[NS] When your experience doesn't match what everyone else tells you.(self.zoophilia)
submitted 2017-07-24 10:56:05 by [deleted]
[deleted]
AutoModerator 1 point on 2017-07-24 10:56:07
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You're just really lucky. Seriously, it is.
I haven't met another zoophile even. I'm even convinced I won't meet one. But I guess all I can hope is I don't.
A lot of humans suspect me of being a zoophile, and I don't like their attitude towards it.
Also, this "tolerance" is others just not giving a shit about animals or anything.
The few who accepted it claimed they just didn't care about what happens. In my opinion that's hardly tolerance, it's just being careless.
Although it's quite pointless to say, I too have noticed that there's less antis, I jist don't think it means anything. An anti-zoo that witchhunted apologized to me, in a certain place they don't seem to mind it, a friend had seen a picture and said he didn't care about it.
But hey, eventually a bad roll will happen. I'm not going to get blinded with optimism and blindly follow it. Always keep these bad experiences from coming out in mind. Ugh, this is one of the reasons why I hate optimism.
When YOU are lucky, you tell everyone else about it and give them false hope, only to leave them dissapointed some day.
You know what? You go ahead, just don't convince anyone else to do it.
Your anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much to us. And realistically, it shouldn't to you either.
"You don't NEED to come out. You don't die because of it!"
That's not the whole sentence, but it's one we got from a very good "friend" here.
Also, don't you dare show a desire for an action like coming out. Or else you're ungrateful of life and will be insulted.
I'm not saying that, but this community doesn't like it when you desire for an action that is making you feel better.
Oh and by the way, that will be coming from others that came out themselves, because that's how they are.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-24 12:19:09
“Without hope, there is no despair. There is only meaningless suffering.”
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-24 13:44:54
Meaningless suffering? What's that?
Oh I get it, everyone will die some day and it won't ever matter.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-24 14:10:42
No, it means that suffering has no meaning without hope. You'll be free of despair if you never have hope, but not the suffering, and you won't see any recourse for it.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-24 17:36:59
Yeah well it doesn't change shit for me.
Luck is luck. It'll fuck up your life.
End of story. Okay? Okay.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-24 18:02:54
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, expect nothing, and then luck can only do so much to you.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-24 20:07:55
That's what I do.
Except ''prepare for the worst.'' It's something I try, but probably fai at.
How does that even work? My mind isn't prepared for such a thing, especially when I'm putting in effort or even having a little bit of hope.
They interfere with each other...
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-24 20:40:00
Well, it's like building up a nice home on the coast and hoping to live in it until you die, but also having hurricane insurance. Even the care you take with your partner is 'preparing for the worst'. It's prevention and mitigation, evaluating what can go wrong, and how you can control those chance events. Preparing for the worst isn't a contradiction of hope, it's what it uses as its sword and shield. You protect hope by preparing for the worst. Hope without that planning is luck, but if you can prepare for the worst without losing hope, even when things go wrong you can often turn it in your favor.
OnzaZ 1 point on 2017-07-24 13:09:26
I'm not giving you false hope, I'm mentioning my circumstances which make me surprised. Also I'd not recommend it to anyone, it could be just because I am who I am. If I'm walking to a mined path and I had been fine I'd not recommend it to you either. it's up to you to take your own choices. I'm just surprised, and even sketptic that there's a mined camp to start with.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-24 13:53:49
You're not giving me false hope, but you can give them to others.
I'm surprised too in a way with my recent experiences, but that's how luck works.
Luck is so strange. Even if it's unlikely, you can live a life without any luck at all and suffer because of it.
It can also be the opposite, but just like anything else in life: The good things are the hardest to get.
Sadly learned all that trough experience.
OnzaZ 1 point on 2017-07-24 14:20:35
You have the worst luck ever as it seems from yourself.
Honestly I thought I was unlucky, born in poverty, zoo and trans. And you are the unlucky one. I sometimes think your lack of luck is mental.
But anyway, just to make it clear for anyone who is reading this, don't do it like I did, this is just a mention of circumstances, it might and it will not apply to you.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-24 17:36:06
Excuse me, but do you know my life?
As a kid I had to witness the fight between my mother and our fathers for a long time and that gave me trauma.
She's a bad mother who's had no childhood and is clearly not right in her head. She loves to bully you consistently and is also immature. Everyone notices it, even bringing me more shame to my life.
I've always had and still live my life full of fear every day. Fear of almost everything.
I hate so much things in life that I had to make a list of it.
I've never in my life eaten well. I just can't eat... I'm so damn weak.
I've been pulling all-nighters since months and haven't slept well single time. I feel sick since months.
My dreams are just so simple, yet none of them will really come true.
I have extreme depression and don't enjoy my life any more. I used to enjoy my life last year at this exact moment, but now I don't.
I also expected something for years so I put so much effort into it that I ignored everything else: Friends, school, life, etc. Just so I could have sex, yet in the end I never did. All that confidence, expectation, optimism... gone trough the roof.
I just have to see others enjoy stuff like this, while I can't. I have to see others accomplish such an easy, simple task that is easy access to happiness. And she nor I will never experience such a thing in the only life that we'll ever have. Feels great to know we'll both die without experiencing such a simple fun thing. Now I apparently am ''ungrateful'' and ''don't deserve it'' according to some silly half-brained zoos.
And I'm something worse than trans: I couldn't give a fuck less about my gender because I have no reason to, but my species.
Did you know that I'm so horribly depressed it has been eating away my attraction? I feel almost no attraction to animals any more. I barely feel anything to them any more.
All I see them as now are... just animals. Nothing special any more.
I've been forcing myself to love my dog and pretend my mind is into it. I've even been denying her requests to sex even though that's part of the things I want so much and always wanted to pleasure her.
But I just can't because I'm not a single bit into it any more. Now I have a desire for nothing in life.
All of this is because of luck.
I tried doing my best on all of these things. I swear I did.
That's why I don't have any energy left for anything else.
I don't have energy left for anything. Can't go to bed, can't care for myself, can't even love any more...
But hey, if you have a horrible life because of silly reasons, I'll never judge you, because I know that's fucking stupid on it's own and doesn't fix anything.
OnzaZ 2 points on 2017-07-24 17:59:03
I was born in a town full of dangers; appart of being born a zoo, and transgender; which (actually for the second and not the first) made my mother hated me, and my father never gave an actual shit about me.
I had to endure hunger, and people trying to kill me, I had to fight to death several times, I was tortured once, I was taken advantage of, I had to endure seeing the animals I loved as a kid being killed, I had to see animal corpses dying of starvation all the time; and the animals I rescued dying anyway, people would try to rape me, kill me, assault me, all the time because that was the life there, see a map, the main cause of death is violence; as a teenager I had to carry a knife all the time to fight for my own life, this is what you learn, rough, every week was a battle, it was them and there were you, it was their life or yours, a teenager whose parents didn't give a shit, I had family members that were killed too, and I was different so I was on the list of targets, it was a constant fight, and it was real so you better defended yourself or they'd kill you. We had to struggle to get water and food, and at the end, the army started shotting at us, the people, for no reason other than politics.
Yet I don't feel unlucky and I appreciate a lot what the world has to offer, because I know how horrible it can actually be. This is how I feel that it's a mental luck issue, because it's how I feel about being a zoo, I don't like it and feel out of luck but it's not a real issue, it's in my mind, and so yours are.
I'm sorry to say it so, and I'm sorry for being rough, but that's how it is; think how lucky you are of living in a first world safe country where you can get food on the table easily, many of us, don't have that luxury. Your problems are as big as you let them to be, I've seen people starving whining less than you.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-24 19:24:57
There's always others who have it worse than you, this doesn't change anything.
And you know, I feel way worse than you. Or that's what I think, but considering I don't even enjoy my life any more, lost most of my attraction, am suicidal and don't see much point of life any more, I think I really do. You're lucky you can at least accept it, I can't.
I also put effort in trying to accept these things, but it only left me more depressed.
If I can't appreciate what the world has given me, then that only proves my life is worse than anyone thinks, because apparently it's very easy to accept having a shitty life according to others here.
And still, there's thousands of humans who had a good life and didn't have the same problems like me.
Oh right, that's almost everyone else on this sub... and then I'm not allowed to complain because they've got it all good and effortless...
But if you really think I should be grateful, I'd gladly switch stories with you. And of course, with my mind so you'll take things extremely heavily and your life will be fucked up easily.
You know, I'd do anything for one of my dreams (and a specific one) to come true. Even if I had to go trough the worst pain. And that's fucked up, because anyone else can achieve it without any single effort, and I can't even do it with the best effort I've did in life. I shouldn't even be able to think like this...
I'd be grateful forever in my life, if I just had that one moment... that one moment for once and that's it. That's all I want and I'll be grateful of my life forever...
And still... I'm extremely unlucky compared to other humans. It's just simple as that.
[deleted] 2 points on 2017-07-24 20:51:19
[removed]
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-27 00:50:06
Luck doesn't imply only a lack of control...
It can still affect you, even if you try as hard as you can and can make a change.
And yes, I do have bad luck. I've told you so much things, so you must realize I'm so unlucky.
Not to mention worsening depression is also unlucky. I didn't choose anything.
And no, I can't explain at least one of the many reasons why I'm suicidal. You know what that one reason is very well, and we both know that can't be fixed.
I've already promised you, when she dies I'll do the same.
There's a reason why I want to lose my virginity only to her. I'm too loyal to her, it's a promise. If I did lose my virginity to another animal, I would not enjoy it because I'd always think about her and I'd feel so bad, like I have betrayed her. Makes me feel bad just thinking about it.
All I wanted is that moment I longed for years. And even with all that effort... I don't deserve it according to other zoophiles, just because they misunderstand me.
If she won't have real sex with me in her life time, then I won't either. If I use that logic, why can't it apply to death too?
Every time I stand on her paw, I stomp on my own foot. Every time it rains, I won't keep myself from getting wet because I know she doesn't do that either. When others offer me food in school, I decline it, my girl must also enjoy something.
I suffer with her.
Although... these ''rules'' I made up changed after I got more depressed. I've become more selfish and greedy more and more because I stopped doing these things more and more.
My attraction is nuked to hell. My feelings, where have they gone?
I sometimes wonder, is that one reason the only reason this all happened? Is it really?
I mean, there's many reasons, but it all started then... I can't accept that. I can't accept that I'm the only one with this problem and the fact that it is such a problem that I'm destroying both of our lives...
I can't and won't know the answer, and that bothers me. One of the thousands of reasons why I hated humans is because I'm like them. I've been a bad human myself all along.
I hated humans for so many reasons and trying to ignore looking in the mirror. But I'm evil myself that I don't even want to admit to the things I thought about...
I love her less and that is so wrong. I deserve death after this, and it may even be the best option for me or any other creature on earth.
I'd rather just die...
''I'm sorry, there were no choices left. I made up my mind, not everyone can be saved.''-Simon, Cry of Fear
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-27 02:44:02
And yes, I do have bad luck. I've told you so much things, so you must realize I'm so unlucky.
It's a matter of perspective, then, I suppose.
Not to mention worsening depression is also unlucky. I didn't choose anything.
Luck didn't decide your choice to avoid getting medication and therapy to help overcome your depression on multiple fronts. I'm confident you'll find that fulfilling your desires won't fix the kind of depression that you have. Even that form of depression isn't bad luck, it's heritable and expresses itself predictably and is easy to treat and even permanently reverse to an extent. Whether or not you let it stick around long enough to permanently ruin your life is ultimately your choice, not that of luck. :\
My attraction is nuked to hell. My feelings, where have they gone?
I've told you this before but, depression inhibits your libido and sexuality as well as your ability to function. The form of depression you have won't go away without treatment and will literally only escalate. It'll continue to degrade your attractions and sexuality until you're as good as having none at all. If you ever do get treatment, if you let it get too far along, then there's no telling if you'll come out with the same attraction. There are instances of people, particularly those in their early twenties and late teens overcoming depression and having their sexual orientation end up being turned on its head due to the depression.
