[NS] Would you rather be stewed or screwed? (self.zoophilia)
submitted 2017-07-08 22:48:52 by caikgoch

Imagine for a moment that you are the "lower" species in the civilization where you live. You could be a pet, a beast of burden, a food source, or just enslaved by alien invaders.

How would you feel if one of the master species decided to keep you as a sex toy? You would be pampered and well treated but have little freedom and be required to perform whatever sex act pleased your master.

Would it be different if your master loved you and allowed you to choose the frequency and nature of the sex acts?

In other words, suppose that the shoe was on the other foot and my horse owned me. How should I react?

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SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-08 23:42:25

Your first two sentences confuse me, so I'm not sure if I'm some kind of animal or still human. But I guess it doesn't matter that much because I keep my human intelligence even though I'm an animal, otherwise this question wouldn't make much sense.
I wouldn't be comfortable with having sex with them because I wouldn't be attracted to them, so It'd always be rape.
Even if it wasn't rape, I'd still feel very bad because I would feel like my owner would not love me. I'd be extremely scared and uncomfortable everytime it comes in just to have sex with me.
No matter what this owner would give me, I still wouldn't believe they'd truly love me. Even if I believed they did love me, I still wouldn't be happy because my owner would be delusional of the fact that I wouldn't be comfortable with this, which means I wouldn't be in good hands.
I'd feel used, alone and disgusted. I'd try to escape and if I am not a human (so an animal) I would search for my species, live and reproduce with them.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-08 23:57:40

Keep in mind that humans are almost always better lovers than mates of animals' own species. Suppose this theoretical other species was that much better than a partner of your own species, gentler and more caring. Would you prefer the stewpot then?

SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-09 00:08:25

Keep in mind that humans are almost always better lovers than mates of animals' own species.

I honestly don't mean this as something bad, but with that logic shouldn't you have sex and have relationships with humans?
I mean, if you hold the opinion that humans are better that way, why don't you?

Suppose this theoretical other species was that much better than a partner of your own species, gentler and more caring. Would you prefer the stewpot then?

It still doesn't make the mightier species attractive nor does that make me want to live with them, I'd still be used as a sex toy, which would make me feel unloved, used and I'd still be raped.
And I doubt that my own species would really use me as a sextoy. Even if they did, I'd actually like it because I'd be attracted to them and it wouldn't be rape.
I honestly don't care about the benefits they give me. They best thing they could do is give me freedom and let me go.
And honestly, if they were truly ''a better partner'' than they wouldn't do any of this.


This is unrelated, but for some reason this post triggers ASMR. Which is strange, because I wouldn't like this. Now that this happens I actually am confused.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 00:31:58

They best thing they could do is give me freedom and let me go.

That isn't an option. Either the space (time, inter dimensional) aliens have tech you can't use or you are in an animal body. You are in the same situation that your dog is.

SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-09 00:46:03

Then my point still stands, I wouldn't be really happy.
Or that's what I THINK. I'm not sure what to feel if I've never experienced such a thing.
And you know, this is a bit unspecific. I'm not blaming you for it, it's just that questions like these are always unspecific no matter what. I understand that, because no one's going to make their question like 10 times longer.
What is my exact situation? Do I get the most delicious food whenever I want? Will I never be ignored? If I show clear signs of not wanting something, do they not do it? Etc.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 01:49:16

Very good questions. If they were all answered to your advantage would cage seem a bit more tolerable?

SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-09 01:57:37

Well, obviously.
I mean, there's no downsides to having these things as a bonus.
But I'm still leaning towards the fact that I'd feel uncomfortable and would not want to live in this situation.
Though, I'm never really sure on this, it's very different to think about something and actually experiencing something in real.
My opinion could be way off.

