Oh, hello.

I don't think most ppl anywhere will understand any of this (on level required), but everything I've read before in my life,everything inspirational and supportive was written for quite wide auditory usually, probably with some hope there will be someone who will make sense out of all this, someday...so ....

First, while it probably known book here I want to copy/paste part of "Mind of the dolphin", where John Lilly talks about 'living together' with non-humans. Yes, it was about dolphins in particular, but I thinkaccurately thought out idea more applicable to land beings at this moment ...but it require quite radical and self-questioning way of thinking, unlike anything you you usually see as critical thinking [more on this in last paragraph]

1. "The mind of the dolphin", Library of Congress Catalog Card Number: 67-10417. ---------------------p 165----------- After the publication of Man and Dolphin I received a plea from a woman in England to leave the dolphins free in their sea and not to confine them. I believe this can be done and is best done for their health and for the future of our relationships with them. We can set up a special facility by the sea into which dolphins can come and go as they please. We would still have to be cautious in our rela- tionships with them to avoid accidents and to avoid infect- ing them with diseases and vice versa. Man and dolphin could then meet on a more equal footing, free to come and go. This chronic confinement, together, in the same space, year after year, cannot be healthy either for them or for us. Let us then imagine an idealized facility in which man and dolphin can so meet. [...] The basic principle behind all of such designs is to fur- nish the opportunity for each side to meet and interact with the other with maximum safety, maximum integrity, and maximum initiative for each species. [...] In the proposed school and in the proposed home, a sick dolphin can come in and apply for medical care. It is important that all of his social relations with each of the staff are such that he will so choose to come. One cannot treat a patient who is so fed up that he leaves. This is a very important aspect of the school: freedom to leave and to return. -----------------------

Well, I omitted all dolphin-specific details, because obviously with horses (or dogs, or other beings) they will be different. But I still think you better to go to library/Internet and find your copy and read it and generalize from it ....

2. "Zoopolis" [obviously second meaning of word 'zoo' only relevant here, on subreddit about zoophilia, or love of non-human beings]. ISBN 9 78-0-19-959966-0

------p. 121-------- One of the most important unknowns is whether domesticated animals will continue to choose to be part of a mixed society with humans, once given greater freedom and assisted agency. When Elizabeth Marshall Thomas moved to the country and created a very large enclosed territory in which her dogs were free to establish lives of their own choosing, the result was that while they certainly never cut off contact with her, and continued to rely on her for food and emergency assistance, they did withdraw somewhat, gradually reorienting their lives around each other rather than human companions (Thomas 1993). In The Dogs Who Came to Stay, George Pitcher describes a story with an opposite trajectory - of Luna the stray dog who gradually came to trust and adopt Pitcher and his partner (Pitcher 1 996) . Rita Mae Brown describes how her eleven-year-old dog, Godzilla, adopted the next-door neigh­bour as her primary human, though she returned almost daily to visit Brown on her farm (Brown 2009) . And Thomas describes a similar experience with her free-roaming cat, Pula, who opted to live with a family up the road, though she still greets Thomas eagerly when their paths cross (Thomas 2009). In both of these latter instances Godzilla and Pula left multi-animal houses for homes where they were the only animal companion and the sole focus of human attention. [....]

p. 140:

There may be other kinds of dog work that fall into this category. For example, a gregarious dog might enjoy accompanying her human on social work visits to hospitals or homes for the aged. There may be kinds of work in which dogs (or rats) use their superior sniffing skills, without excessive train­ ing required, to assist humans in detecting tumors, or incipient seizures, or dangerous substances, or tracking lost individuals. We emphasize, however, that the possibilities for exploitation are very high, and the use of animals for these purposes would need to be carefully regulated. For such use to be non­-exploitative, the animal must be in a position to give a clear indication that they enjoy the activity, that they thrive on the stimulation and contact, and that the work is not a price they need to pay to receive the love, approval, treats, and care that are their due (and need) . Work must be balanced with lots of down time in which dogs engage in other activities and socialize with their human and dog friends. In other words, dogs (and other working animals) should have the same opportunity human citizens have to control the condi­tions under which they contribute to society, and to follow their own inclina­tions in terms of how they live their lives, and with whom they spend time.

One danger is that we will mould and manipulate these needs and prefer­ ences to our ends. This is the classic problem of 'adaptive preferences', long recognized within the field of human justice. One of the worst forms of injustice is manipulating or brainwashing the oppressed so that they come to accept their oppression as natural, normal, or deserved. This has been an issue in theorizing about justice for women, lower castes, and other groups that have been socialized to accept subordination.

---

well, my own reflection on all this ...it seems most (all) zoophilic humans tend to disbelive in other humans, in possibility they all can live with this softened desire to make sexual union (at times) with non-humans as something..truely normal. After all, humans constantly want other humans sexually, but we don't turn into maniacs, so why same mechanism can't work with non-humans? yes, it very complex question - why society works...or doesn't. But there was interesting sci-fi book about alternative realities/time travel ...one character introduced idea about Israel (as it known in our own time) into 1920x ...everyone laughted at him first ..'wow, country where every citizen is Jew?? everyone, including...prostitutes??? It sounds too weird!" (from memory, not exact quotation.). Well, may be bigger aggregation of humans who feel this ..attraction to non-humans in fact possible. But again, humans tend to fail as social animals ...and finding way out of this trap seems to be essential, otherwise whole Sheepville will be dominated not just by dominative humans over sheeps (and dogs, and other beings), but very few human 'elite' over everybody's thinking/acting, as it happen today (so my like of practical anarchy, as antidote against our tendencies ... to make big and oppressive hierarchy).

3. Anthony Weston. Environmental Ethics as Environmental Etiquette: Toward an Ethics-Based Epistemology / Jim Cheney and Anthony Weston* (1999)

p. 125: “Etiquette” is a genuine means of discovery. As we said above, we oppose the usual view that puts knowledge of animals, for instance, before any possible (serious, intellectually respectable) ethical response to them. On our view, we can have no idea of what other animals are actually capable until we approach them ethically. Now we need to spell out this reversal more carefully.

======================

Again, I've read tons of such literature, but...just throwing list at readers don't make any good for them .... until someone actually start to ask yourself all those very hard question I asked about my love (or 'love'?) of dolphins - it will be something ..from outside. All this reading + observations/living lead me to specific conclusions, very dishearting most often. But may be humans actually can .... become different kind of social animals.