If she won't have real sex with me in her life time, then I won't either. If I use that logic, why can't it apply to death too?
Takes two to have sex, but everything dies on their own. That same logic means she'd be unable to die without your death occurring, which doesn't make much sense.
I've become more selfish and greedy more and more because I stopped doing these things more and more.
The first rule of dealing with depression is "treat yourself". It isn't selfish or greedy to not punish yourself.
I can't and won't know the answer, and that bothers me. One of the thousands of reasons why I hated humans is because I'm like them. I've been a bad human myself all along.
I hated humans for so many reasons and trying to ignore looking in the mirror. But I'm evil myself that I don't even want to admit to the things I thought about...
Since we're quoting game characters, "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" - Paarthurnax, Skyrim
I love her less and that is so wrong. I deserve death after this, and it may even be the best option for me or any other creature on earth.
While this is, of course, personal to everyone, I'm of the philosophy that death is not something that anything has the right to say is deserved. Death is a consequence so severe that it simply can't be matched to any misdeed.
I'd rather just die...
Suicidal tendencies and disregard for your own life are biological mechanisms that should be read as "get help".
''I'm sorry, there were no choices left. I made up my mind, not everyone can be saved.''-Simon, Cry of Fear
The true ending of Cry of Fear sees Simon preventing himself from committing suicide and being taken to a mental hospital. He finds peace, having his life turned around for the better. The entire game was a mataphor for his book therapy and a very literal representation of his battle with depression. Simon fought like hell against it and there's a very important reason why he had to give his doctor a gun and kill carcass to survive.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-27 03:42:39
It's a matter of perspective, then, I suppose.
Isn't that with everything?
Luck didn't decide your choice to avoid getting medication and therapy to help overcome your depression on multiple fronts.
But luck made that happen...
I'm confident you'll find that fulfilling your desires won't fix the kind of depression that you have.
I don't think it'll fully heal me, but... There's some really fun sexual moments we had after that.
They're rare, but when we're both really into it I'm just really happy. Probably one of the happiest moments I can get, if not the happiest moment while being in this depression.
At that moment, I kind of ''forget'' that whole virginity thing for a second and it doesn't stop me from being happy. Because almost no matter what happens and no matter how happy I feel, there's a layer of ''I'm not happy'' somewhere in my mind.
I could have nostalgia listening to that music or playing that one game, but deep inside I still feel that depression no matter how happy I am. But when we have that lucky sexual moment, I kind of forget it.
Oh, and I've had some... things in my life. Things in the past that also made my life miserable.
I'm also extremely ashamed of it, but when I got rid of it after such a long battle, I was just so happy. I could finally be happy again.
It was a constant bother in my life and just...
I'm convinced that if this dream comes true, I'll be so happy that this depression will just straight up be disappear.
I'll even be happy if in the end I could fit, but she doesn't seem to like it and wants me stop. At least I'd know she wouldn't be interested, but sadly she is...
It just hurts me to say that because I don't want to be like that.
Say that reminds me, you say ''widening'' was a surgery at first? Do you think I can... uh... have that happen without being caught?
There are instances of people, particularly those in their early twenties and late teens overcoming depression and having their sexual orientation end up being turned on its head due to the depression.
If I'll be attracted to humans then I'm going to bash my head in until it changes or I die.
Fuck, that sounds scary.
Takes two to have sex, but everything dies on their own. That same logic means she'd be unable to die without your death occurring, which doesn't make much sense.
Already told you why. I suffer with her.
The first rule of dealing with depression is "treat yourself". It isn't selfish or greedy to not punish yourself.
But this whole thing is. Although I also do it for her, it's also about me...
What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?
And I know just the thing to overcome that evil nature.
I remember when I was less evil. That's when I didn't have this sex problem.
While this is, of course, personal to everyone, I'm of the philosophy that death is not something that anything has the right to say is deserved. Death is a consequence so severe that it simply can't be matched to any misdeed.
That's what makes all of this worse. Makes me almost cry thinking about it...
If we die a virgin, we can't experience what many could experience. It's way worse than you think.
Such a simple action that anyone can do together, and they'll have tons of fun doing it. Even if I ended up doing it, any other zoo will have way more experiences than me.
And I'd just be grateful for that moment just once... Just once and that's it...
We'll only have one life and we can't experience what is probably the easiest and best way to make someone happy and pleasure them. And like everyone else can just enjoy it whenever they want, and we couldn't even do it once in our only life.
And still, death is something that is deserved to me.
Call me strict, but if all bad humans were removed from earth... Well, that's self-explanatory.
Everything'll be good.
Suicidal tendencies and disregard for your own life are biological mechanisms that should be read as "get help".
I'm too desperate and I'm not close to accepting it.
I can't. Everyone else can, then we must do. It's that or nothing.
The true ending of Cry of Fear sees Simon preventing himself from committing suicide and being taken to a mental hospital. He finds peace, having his life turned around for the better. The entire game was a mataphor for his book therapy and a very literal representation of his battle with depression. Simon fought like hell against it and there's a very important reason why he had to give his doctor a gun and kill carcass to survive.
Didn't expect you to know, or you just Googled the fuck outta that.
Well, looks like I'm not doing that ending then. Going with the bad ones, then. ...That actually makes me feel better in a way.
Life is just a game. I know I just said that it's only worse because we only have one life and can't do such a simple thing, but...
Because I have such a big imagination, compare myself to videogame (or about a year ago, also anime) protagonists a lot and non-stop dream... I feel better.
Tell me, in what game the protagonist(s) doesn't go trough shit?
Mother 3, EarthBound, Left 4 Dead, Half-Life, Luigi's Mansion, Binding of Isaac, Silent Hill, Amnesia, Cry of Fear, and way more. Some of these games might be more childish-like, but in their mind they still go trough shit.
But that's what makes it better, because no one here can really relate to me and misunderstand me in a way. I do understand that they don't think this is that big of a deal, but it still heavily affected me. They all go trough shit like me in a similar way. I can relate to each and one of them in at least a few ways...
I've also always been more attracted to fictional animals, or at least for now.
Makes me less afraid of death and pain.
Yes... Life's just... a game. Because some day I'll be dead and non-existant myself, only to be mentioned in words and some day I'll be forgotten, as if all of it was fictional.
And honestly, that I was going to have a fun time with her was also entirely fictional in my head.
I still dream of having sex with her, even though she's right there. But all that time... I wasn't bothered by this because I was stuck in that fictional world that it was gonna happen. Only because I snapped out of it, I got dissapointed and this all happened.
I guess I've got a 2nd option, live even deeper into my own imagination? My mind's probably the strongest and weakest thing I have...
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-27 10:52:05
Say that reminds me, you say ''widening'' was a surgery at first? Do you think I can... uh... have that happen without being caught?
No, it requires actual incisions, not what you'd want.
If I'll be attracted to humans then I'm going to bash my head in until it changes or I die.
Fuck, that sounds scary.
Misanthropy is lessened when depressions goes away.
Already told you why. I suffer with her.
Consider that she doesn't suffer when she walks in the rain, and that she'd likely much rather you compensate any foot-stepping with something more pleasant for her. There is the distinct and fairly common possibility that you aren't punishing yourself for her, but rather because you want it. She doesn't comprehend those actions.
If we die a virgin, we can't experience what many could experience. It's way worse than you think.
We won't know what it's like to fight in a war, or live in a third world country, or to live through a famine either. A good experience that lasts less than 5 minutes isn't worth taking one of those things on.
Didn't expect you to know, or you just Googled the fuck outta that.
Told you before I probably gamed more than you. :P
Well, looks like I'm not doing that ending then. Going with the bad ones, then. ...That actually makes me feel better in a way.
It's still the true ending. You'd be doing the devs a disservice if you didn't pursue it. You may find that ending to be quite relevant to you too. Also Carcass represented his mental trauma, and giving the doctor the gun was basically simon saying to himself that he wanted the treatment.
Mother 3, EarthBound, Left 4 Dead, Half-Life, Luigi's Mansion, Binding of Isaac, Silent Hill, Amnesia, Cry of Fear, and way more. Some of these games might be more childish-like, but in their mind they still go trough shit.
And again, the protagonists fight like hell. They cope. They overcome. The world is restored, giygas defeated, one survivor sacrifices himself to save the others but they never give up and he did it so they had a chance to keep raining hell on the zombies, Gordon Freeman takes on impossible odds but still manages to slow down the invasion, Luigi saves his brother AND gets a sweet house out of the deal, Isaac goes on to live a normal life for the most part despite the horrors his mother threw him into time and time again, the protagonists of silent hill are either killed or corrupted by their guilt and wrath or take it as an opportunity to grow and live on(The good endings are labelled the true endings as I recall), Daniel can survive if he defeats alexander(to which he calls the ordeals in the castle his purgatory to cleanse him of his sins, and the shadow gets the orb back which is all it wanted) and is implied to be resurrected in the agrippa ending.
I guess I've got a 2nd option, live even deeper into my own imagination? My mind's probably the strongest and weakest thing I have...
Or you could overcome your own hangups about getting help. If Simon can accept mental help and turn his life around, you can too. Your decision to actively avoid the ending where he overcomes his own demons doesn't change the fact that he can and does when given the chance.
Anyway, I don't actually have the time for it, but it looks like I'll be taking psychology and counselling courses on the side for your benefit now.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-27 14:54:27
Misanthropy is lessened when depressions goes away.
And in the end I will still hate humans because I've been a misanthrope for years now.
I'm not a zoophile because I'm misanthropic, but I'm sure it stops me from being attracted to them. I actually don't worry about me having a human attraction because I know that's impossible.
I'd still dislike their personalities, I'd still have germaphobia of humans and for some reason, being attracted to humans is shameful to me.
If it's really possible that I'd be attracted to humans, well then I'd honestly rather die or my only goal would be to turn back... But luckily I won't have to do that, at least.
I won't see humans more as friends or allies. That's it.
I just don't want to lose my zoophilic attraction, even though I hate it in some kind of way. It's a part of my life now and it'll stay that way.
Consider that she doesn't suffer when she walks in the rain
But she'd be shaking of the cold and it'll itch her double coat.
I'll go trough the same fate. I'll be cold and I'll be itchy too.
she'd likely much rather you compensate any foot-stepping with something more pleasant for her.
I'm really someone who thinks revenge is necessary.
It's something I want to happen so badly. When you do something, even if it's on purpose or accidentally, revenge needs to be taken.
On purpose? You're evil. On accident? Should've used your brain. Nobody learns if they don't get punished. Just realizing your mistake isn't enough, discipline needs to be added.
Or at least... these things count for humans.
We won't know what it's like to fight in a war, or live in a third world country, or to live through a famine either. A good experience that lasts less than 5 minutes isn't worth taking one of those things on.
I'm not sure what you mean with the war and living in poverty, because that's not a good thing at all.
Even then, everyone else can have sex so easily. That's... also a problem. So much jealousy.
I'm afraid of my own mind. I just have to hold those tears back and not think about the others who can do this daily... While we'll never experience it.
It doesn't matter to me that sex is a short thing and I'm not sure why it's relevant how long it takes. It's still a godly feeling that every creature deserves to feel.
We both barely felt that feeling when I tried to insert... and that feeling is worth it even if it's 10 seconds. Man, even when she felt it she couldn't leave me to sleep.
Told you before I probably gamed more than you. :P
Yeah well it didn't fit you at all. I don't even believe you played the games I mentioned.