30-30 amator equae 1 point on 2017-07-09 00:39:35

Slavery is slavery is slavery...doesn´t matter what "perks" you as a "master" are introducing into the "relationship". Additionally I think these imaginary sets like the one you brought up here totally miss the point. Power imbalance is the key word here. As long as there´s a "master", there is no equality, no freedom except for the master. The cage can be as golden as possible, it still is a cage.True freedom is the freedom to say "no" and conditioning a male horse to hump you , totally disconnected to the natural mating phases of horses is just another immaterial leash you are putting your animal on.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 00:44:43

So you would rather share the lot of the bulk of your species be it stewpot or glue factory?

30-30 amator equae 0 points on 2017-07-09 01:20:18

That´s not the point here....can´t you or are you just unwilling to understand?

caikgoch 2 points on 2017-07-09 01:47:01

That´s not the point here....can´t you or are you just unwilling to understand?

Not to put too fine a point on things, BUT, this is my mental masturbation exercise and my point.

The question is: Is it possible that some individuals might prefer a longer, easier life as a captive? Especially if excessive sex is part of the deal?

Rannoch2012 Deer Zoo 3 points on 2017-07-09 02:40:53

You don't get to chose the point in a theoretical situation dude.

TokenHorseGuy 1 point on 2017-07-09 02:57:59

True freedom is the freedom to say "no"

Isn't true freedom setting them free?

caikgoch 2 points on 2017-07-09 12:31:10

Is it still when freedom in the world of your captors creation means starvation, injury, and pain throughout a shorter life?

30-30 amator equae 1 point on 2017-07-09 13:29:02

Isn´t it prostitution when you trade your soul for physical needs? ;)

Well, when I take your reply serious , being in the army, with all of the lack of personal liberties, is the epitome of freedom then. YOu won´t starve in the army and lots of other soldiers are there to protect you from injury and pain. Yet you cannot really think a single second that this is "Freedom", can you? Freedom is independence, the possibility to succeed OR fail in surviving...but I´m German and the Romans built a wall, the "Limes" to separate themselves from our ancient Germanic tribes who took pride in their decline of the Roman offer of "Accept our gods and then you can live in our towns, with our high living standard. They preferred staying in their villages, dirty but free instead of welcoming Roman civilisation, clean but a slave...

PS: Another case of "the excluded third" is what comes into my mind here. Have you ever heard about symbiosis? Mutual nurturing? As equals, without hierarchy?

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 17:13:25

I have stated many times over the years that a healthy symbiosis is my goal. I have also stated that the main reason horses become dangerous is foolish humans trying to protect themselves by micromanaging a free spirit.

But I share my life with a stallion and keep him confined for his own safety. He has scared a couple of neighbors because he is sweet and gentle with me and they can't understand why he isn't the same with them.

He is coming up on 10 years old and seems quite happy and healthy. Still I wonder, could something be different?

TokenHorseGuy 1 point on 2017-07-09 22:02:04

Nevertheless it is a freedom many animals crave. Freedom includes the choice to make decisions that are not in one's best interests.

zootrashcan doggy doodle dandy 1 point on 2017-07-09 01:13:59

Just to be an anal autistic little shit- in this situation do I still have the memories, experiences, and socialization of current human society or have humans filled this role for thousands of years, are brought up in this culture, know nothing else, and have been bred to interact with these beings?

In the first I'd have awareness of what alternatives exist and be more likely to be somewhat unhappy in most situations because it's not what I know and it's not what I consider 'good'. In the second I'd be more likely to be content with my place.

In both though treatment is going to matter more than purpose. I could be given a house, food, water, have medical and psychological staff, and be allowed to roam miles of range as I please but eaten at some point. Conversely I could be confined to a tiny cage, fed poorly, denied medical care, shouted at and hit while being kept as a pet and allowed to die whenever that happens.

If I'm a domestic animal I'm going to die at some point. I'm not going to be able to have the same goals and dreams I do now and it's unlikely my circle of 'people who care if I die' will be around and in contact, so dying sooner rather than later doesn't carry the same weight.

the_egoldstein 1 point on 2017-07-09 01:44:34

I would certainly prefer to be well treated and cared for. Provided they didn't harm me, I don't think I would particularly care that much. It might be a little awkward, but I'll take a pleasant awkward over misery any day. If they were somehow appealing to me as a sexual outlet, I'd have even fewer complaints and may well enjoy the activity. (Hyper-intelligent space bitches from another dimension)

To take it a little farther, if I had been raised in such servitude and had never known any differently, I would probably enjoy it, thinking it to be normal (which in such a world, it would be "normal").

