Edit: Thank you all so much for the kind words and advice, it really helps out. I'm very happy to have found a supportive community here.
Hi, I only recently discovered my interest in animals and I've been wondering about a few things surrounding it.
First of all, I know there are some differences between zoophilia and bestiality but the lines seem somewhat blurred to me. From what I understand a zoophile is someone who is attracted to animals and bestiality is the act of having sex with an animal, please correct me if I'm wrong. Anyhow, I also believe there's a difference between forced and consentual sex? Which brings me to the question, how do you know if animals consent to anything? I suppose they don't show affection the same way humans do, how do you know they're alright with it?
As bestiality is both a serious taboo and illegal (at least it is where I live), how do people talk about it? I mean, I get that there's a somewhat sizely internet community out there but do you confide in people you know in real life? I'm seriously afraid of how people around me would react so I'm keeping my new-found feelings very silent.
Somewhat related to 1; the practicality of bestiality. Of course there's lots of rumours but is it dangerous to have intercourse with animals? Are there really hundreds of cross-species STD's? And how do people have intercourse with animals without forcing/hurting them?
I'm sorry if this comes across as rambling but I've been kinda stuck with this since I found out and it's pretty hard for me not being able to talk to anyone about my feelings. Please don't feel obliged to answer every single question, even a single answer is very much appreciated. Thanks.
i hope you get lots of good advice here. it's very tough when you first make that discovery about yourself.
1.
your understanding is essentially correct. around here, the two words have different connotations, however, and it can get very convoluted and confusing, especially since no two people seem to have the same definition, despite what a dictionary might tell you. around here, in general, zoophile refers to someone who has a strong emotional bond with an animal that is romantic in nature. it may or may not involve sex. bestiality is a big bad horrible nasty word (around here) that (IMO of what it seems others here think) means someone who rapes animals. at the very least, i will say that the general connotation is that there is far less (if any) emotional attatchment to an animal where bestiality is concerned .. but my understanding of the word is as yours - it's simply a word for the act itself that has taken on a much harsher, heavily loaded interpretation due to how much we want to distance ourselves from those who do harm animals. that is certainly understandable, i don't disagree with that... but the choice of the word 'bestiality' to point the finger at THEM vs. US is somewhat arbitrary, IMO.
there is absolutely a difference between forced and consentual sex. rape is rape, no matter if you're talking about two humans, a human and a non-human, or even two non-humans (or more than two, for that matter).
as far as how to know if an animal is showing consent, it's a matter of knowing your species of interest well and making very sure you know both the species' common sexual behavioral responses and the individual animal you are with .. because just as humans are all individuals, so are non-humans, and they may not display the same exact behaviors, or not consistently. there's also (IMO) a fine line between "playing hard to get" and actually getting a "no" response. that is where one needs to tread very lightly and err on the side of caution.
also, yes.. animals do show affection in different ways to how humans do, though there are a few similarities.
i'll stop here for now and respond to the other questions if i find the time.
As far as STDs are concerned, while maybe a few zoonoses do exist that are transmittable sexually, you are far more likely to catch one from a human than an animal, especially an animal you know and care for.
Many people don't. They prefer to remain silent. Some people do come out of the closet, as it were, and that is a difficult thing that requires a lot of thought behind it, a solid plan, a backup plan, and a deep understanding of the person you're confiding in. If you feel comfortable not talking about your attractions, then you probably shouldn't. At least give yourself some time to think about it. If, after thinking about it for a long time, and if you feel significantly distressed or alone because of your inability to talk to others about your orientation, then you should ask again and we might be able to give you some advice on the matter.
go with that.
yeah, as /u/swibblestein basically said, there's a lot to consider, and in general, the best course of action is to keep quiet about it, unfortunately. it can make one very lonely, but the possible fallout from telling others in person could be quite bad.
a particularly dangerous time in one's development as a zoo can be when you start feeling better about zoophilia and yourself.. it can come with a euphoria that might make you want to share it with anyone and everyone who'll listen (as things that make us happy often do). i made that mistake myself, and i was fortunate that nothing came of it (though i didn't tell anyone in person, actually, only people online outside of zoophilic social circles). just something to be aware of.
what worked for me was getting involved socially online in various zoo communities and talking with people. eventually, you may find you have more than just zoophilia in common with other zoophiles, and you may decide to meet in person. this is not an action that should be taken lightly, either, but it is IMO the only path safe(-ish) path to having someone to talk to in person about these feelings. you should take a LONG time to do this.. not something to take only a few months, but better a year or much more. at this stage, i don't think it's a good idea to consider .. just something to keep in mind for down the road.
I want yo try real bad.