And again, the protagonists fight like hell. They cope. They overcome. The world is restored, giygas defeated, one survivor sacrifices himself to save the others but they never give up and he did it so they had a chance to keep raining hell on the zombies, Gordon Freeman takes on impossible odds but still manages to slow down the invasion, Luigi saves his brother AND gets a sweet house out of the deal, Isaac goes on to live a normal life for the most part despite the horrors his mother threw him into time and time again, the protagonists of silent hill are either killed or corrupted by their guilt and wrath or take it as an opportunity to grow and live on(The good endings are labelled the true endings as I recall), Daniel can survive if he defeats alexander(to which he calls the ordeals in the castle his purgatory to cleanse him of his sins, and the shadow gets the orb back which is all it wanted) and is implied to be resurrected in the agrippa ending.
And in the end, there's still some damage left in these stories. All of them would probably mentally scarred, but there's some games where the damage just can't be fixed.
Mother 3? Lucas' mother and brother are still dead. The world may be restored, but his family isn't.
Half-Life? It's story is and probably will never be finished, but the damage also there already has been done. Freeman may slow them down and may even defeat the Combine if it was finished, but in the end almost all living creatures on earth have gone extinct, including humans.
Cry of Fear? He may be ''happy'' because in the end he got help, but I bet he'd have a better life if he was not so unlucky and that hit-and-run accident never happened. I can't imagine living like he does in the end will bring him true happiness.
Point is... again, not everyone really can be saved.
That makes me think, it's not just the characters in the games, it's you, the player.
At some point someone just gives up playing a game. Why? Because it's too hard or you lost interest.
^^^^^^^^^^'
Honestly, what do you expect when she dies? This is not my suicidal thoughts or depression saying this: I'd take a bullet for her anyways.
If she dies, how do you think I will react? Especially because something like this affects me so much already. You know, a lot of humans see me as someone who just doesn't give a shit about things. IIrc I think you even did at some point, saying I wasn't sensitive.
Some specific things really hit me, so I'm really sensitive at some points. I... can't even throw that one soda can away because it has my girl's name on it.
It's junk, yet I keep it. I see it as something important.
I see unimportant things as important, then how do you think something that is actually important to me will affect me? Such as her... dying?
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-27 17:08:40
If it's really possible that I'd be attracted to humans, well then I'd honestly rather die or my only goal would be to turn back... But luckily I won't have to do that, at least.
I won't see humans more as friends or allies. That's it.
I just don't want to lose my zoophilic attraction, even though I hate it in some kind of way. It's a part of my life now and it'll stay that way.
If it's a badge of honor for you, get help and don't let it get discarded by your subconscious.
But she'd be shaking of the cold and it'll itch her double coat.
I'll go trough the same fate. I'll be cold and I'll be itchy too.
She shouldn't get cold if she has a double coat. A double coat comprises of outer guard hairs that will catch the water, and the undercoat which will keep their skin warm and dry. Can't imagine why it'd ever cause itching. Even if it did cause itching, that isn't necessarily suffering.
I'm really someone who thinks revenge is necessary.
It's something I want to happen so badly. When you do something, even if it's on purpose or accidentally, revenge needs to be taken.
On purpose? You're evil. On accident? Should've used your brain. Nobody learns if they don't get punished. Just realizing your mistake isn't enough, discipline needs to be added.
Or at least... these things count for humans.
This justifies all the backlash that you receive too, mind... which you found unjustified and ended up resisting. You gravitated toward the person that pretty much never strikes back too, so I'm not so sure you really believe this.
I'm actually quite familiar with this topic and I can say beyond a reasonable doubt that punishment is no more effective in humans than it is in other animals, which is to say, it isn't effective. Reward based reinforcement is a much better motivator... hence why wage laborers are more effective workers than slaves.
I'm not sure what you mean with the war and living in poverty, because that's not a good thing at all.
It was in response to "we can't experience what many could experience". Not all things that can be experienced are things we want to experience, and alot of times we're more fortunate for having not experienced something bad than the fortune of experiencing something good.
Even then, everyone else can have sex so easily. That's... also a problem. So much jealousy.
Hey, I'm never having it. I chose that path, though.
I'm afraid of my own mind. I just have to hold those tears back and not think about the others who can do this daily... While we'll never experience it.
It doesn't matter to me that sex is a short thing and I'm not sure why it's relevant how long it takes. It's still a godly feeling that every creature deserves to feel.
We both barely felt that feeling when I tried to insert... and that feeling is worth it even if it's 10 seconds. Man, even when she felt it she couldn't leave me to sleep.
Depression also deadens the pleasure from sex.
By alot.
Yeah well it didn't fit you at all. I don't even believe you played the games I mentioned.
One of my vices is video games, so trust me, I've played them. Amnesia: The Dark Descent is actually what got me into indie games too.
And in the end, there's still some damage left in these stories. All of them would probably mentally scarred, but there's some games where the damage just can't be fixed.
Mother 3? Lucas' mother and brother are still dead. The world may be restored, but his family isn't.
Half-Life? It's story is and probably will never be finished, but the damage also there already has been done. Freeman may slow them down and may even defeat the Combine if it was finished, but in the end almost all living creatures on earth have gone extinct, including humans.
Cry of Fear? He may be ''happy'' because in the end he got help, but I bet he'd have a better life if he was not so unlucky and that hit-and-run accident never happened. I can't imagine living like he does in the end will bring him true happiness.
Point is... again, not everyone really can be saved.
That makes me think, it's not just the characters in the games, it's you, the player.
At some point someone just gives up playing a game. Why? Because it's too hard or you lost interest.
And yet they live on, they heal what they can, and regardless of whether they'd be happier with those hardships never happening, they find happiness again, and they find new sources of happiness where others were lost. They don't let it consume them, even if it marks them. Even the deaths of family members is something you can move on from handily. I know from experience.
Honestly, what do you expect when she dies? This is not my suicidal thoughts or depression saying this: I'd take a bullet for her anyways.
If she dies, how do you think I will react? Especially because something like this affects me so much already. You know, a lot of humans see me as someone who just doesn't give a shit about things. IIrc I think you even did at some point, saying I wasn't sensitive.
Being insensitive to people is a bit different from being a sensitive person.
I see unimportant things as important, then how do you think something that is actually important to me will affect me? Such as her... dying?
I'd say you'd experience an acute stress reaction for a period of time at worst, and wouldn't do it for at least a couple weeks, if you did it at all. Either way, if she understood the situation, she wouldn't want you to do it.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-27 17:35:45
If it's a badge of honor for you, get help and don't let it get discarded by your subconscious.
I'm not doing it.
There's only one solution and if it won't work well yeah then fuck everything else.
I want my solution. I'll never accept this. This. needs. to. happen. I've tried accepting this so many times and just couldn't.
I wanted to just accept it and move on, but I really can't.
Nobody here has this problem. Of course it's only me.
Man, even the ones complaining now that they don't have animals will have sex sometime soon and we won't. That fucking pisses me off so much.
You know what? Aluzky was right. I'd definitely let someone fuck me if I could have this happen.
That's how desperate I've become.
She shouldn't get cold if she has a double coat. A double coat comprises of outer guard hairs that will catch the water, and the undercoat which will keep their skin warm and dry. Can't imagine why it'd ever cause itching. Even if it did cause itching, that isn't necessarily suffering.
She does get cold when soaked in water. She's shaking when she's covered in cold water.
And it makes sense that it itches. So has so much hair and rain always gives you an itchy feeling, especially in their faces.
Reward based reinforcement is a much better motivator... hence why wage laborers are more effective workers than slaves.
And how would that work in my situation?
Give myself a candy bar if I don't step on her paws for a week?
This justifies all the backlash that you receive too, mind... which you found unjustified and ended up resisting. You gravitated toward the person that pretty much never strikes back too, so I'm not so sure you really believe this.
I don't get it.
It was in response to "we can't experience what many could experience". Not all things that can be experienced are things we want to experience, and alot of times we're more fortunate for having not experienced something bad than the fortune of experiencing something good.
Doesn't change anything for me at all.
Hey, I'm never having it either. I chose that path, though.
You already made my point there.
And guess what? Others choose to have sex.
Looks like we won't have that option. Real fair to see literally everyone else here somehow experience the impossible...
Depression also deadens the pleasure from sex.
By alot.
From my own experience it really doesn't. Maybe my ''libido'' but I still enjoy it when I'm in the mood just as much.
I even told you that it's probably one of my happiest moments I could have, so it was even better than first.
And yet they live on, they heal what they can, and regardless of whether they'd be happier with those hardships never happening, they find happiness again, and they find new sources of happiness where others were lost. They don't let it consume them, even if it marks them. Even the deaths of family members is something you can move on from handily. I know from experience.
And looks like I don't have that power to heal myself.
Either way, if she understood the situation, she wouldn't want you to do it.
And she doesn't, so... Not to mention the fact that even if she did, she'd be dead.
I already told you, there's no reason to fulfill one's wishes after a death.
You do it for them, but if they aren't here it's just pointless.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-27 18:16:30
I'm not doing it.
There's only one solution and if it won't work well yeah then fuck everything else.
I want my solution. I'll never accept this. This. needs. to. happen. I've tried accepting this so many times and just couldn't.
I'm not saying don't try. Treating the depression will literally make the first time better, though. It'll make your sex life better in general. It'll make it better for both of you when that time comes too. It'll give you the motivation to do more stuff with her, it'll spark your feelings for her more. If not for yourself, then seek help so you can do better for her.
Perhaps this will motivate you... your form of depression can also result in psychotic episodes that can end in harming or even killing others, especially so with family members or spouses. It also impairs memory. While it isn't enough to cause them on its own, you're puting yourself in a position where you're predisposed to it.
Nobody here has this problem. Of course it's only me.
It isn't. You had a good number of people attest to their own incompatibility. We have cat zoos, now a rabbit zoo too. Fish zoos, reptile zoos... and the list goes on. They just can't do that, but you have a chance.
She does get cold when soaked in water. She's shaking when she's covered in cold water.
If you dump a bucket of water on her or something, of course that's going to penetrate deep. Light to medium rain won't reach skin, and she doesn't care nor want that you share in her 'suffering'. She'd much rather you just share a good time with her.
And it makes sense that it itches. So has so much hair and rain always gives you an itchy feeling, especially in their faces.
Their touch receptors are adapted to fur, humans not so much.
And how would that work in my situation?
Give myself a candy bar if I don't step on her paws for a week?
However way you wish. You'd probably want to share in the reward with her, in some way. Of course, dont feed her chocolate though.
I don't get it.
It was in response to "I'm really someone who thinks revenge is necessary". If you take an eye for an eye approach for things, then being mean is deserving of them being mean back.
From my own experience it really doesn't. Maybe my ''libido'' but I still enjoy it when I'm in the mood just as much.
I even told you that it's probably one of my happiest moments I could have, so it was even better than first.
Now think about that same thing but 2x or 3x more intense. That's the difference.
And looks like I don't have that power to heal myself.
You do. I've known people that were much, much more far gone than you are that got out of it and recovered.
And she doesn't, so... Not to mention the fact that even if she did, she'd be dead.
I already told you, there's no reason to fulfill one's wishes after a death.
You do it for them, but if they aren't here it's just pointless.
You aren't fulfilling her wishes by getting vengeance for her on yourself either, and that's something that she probably is aware of.
One thing to consider is that people care about what happens after their deaths. It helps them to accept the reality of it and to fear it a little bit less when there is a culture of honoring desires after death, thereby reducing their suffering near the end. Imagine being able to guarantee that your partner remains loved and cared for in the event of you dying tomorrow. You'd do it, and it'd ease the end more than you'd think.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-27 19:09:37
Treating the depression will literally make the first time better, though.
I don't care.
My goal is: Have PiV sex with her safely and with consent just once.
Nothing else attached to it, this is simple just like that.
I mean, you know that, but I don't care about my depression at that point. You know, I'd be just as happy even if I didn't enjoy it myself.
It'll make your sex life better in general.
At some point I wasn't depressed and didn't make my sex life better either.
You know, I don't even care what happens to my own sex life after this happens.
your form of depression can also result in psychotic episodes that can end in harming or even killing others, especially so with family members or spouses.
That won't happen.