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 21:22:19

Take one more step. How about if you don't keep them happy, tomorrow we take a trip to the vet?

the_egoldstein 1 point on 2017-07-11 02:47:42

That definitely puts an unhappy spin on what could be an otherwise not terrible existence.

I'd rather a relationship I am happy with, where I am treated as a valued member of the family and I am well cared for. I don't think the illusion that I am in control is necessary as I'm not 100% in control now and have had much, much less control of my options at other times in my life.

I'm not entirely sure if I'd prefer to be valued, but poorly treated or undervalued and well treated if the first wasn't an option. Given my history and those two options, I think I'd prefer poorly treated but valued, but that's based on the circumstances that created my personality. Were I born and raised in such an environment, I'd probably think it normal unless I'd previously experienced a higher standard of living.

I've thought about the "Big Snip" many times, if I thought it would actually remove all sexual desire I'd seriously consider it. It's not that don't like sex or that I feel it's shameful, but I must admit that over the course of my life it has had significant influence over my actions; damn you biology! :P

To me, a lot of this reminds me of the discussion in John Stuart Mill's Utilitarianism, specifically chapter 2

Few human creatures would consent to be changed into any of the lower animals, for a promise of the fullest allowance of a beast's pleasures; no intelligent human being would consent to be a fool, no instructed person would be an ignoramus, no person of feeling and conscience would be selfish and base, even though they should be persuaded that the fool, the dunce, or the rascal is better satisfied with his lot than they are with theirs.

...

They would not resign what they possess more than he for the most complete satisfaction of all the desires which they have in common with him. If they ever fancy they would, it is only in cases of unhappiness so extreme, that to escape from it they would exchange their lot for almost any other, however undesirable in their own eyes.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-11 11:47:13

I'll see your John Stuart Mill and raise you Furaffinity.

I'm not entirely sure if I'd prefer to be valued, but poorly treated or undervalued and well treated if the first wasn't an option.

Can I take that to mean that you would want a purpose, a job, rather than be a pampered housepet?

the_egoldstein 1 point on 2017-07-12 00:38:18

I'll see your John Stuart Mill and raise you Furaffinity.

Sure, but they don't want what he's describing, they want the form only, but with an articulate mind behind it (typically, I would agree with him on the exceptions too)

Can I take that to mean that you would want a purpose, a job, rather than be a pampered housepet?

Indeed, I have weathered some very difficult times in harsh environments, but I had goals to keep me focused; I have also suffered ennui when I have been the most "comfortable" as well.

I personally feel that it typically applies to dogs and most other domesticated species as well, that we seem happiest when there's something to strive for, something to focus on, something to attain.

AmoreBestia Pro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-12 04:32:04

I personally feel that it typically applies to dogs and most other domesticated species as well, that we seem happiest when there's something to strive for, something to focus on, something to attain.

How very human of them.

... Or perhaps humans are simply more like them than they think.

Kynophile Dog lover 1 point on 2017-07-09 03:59:46

I'll assume for this purpose that my "keepers" are of such higher intelligence than mine that nothing like a meaningful life in their eyes could possibly be within my reach. They are, in essence, in charge of a civilization which offers me great security and comfort at the expense of my freedom, and without any power on my part to change the situation.

In contemplating my situation (probably a rarity among human beings in the real world), I'd have to acknowledge that my best option is to do what they want, so long as they don't hurt me in the process. If, in doing so, I attain sexual pleasure without the corresponding risks of pregnancy and STIs, so much the better for me and for them.

It might be different if the keepers and I had, for example, a common language, or similar degrees of intelligence and empathy. In this case, there might well be a certain indignity and humiliation in living in this way, since my options are being arbitrarily limited to this "lower" role. But if they have built a better lifestyle for themselves and my kind than my species has ever achieved in the wild, I see no particular reason to resist it.

