenty of people who are obsessively looking for excuses to do the same to human beings.
They feel as if human sexuality (zoosexuality included) are unessential, gross, deviant and an inconvenience.
Well honestly, if we do it to animals we should do it to humans too.
Volunteering are you /u/WarCanine?
But no/u/sheppsoldier, the article said that the animals became MORE aggressive and less easy to control with the exception of territorial marking.
That could be for a number of reasons. For one, the absence of genitals also means an absence of sex drive, leaving the animal with no sexual desires to distract them from other aggressive tendencies. Since sexual aggression is completely normal of sexual desire, the lack of sexual desires may create a type of uncontrollable schizophrenic aggression that can appear for no reason, or amplify existing aggressions. It is basically a hormonal "disorder" because the natural hormone production was altered by removal of the genitals. As you said, it would actually be worse than if the genitals were left in tact.
Another reason is due to the age at which the animal was altered. Younger animals grow to be docile and void of intuition or instinct. Older animals are more likely to become aggressive and uncontrollable because they already "grew into" having the genitals and hormones in the first place. Removing the genitals is no different than removing a lung or other important organ. The brain realizes that something is wrong or missing and mental illnesses appear, like an "error message".
A third reason is due to a lack of training or neglect from a young age. Sure, removing the genitals is nice and convenient for people who dont want to do the work or think about the sex. That's just lazy. Those people who enjoy the convenience are less likely to train their animal or give the animal the attention it needs because that too is inconvenient. Those people will either hire a trainer or neglect the animal completely. However, the neglect will result in an unsocialized animal with no real meaning or purpose to its life.
The fact that people would even consider removing the genitals of another human being is grounds to say those people intend to use human alterations for abusive purposes. One, to create violent psychopaths to unleash on society. Two, to create easy "gay" pushover slaves for sexual abuse or other purposes. Three, as a matter of convenience for lazy, stupid, selfish people who think sex is too difficult, icky, disgusting, the work of the devil, or just don't know how it works in the first place.
The loss of sexual desire spawns alternative habits. Addiction to food, love(non-sexual attention) - In humans the same along with addition of drugs, alcohol, and other addictive human behaviors such as meaningless and excessive talking. If people and animals are not having sex then they are forming these other habits, sometimes healthy and sometimes unhealthy or dangerous. This is probably why it is assumed that castration decreases schizophrenic symptoms, when in reality it would only obviously decrease the sexual symptoms while amplifying the others.
Some people castrate themselves and their children under the impression that it will create so called "super humans" with attention devoted to their trade, work or "habit." Essentially modifying them in an attempt to kickstart the training of "savant skills" predominant in some autistic persons. Assumed to be a performance enhancer, sex drive elimination is becoming an abusive standard or social norm manifesting itself as a discrimination of people and animals who keep their sex drive.
The sex drive is usually discriminated against for a few reasons. One, people are sexually aroused by sex drive or gender shaming (typically sadistic) Two, people who have no sex drive compensate their empty feelings by discriminating against those people who do have a sex drive. (Mental illness) Three, some people want to abuse the sex drive for themselves so they discriminate against it when the drive is aimed elsewhere. Four, the sex drive is reserved for only those deemed worthy of reproduction. Five, the sex drive is viewed as the means of production, and any unproductive use of the sex drive is considered abuse.
Three four and five are examples of how the sex drive is viewed by the perverted forms of socialism, communism, feminism, misogyny and even perversions of capitalism. The perverted institutions of sexism, racism, religious fervor and even nationalism are the typical contributing factors that would "normalize" abuse by genital mutilation.
I'm confused why you are trying to explain these unsupported things to us, many of which I have already considered and many of which need more research.
I just pointed out your first statement "They become "easy" to control", which by the way you just contradicted, was not what the article put forth.
Might seem contradictory but it is not. That's because it can go both ways depending on other factors which creates the "probability" that neutering and spaying would be beneficial, harmful or unnecessary.
Everything else was just my opinion on why I dislike neutering and spaying. Here in the USA it empowers the wrong people to do bad things to human beings for bad reasons.
Interesting read, thanks! It's cool to see that it mentions castrated dogs are less trainable than intact ones; that's a position that I've always held, in private and public. An intact animal having their sexual needs met is a chill and happy individual :)
A lot of the responses to this complicated question (WHETHER to get specifically a dog altered.....which is basically what this thread has become) sound like they could have come from partisan politicos we see these days in the US. I have to say that there is a defense to BOTH choices........depending of course on what type of relationship you intend to have with a dog. AND don't mistake that sentence as a bias for a SEXUAL relationship with a dog as being the only determining factor.