Unless a genie grants me wishes if I'd be a hitman. Then yes, I definitely would.
It also impairs memory. While it isn't enough to cause them on its own, you're puting yourself in a position where you're predisposed to it.
Oh, I knew it was my depression! I've been forgetting so much and feel dumber than first.
It isn't. You had a good number of people attest to their own incompatibility. We have cat zoos, now a rabbit zoo too. Fish zoos, reptile zoos... and the list goes on. They just can't do that, but you have a chance.
Except they never expected it to happen like me. They know their animals are too small. And I'm talking about all the other dog zoos.
They don't have this problem. I have to constantly see posts about how they finally do it and realize that every other zoo here will get their moment but I fucking won't.
I was going to be that one person some day. I was 100% sure of it.
I tell you, 100% sure of it. At least you know where my optimism went. I drained all of it into that.
If you dump a bucket of water on her or something, of course that's going to penetrate deep. Light to medium rain won't reach skin, and she doesn't care nor want that you share in her 'suffering'.
But you know what country I live in right? I've worn shorts two times this summer. Two times.
Nobody really seems to notice it, but this country is colder and has ''worse'' weather than you think. It's been raining since months.
Not to mention this is the country of water and rain.
Even then, I want to ''suffer'' with her. I think it's unfair.
I don't want to treat her like how others treat animals. She's more than just an animal...
However way you wish. You'd probably want to share in the reward with her, in some way. Of course, dont feed her chocolate though.
But that was sarcastic... that's dumb.
Treating myself is just pointless. Also, I would eat that even if I didn't have to reward myself.
I crave for candy and stuff like that very fast. Sometimes I'm starving my ass off for it, and I'd say ''fuck it'' and eat it anyways.
I'll eat my rewards even though I don't ''deserve'' them yet.
It was in response to "I'm really someone who thinks revenge is necessary". If you take an eye for an eye approach for things, then being mean is deserving of them being mean back.
Makes sense, but the way a certain someone acted was really unnecessary and WAY too overboard, if you know who I'm talking about.
He holds a grudge against me for some reason. He hates me for certain reasons, but it's unfair.
For example, he'd hate me for closing a door in his face. But others do the same and he doesn't hate others for it.
If it's anything I can't stand, it's unfairness like this. Not to mention wishing something didn't happen just because I said something.
I'm being punished for ''thought crime''.
Now think about that same thing but 2x or 3x more intense. That's the difference.
What? I just told you, my experiences weren't different back then.
Also, I don't even want them to be more intense. I'll accept sex for what it feels like.
You do. I've known people that were much, much more far gone than you are that got out of it and recovered.
And I only want one solution.
You aren't fulfilling her wishes by getting vengeance for her on yourself either, and that's something that she probably is aware of.
Not when she's dead. Wait, she doesn't even notice at all.
I'm against this whole anthromorphizing of animals, she really doesn't know.
One thing to consider is that people care about what happens after their deaths. It helps them to accept the reality of it and to fear it a little bit less when there is a culture of honoring desires after death, thereby reducing their suffering near the end. Imagine being able to guarantee that your partner remains loved and cared for in the event of you dying tomorrow. You'd do it, and it'd ease the end more than you'd think.
But that doesn't change anything.
When you're dead, you can't know if your wish will come true or not after you die. Someone can promise you: ''Yes, I'll spraypaint your car green after you die.'' and it won't matter if it actually happens because you're dead, you just can't know. Well, in your last moments you ''knew'' it would happen, but in reality it didn't.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-27 22:49:09
That won't happen.
Unless a genie grants me wishes if I'd be a hitman. Then yes, I definitely would.
You'd be surprised. Thirty years of untreated and worsening emotional instability can make you extremely dangerous during an episode, and that's literally what bipolar does. It doesn't help that it also causes neurodeneration and can also harm other cognitive processes.
Oh, I knew it was my depression! I've been forgetting so much and feel dumber than first.
See above, it could end up being permanent if you don't get it treated with therapy+meds. No matter what you think you want, you don't want a neurodegenerative disorder. It can degrade any skill, any memory, anything that makes you you. Your form of depression is actually linked to early onset dementia, too. On the off chance that you don't end yourself when she dies, it'd probably be pretty dreadful to end up forgetting her in your mid forties.
Except they never expected it to happen like me. They know their animals are too small. And I'm talking about all the other dog zoos.
They don't have this problem. I have to constantly see posts about how they finally do it and realize that every other zoo here will get their moment but I fucking won't.
I was going to be that one person some day. I was 100% sure of it.
I tell you, 100% sure of it. At least you know where my optimism went. I drained all of it into that.
A number of dog zoos in that thread you made stated that they had dogs that were incompatible that normally would be, as I recall.
Even then, I want to ''suffer'' with her. I think it's unfair.
... Did you consider just getting her a coat? Choosing to 'suffer with her' isn't as good as just preventing it in the first place.
But that was sarcastic... that's dumb.
Yeah, I know it was. Still, the principle of it is there. Think bigger though. Organize expectations for yourself and try having checklists to clear for those rewards, for instance.
Treating myself is just pointless. Also, I would eat that even if I didn't have to reward myself.
I crave for candy and stuff like that very fast. Sometimes I'm starving my ass off for it, and I'd say ''fuck it'' and eat it anyways.
I'll eat my rewards even though I don't ''deserve'' them yet.
If you're the one making the purchases for those rewards, don't buy em' in advance. No temptation then. Well, less temptation. There's no such thing as chocolate not being tempting. c;
What? I just told you, my experiences weren't different back then.
Sex is different.
Also, I don't even want them to be more intense. I'll accept sex for what it feels like.
Sex feels like that 2x to 3x intensity. You'd be getting less out of it, and there's the possibility that she will too.
And I only want one solution.
You need two or three. The one literally won't fix it. You have a heritable disorder and it'll stick with you for the rest of your life, getting worse over time. You can kinda sorta avoid meds with normal depression, but what you have needs meds, therapy, and a few coping strategies.
You don't have the best home environment right now and you need to be a pillar, not just for yourself, but for her too. Whether you see it or not, living in a household among people with volatile emotions will stress her out. You can suffer that with her too, or you can try to make it a bit better for her in that regard... and it starts with you.
Not when she's dead. Wait, she doesn't even notice at all.
You'd be surprised what they notice and don't let on about. They can't just react to everything, but I wager it's a bit confusing to her, and slightly stressful.
I'm against this whole anthromorphizing of animals, she really doesn't know.
It isn't anthropomorphizing to say she notices you stomping on your own foot or showing signs of discomfort outside.
But that doesn't change anything.
When you're dead, you can't know if your wish will come true or not after you die. Someone can promise you: ''Yes, I'll spraypaint your car green after you die.'' and it won't matter if it actually happens because you're dead, you just can't know. Well, in your last moments you ''knew'' it would happen, but in reality it didn't.
It changes everything about death. If you weren't aware, a will is a legal document that allows you to control your assets in death, and asserts an obligation by the executors(the people that make sure the will is honored) to ensure that any and all reasonable stipulations are met. So, you can say "if you want my car, you need to spraypaint it green", and they'll be legally obligated to do so. And if they don't do it, you can even add a stipulation that the car be auctioned with the rest of your belongings and the money split evenly amongst your heirs, to a friend, etc. The amount of fine control you can implement through a will is actually quite impressive. So, in the end, you do know what happens because it has to follow the paths that you define in your will.
An executor violating a will in the US can require restitution be paid to the affected parties, up to criminal charges and removal and replacement(basically they'll lose their job and perhaps be put on trial if they're found acting in violation of a will or misappropriating assets). This is common legislature in Europe and Scandinavia as well, as I understand.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-27 23:31:14
A number of dog zoos in that thread you made stated that they had dogs that were incompatible that normally would be, as I recall.
Yet no one else here. My point still stands, except that it's not ''no one'' who has this problem, but almost no one.
And again, they don't have any other problems like the ones I have. Like the fact that I want my first experience to be with her and won't have sex with any other animal.
It still hurts me to know I'm so unlucky too.
... Did you consider just getting her a coat? Choosing to 'suffer with her' isn't as good as just preventing it in the first place.
Okay, ''suffering'' is not the right word, but I don't know what else to use.
I can't really put a coat on her when I'm not home and it's raining either.
If you're the one making the purchases for those rewards, don't buy em' in advance. No temptation then. Well, less temptation. There's no such thing as chocolate not being tempting. c;
Well fuck, me going to the store because I didn't step on her paws? It sounds so stupid and like a waste of time.
When I go to the store, I have to leave her alone in my small room. Can't really keep her elsewhere mostly, because she's not good with the cats. I'd rate her prey drive a 11/10...
Sex is different.
That's what I meant. It's not.
No changes in our sexual moments. Other than the fact that the more I fail at trying to insert, the more I stray away from doing it. Dissapointment hurts more every time that I'm even afraid to try again.
But things like giving and receiving oral is still something that hasn't changed and will make me feel a lot better when we're both really into it.
You'd be getting less out of it, and there's the possibility that she will too.
I don't know why she would ''get less out of it.''
It's sex, she can't enjoy it less because I enjoy it less...
Really, she doesn't notice a thing. Not to mention that when she's enjoying these acts, she's focusing on these acts. How would it be so different?
It isn't anthropomorphizing to say she notices you stomping on your own foot or showing signs of discomfort outside.
When we're outside, I apologize instead. It's not even common I do this.
It's not a big deal.
It changes everything about death. If you weren't aware, a will is a legal document that allows you to control your assets in death, and asserts an obligation by the executors(the people that make sure the will is honored) to ensure that any and all reasonable stipulations are met. So, you can say "if you want my car, you need to spraypaint it green", and they'll be legally obligated to do so. And if they don't do it, you can even add a stipulation that the car be auctioned with the rest of your belongings and the money split evenly amongst your heirs, to a friend, etc. The amount of fine control you can implement through a will is actually quite impressive. So, in the end, you do know what happens because it has to follow the paths that you define in your will.
An executor violating a will in the US can require restitution be paid to the affected parties, up to criminal charges and removal and replacement(basically they'll lose their job and perhaps be put on trial if they're found acting in violation of a will or misappropriating assets). This is common legislature in Europe and Scandinavia as well, as I understand.
But that doesn't even change anything.
She's still a dog who won't understand. Not like it matters even if she does...
You still haven't convinced me to try to get help. I'm so desperate for this.
I still want to get all the information I can get, I want to have some information on that whole widening thing, if there is more information to be found, at least.
And of course being less afraid of failure and things like that.
Just to let you know, you're far from convincing me that I need to get help.
I'm having ''thought swings'' and keep going from optimistic to pessimistic about my situation. I just hope that one technique works...
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-28 01:01:39
Yet no one else here. My point still stands, except that it's not ''no one'' who has this problem, but almost no one.
Presumably no one else here. We've got a pool of 10-20 users that post regularly, but most of our traffic stats are from users that never make a post.
And again, they don't have any other problems like the ones I have. Like the fact that I want my first experience to be with her and won't have sex with any other animal.
Just a few moments ago, you were talking about how you'd have sex with a human if it meant having sex with her after. Likely as hyperbole of course, but still.
It still hurts me to know I'm so unlucky too.
You're really tempting me to highlight my "my life was suffering" narrative, but that won't help anything if I do. You've got alot going for you, more than you think.
I can't really put a coat on her when I'm not home and it's raining either.
There are also pocket ponchos you can get. You can get a decent one for 15$, and they take seconds to put on. Even then, I'd imagine carrying around a coat for her is a small price to pay to make sure she's insulated from the elements all hours of the day.
Well fuck, me going to the store because I didn't step on her paws? It sounds so stupid and like a waste of time.
You seem rather scattered today... I said "Think bigger though. Organize expectations for yourself and try having checklists to clear for those rewards, for instance". I don't think that requires clarification, but if it does, I can provide some examples.