I guess, in short, I would happily be domesticated by such a higher species given the humongous benefits and low cost to myself or others in my place. The sexual attraction would likely grow over the course of the domestication process, as selection for affinity to the keepers and higher sex drive moved us in that direction. If this had been happening for thousands of years, I might even be more inclined to the keepers than to my own kind, just as a matter of circumstance.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 21:55:48

Interesting thought. I do have a common language with my animals. It's a pidgin because there are some physical differences but we have no trouble communicating desire or displeasure between us. Empathy is probably stronger than logical communication.

Lateoss Wuz gud 3 points on 2017-07-09 11:07:41

Not gonna lie, this question makes me a little uneasy, and rightly so as the idea of enslavement doesnt sound very fun... But I understand where you are coming from here and as much as the situation is unlikely to ever occur I will entertain the question. In fact im surprised some people disregarded this question so much, as I actually think its some rather good food for thought.

If had to choose between stewed or screwed, that is, between food source/slave labor (and a pitiful form of existence) and sexual acts (where I was given more liberty outside of sexual acts) whenever my master pleased, I would choose screwed. Chances are I would generally enjoy screwed more, considering my lifestyle would at least be somewhat decent, at least I think...

It would be different if my master loved me and I loved them and so forth... although that wouldnt really be a master/slave relationship anymore. You would be on more equal ground at that point. Keep in mind I would have to love them as well, and that really is what turns this situation from a disaster, to maybe something that isnt that bad.

Granted my own view of the whole situation would be dependent on my upbringing, and everything above is assuming that event was to happen at this instant. Depending on the situation in which I grew up, I might be more or less inclined to take the screw option, having already developed judgments and experiences with the other master race.

So lets put ourselves into the mind of a dog. Well chances are the dog spent some time with their mother, was soon removed, then spent some time in a retailer of some sort or bought immediately. Either way they quickly generate the belief (whether through training, domestication, or natural instinct) that the human people that they were adopted/owned by are their family/pack. So no dog would perceive their enslavement. Now the one flaw to this hypothesis that I see is the idea of self-awareness in dogs. If a dog knew that they were a dog, and thus made the connection that humans were a different species, do they even care? If dogs really are self-aware then they should be able to make the connection that they are not the same as humans.

So now with horses (which mind you I have a bit more experience with). Like the dog, the horse would spend some time with their mother, and then be removed, maybe living in the same barn as their mother, or sold off somewhere else. The difference is that the horse very rarely treated like a family member of humans and instead spends more time with their own species, usually in an environment edited and shrunk by humans. I have seen horses that are welcoming and friendly to humans. I have seen horses than become depressed or psychologically injured because of what humans have done to them. And I have seen horses that absolutely despise humans. Of course there is no way of telling why they despise humans, it could have been a past experience or maybe (and here is where your question of role reversal really comes into play) they realize that we are not the same as them and recognize their substandard treatment. Of course this opens the door to many questions such as what the horse expects from us, and why some are more willing to bond with humans than others, etc...

So I do think that a horse can perceive a certain level of slavery if they become aware that they are being denied something, which could result in the horse getting upset or unwilling around humans. And since horses are social animals, which do interact with each other, if you have more than one horse owner at a barn, one horse might become aware of some things they another horse is getting that they are not. Of course this is usually very simple stuff like a food stipend or something.

In other words, suppose that the shoe was on the other foot and my horse owned me. How should I react?

I think the best way to approach this (and it really is quite simple) is that your horse, and you as the owner in this messy world should follow the Golden Rule most famously quoted by the founder of Islam: "treat other as you would like to be treated". Of course your a human and he's a horse, so there are differences in physical and social norms, but im sure you get the point. And this is really a message to all zoos when it comes to taking care of their partners; if you wouldnt be comfortable with your partner doing something to you - then dont do it to them (the species' physical/social equivalent of the action).