For neutering a dog, the pros and cons are well known to those who think (and research) a bit deeper than the veterinary and societal mantra espoused. HEALTH (in the case of veterinary.....and which also obviously has a monetary component which shapes that); and PET OVERPOPULATION (in the case of pretty much ALL rescues and shelters and adoption agencies.....and which is VASTLY overstated if you take the time to look at raw facts and numbers about how many ADOPTABLE dogs are actually euthanized). I will neither get into a long dissertation regarding that last, nor will I go through the list of pros and cons since that information is easy to find for those who care to think about this issue with more than a "gut" or "knee-jerk" attitude.
My point is, that zoos shouldn't automatically have the attitude that ALL neutering is bad, and as I read here at one point, ABUSE. Really? There are MANY people who harbor dogs who should NOT have an intact one. They don't have the ability to keep that dog home and safe from the dangers that would befall him/her when out "roaming" looking for a mate. They neither understand the risk of health issues, nor do they have the resources to deal with them if they arise (mainly for an un-spayed bitch--Pyometra). It is easy to say, "Well, then they shouldn't have a dog." Maybe true. But they WILL have a dog whether anyone here thinks that it is a good idea or not. If that home is an otherwise good one, then I, as a ZOOPHILE who has had intact and neutered dogs, see no good reason to say that THAT home should be denigrated just because they choose get their dog neutered! And further more, in many cases when I was asked for input by a behavior client faced with that decision, I would advise them to do so. But I would also advise them to wait until a dog passed their first birthday before doing so.
Personally, I have never gotten a dog altered unless forced to by health issues. I am capable of keeping a bitch in season controlled. I am glad that there is more and more information for those faced with the decision to absorb.......ESPECIALLY from the CON side of altering a dog and ESPECIALLY early neutering being implicated in orthopedic and neoplastic issues.
One more thing. It seems to be a common opinion here that neutering a dog will render them sexually barren. What? In my L-O-N-G stretch of years, that certainly has not been what I have seen in every case :) My relationship (even the sexual part) never suffered with my mates after I HAD to spay them, and only a couple of times have I seen it diminish (sexual desire) in other bitches that I have known. I don't have first hand experience with males, but I have seen a neutered male mate with a bitch who was in season. I also have a friend who has a perfectly good (so he says) sexual relationship with his male neutered husky.
And this is all because of irresponsible owners who cannot choose the alternative or can't keep an eye on their animals.
In that case they don't deserve an animal.
Who are you going to blame when an animal gets hit by a car? The owner for not giving the animal self-controlled robot legs by cutting the real legs of first?
Abuse seems a bit big of a word, but they are being used for the fact that the owner is a dumb shit.
Animal cruelty seems like a better word though. Because it is.
How do you NOT realize that these people don't deserve to take care of an animal?
They need to do a horrible thing in order to be a good responsible owner?
That makes NO sense.
"Well, I'll just remove my dog's teeth because he bites other people. Better than training him and now he can never bite anyone again! I'll give him food he can still eat!"
Really the signs of a responsible owner, no?
What's your point?
Animal rapists WILL also have a dog whether anyone thinks that it's a good idea or not.
I guess we should just suck that up, huh?
Ah yes, because it truly matters when you break your animal or not.
It's so fucking ridiculous, they aren't even sexually mature until the age of two.
And look what we do to their genitals.
People are fucked up man...
Oh hey look! You can do it but why can't others?
Oh WAIT! I can.
I could even do that before I was 16.
Why. Can't. Others?
Spaying or neutering must only be done if it HAS to be done, and that should be a very strict law everywhere.
I might as well remove other body parts because they increase diseases according to these owners...
I've never seen anyone say that.
Unless you're talking about the people who say animals are less sexual, because that's just true.
Bitches not in heat aren't interested at all.
But still, I don't see why somebody gives a shit...