When I go to the store, I have to leave her alone in my small room. Can't really keep her elsewhere mostly, because she's not good with the cats. I'd rate her prey drive a 11/10...
10-20 minutes every week or so isn't the end of the world for her.
That's what I meant. It's not.
No changes in our sexual moments. Other than the fact that the more I fail at trying to insert, the more I stray away from doing it. Dissapointment hurts more every time that I'm even afraid to try again.
But things like giving and receiving oral is still something that hasn't changed and will make me feel a lot better when we're both really into it.
PiV intercourse has extremely distinct effects on the body compared to oral, anal, or digital sexual contact, and that's what I was talking about in this instance.
I don't know why she would ''get less out of it.''
It's sex, she can't enjoy it less because I enjoy it less...
Oh dear. Sex is, in humans, a mutually enjoyed experience as a rule. The enjoyment of one party is usually contingent upon the enjoyment of the other. It's similar to how her enthusiasm for sex is linked to yours.
Really, she doesn't notice a thing. Not to mention that when she's enjoying these acts, she's focusing on these acts. How would it be so different?
It would just be more enjoyable for her with that not there.
When we're outside, I apologize instead. It's not even common I do this.
It's not a big deal.
Big deal or not, it shouldn't happen at all. Making sure that they're okay and comforting them is the best service to give them in that case. Mistakes happen, and punishing yourself for them probably isn't helping your mental state.
But that doesn't even change anything.
She's still a dog who won't understand. Not like it matters even if she does...
It would if she had no reason to believe you'd honor her wishes.
You still haven't convinced me to try to get help. I'm so desperate for this.
...
And of course being less afraid of failure and things like that.
Just to let you know, you're far from convincing me that I need to get help.
Then how about this: As your condition worsens, so too does your ability to solve the issue. It's eroding your mind and mental faculties, your ability to think critically, and by your own testament, your general intelligence. All those things will make you more likely to harm her on accident because, say, you couldn't weed out bad advice. It also makes you less likely to find a novel and effective solution on your own. Your fear of failure is in part because of the depression too; it drains you of your confidence as much as it does your mind and life. And what if you have a psychosis and end up attempting suicide while your partner's still alive and well? Even if you don't care about honoring peoples' wishes after death, I don't think you'd like how they'd take care of her versus how you do. It's not likely that it would happen, but do you want to take the chance that you might condemn her to a life deprived of something that she enjoys so much, or perhaps even a life of neglect?
I'm having ''thought swings'' and keep going from optimistic to pessimistic about my situation. I just hope that one technique works...
That's what manic depression does, and it won't stop with what you want to do. The feelings and thoughts you have during your lows will only become more intense over time if left untreated. You should know, too, that the 'highs' or 'optimistic' periods of your depression should reflect normal brain activity. It's entirely likely that those periods of optimism represent your true, or at least less adulterated thoughts.
[deleted] 1 point on 2017-07-28 12:12:57
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caikgoch 1 point on 2017-07-28 12:52:19
Depression (clinical, long term) and bipolar disorders are caused by chemical/hormonal defects in the brain. These are more likely to be hereditary than any other cause. In third world countries the solution is likely to be Darwinian. First world countries give them opportunities to improve themselves but that takes time and effort.
There are many arguments around help vs prevention. We even fought a World War over it (eugenics was popular among the Nazis). Meanwhile, the best thinking comes down to "Let he who is without . . . ."
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-28 13:00:53
Just a few moments ago, you were talking about how you'd have sex with a human if it meant having sex with her after. Likely as hyperbole of course, but still.
I really don't want to get into details here, but let's just say that it's not losing your virginity.
Let's just... not talk about it. Point is that I am that desperate.
You've got alot going for you, more than you think.
And the real problem is that I don't feel like it,.
There are also pocket ponchos you can get. You can get a decent one for 15$, and they take seconds to put on. Even then, I'd imagine carrying around a coat for her is a small price to pay to make sure she's insulated from the elements all hours of the day.
I'll take a look and order one some time soon, then.
You seem rather scattered today...
I've been feeling like that for months now.
I can't seem to read or comprehend some things properly lately.
Well, it's not like I'm interested in ''rewarding'' myself for preventing something like that.
It's a waste of time to me.
PiV intercourse has extremely distinct effects on the body compared to oral, anal, or digital sexual contact, and that's what I was talking about in this instance.
Well as I already said I honestly don't care.
Even though I'm desperate for it myself, I don't care if I enjoy it or not. I just want it to happen, that's all.
And of course, that at least she'd be getting something out of it. I just want the experience. And there's no doubt I'd at least enjoy it a little bit, and if my pleasure matters than that's enough.
I'll just be grateful that it happened in that case...
Oh dear. Sex is, in humans, a mutually enjoyed experience as a rule. The enjoyment of one party is usually contingent upon the enjoyment of the other. It's similar to how her enthusiasm for sex is linked to yours.
It would just be more enjoyable for her with that not there.
Sorry, but I don't believe any of that. I think a lot of humans here, including you, sometimes have an unrealistic view of animals.
Thinking animals can give consent to sex is one thing, but that's where the line ends for me. I do think that animals are ''smarter'' than the common human thinks, but that's just really where it goes too far for me.
With my own experiences, she doesn't care.
When she's really in the mood, she's extremely forceful. I'd almost call it rape.
I can try to push her off or even get mad at her, but she'll still try to force me into it for a few minutes.
I've also never seen any evidence that animals do indeed care about others during sex. When I see animals have sex together, I don't see it either.
And one time, even if I liked it, I was giving her oral and she put her paws on my head, she pushed my head into her and started humping. It was probably one of the best sexual experiences I've had, but what if I didn't like it? This first was a surprise to me she did this, so I tried to resist at first, but couldn't.
In the end, animals are different than humans. It's no surprise to me they don't really care.
Big deal or not, it shouldn't happen at all.
We're both extremely clumsy.
It would if she had no reason to believe you'd honor her wishes.
There's such a thing as pretending.
Then how about this: As your condition worsens, so too does your ability to solve the issue. It's eroding your mind and mental faculties, your ability to think critically, and by your own testament, your general intelligence. All those things will make you more likely to harm her on accident because, say, you couldn't weed out bad advice. It also makes you less likely to find a novel and effective solution on your own. Your fear of failure is in part because of the depression too; it drains you of your confidence as much as it does your mind and life.
None of this holds value to me. I'm already messed up.
And honestly, things like fear of failure always has been there.
And what if you have a psychosis and end up attempting suicide while your partner's still alive and well?
I'll probably keep myself from doing that.
I don't think you'd like how they'd take care of her versus how you do.
And why would that be?
If she survives and is happy it's all good. May be she'll even get a better owner.
Chances are high that would happen, actually.
but do you want to take the chance that you might condemn her to a life deprived of something that she enjoys so much, or perhaps even a life of neglect?
I think she'll be in good hands anyways. And also that she'll easily forget me because she'll just have another loving owner.
You should know, too, that the 'highs' or 'optimistic' periods of your depression should reflect normal brain activity. It's entirely likely that those periods of optimism represent your true, or at least less adulterated thoughts.
Or may be that I've sticked all my optimism in that so much, and later have only been met with extreme dissapointment?
It's like seeing a certain human for the first time and holds a gun against you. You wouldn't want to meet them again because you've had a bad past experience with them.
Weird comparison, but I'm too tired to care.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-28 13:49:24
Well, it's not like I'm interested in ''rewarding'' myself for preventing something like that.
It's a waste of time to me.
Allow me to provide the examples I promised. You have a checklist, let's say it states to avoid foot stepping too, but also demands that you keep on track with walking her, grooming her, baths, maybe some housekeeping tasks or parts of your own ideal routine thrown in too. The reward would be encouraging a great deal more than just avoiding pain on her part.
With my own experiences, she doesn't care.
When she's really in the mood, she's extremely forceful. I'd almost call it rape.
···
In the end, animals are different than humans. It's no surprise to me they don't really care.
Rape in the animal kingdom decreases reproductive fitness. It's selected against. This isn't a view, it's reasoned and based on evidence. It simply isn't going to be rewarded the same, because it can result in injury or death when it happens.
There's such a thing as pretending.
You... aren't the best at pretending. But on that note, keep in mind that she can keep secrets of her own. She won't always noticably show how your condition affects her.
None of this holds value to me. I'm already messed up.
And honestly, things like fear of failure always has been there.
They've all always been there, but you're adding bricks to the wall you're trying to climb over. It's counterproductive. And, you aren't so old that you can't heal from it. Every day you don't seek treatment is that much less healing that can be had.
I'll probably keep myself from doing that.
Cry of Fear was a psychosis, by the way. You might hallucinate a thousand dead dogs, every one your partner. It would be one of the milder ones I've heard of, too.
And why would that be?
No telling what would happen to her if your family voices their suspicions about what you did with her. Even a no kill shelter would be quite tempted, I wager. Her getting fixed is a likelihood too, if her newly unattended sexuality proves too great a burden for caretakers. Quite a painful process for an older dog. Slow recovery too, and high risk of infection.
I think she'll be in good hands anyways. And also that she'll easily forget me because she'll just have another loving owner.
Of course, there is also the possibility that she has an emotional dependence on you that you haven't realized. I've seen a bereaved dog starve to death next to a full food bowl because of it. It's an agonizing way to go, and markedly more common in larger dogs. I could go on and on about the possibilities. The best ones see you staying alive and recovering.
Or may be that I've sticked all my optimism in that so much, and later have only been met with extreme dissapointment?
No, you have a heritable disorder and it would have happened regardless. I'd like to note that everyone has a bias toward saying their own actions are reasoned rather than caused by emotions or traits that are beyond their control. I believe it's part of the actor-observer bias.
SCP_2547 1 point on 2017-07-28 14:35:33
Allow me to provide the examples I promised. You have a checklist, let's say it states to avoid foot stepping too, but also demands that you keep on track with walking her, grooming her, baths, maybe some housekeeping tasks or parts of your own ideal routine thrown in too. The reward would be encouraging a great deal more than just avoiding pain on her part.
Except I don't have the energy or will to do this at all.
I'm someone who thinks ''Fuck it.'' a lot in life.
Also, sometime in my life I tried doing this with something else. Rewarding myself really doesn't work, I promise you.
Rape in the animal kingdom decreases reproductive fitness. It's selected against. This isn't a view, it's reasoned and based on evidence. It simply isn't going to be rewarded the same, because it can result in injury or death when it happens.
Yet my girl doesn't seem to care nor do I see animals ''care'' about the other in sex.
I believe what you said, but it doesn't prove anything for me.
Cry of Fear was a psychosis, by the way. You might hallucinate a thousand dead dogs, every one your partner. It would be one of the milder ones I've heard of, too.
The only hallucination I've ever had was that I was going to have sex with her.
No telling what would happen to her if your family voices their suspicions about what you did with her.
If my mom wouldn't be in a hospital if I'm dead, especially because of suicide, then she would take care of her.
She's... an ''animal lover'' and has like what, 100 cats? Few birds and fish, and is jealous that I'm going to the school I'm going to.
Alright, she may have killed so many birds, fish and cats but never killed a dog.
She probably knows anyways. Or she at least doubts it what I did.
''What do you keep doing in the shack with her? What if the neighbours hear you?''
''If the police catches you, just say we are breeding her.''
Action will only be taken if she directly catches me, as she said. Oh and by the way, if that happens you won't ever see me again.
Her getting fixed is a likelihood too, if her newly unattended sexuality proves too great a burden for caretakers. Quite a painful process for an older dog. Slow recovery too, and high risk of infection.
Well at least she won't be asking for sex any more.
Oh and hey, according to all those so called ''animal experts'' and vast majority of humanity spaying and neutering is perfectly fine.
Of course, there is also the possibility that she has an emotional dependence on you that you haven't realized. I've seen a bereaved dog starve to death next to a full food bowl because of it. It's an agonizing way to go, and markedly more common in larger dogs.
I know she won't be like that.