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 12:25:29

I think the best way to approach this (and it really is quite simple) is that your horse, and you as the owner in this messy world should follow the Golden Rule most famously quoted by the founder of Islam: "treat other as you would like to be treated". Of course your a human and he's a horse, so there are differences in physical and social norms, but im sure you get the point. And this is really a message to all zoos when it comes to taking care of their partners; if you wouldnt be comfortable with your partner doing something to you - then dont do it to them (the species' physical/social equivalent of the action).

This has been my rule pretty much since childhood. I have also suggested to many that they "walk a mile in his horseshoes" when discussing the handling of stallions.

My inspiration for this came from a political discussion about "wage slaves" and a willingness by many to trade freedom for security. I would bet that all of the Lion mythos aside, laying around in a Zoo suits them quite well. It's an ideal for an animal that prefers to sleep 23 hours a day.

So, PETA propaganda aside, why wouldn't most prefer the high tech medical care, steady nutritious food, and climate controlled shelter.

30-30 amator equae 2 points on 2017-07-09 17:09:09

"...why wouldn´t most prefer the high tech medical care, steady nutritious food and climate controlled shelter." You didn´t say this, did you?!? That´s what YOU AS A HUMAN would prefer...you´re clearly anthropomorphising animals here. Yes, why shouldn´t they prefer a doctor, food and shelter? Maybe because they´re animals , not humans and instincts , like roaming around freely, not reason is what guides them? Maybe?!?

Why don´t you just quit this imaginary mind game here and remove all your fences for "your guy" to see what he actually would choose?He´d be gone in one day...especially with other horses around. The "bond" you think you have with him is actually James Bond...in 007 seconds he´d be gone...

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 17:33:08

He has been set free several times thanks to idiot power company personnel. He likes to walk around and visit but the biggest problem has been his desire to bring other horses home with him. He's also tried to keep a few that came to him.

Whether you believe it or not, he is fully aware of the advantages of having a human on call. We have a little game we play sometimes when strange horses are around. He loves showing me off as his personal human. I think he imagines himself as such a great stud that he was able to add a human to his band.

I can absolutely guarantee you that dogs value steady food and climate controlled shelter. Try keeping a St Bernard in a tropical climate.

zootrashcan doggy doodle dandy 1 point on 2017-07-09 18:14:09

Depending on where you are in the world and the species in question, living fence-less or free-roaming happens and might even be common.

Free-roaming cats are a big thing in most places, nothing is preventing them from leaving forever, but unless prevented, they return to the same house. I also know a dog kept outdoors (if it matters, as far as I know the owner is not zoo) without a fence or being tied to anything, and he just stays put. Cattle and chickens raised for food are sometimes also kept without fences here, but they still don't just leave. Hell, people sometimes (accidentally and intentionally) do this to wild animals. Having food, shelter, and comfortable familiar surroundings counts for a lot.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 21:19:40

Yep, ever heard the phrase "when the cows come home"? Or "when the chickens come to roost"? That's normal farm life. I even have groups of wild animals that follow specific implements because they like what I'm leaving behind.

30-30 amator equae 1 point on 2017-07-09 13:42:55

The Kantian categorical imperative might look like a perfect premise to rely on, but what Kant, among other moral instances like religions misses out on is the fact of human obsession with dominance and submission and its sexual connotations.A sadist would never interfere with someone publicly beating up his wife, for example. A submissive/masochistic person likes to be treated badly, so this person has to go out an start hitting and denigrading others, according to the "Do onto others as you wish to be treated yourself".

Just a little reminder that adopting sloganesque philosophies and religious beliefs, as appealing they might look at first, cannot replace creative and independent thinking you do yourself...in a world as complex as mankinds´, there´s always other aspects that fall short when you try to reduce your weltbild to a simple short sentence...