Well since everyone has kinda been throwing answers around ill put in a little stuff that I feel should be said:
Accurate understanding of bestiality vs. zoophilia (which mind you can be very important to recognize at times...). No one has given you any actual examples of how an animal can consent so I guess ill do that (I know I would like if someone gave me an actual example instead of just telling me if I was right or wrong): if a mare is interested in sex she will often back up into you and lift her tail, assuming you're already standing behind her. To my knowledge dogs do something similar to this too, but I am not positive that it has the same implications. If a mare is not alright with your sexual advances, which can usually be deduced by her pinning her ears or clearly refusing for you to stand behind her, its probably a bad idea to continue or you risk getting kicked. I would say that's a pretty good way of knowing whether she's consenting or not. Hopefully a dog zoo around here can give you some examples for their respective animals, im afraid my knowledge only extends for horses :P
General consensus amongst people in this community: DONT TELL ANYONE! You're right to say its a serious taboo and illegal, and for that reason, unless you are talking to someone who would truly take a bullet for you, then the relief of coming out is not worth the risk of having someone up in your private sex life trying to undermine your sexual ventures.
u/OS2Oslov touched in this. There are no exclusively STD's between animals and humans, but there are still diseases that can be transmitted between humans and animals. These are known as zoonotic diseases, if your more curious on this I welcome you to read more online! You should generally not be worried about these, simply make sure your animal partner is clean before engaging in any kind of body to body contact and you should be absolutely fine.
As for forcing/hurting animals, you cant force a large screw into a small hole... There is no way around this, if an animal is too small to have sex with them, then you cannot have sex with them, simple as that. As for just general avoiding injuries, the animal is just as much an active participant when having intercourse as you are, be reasonably gentle as you would with a person and recognize your animal's warning signs. If it is clear that the animal is not enjoying intercourse (ex. horse pins ears, dog starts whimpering), then stop, period.
Dont be sorry, these are perfectly reasonable questions! Stay a while and talk, some people in this community are allergic to bullshit but I guarantee if you are respectful everyone else here will be respectful as well. We are all here because we want other zoos to talk to and discuss zoo-related things! :)
this is quite true, though i would like to point out that although penetrative sex may not be possible, that doesn't mean you can't make attempts to please the animal in other ways. however, do be careful and as you said .. "be reasonably gentle".
I´d love it if you would just tell that you´re not a practicing and experienced person with mares. Your guesses that a lifted tail and backing up into you are sings of consent is audacious, but inaccurate. Real signs of consent during intercourse are chewing , tunring around and looking at you, spread hind legs with the weight shifted (the usual mating stance of a mare), to name but a few. Mares will also raise their tail when excited (not only sexually), when they pee (not usually a sign of sexual arousal) and when you manipulate their vulva and vagina regardless of arousal (kind of a reflex). Backing up into you may be a sign of consent when you are already in her, but could also be just an itch she can´t get rid of herself (mares usually bump their butts into the box walls when their tail, butt or anything else itches).
When you´re , as I am, familiar with horses for a long time and also a practicing equine zoo, you can smell their heat in their urine. The odor changes slightly, but with enough experience , you know exactly what time it is for her by simply smelling her urine. In her main heat phases, mares ooze a transparent slime from their vagina and you often can see transparent drips and "threads" of this slime hanging from the bottom of her labia. When it dries, and it almost everytime dries in the hair of their tails and on their buttocks, what gives you a hard time to get it out of there again without water, this slime will be quite hard, almost like dried cum stains.
What also is a good indicator for mares being in the mood is their clingyness. A mare interested in you will follow you around, will tease you and play the "hard to get game". These special, high pitched mating squeals also can occur from time to time as part of the teasing game.
Please, Lateoss, play fair, especially when a newbie demands answers you cannot give due to your lack of experience. Either we´re giving accurate info...or none. Just parroting what you´ve read on the internet won´t help anyone.
Jeez I was just trying to help the guy out... But you are right, unfortunately I haven't been through the same stuff some people here have. I could have sworn I mentioned somewhere that I don't have any firsthand experience with this stuff but I guess I didn't... So rip me
I do not intend to "rip you" at all, mate. I´m also in no way looking down on because you lack experience, but I´ve become gradually more and more allergic to parroting and selling second hand experience as first hand. And that´s exactly what you did here. Look, man, I´m not blaming you for an issue this whole "internet zoo community" has since its creation; the vast majority of internet zoos has no experience whatsoever, it is estimated that only 15 - 20 % of us have "done it" and the rest is just reading and repeating what they have read.