She can easily live a new life without me for sure. Even a better one, I think.
Even then, she's quite dumb for a dog, or just any animal. I doubt she'd care.
First moments without me would be scary and weird, but after that she'd be alright.
No, you have a heritable disorder and it would have happened regardless. I'd like to note that everyone has a bias toward saying their own actions are reasoned rather than caused by emotions or traits that are beyond their control. I believe it's part of the actor-observer bias.
I guess it doesn't matter even if that was true.
But still, I'm choosing my own way. If it doesn't work then well too bad then. Everything has lost value to me anyways.
Simple as that.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 3 points on 2017-07-24 12:07:18
Some places are like that. I'd hazard a guess and say where I live now is too. In your case, it may well be your personality that leaves them complicit to it. Some people are indubitably recieived better than others.
My point is, is tolerance really growing? could it be that the newer generation would be freer.
Not necessarily freer, but more observant of the sciences to be certain, and more scientifically literate by some margin. There is a certain skepticism by the younger generation toward their predecessors, and while of course there are many that would still disapprove, expecting more non-zoos to be tolerant or even supportive of it as time goes on isn't terribly far fetched... especially during this time of growing sexual acceptance tempered and shielded by the sciences.
OnzaZ 2 points on 2017-07-24 13:26:55
Yea indeed, it maybe could be the type of friends that I tend to get that might be more accepting. But who knows. But the fact that 100% of them have been accepting is just confusing to me considering that it's said that most people will not be accepting according to the standard ideas.
30-30amator equae 3 points on 2017-07-24 12:45:13
It´s fine I´m allowed to disagree...how generous of you. ;)
Look, coming out is a double edged sword; while it can have a rather huge effect on your self esteem, it also can terribly backfire, even years after. And what you also don´t seem to realise: there´s a huge difference between telling someone you "love an animal", but it´s an entirely different cup of tea when being walked in during the act or something like that. What you also neglect quite a lot is the fact that those close to you naturally have the tendency towards clemency and permissiveness. I too am blessed with tolerant friends I came out to, but you better never underestimate what Nietzsche said: "In individuals, insanity is rare, in groups it´s the rule." "The society" as a group is far from becoming more tolerant of zoophilia; every other day, another country outlaws the practice of bestiality, disapproval percentages of zoophilia are in the high nineties and we´re lightyears away from any breakthrough, even a minor one.
To "come out or not come out" is a personal question everyone has to ask him-/herself and making the decision according to the immediate circumstances is highly recommended. A Christian fundamentalist´s son better not telling poppy that he´s interested in getting laid with a dog...but A Libertarian´s son might just do that and get away with it without any negative consequences. It depends; it really depends on your personal situation, your country´s attitude towards sexuality in general etc. pp.
Although I too say that society isn´t as hostile and rejctive of zoophilia as many like to depict it, I can only point out all the negative aspects of coming out. In the end, you are freely sharing sensitive private information about you and even if you are blessed with living in a country without laws against sex with animals, you should always keep in mind how outsiders are treated in general. It doesn´t take a law to make your life miserable, but it also isn´t impossible to lead a rather pleasant zoo life even though there are laws against "it". Coming out is like bluffing in poker, you make your bet, hoping that things will turn out your way, but there´s no guarantee you´ll win...and if you lose, you lose in triple digit percentages.
Even I, who has come out to quite a bunch of close friends and even to my family that is very supportive of me, wouldn´t recommend coming out. The uplifting effect doing the "real talk" with friends once had has worn out and now, I don´t see any reason to do so anymore. I know what I am and don´t feel urged to share this knowledge with anyone anymore, not even close friends who do not already know. I´m too old and too experienced in zoophilia to still cling to this, I don´t need any reassurement from my friends anymore. I rarely speak about it with my friends, even though I could do so without any negative effects...Coming out will surely improve your self esteem a bit, but it won´t change your "zoo life" in the slightest little bit. In retrospective, I see coming out to friends as a "bad deal"...with the mentality I have now, as an heterosexual equine exclusive guy in his fourties, I wouldn´t come out to a single person except my family if given the change to redo my life. It just isn´t that important to me anymore.
Everyone can and has to decide on coming out for him-/herself.But if anyone decides pro coming out, he/she shouldn´t be too surprised when it backfires...and complaining about the "unjust" society (that is, btw, largely traumatised by "zoo confessions") shouldn´t be a thing when this happens. What anyone with the tendency towards coming out should keep in mind is that friendships can break and your once best friend can become your number one enemy within minutes. Before you take risks, learn to calculate them well....
OnzaZ 6 points on 2017-07-24 14:13:00
Here comes the mighty 30-30 >.>
I know the risks, for certain; the thing is that for some reason it has always gone too well, I honestly would have never took the risk if it wasn't because my mother found out, and I got caught like I told you doing something highly sexual and they were just fine with it.
But I have read your post, even your equine circles know it and you have a mare partner; I honestly can't think it could be better; and your family is supportive of you, my family just doesn't give a shit; they are just ok with it, and I think it's fine so, I guess some don't even know it's more my cousins who do. I'm honestly quite surprised of how you've managed to get things done and honestly envious but I suppose you get to do things your way via hard work, I bet so.
But anyway it's not a huge risk given that I don't really see them anymore, they don't even know where I currently live, they are just around in social networks; other than the guy that is now my closest friend in this place, but we honestly don't talk much about it anyway. It used to be more before I told him as he used to tease me sending me horse stuff. So when I told him he wasn't surprised. But considering that being a furry is something of the public domain that might explain how things get there.
To me it doesn't really help my self steem, I suppose I've had enough coming out, my main thing is that it allows me to speak without having to hold myself if there's something about it to talk. Like eg when discussing relationships or what not or when making sexual jokes. It takes effort out. Honestly what I want about zoo is a partner, acceptance I've felt I've had enough, I'm still not sure because honestly it still makes me uncomfortable to this day, even when I should be used to already given it's been so since kid, and it's not like if I hadn't had close experiences to demonstrate me that it's my thing, but fuck. oh well...
Battlecropscat kisser extraordinaire 2 points on 2017-07-24 14:23:15
I have a friend who is also out to quite a few people (friends and men she's been in relationships with, not family or co-workers/employers) and she hasn't had a negative reaction either. I guess it really is just luck. Did you say in one of your previous posts that people have correctly guessed you're zoo? If I'm remembering right. That's really interesting to me, since attraction to animals is usually not on peoples' radar.
If you're comfortable sharing a bit more, can I ask how your mother found out you were zoo as a kid? But also of course if you don't want to go into it for privacy's sake or whatever other reason that's okay too. I figured out I was zoo when I was pretty young, but I grew up in a very religious family so I knew to hide it from my parents and not mention it.
OnzaZ 1 point on 2017-07-24 15:22:38
Yes, they correctly guess; I suppose is because they learn I'm a furry because it's no secret that, they ask me about it, and then they start teasing me about it, it usually goes that way. Not everyone takes that way but it tends to at times.
Well it was pretty shitty, but I suppose she kinda always known; the only thing I ever heard from her, is that "I know how you feel about the fucking cat, I've always known it, it arouses you...", she was pissed then, but I suppose she's found because I had rejected every sort of porn magazines she'd give me but had a shiton of animals magazines and drawings I was obsessed with (mostly big cats). She never talked about it afterwards, but I'm pretty sure she's aware of it, and she was before it; I also overheard once that they said that I was looking at horse pictures while masturbating, fucking holes in the wall.
My cousins figured it out later, in part because my cousin figured I was downloading a shiton of horse and big cat pictures through his computer as I didn't have one, they were non-explicit, but he guessed it, "aren't you sure you aren't a fucking zoophile", he said to which I froze, anyway that spread like wildfire and in a moment everyone that lived in that house knew. And later, maybe a month, he'd be the same person who found me with the weird aroused tomcat who approached me which opportunity I took, but he was very bitey so nothing too close; I wasn't so sure of what happened myself to be frank, or why that cat approached me like that, it was quite sudden, but I really enjoyed it, and so did the cat.
So yeah it was pretty much between espionage and common sense of people, plus it seems I wasn't the first zoophile in the family, as apparently one of my uncles was, but he was murdered later, for other reasons, I never had the chance to talk to him.
Swibblestein 2 points on 2017-07-24 17:54:43
When I did my interviews of zoophiles a while back, I found a surprising amount were out to at least some friends or family, and that many of them actually had a positive experience in doing so. So your experience actually isn't surprising to me at all.
It depends a lot on the particular people you are talking to, and your area, and so on. I can guarantee you that in some areas you would get a much worse reception, and you could probably somewhat accurately predict such areas by looking at the sort of reception that LGBT individuals get when coming out of the closet.
OnzaZ 2 points on 2017-07-24 18:13:48
Yeah I agree, but it's mostly the young people that seem to be a constant, in fact, my mother was the one that reacted worse; but she had years to digest it, and it's the only person (old generation) that reacted about it, others just ignored it, and it was only the youngest ones that acked it.
caikgoch 2 points on 2017-07-24 20:06:36
One of the advantages of growing old is perspective. You can actually witness social changes happening.
When I was young, rolling queers was a common pass time among fundamentalist youth. Sodomy was a felony.
Recently, I had a conversation with a young fundamentalist friend. He was disturbed that an openly gay couple had showed up for a family member's wedding. On his own he came to the conclusion that you could hate the sin and still love the sinner. He welcomed them without prejudice.
From my experience, we have far more to fear from New Age radicals and money raising "rescues". People that have real life experience with animals know how often "things happen".
OnzaZ 2 points on 2017-07-25 06:20:12
I am fairly young. Actually, but yea I agree with you, my parents generation was very intolerant of lgbtq, and I mean very... my own generation couldn't care less or what you are into, it's such a radical change honestly.
Indeed new age radicals are less radicaley. If that's even a word.
TokenHorseGuy 2 points on 2017-07-25 22:59:25
As I said elsewhere, I think that's really at the heart of this whole topic... where you live and who you know, and the values you grow up around.
What bothers me a little - or more like casually frustrates me - is that more and more people seem so immersed in the culture of tolerance that they think it is the norm. I guess more power to you, maybe I need to move to where you are and hang out with your friends. But around here, being a nice guy does not trump being a mentally-ill animal abuser, imminently destined to start sexually assaulting some other vulnerable group... or whatever this area considers zoophiles to be.
[deleted] 2 points on 2017-07-26 06:27:14
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30-30amator equae 1 point on 2017-07-25 10:53:51
Pfffft, that´s such a twisted perspective...social changes happening? No, just the hated scapegoat groups shifting from one subgroup to another. I also don´t know how your statement fits into a world that experiences the resurrection of hard right wing conservativism (Duterte in the Philippines, PiS party in poland, Orban in Hungary, Le Pen and her Front National in France, the AfD in Germany, the tea party nutjobs in your US republican party etc. pp.); fact is, once the hate energy is set free when muslims won´t be the scarecrow anymore, the hatred won´t magically disappear, it will just find another target to unload onto...and take a guess who this target will be: outcasts.
Maybe your fundamentalist friend just didn´t want to ruin his family member´s wedding and kept quiet solely for that reason instead of making a scene? Thought about that?
I consider your post wishful thinking at best; especially your last sentence. I used to work among hundereds of "people that have real life experiences with animals" and not even one knows "how often things happen", hearing about zoophilia and bestiality always caught them by surprise. I honestly think you have moved to an alternative universe in which fucking animals is "just a common thing", you have fully swallowed the porn agenda and actually believe in what you´re saying here...
I exactly know what you´ll gonna reply when I point out the many countries just recently banning any sex with animals..."New Age radicals and money raising rescues are to blame"...but I have to ask you straightforward: If "social changes (are) happening", why are laws against "zoophilia" introduced every other week in another country, with approval ratings for the ban in the eighties and nineties percentages?
caikgoch 2 points on 2017-07-25 12:15:33
When I speak of "people that have real life experiences with animals" I'm not talking about urbanites that play at dressage on weekends. I'm talking about farmers and ranchers that live with animals.