I'm not going to be as "fancy" as you going point by point in response. I will say that about 15 years ago I gave up trying to argue points where I have made MY position and opinion clear. ESPECIALLY when it anonymously on the internet......which is why I mostly just lurk these days to at least stay in touch with the community :)
I believe that you read my response without really READING it because you have your mind set. Here is my general point {again}:
People WILL have a dog......yes even the incompetent ones as far as a sexually intact one. What are YOU going to do to stop them? Your comparison to a rapist getting a dog is an entirely different issue and you SEEM intelligent enough to understand the "straw man" nature of that comparison. And anyway, isn't the mantra from zoos that "sex is such a small part of a relationship"? Well, then if a home is good otherwise, then why so vilify that as a good place for a neutered dog? I mean seeing as they are "dumb shits".....in your oh so eloquent terminology. If they provide a home to a dog who otherwise {maybe} would be homeless, why is that not the lesser of two evils even to an obviously militant anti-neuter?
I see both side and render judgments on a situational basis when it comes to most things. Stop "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime"! I know that you consider it abusive to remove "the genitals" (when of course it is the GONADS which are removed and not the genitals). But wouldn't you rather have a dog get a home and get neutered than to not get a home at all? Or be in a home of "dumb shits" and get bred with no homes for the puppies? Or be sexually intact in a home where the owners do not understand or respond to a pyometra? Or how about an intact {especially males} living an entire life unfulfilled sexually?
I'm sorry to burst your bubble (I am quite certain I have ridden in this rodeo a tad longer than you have), but there will NEVER be a time when there are enough good and "sexuality wise" homes to have all dogs stay intact.......and stay safe and well taken care of. And before you point to other countries OR the way it used to be in the US, let me remind you that the mortality rate for dogs is a lot lower now and here in the US due to accidental death. All of that said, I will restate that PERSONALLY I choose to keep my own dogs intact. Of course I am a zoo and so one might say that I have a "vested interest", although your one statement about a spayed bitch not being interested in sex is one my departed (a rescue who was spayed EARLY.....but not by me) Black Lab would take great exception too winkwink~ And as I said, when I was running competition obedience classes, I rarely evangelized one way or the other. But when I ran pet classes and I was asked for my advice, most of the time I said to wait until after the first season or a year in the case of a male, and then neuter because I KNEW that no matter what my personal feelings were, that person (or family) just would never be able to control........let alone meet the sexual needs of.......an intact dog.
And can you realize the similarity between them?
Both are going to get a dog either way and both are irresponsible owners.
Would you rather have the dog raped and have a home, or would you rather let the dog suffer and die because they don't have a home?
It is? I don't consider sex a part of anything, just a bonus if you actually want it but it's not important.
It's important that the dog enjoys a big healthy life where they don't need to be fiddled with.
A dog needs to keep being a dog and shouldn't be made into a chimera because dumbshits have access to a dog.
Another reason why people need some kind of test first to get an animal.
Do I have to bring up the rapist argument again?
And even then, I didn't say it was worse than not getting a home at all.
It still is an action that should not be allowed and should be frowned upon.
You know what I mean. Do I have to type it perrrrrrfectly so you can understand it or what?
No, a home is indeed better for them.
I guess that also counts for these other people that abuse their pets and do cruel things to them.
Sex is unnecessary for any creature to be healthy and happy so why even care about that?
The thing is that you aren't appreciating the fact that a creature has a sexual desire.
Don't get a dog if you don't like that behavior.
''Well I don't like dogs because they have eyes that look ugly so I'll remove them.''
Damn, you have an attitude.
Not surprising you don't speak much.
Yeah, and there should be a change.
And spaying/neutering isn't an option.
It at least should be a temporary option.
You know there's WAY better alternatives right?
And there should be more.
We can't just think that this is always the solution because it's harmful to animals and they can't give consent to it.
There needs to be an alternative non-harmful option so that spaying and neutering is no longer needed.
Any contact with an underage creature's genitals is wrong.
It doesn't matter if a family can't take care of that dog, you should have done something about it.
They shouldn't have received the dog until he hit the age of 2 and then get neutered.
Well, at least there's one big upside: At least there's some animals like mine who never have to suffer because of this.
May I think myself for not being extremely dumb.
So, society, when are we spaying and neutering you?
This world is overpopulated with humans, so let's start with any dumb country in West Europe.
I guess you didn't take the hint where I tried to let you save face a bit by calling out your strawman argument. Oh well. Now I'll just come out and say that that comparing a dog who gets neutered BUT whom at least gets a good home, and a dog who is a rape victim.....and yet has a home....is just idiotic. What is worse is that I think you know it.