PS: You´re wrong when you say there are horses who are more willing to bond with humans. In 99,99% of all cases, it´s the human with his lack of understanding that makes bonding for the horse unattractive. I´ve been around "unrideable horses" and "asshole horses" and was asked to help their owners with their "untameable beasts"...guess what, mostly it was something in the owner I had to work on, not the horse. I´ve been sitting on countless, probably hundereds of different horses in my career, many of them who have been said to be "misbehaving", being "uncontrollable" or "asshole horses"...and never had a case that I had to resign on. I remember this one "unrideable" gelding, 7 y.o. his owner was desperate because the gelding always tried to shake him off or rub him out of the saddle at the riding hall´s wall. This gelding even literally sat and layed down while his rider sat on top of him...what was considered as a hopeless case just turned out to be a simple problem of his owner. I only had to visit this gelding for 30 minutes a day, standing beside him, grooming him at the withers and gaining his trust and what once was an "unrideable" horse not able to perform the most basic dressage lessons turned into a good L- and M-level dressage horse with lots of talent and fire, but a good heart.

Sometimes, small details are essential, for example, when you´re dealing with prey animals, it could be a good idea to become a vegetarian. As we all know, most animals have tremendously sensitive noses and if you smell like a predator, you will more likely be seen as a predator by prey animals. Not that this would be a big deal, but when you think about it, it is thoroughly logical. Sometimes, it´s just very miniskule details that evade the normal human´s attention...I can only pass on what I´ve been told over and over again by my apprenticeship riding instructor: In 99,99% of the cases, it´s the human´s fault ...and I´ve yet to meet this one horse, this 0,01% , this one individual I am not able to find a connection to...

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 17:17:12

You´re wrong when you say there are horses who are more willing to bond with humans.

I thought Arabians were specifically bred to bond with humans. I know that every one that I have met was extremely communicative.

Lateoss Wuz gud 2 points on 2017-07-09 19:18:43

Just a little reminder that adopting sloganesque philosophies and religious beliefs, as appealing they might look at first, cannot replace creative and independent thinking you do yourself...in a world as complex as mankinds´, there´s always other aspects that fall short when you try to reduce your weltbild to a simple short sentence...

Using my creative and independent thinking I will add to the saying. Maybe it would be more appropriate to say: "Treat other like you would like to be treated, assuming you a reasonable fucking person". Seriously though, the saying assumes you follow all widely-accepted and normalized practices, or that you have the insight to recognize that what you would do to yourself would not be ok to do to others.

You´re wrong when you say there are horses who are more willing to bond with humans.

Now now, I know you for one (from one of your posts on the morality of oral sex thread) believe that you could ever only achieve fellatio with some mares and not all. Does this not imply that some horses are more willing to bond humans, as you cannot perform fellatio (where trust and bonding are necessary) with all mares? Here's something else to consider: Let's say you have a mare that refuses all sexual advances from a human on all occasions (Assuming the person is behaving appropriately around the mare, and is building trust with her). Would the mare prefer another person and actually build a sexual relationship with them? Or is the mare simply unwilling to have sex with humans. If the latter is true, then that would mean that there would be a lesser level of bonding achievable with this horse than another horse.

Getting back on track to what you said about how its the humans fault most of the time. I hear people say that its the humans's fault way to often, but I have to agree with you on it. Although if anything, the speculation that it is the humans fault is a testimony to how horses really do perceive the slavery. If a horse reacts poorly to the way a human treats them (whether it be under saddle, with nourishment, etc.) then they are clearly aware they are mistreated. The only thing up for consideration that I can think of is whether the horse is simply responding to a stimulus, or whether the horse is actually recognizing it is being mistreated/enslaved. In other words, does the horse learn to hate THE ACTION that is bringing them pain, or do they learn to hate THE PERSON bringing them pain? Or maybe both?

If the horse truly learns to hate the person bringing them pain, then it means that they are capable of making the conclusion that the person is mistreating them, and not just responding negatively towards an action or set of action that they associate with pain/suffering.

zootrashcan doggy doodle dandy 1 point on 2017-07-09 19:43:22

To add about 'treat others as you would like to be treated'- my firsthand experience with sadists and masochists shows to me that, for the most part, it still applies to them. Both typically enjoy pain in specific contexts, not universally. Saying it doesn't apply to them is pretty close to saying that people who enjoy getting handjobs are going to go around groping others. "How you would like to be treated" involves context (what the situation is, who's involved and how close are they, etc) as much as action.