Old cowboy joke:
Cowboy #1, "I'm so hungry I could eat a horse!"
Cowboy #2, "I'm so horny I could fuck a horse!"
Cowboy #3. "I'm so hard I could satisfy a horse!"
Re politics, let me explain to you how it works. You have to noisy few on one hand and the lazy many on the other. The noisy few control the money and the media. They will make the rules mostly by reacting to things that excite them. The lazy many will just coast along until they reach a certain level of irritation then they will rise and vote, overriding the noisy few.
This is what just happened to the LGBQ community. They went from felony offense to gay marriage in one generation. The new anti Zoo laws are as much a reaction to that as anything. The noisy few are fighting a rear guard action against a change they don't like.
BTW, your life will be much calmer if you learn how to recognize and ignore propaganda.
30-30amator equae 0 points on 2017-07-27 18:35:52
I don´t think I need some anonymous guy from Beastforum to explain to me how politics work...in case you have missed the info, I´m not a little kid , but in my mid fourties. Also I think you are completely simplifying (like most others who believe in the BF agenda) here...those so called "noisy few" are just what your narrowed attention lets through your consciousness filters. The "noisy few" INITIATE laws against bestiality, but the silent majority is what makes these laws, what installs them unwithspoken. As I said: wishful thinking at best.
And: `Murica isn´t the only country in the world. Just in case you didn´t notice, but other countries greatly differ from yours in all kinds of ways, such as attitude towards sexuality in general, openness to unusual sexualities, etc...
Yeah, my life actually got a lot calmer once I understood that people like you are nothing more than propagandists, too...and from what you´ve contributed in here since you arrived from BF just leaves me with one suggestion: go back to BF, your propaganda fits better there than here...
P.S.: Stop comparing zoophilia to homosexuality in any way. And would you pleeeeasse accept that for the acceptance of homosexuality, AIDS/HIV played a role that was many times more important than any "teaching the public" actions...
We zoophiles have no AIDS/HIV-esque illness that puts suffering individuals of our community in the limelight, we´re also facing a problem that the LGBTQwhatever never, NEVER experienced, namely that of impossible vocal consent. Homosexuals CAN go see a police officer when they´re raped, now guess who can´t...
And one last, admittedly personal question that came to my mind...you don´t have to answer, but doing so I´d appreciate.
So: Why are you here and also in Silverwolf´s Zoowritersguild? Have you been diagnosed with a terminal illness and trying to pull off a "George Willard" stunt by flooding any "zoo forum" you can rethrieve the address of with your propaganda? Something like "Before I die, I´ll open the world´s eyes!", that kind of drama queen stuff? Just wondering...
caikgoch 2 points on 2017-07-27 20:00:22
Can you say "ad hominem"?
I passed the "mid fourties (sic)" 20 odd years ago. I have actually participated in the political process and held minor office. I believe that gives me a small advantage in discussing political matters.
Re that "admittedly personal question", I had been more active than I am now for many years. For the last couple I have spent a lot of time in hospital and AFK. At this time I have lots of spare time (can't work awaiting another surgery) so I spend it on the net (in the A/C).
I am by nature a "fixer". I solve problems compulsively. My best thought on the problem of Zoo acceptance is simple. Educate the youth before they get in trouble and the public perception will improve. At the least I will save some animals a lot of pain.
I will explain the fallacy in your interpretation of US Constitutional law. There is no such thing as "gay rights" or "black rights" or any other kind of group rights. There is only "human rights". Lawrence v Texas merely affirmed that no government should violate human rights without a good and sufficient reason and that "gay" was not a reason.
I have the same rights as str8 and gay humans. My property is not a party to any legal interaction I have with the state until such time as someone can demonstrate that a measurable harm has taken place. I have heard that the law is similar in Germany. I would like to see that enforced the same way that Lawrence was enforced. Notice that "consent" has nothing to do with it.
AmoreBestiaPro-zoophile, non-zoophile. 1 point on 2017-07-25 14:40:15
If "social changes (are) happening", why are laws against "zoophilia" introduced every other week in another country, with approval ratings for the ban in the eighties and nineties percentages?
Real talk, I've never been polled for this stuff. Polling is flawed in that they really don't have even sampling d/t how they perform them. "Oh, you're calling me with this survey? Well I only use email and text" "Oh, you're texting me? This'll take forever with my flip phone, no thanks!" "A survey in the mail? What is this, the dark ages?" etcetera etcetera. There are a finite number of ways to securely poll people, but at the end of the day, there's some group of people left out that they're going to be terrible at accounting for. Could be that the most supportive demographic is too young to be eligible, too. We default to saying the margin of error is +/-5%, but it's really something we don't know, from issue to issue.
A great example, too, is the presidential polling in the US. Clinton had a 98% chance of winning according to pre-election polls, but, well, you know how that turned out.
RainsReign 2 points on 2017-07-24 23:11:02
my close family and my friends know. They are all cool with it. Occasionally my mom will poke fun at it when I say things "oh wow what a pretty dog", responding with "you think all dogs are pretty" :p
OnzaZ 1 point on 2017-07-25 06:14:09
:D
the_egoldstein 1 point on 2017-07-25 01:03:26
My experiences of coming out were largely neutral, no real bad reactions.
Give this was a couple decades ago, but the gist is the still the same.
I think for most people it's something they don't understand and if not otherwise directed, they're happy to just ignore it, but all it takes is for one person to make you their personal crusade and tune of the song changes dramatically.
I tend to encourage not coming out because once the smoke is out, it's nearly impossible to put it back. If things go sour, there's a lot that can go horribly awry.
OnzaZ 1 point on 2017-07-25 06:22:39
Ofc it's not to be recommended to anyone, however it's also hard to extort anyone for something pretty much everyone else knows. So there is that at least. Police won't do shit without proof and then you can go for defamation.
However that's a troubled way, if you can keep it a secret, alright. To me honestly, only one person knows in my new place, so it's pretty much hidden.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 2 points on 2017-07-25 01:44:27
I personally kinda think that regardless of what people say and believe is unacceptable, they'll act differently when they're directly confronted with it. Most people are pretty non-confrontational by default, especially when it comes to friends and family they want to keep. I see it all the time with other things like sexual orientation, political opinions, kink, and even nasty shit like criminal history and pedophilia.
It's easy to be theoretically against something, but when it becomes personal and humanized, it gets harder. When a zero-tolerance policy on something suddenly has consequences, be it making a situation uncomfortable or losing a valuable friend, it's harder to keep enforcing it. A lot of people respond with denial, by making an exception, softening their opinion, or even changing their position.
TokenHorseGuy 1 point on 2017-07-25 22:41:44
Of course that will be true for some people. But the experience of a lot of other people is that their family/friends directly confronted with it will freak out, even if (especially if?) they are generally very loving.
It isn't EASY to be against something when it becomes personal, but that doesn't stop people from their feelings or opinions. If anything, it just makes a bad situation all the more hurtful and awkward, as they feel terrible about what they did wrong, pursue the need to get the person to seek help for their mental illness, etc.
I'm really happy for those who live around really open-minded people and open-minded communities, so much so that they assume it's the norm, but this REALLY is not a universal truth, or even majority truth, from what I've seen and experienced.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 1 point on 2017-07-26 01:10:44
Yeah it's not going to be the experience of everyone, but it is very much something that happens, and seems to happen frequently. I can't make an estimate about how often this happens in regards to zoophilia and I'm not going to go collecting data anytime soon. This is less about what is definitely going to happen and more about why this happens.
I don't think this is really the same as true acceptance and it doesn't have anything to do with being open-minded. This is just people taking the path of least resistance. It's the easy thing to do, it doesn't require commitment to fracturing social bonds or dealing with the fallout, it doesn't even require thinking critically about their position. The only thing it requires them to do is not say anything.
Because it doesn't have anything to do with real acceptance, that also doesn't mean that they won't do anything negative, but it'll be things that require less effort and are more subtle. Not talking to someone when it's avoidable, avoiding artwork they put out, dropping passive-aggressive jabs about it, etc.
ckgjkjj6 1 point on 2017-08-01 00:49:16
...To be honest, I agree with you when it comes to not wanting to hide these personal things a lot. I would really like to be able to openly talk about this, but what I honestly can't believe is how well accepted you were in your enviroment and how people even support you. I don't know if it has something to do with the place you live or something else, but I'm 100% sure people around me would freak out and think I'm a rapist, because that's what I see everyone believe when they think about zoophilic people.
I don't mean any offense but if I had to bet, I'd say people accept you more because you are a woman (from your post it looks like you are a woman and not a man). Why I think this? well, a lot of people think women can't rape, so they assume there's not animal cruelty in that, but I haven't seen any normal person at all assuming a man can have sex with a female animal with consent/no rape.
I would like to ask you what you think about what I'm saying. Do you think people would react the same if you were a male and liked to have intercourse with female animals?
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You're just really lucky. Seriously, it is.
I haven't met another zoophile even. I'm even convinced I won't meet one. But I guess all I can hope is I don't.
A lot of humans suspect me of being a zoophile, and I don't like their attitude towards it. Also, this "tolerance" is others just not giving a shit about animals or anything.
The few who accepted it claimed they just didn't care about what happens. In my opinion that's hardly tolerance, it's just being careless.
Although it's quite pointless to say, I too have noticed that there's less antis, I jist don't think it means anything. An anti-zoo that witchhunted apologized to me, in a certain place they don't seem to mind it, a friend had seen a picture and said he didn't care about it.
But hey, eventually a bad roll will happen. I'm not going to get blinded with optimism and blindly follow it. Always keep these bad experiences from coming out in mind. Ugh, this is one of the reasons why I hate optimism.
When YOU are lucky, you tell everyone else about it and give them false hope, only to leave them dissapointed some day.
You know what? You go ahead, just don't convince anyone else to do it.
Your anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much to us. And realistically, it shouldn't to you either.
"You don't NEED to come out. You don't die because of it!"
That's not the whole sentence, but it's one we got from a very good "friend" here.
Also, don't you dare show a desire for an action like coming out. Or else you're ungrateful of life and will be insulted.
I'm not saying that, but this community doesn't like it when you desire for an action that is making you feel better.
Oh and by the way, that will be coming from others that came out themselves, because that's how they are.
“Without hope, there is no despair. There is only meaningless suffering.”
Meaningless suffering? What's that?
Oh I get it, everyone will die some day and it won't ever matter.
No, it means that suffering has no meaning without hope. You'll be free of despair if you never have hope, but not the suffering, and you won't see any recourse for it.
Yeah well it doesn't change shit for me.
Luck is luck. It'll fuck up your life.
End of story. Okay? Okay.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, expect nothing, and then luck can only do so much to you.
That's what I do.
Except ''prepare for the worst.'' It's something I try, but probably fai at.
How does that even work? My mind isn't prepared for such a thing, especially when I'm putting in effort or even having a little bit of hope.
They interfere with each other...
Well, it's like building up a nice home on the coast and hoping to live in it until you die, but also having hurricane insurance. Even the care you take with your partner is 'preparing for the worst'. It's prevention and mitigation, evaluating what can go wrong, and how you can control those chance events. Preparing for the worst isn't a contradiction of hope, it's what it uses as its sword and shield. You protect hope by preparing for the worst. Hope without that planning is luck, but if you can prepare for the worst without losing hope, even when things go wrong you can often turn it in your favor.
I'm not giving you false hope, I'm mentioning my circumstances which make me surprised. Also I'd not recommend it to anyone, it could be just because I am who I am. If I'm walking to a mined path and I had been fine I'd not recommend it to you either. it's up to you to take your own choices. I'm just surprised, and even sketptic that there's a mined camp to start with.
You're not giving me false hope, but you can give them to others.
I'm surprised too in a way with my recent experiences, but that's how luck works.