First, speak for yourself about sex being unnecessary. And especially don't speak for dogs who don't have any "hang ups" like you apparently do about sex. I DON"T have appreciation for a dog's sexual desire? You are contradicting yourself. YOU just said that "sex is unnecessary". In fact, I would think it would be a rare male dog who would be happy, hunky-dory with forced celibacy as you seem to think would be OK and better then having him neutered if that would get him an otherwise good, but non-sexual life.
Second, there you go with that strawman argument again. Why is it all or nothing with you? Remove the eyes because one doesn't like them......LOL That is almost so stupid a comparison that it is funny.
You said, "Damn, you have an attitude" When I pointed out what I am sure is a fact that I have been around a long long time and have the experience to have seen a LOT.......not to mention an open mind in order to have LEARNED a lot. But anyway, ain't that the pot talking about the kettle......at BEST? And to be sure, at least I am not the one using the foul language and acting insulting and so militant and "no quarter" here. Yeah. It's no wonder that I don't say much.
"Good home"
No. They can't keep dogs from fucking eachother. How can you be a good owner and not have control of your animal?
Also, your attitude is showing again.
"I think you know it."
I'm contradicting myself? How?
Sex has always been unnecessary for me, or rather, us.
It's true until we talk about reproduction... But wait! Spaying and neutering is done to prevent pet overpopulation for irresponsible owners. And this world is even more overpopulated with humans too. Oh, I guess I'm right then.
Sex is not necessary to one's health and happiness and sex also corrupts the mind.
What I was saying was is that I appreciate their sexual behavior because it is a part of their behavior.
But with spaying and neutering they mostly lose this desire.
And no your anecdotes aren't evidence that they still are.
Not to mention the other behavioral changes and the fact of fiddling with their genitals like it's a piece of meat.
People don't appreciate the canid body and it's disgusting.
And sexual desire isn't like hunger. It goes away eventually and it's useless.
Yeah, that's a big ego you have there.
But it doesn't matter who you are, you can still be wrong.
I'm not going to believe someone because they were 100% right with every thing they said up until now.
There's no gauranteed victory just because you're some 'kool kid' or something.
Look. You and I obviously have different ideas about this subject. But I wish you'd stop being so hyperbolic in voicing your objections. Stop being so militant! THAT is one of the huge reasons why people hate us (zoos) so much. And before you even START on that, I agree that there a LOT of other reasons which are closer to the surface........OK?
If this was a perfect world, all of the dogs in it would live free of "the chains of oppression of humans" to autonomously pursue their goals and dreams. Hell, to frolic all day chasing butterflies without the interference of us at all. Free to make all of their own choices. And really, I am only being PARTIALLY sarcastic here. Humans should be neutered?? HA! If you ever met me in person, it would be quite the contest between you and I to see who was more "down" and jaded about the fellows of their own species! I mean that too. But unlike you, I live in the REALITY of the world. I know that people WILL have a dog, and even if they are completely ignorant of how to deal with a sexually intact one, I think it is better to get that dog neutered and have a good home. And NO, a "rapist" giving a dog a home is NOT a valid comparison! And NO, a person who hates to walk a dog giving a dog a home but cutting off the legs is NOT a valid comparison! Personally, I rather have all dogs' bodies remain as nature intended. I think it is important to leave body metabolism.......including hormonal balance......the way nature intended. In fact, it has broken my heart........many times.......when I have had to get one of my lifemates spayed in the interest of protecting their health. And NOT because I was anticipating a loss of the sexual part of our relationship (as I have explained, I have seen very little decrease in that......and in a few instances I have actually experienced an INCREASE in desire on the part of my girls). You accuse me of having an "ego" and an "attitude". That may come across as being true......NOW. After the insulting and vulgar language filled........TIRADE.......that you launched in reply to my original response to the OP here. But that was just me being snarky. See, those with less experience and decades of life in the "school of hard knocks" under their collar, AND who live in an idealistic, but unrealistic world often times mistake that EXPERIENCE as ego and attitude. If it makes you feel better, you are neither the first, nor will you be the last. THAT is why I don't say much.......not because I might offend someone LOL.
You say "sex is unnecessary"? And it "corrupts the mind"? Holy god man, speak for yourself LOL :) I could link about a thousand medical/psychological papers and journals which would contradict you there. I may be a bit more passionate than most (or am I maybe just one of the few here that will ADMIT that while sex is not the only thing.........it IS a BIG thing?). But I can tell you that my girls would be highly P.O.'d at me if I took your attitude about that subject ;) And I don't guess you get around many male dogs do you? Sex IS good for all mammals physiological as well as psychological well being.