As I said, I don´t blame you personally since reddit sadly has no extra profile page for each user which allows to provide further info. I´d really appreciate such extra pages for each one in here as this would make it a lot easier to put everything in perspective. I doubt OP will go through your entire archive of contributions to find this one reply where you unveil that you´re inexperienced. I incidentally ran across it by going through a few older threads, but a newbie would have to do some serious post digging to find it.
My point here is that you could have easily added a short "I myself haven´t been with a horse, but experienced folks say..." or something else that clarifies you´re just giving second hand info. That really is the only thing I have to accuse you of here, so don´t take my reply as an attack on you, just a little reminder how easily "zoo myths" and "zoo fairy tales" can spread when people leave out essential info. Just look at the common "when mares pee, they climax" crap...this is definitely false, but has been maintained mostly by inexperienced zoos (and some experienced ones as well) and has mutated into an all present, unkillable myth the internet zoos keep telling.
So please bear with me that I felt the urge to put your reply into the right perspective; as I said, I don´t blame you for being inexperienced or voicing your opinion, but you should definitely voice your views with the little addendum I proposed above to make it easier for OP to get the right perspective. Whom would you ask how to pack a parachute? Someone who has read about it on the internet? Or someone who has been doing this for ages and is still alive? ;) The one only reading about it can surely give you some info that may actually be right, but if your life depends on it (like it may depend when you have contact with an animal that´s several hundered kilos heavy and could easily squash, trample or bite you into oblivion), it is only fair when the guy who only reads stuff on the net adds that he has his entire knowledge from theory and not practice.
Hope we´re cool again now, don´t take my reply so hard, okay?
How dare you attack me!
I didnt take it hard at all lol, after all you are right. You made a good point, as I said before I could have sworn that I mentioned that I was inexperienced (im pretty sure I typed up a comment mentioning that, walking away and forgetting about, and ultimately never getting back to it). Im not gonna get upset at you for being honest, thats the last thing I would want to see from someone in this community.
ad 1.: Partially right. Every act of sex between a human and an animal is bestiality. It is zoophilia when there´s not only a sexual, but also an emotional attraction towards the animal. Some definitions even say that only a fixation on animals should be called zoophilia. Nonetheless, the emotional side really is important in zoophilia. If you´re "just an animal sex lover", you don´t exactly qualify for being a genuine zoophile. There are many reasons why people engage in sex acts with animals: taboo breaking, thrillseeking, being shy towards humans, as a substitute for a nonexistent human relationship, as a kink shared in "normal" human partnerships, as part of sado-masochistic play etc. pp.... and some do it out of sheer, unconditional love for the animal. These we call zoophiles. You see, not every fella fucking an animal qualifies as a zoophile.
The question of consent actually is tricky as animals aren´t capable to give what most humans accept as consent: informed, vocal consent. But what most normals don´t realise is that their own, "normal" form of giving consent often doesn´t qualify as IVC , too. You rarely come across a human couple formally asking each other if they want to have sex. Even in normal, human-on-human relationships, consent is displayed through body language and facial expressions rather than a blunt "Do yo wanna have consentual sex with me right now". With animals, identifying consent is a skill that has to be trained. You need to know exactly how your "chosen" species communicates, you need to know all about this species´ mating rituals and always have to question yourself about your own perceptions and conclusions. But a few cornerstones for identifying consent exist: when you have to restrain, bind or trick your animal into it, it´s very likely that it´s not consentual. I´m a mare guy , for example, and thus, using ropes, whips etc. excludes itself per se. As a horse guy, you also don´t corner your horse or do anything else that stops the horse from evading your advances if not in the mood. And one thing I have to mention in particular because this sadly still is widespread in our community: apathy is not consent. Active participation of the animal in the act somehow is a strong hint towards consentuality of the act.
ad 2.: Yeah, there are quite a lot of people on the internet who are intrigued with bestiality and zoophilia. But don´t be fooled, actual zoophilia (see 1.) is rare. Due to the taboo nature and legal issues in many countries of the world, it´s absolutely NOT recommended to voice out your newly discovered interest. In many countries, any sex act with animals is forbidden and can result in fines and even jail time, so tread lightly and don´t tell any random person. We´re basically illegals...and probably one of the most despised sub groups of folks. I can´t stress it enough: be careful, you´re on very dangerous territory now. Silence IS golden when you´re a zoo.
ad 3.: Of course it´s dangerous. Like everything else in life. As a practicing zoo, you are dealing with fangs and claws, massive body weight, hooves and sharp teeth. STD´s are neglegiable in our case, very few diseases can be contracted when having intercourse with animals. But you´re dealing with animals, so hygiene plays a major role. When the animal is taken care of well and inspected by a vet on a regular interval, you don´t need to worry too much. The risks of zoophilia are only slightly higher than that of any animal owner.What hasn´t been mentioned: you actually CAN get human STD´s from an animal, but that´s only the case when you share your animal with another "zoo" and get in contact with this other "zoo´s" leftovers. To be precise: you can´t get , for example, HIV from an animal, but it´s possible that you get HIV when you engage with an animal that´s been "used" by a HIV positive human shortly before.