Lateoss Wuz gud 1 point on 2017-07-09 21:31:33

As long as the person has the intellect to recognize what another person will or will not be ok with, the saying should apply

caikgoch 2 points on 2017-07-09 21:14:31

A British study has shown that horses clearly remember humans that were nice to them as much as twenty years later and treat them differently than strangers. I can't see how they could do that without connecting the person to the feeling. Anecdotally, I have seen many horses act out against humans that had mistreated them in the past. In fact, certain breeds of dogs (Chow) are notorious for carrying grudges.

ToffeesLover Twuu Zoo 1 point on 2017-07-09 18:35:42

I'm no huge fan of Dan Savage but my mind's latched onto that phrase for years. It's always seemed the height of hypocrisy when non-zoos complained about humans having any kind of sex with animals because it's 'abusive'... in between bites of a bacon cheeseburger. Even if any animal-human sexual contact was definitely shown to be harmful, I don't really think you have a leg to stand on when you're regularly eating other animals (some who are just as intelligent as dogs) - and it's not like cows in the dairy industry (for instance) are asked nicely if they want to be repeatedly impregnated. For that matter, even breeding pets for showing can involve non-consensual penetration or impregnation. But most people would be disgusted if a man mentioned he had sex with a dairy cow, even if that cow lived a life consisting of being made pregnant repeatedly with no question of her consent... I think most people's objections to animal-human sex is 'the squick factor', and then other arguments come up later.

...Back to the question... I'd say 'it would depend', but I honestly think there's very few situations where I'd say 'stewed' would be better. Perhaps if the sexual acts were extremely painful and frequent? Honestly I think I'd quite like being a well-loved pet, the second option is naturally more appealing, but if my choice is 'die or slurp some schlong', you best believe I'm going to learn how to do that and fast.

It's hard to think about a question like this because obviously, me as I am now being plucked up and forced into sexual slavery is a very different scenario to growing up and living in a world where you expect that to be your life. In such a world you might not even have a concept of 'rape', which I definitely would consider it if a higher being stole me in the night and had sex with me regardless of my own feelings.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-09 21:50:30

I'm no huge fan of Dan Savage but my mind's latched onto that phrase for years.

Actually, I think I originated that phrase in the early 90's though I may have just been the first to use it frequently online.

And I think you need to define "harmful" before you go too far. I have seen farmers complain that an animal preferred human company and wouldn't breed properly. To me that sounds like someone found a better lover though it more likely has to do with imprinting.

ToffeesLover Twuu Zoo 1 point on 2017-07-10 01:10:18

Actually, I think I originated that phrase in the early 90's though I may have just been the first to use it frequently online.

Oh, well, I'd rather credit you as the creator anyway :P

And I think you need to define "harmful" before you go too far...

True... I would not consider that 'harmful' although I suppose, but a farmer relying on income from a cow who refuses to mate would feel differently (of course... most breeding is AI, now). I would class 'harm' as either a) physical injury, or b) psychological damage/trauma. Of course, it's hard to know how any given interaction affects an animal.

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-10 03:26:25

My two rules have always been that "physical harm" is a measurable injury (a cut of x length and y depth for example). And "psychological damage" is evidenced by an animal that shows extreme fear in a similar situation. A desire to repeat an experience or shelter with an individual is evidence to contradict mental trauma.

[deleted] 1 point on 2017-07-10 19:33:54

[deleted]

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-10 22:52:27

Have you considered increasing your involvement in the food chain? I've often said that giving animals a chance to eat you goes a long way toward justifying eating meat.

Skgrsgpf 1 point on 2017-07-11 03:45:04

"Would you rather be stewed or screwed?"

Both.

I'd be willing to be screwed (sexually submissive to "higher" being), and then at the end of my life I'd be willing to be eaten (a food source).

In real life, some people are a food source to animals after they die (it's called Sky Burial).

caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-11 04:04:11

Personally, I'd prefer a burial at sea without the shroud.