Now, whether you take offense how I respond to you after your "sermon"/"tirade" to me on this subject or not, the fact remains that I was making a living evaluating, modifying the behavior of, and placing difficult to place dogs probably before you were born. Not to mention that I have worked (granted, it was long ago) as a vet tech and grew up on a large farm with a plethora of animals......not only of the canine variety. BUT.......yes I CAN "still be wrong". Everyone can. I still "get it wrong" with dogs sometimes, but I try to be even minded and learn everyday that I am around them. And I'm not asking that you "believe me". Hell, I told you early on that I try not to argue points on the internet any longer since I know what I know (or.....GASP.....I wouldn't say it <==and that is a TRUE STATEMENT). I KNOW that I will rarely if ever convince anyone else of what I have learned and seen and KNOW, because on the internet EVERYONE is an anonymous expert. Oops. Here I am though, responding AGAIN to you. You must be special, so at least there's that :)
Yes.
This world is overpopulated with humans.
A lot of accidental pregnancy happens, just like for animals.
And not to mention we don't need more humans and humans only harm more and more.
Thousands of people are suffering, just like those "poor kitties and doggies."
Also, if we do stuff to animals we should do it to humans too.
What makes you think animals should be treated less?
Ah yes, I totally live on another planet which is almost identical. Oh wait a sec, it's your ego thinking you're the one living in reality.
Sure sure, and I'm the king of my country.
-Irresponsible, lazy selfish owners.
-Changes their behavior.
-The animals don't have a choice.
-Parts of the body are removed.
-Owners have less trouble taking care of the animals.
Good to see you still have a heart and maybe even a brain.
Brings tears to my eyes!
What you have seen and haven't doesn't decide what's true or not.
One of your bitches sexual desire didn't increase because of being spayed.
It's because she got older.
If so, you have found a 1 in 10000+. Congratulations.
It is true that spayed bitches have less interest in sex.
They don't go trough heat and no heat means less desire for sex.
Yeah sure. Where did you get that information from? The Bible?
Here your ego is showing again, thinking I'm mistaking your 'experience' as ego.
Now damn, that's a fine example of what I meant.
It's very ironic that you say that you live in reality if you say this.
It is unnecessary for happiness, heatlh and survival.
It may have an upside bonus for heatlh but that's just it.
There's no reason to sympathize with any creature wanting to have sex. So scrap that off the 'Why we spay and neuter' list.
It's nothing but lust.
And lust corrupts. You want more and more. But you shouldn't give more because you'll go crazy if you don't get more the next time.
What's life about these days? Sex, money and power?
Oh yes, even in my ideal utopia it goes like that. Even I am one of those disgusting humans.
And tell me, have you ever heard of Aluzky?
Look at the damn guy. He can't keep his dick out of any dog he sees.
Wait, any human would take the opportunity to have sex...
It corrupts everyone's minds...
One of the reasons bestiality is illegal because of those who have corrupted minds because of sex...
The animal rapists, the people who train animals for sex, fencehoppers, the desperate horny teens who fuck animals...
I did, actually.
We've had a male dog since I was small.
He ran away once and hasn't impregnated any bitches, all he did was search for my family.
And also the dogs I used to visit.
I definitely hung around them quite a lot.
Sooo... What's your point?
You don't even know how old I am.
I could be 10, 20, 50, 80...
Your ego is showing again.
Even if you're older than me, it doesn't mean you're better.
It's a sad excuse to think that you are right.
Why don't you just talk to me without that excuse? Because ironically, that's childish.
Just like how you use smileys, caps and thousands of dots............................................
I'm starting to think you're the younger one here.
There's also other people who have the exact same stories and have different opinions than yours.
I don't even get your point. Does it mean you're right or something?
Because then I could ask other 'experts' if bestiality is wrong. What do they say? Of course!
I guess I should believe these highly trained professionals then.
Thanks captain, that was very clear since the beginning.
And it still doesn't mean you're right even if you try to be open minded and what not as possible.
Well, I'm an exception because I can still be proven wrong and I'm willing to change my mind if people do so by staying rational and making sense.
I am special though!
I always seem to catch the attention of people online very well.
You really ARE broken. Sorry about that, but sex for me is a way that I get closer to those whom I love. So.....once again, speak for yourself.