If there are any further questions, feel free to ask. Zoophilia is a very complex issue and you´re basically scratching the surface here, there is lots of things to learn for you.
well, this is good advice in general, outside of {narrowly-defined} sexual life ..moreover, I tend to think more we practicate those kind of relations everytime - more it likely we will have good habit to follow in all times and situations....
You're correct on your definitions. How you know if there's consent will depend on the animal, but the basics are around body language. If an animal seeks out certain contact without prompting and tries to restart contact when it's stopped, that's a sign of consent. 'Consent tests' are actually used by people who work with dogs to establish if a dog enjoys petting or even if certain dog-dog interactions are appropriate. Animals also have certain behaviors specific to sex that can be watched for, imitated, and responded to.
The safest way to talk about it though is to not talk about it, but a lot of people will make exceptions. I only talk about it currently with other people who I know are also zoos. I only reveal things that are less incriminating than what the other person has revealed as a sort of 'insurance'. If you absolutely must tell, it's not a decision to be made lightly. If you tell the wrong person, it could backfire horribly, especially if you own and/or work with (or are training to work with) animals. Legal consequences can vary from nothing to a fine to felony charges. If you're not independent financially and don't live on your own, you could lose your financial security and housing. Any animal you own could be confiscated and possibly euthanized.
As far as how safe it is there aren't really many currently discovered zoonotic STDs and none that are specific to bestiality. Most are either also found in human sex or in non-sexual animal-human interactions. It should be noted though that this isn't really something that's well studied.
As far as having sex without forcing or hurting the animal- force goes back to consent and knowledge of an animal's body language and mating behavior. Without harm depends on the species and act involved. It isn't possible for a human to use their penis to penetrate certain species with harm. Meanwhile if an animal is penetrating or using a part of a human to masturbate there's not much harm that is possible, regardless of size. Know the animal's anatomy as well as what the possible risks of an act might be in order to reduce possible risk of harm.
just thought of something else ... allergies. some people are allergic to certain animals. in particular, the example i'm thinking of is dog semen. if you're interested in male dogs, you'll want to get a bit on your skin first before letting him penetrate you or giving him a blowjob and look for a reaction. again, just using dogs as an example (it's the only one i've heard of, honestly).
I don't know who downvoted you, but I counter-upvoted as this is a true statement.
thanks. can't imagine why that would have been downvoted...
To answer question 3 of number 1, and also question 2 in number 3 you should have just not used numbers to list questions
Simple. Let the dog do what he/she wants, don't force it to do what it doesn't. If it's a male, get him to hump you. If he wants to shove his cock inside of you then good. that is consent. If female, as with humans it isn't as easy. You gottta learn your girl. Raised her, already gained her trust through a lifetime of love and you'll better recognize when she wants it. A good rule of thumb is that you aren't her first. Let a male dog "break her in" if possible, so that she knows what she's getting. By comparison, your knot-less dick might be more gentle on her and she'll own up.
Anyway, to answer... 2 I think, and also question 1 in number 3.
To keep you and your lover safe, don't tell anyone IRL. Don't even do anything remotely close to zoosex anywhere someone can stumble upon you. Don't cum in your dog a week or so before taking it to the vet, or you better be sure to suck it back out after you're done. Regardless of how "tolerant" your friend/family member/gynecologist etc might seem, Do. Not. Tell. Anybody.
The internet is a wonderful place. Use a VPN enabled browser and talk to people online, using an untied username. Try not to give out any personal info. Oh, and check your photos/videos if you ever plan to upload any, for GPS info or other EXIF data.
STDs? Nah. It doesn't happen anywhere near as often as within humans. Of course the risk is there, but think about it. If it's YOUR dog how many other dogs could it have slept around with? Zoonosis dont just spring up out of nowhere.
Please correct any of my info if it is bullshit. I don't claim to know everything.
/r/nocontext
1) I don't know how much you know about animals in general, especially mammals. I'm still a virgin but in your same situation, but to me it's pretty easy to tell when the animal you have an affective relationship with (be sexual or not) is enjoying what you do and when it isn't. It's true that they express themselves differently from humans, but every species have their own way to express consent, and you can learn from it if you live with one, so I wouldn't worry about it if I was you. I think you will easily know if it's consent or not. There are plenty of signals you will recieve from the animal and that you will learn and let you know when they are enjoying it and when not.
Can't really answer the other two