I have heard of him. AND have had some pointless and ultimately frivolous arguments with him.......hmmmm, kinda like this one with you. The ironic thing is that I never got that impression from him (that he puts his dick in every dog he sees). I know he did (or does) "fence-hop". I know that I believe that he really loves his Lab.
My my. You have significant reading comprehension impairment, don't you? You actually PROVED my point and stated it unawares. You don't have experience being around male dogs. I don't even want to state a number here for me (both owned and "visited" as in evaluated before rescue placement.......boarded.......as clients with behavior issues and ect.) because it would be high to the point of sounding ridiculous (not to mention that the ONLY thing that you'd actually comprehend after reading it would be that I am trumpeting my "ego" again.....which you would then point out to me), but I have been around a LOT of them. And it is an observable FACT that it is exceedingly rare for a male intact dog to do much else in their "free time" except be on the lookout for sex if it is possible to obtain.
Oops. There's that pesky lack of reading comprehension again. Did you forget one of my first statements to you? You know, the one about lurking here? I know that it is annoying, but I have a great sense of how old you are. About 20 at most. Remember, I have been reading your posts for some time. AND that pesky experience again too. You have a writing style that shows you haven't had time yet to learn how to argue a point without a lot of vulgar and abusive language.........unless you are nothing but a troll of course. And I'd hate to think that. Trolls DO act and write a lot like you, but at this point I will give you the benefit of the doubt and choose to believe that you truly do believe in the stance you have taken.
It is pretty funny that you should say something like that. Once again your age.....or more properly your lack of experience is showing. Because "experts" you cite who would argue that bestiality is wrong would (and DO) use the abusive stories wherever they find them (and sadly they are not difficult to find given how the media focuses on them) in order to "prove" their point. They'd be hyperbolic and use strawman arguments......not to mention insulting and spew abusive language to "prove their point" with anyone who disagreed with it. Of course they'd ignore benign bestiality, and FOR SURE they'd ignore a loving zoophilic relationship because that would undermine their "all or nothing" militant stance. Oh wait. That sounds just like a certain WarCanine that I know :)
DARN! There is that pesky "lurking" thing I do again which lets me know you are lying about that statement, or at least are deluded about yourself. You are all nicety.....as long as someone agrees with you. And then no holds barred lash out if they do not. And I want to tell you that if your first response to me had been EVEN MINDED like I strive to be, we'd have agreed to disagree by now at WORST, and maybe we'd even have found some common ground. And please note--not even open minded which is what you thought that I said and you actually STATED after reading the phrase "even minded" written by me. Once more, PLEASE, if you are going to so vehemently argue a point, you've GOT TO brush up on your reading comprehension my friend.
Yeah, I get that. Just like a troll is/does. But I KNOW that you are not trolling me, right?
Ah yes, I'm broken because I don't think the same as you.
'Boohoo erryun is broken cuz they donrtagree with my errpinions.'
Ah yes, sex brings you closer to your love.
Now let's look at what your brain actually thinks: "I'm hungry for sex and want to fuck for my own good!"
Funny, I felt exactly the same.
Keeps saying what he says are facts...
Thinks he's better because experience/IQ...
Is almost convinced I'm a troll...
The list goes on! Got quite some things in common huh?
In the beginning I didn't have that feeling either, until the disgusting pedo-loving fencehopping spastic admitted it.
I know I'm not exactly the guy who thinks that sex really involves love to begin with, I don't believe he truly loves his dog or dogs.
He's the perfect example of a bad zoo. The horny guy who can't keep his dick out of his pants. Not to mention he pimps his own dogs to others...
Oh so you've seen more dogs than me? What the fuck is your point?
Yeah, no.
Even if you were right, it doesn't mean anything.
You know what my mom said? That I also have a lack of experience and don't have the right to decide if bestiality is wrong or not.
The same woman who captures birds to put in tiny cages, claims to be a pro because she has worked as some kind of vet assistant and has many animals.
Man, that bird isn't alive anymore.
It doesn't matter how old you are and what you did and who you are.
If you use age, experience, anything along the lines of that as an excuse for anything, you are just trying to make a sad escape plan.
Wrong and wrong.
This is just how I communicate and how I am.
Sorry that you can't accept me using baddie words.
I guess all those adults using the same kind of lamguage are all kids in disguise!
I know you're trying to offend me by calling me a troll as if most things I say are ridiculous.
'och it hrtz u ofnded me' There's your attention you wanted.
Oh yes, of course they're right about everything they say.
EXCEPT when it's about bestiality.
A but strange and unusual you think? Nonono, this is not a coincidence.
This means either:
Or:
I'm going with the obvious one, 2.
DARN! You don't know what I think.
You cannot know what I think. I know this is true because only I can know this of myself.
I have been proven wrong and have also changed my mind on things that I always believed to be different.
Stop pretending that you've seen everything I said.
It's funny that you think after watching something, you suddenly know everything about it.
Hey blimbo, don't just observe, but actually do something else than stay behind safely behind the glass and pretend you learned everything by just watching.
Not really, but okay.
You really got the wrong impression of me.
Oh shit, I missed one word?
I've made one tiny mistake because I already can't see shit to begin with?
Ah yes, now I can't read at all!
Oh nonono.
You're wrong on that.
All this time, these 5ish months, in all those different subs I only have been trolling everyone around me!
Hahaha I got ya all!
Even the people who I helped, I was kidding! Haha, I demolished everyone!
No, just no...
Reeally? You are not 20 (or younger?) Uh-huh. Well, you get the last word.......as a good often troll does. Yep, I have decided that that is about what you are. Buh-bye.
As I said, it doesn't matter what my age is.
And there's no need to be surprised as guessing someone's age isn't easy.
Calling me a troll is just unnecessary, you can just say that you don't want to talk anymore.
Unless you're really convinced that I'm a troll.
I don't think a troll would put that much effort to use his Reddit account since months ago.
As for having the last word, that's just a part of arguing...
THAT'S talking? No, that an argumentative and petulant troll who is pissed because they are not able to do their normal "smack-down" when they've met someone FAR more intelligent than they are used to. And THAT is why I am done with this.
And BTW--I can EASILY guess your approximate age due to exactly that. Whereas on the other hand, how dare you write something like this:
So, I am not "allowed" to guess your age based on your writing style, use of vocabulary, AND when you are backed against the wall how you fall into petulant and in many cases irrelevant insults? But it's okay for YOU to have the audacity to tell me how I think about and what my motivations are about the most intimate thing that my mate and I do together? THAT is not from you experiencing my writing style or knowing ANYTHING about me. That is straight from YOUR very own "hang-ups" about sex.......likely forged when your mom caught you jerking off and smacked you with a ruler telling you how BAD and NASTY sex is. What is it that you said? Oh yeah....... "sex corrupts the mind."
And you know what? Anyone who reads this conversation.......whether they agree with my viewpoint on neutering or not......will agree with me on that.
"LOL"
What are you, 13?
Look look! I guessed your age!
Just... no.
Btw, you cannot easily guess my age, you even guessed wrong.
You cannot know someone's age just by how they type and act.
I'm sorry that you cannot accept others personalities and are offended by that.
You don't need to make an excuse at all, using someone's age is discrimination.
Very funny coming from a zoo.
That sentence does not make sense.
Hey dude, everybody agrees with me!
Look, now I won! Wow, easy right?
Edit:
I love how you say I can't know that from you, yet right after that you make up some fucked up story which you have no evidence of.
Sexual urges are not exactly like hunger, because it goes away anyways and you don't need it to survive.
However, I can know what is going on in peoples and animals minds when they have sexual urges.
It's like saying you don't eat because you're hungry, but because it brings you closer to your love and do it for your love.
You only do it for your own good.
Tell me, why do you not jerk off humans? Why not other animals?
You want to spread joy and love right?
We only really have sex with partners because they usually allow it and they're easily accessible.
But there's of course other people and animals who would fuck anyone in their sight.
Sex indeed corrupts the mind.
Everyone fights for it and would fuck just about any hot 'whatever you're attracted to.'
There's a reason creatures rape and fight for their lives for who gets to fuck.
Even if it brings you closer to your love, it's unnecessary.
Wake up from your illusion.
I really don't like the idea of neutering, i think of it as genital mutation
Yup. People are always looking for excuses to mutilate something against its will. It's rather disturbing.
Like a power trip or show a dominance, genital mutilation is the product of self esteem dysfunction. "I took your ability to reproduce, therefore I am dominant over you! Ahahaha!!"
These people act more like the slugs that bite other slugs genitals off for reproductive rights.
I'm guessing you mean 'mutilation'?
Because that's sadly true.
Even worse, this article tells us that it's even worse than we think.
More fear and anger? Poor animals...