Luck is so strange. Even if it's unlikely, you can live a life without any luck at all and suffer because of it.
It can also be the opposite, but just like anything else in life: The good things are the hardest to get.
Sadly learned all that trough experience.
You have the worst luck ever as it seems from yourself. Honestly I thought I was unlucky, born in poverty, zoo and trans. And you are the unlucky one. I sometimes think your lack of luck is mental.
But anyway, just to make it clear for anyone who is reading this, don't do it like I did, this is just a mention of circumstances, it might and it will not apply to you.
Excuse me, but do you know my life?
As a kid I had to witness the fight between my mother and our fathers for a long time and that gave me trauma.
She's a bad mother who's had no childhood and is clearly not right in her head. She loves to bully you consistently and is also immature. Everyone notices it, even bringing me more shame to my life.
I've always had and still live my life full of fear every day. Fear of almost everything.
I hate so much things in life that I had to make a list of it.
I've never in my life eaten well. I just can't eat... I'm so damn weak.
I've been pulling all-nighters since months and haven't slept well single time. I feel sick since months.
My dreams are just so simple, yet none of them will really come true.
I have extreme depression and don't enjoy my life any more. I used to enjoy my life last year at this exact moment, but now I don't.
I also expected something for years so I put so much effort into it that I ignored everything else: Friends, school, life, etc. Just so I could have sex, yet in the end I never did. All that confidence, expectation, optimism... gone trough the roof.
I just have to see others enjoy stuff like this, while I can't. I have to see others accomplish such an easy, simple task that is easy access to happiness. And she nor I will never experience such a thing in the only life that we'll ever have. Feels great to know we'll both die without experiencing such a simple fun thing. Now I apparently am ''ungrateful'' and ''don't deserve it'' according to some silly half-brained zoos.
And I'm something worse than trans: I couldn't give a fuck less about my gender because I have no reason to, but my species.
Did you know that I'm so horribly depressed it has been eating away my attraction? I feel almost no attraction to animals any more. I barely feel anything to them any more.
All I see them as now are... just animals. Nothing special any more.
I've been forcing myself to love my dog and pretend my mind is into it. I've even been denying her requests to sex even though that's part of the things I want so much and always wanted to pleasure her.
But I just can't because I'm not a single bit into it any more. Now I have a desire for nothing in life.
All of this is because of luck.
I tried doing my best on all of these things. I swear I did.
That's why I don't have any energy left for anything else.
I don't have energy left for anything. Can't go to bed, can't care for myself, can't even love any more...
But hey, if you have a horrible life because of silly reasons, I'll never judge you, because I know that's fucking stupid on it's own and doesn't fix anything.
I was born in a town full of dangers; appart of being born a zoo, and transgender; which (actually for the second and not the first) made my mother hated me, and my father never gave an actual shit about me.
I had to endure hunger, and people trying to kill me, I had to fight to death several times, I was tortured once, I was taken advantage of, I had to endure seeing the animals I loved as a kid being killed, I had to see animal corpses dying of starvation all the time; and the animals I rescued dying anyway, people would try to rape me, kill me, assault me, all the time because that was the life there, see a map, the main cause of death is violence; as a teenager I had to carry a knife all the time to fight for my own life, this is what you learn, rough, every week was a battle, it was them and there were you, it was their life or yours, a teenager whose parents didn't give a shit, I had family members that were killed too, and I was different so I was on the list of targets, it was a constant fight, and it was real so you better defended yourself or they'd kill you. We had to struggle to get water and food, and at the end, the army started shotting at us, the people, for no reason other than politics.
Yet I don't feel unlucky and I appreciate a lot what the world has to offer, because I know how horrible it can actually be. This is how I feel that it's a mental luck issue, because it's how I feel about being a zoo, I don't like it and feel out of luck but it's not a real issue, it's in my mind, and so yours are.
I'm sorry to say it so, and I'm sorry for being rough, but that's how it is; think how lucky you are of living in a first world safe country where you can get food on the table easily, many of us, don't have that luxury. Your problems are as big as you let them to be, I've seen people starving whining less than you.
There's always others who have it worse than you, this doesn't change anything.
And you know, I feel way worse than you. Or that's what I think, but considering I don't even enjoy my life any more, lost most of my attraction, am suicidal and don't see much point of life any more, I think I really do. You're lucky you can at least accept it, I can't.
I also put effort in trying to accept these things, but it only left me more depressed.
If I can't appreciate what the world has given me, then that only proves my life is worse than anyone thinks, because apparently it's very easy to accept having a shitty life according to others here.
And still, there's thousands of humans who had a good life and didn't have the same problems like me.
Oh right, that's almost everyone else on this sub... and then I'm not allowed to complain because they've got it all good and effortless...
But if you really think I should be grateful, I'd gladly switch stories with you. And of course, with my mind so you'll take things extremely heavily and your life will be fucked up easily.
You know, I'd do anything for one of my dreams (and a specific one) to come true. Even if I had to go trough the worst pain. And that's fucked up, because anyone else can achieve it without any single effort, and I can't even do it with the best effort I've did in life. I shouldn't even be able to think like this...
I'd be grateful forever in my life, if I just had that one moment... that one moment for once and that's it. That's all I want and I'll be grateful of my life forever...
And still... I'm extremely unlucky compared to other humans. It's just simple as that.
[removed]
Luck doesn't imply only a lack of control...
It can still affect you, even if you try as hard as you can and can make a change.
And yes, I do have bad luck. I've told you so much things, so you must realize I'm so unlucky.
Not to mention worsening depression is also unlucky. I didn't choose anything.
And no, I can't explain at least one of the many reasons why I'm suicidal. You know what that one reason is very well, and we both know that can't be fixed.
I've already promised you, when she dies I'll do the same.
There's a reason why I want to lose my virginity only to her. I'm too loyal to her, it's a promise. If I did lose my virginity to another animal, I would not enjoy it because I'd always think about her and I'd feel so bad, like I have betrayed her. Makes me feel bad just thinking about it.
All I wanted is that moment I longed for years. And even with all that effort... I don't deserve it according to other zoophiles, just because they misunderstand me.
If she won't have real sex with me in her life time, then I won't either. If I use that logic, why can't it apply to death too?
Every time I stand on her paw, I stomp on my own foot. Every time it rains, I won't keep myself from getting wet because I know she doesn't do that either. When others offer me food in school, I decline it, my girl must also enjoy something.
I suffer with her.
Although... these ''rules'' I made up changed after I got more depressed. I've become more selfish and greedy more and more because I stopped doing these things more and more.
My attraction is nuked to hell. My feelings, where have they gone?
I sometimes wonder, is that one reason the only reason this all happened? Is it really?
I mean, there's many reasons, but it all started then... I can't accept that. I can't accept that I'm the only one with this problem and the fact that it is such a problem that I'm destroying both of our lives...
I can't and won't know the answer, and that bothers me. One of the thousands of reasons why I hated humans is because I'm like them. I've been a bad human myself all along.
I hated humans for so many reasons and trying to ignore looking in the mirror. But I'm evil myself that I don't even want to admit to the things I thought about...
I love her less and that is so wrong. I deserve death after this, and it may even be the best option for me or any other creature on earth.
I'd rather just die...
''I'm sorry, there were no choices left. I made up my mind, not everyone can be saved.''-Simon, Cry of Fear
It's a matter of perspective, then, I suppose.
Luck didn't decide your choice to avoid getting medication and therapy to help overcome your depression on multiple fronts. I'm confident you'll find that fulfilling your desires won't fix the kind of depression that you have. Even that form of depression isn't bad luck, it's heritable and expresses itself predictably and is easy to treat and even permanently reverse to an extent. Whether or not you let it stick around long enough to permanently ruin your life is ultimately your choice, not that of luck. :\
I've told you this before but, depression inhibits your libido and sexuality as well as your ability to function. The form of depression you have won't go away without treatment and will literally only escalate. It'll continue to degrade your attractions and sexuality until you're as good as having none at all. If you ever do get treatment, if you let it get too far along, then there's no telling if you'll come out with the same attraction. There are instances of people, particularly those in their early twenties and late teens overcoming depression and having their sexual orientation end up being turned on its head due to the depression.
Takes two to have sex, but everything dies on their own. That same logic means she'd be unable to die without your death occurring, which doesn't make much sense.
The first rule of dealing with depression is "treat yourself". It isn't selfish or greedy to not punish yourself.
Since we're quoting game characters, "What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" - Paarthurnax, Skyrim
While this is, of course, personal to everyone, I'm of the philosophy that death is not something that anything has the right to say is deserved. Death is a consequence so severe that it simply can't be matched to any misdeed.
Suicidal tendencies and disregard for your own life are biological mechanisms that should be read as "get help".
The true ending of Cry of Fear sees Simon preventing himself from committing suicide and being taken to a mental hospital. He finds peace, having his life turned around for the better. The entire game was a mataphor for his book therapy and a very literal representation of his battle with depression. Simon fought like hell against it and there's a very important reason why he had to give his doctor a gun and kill carcass to survive.
Isn't that with everything?
But luck made that happen...
I don't think it'll fully heal me, but... There's some really fun sexual moments we had after that.
They're rare, but when we're both really into it I'm just really happy. Probably one of the happiest moments I can get, if not the happiest moment while being in this depression.
At that moment, I kind of ''forget'' that whole virginity thing for a second and it doesn't stop me from being happy. Because almost no matter what happens and no matter how happy I feel, there's a layer of ''I'm not happy'' somewhere in my mind.
I could have nostalgia listening to that music or playing that one game, but deep inside I still feel that depression no matter how happy I am. But when we have that lucky sexual moment, I kind of forget it.
Oh, and I've had some... things in my life. Things in the past that also made my life miserable.
I'm also extremely ashamed of it, but when I got rid of it after such a long battle, I was just so happy. I could finally be happy again.
It was a constant bother in my life and just...
I'm convinced that if this dream comes true, I'll be so happy that this depression will just straight up be disappear.
I'll even be happy if in the end I could fit, but she doesn't seem to like it and wants me stop. At least I'd know she wouldn't be interested, but sadly she is...
It just hurts me to say that because I don't want to be like that.
Say that reminds me, you say ''widening'' was a surgery at first? Do you think I can... uh... have that happen without being caught?
If I'll be attracted to humans then I'm going to bash my head in until it changes or I die.
Fuck, that sounds scary.
Already told you why. I suffer with her.
But this whole thing is. Although I also do it for her, it's also about me...
And I know just the thing to overcome that evil nature.
I remember when I was less evil. That's when I didn't have this sex problem.
That's what makes all of this worse. Makes me almost cry thinking about it...
If we die a virgin, we can't experience what many could experience. It's way worse than you think.
Such a simple action that anyone can do together, and they'll have tons of fun doing it. Even if I ended up doing it, any other zoo will have way more experiences than me.
And I'd just be grateful for that moment just once... Just once and that's it...
We'll only have one life and we can't experience what is probably the easiest and best way to make someone happy and pleasure them. And like everyone else can just enjoy it whenever they want, and we couldn't even do it once in our only life.
And still, death is something that is deserved to me.
Call me strict, but if all bad humans were removed from earth... Well, that's self-explanatory.
Everything'll be good.
I'm too desperate and I'm not close to accepting it.
I can't. Everyone else can, then we must do. It's that or nothing.
Didn't expect you to know, or you just Googled the fuck outta that.
Well, looks like I'm not doing that ending then. Going with the bad ones, then. ...That actually makes me feel better in a way.
Life is just a game. I know I just said that it's only worse because we only have one life and can't do such a simple thing, but...
Because I have such a big imagination, compare myself to videogame (or about a year ago, also anime) protagonists a lot and non-stop dream... I feel better.
Tell me, in what game the protagonist(s) doesn't go trough shit?
Mother 3, EarthBound, Left 4 Dead, Half-Life, Luigi's Mansion, Binding of Isaac, Silent Hill, Amnesia, Cry of Fear, and way more. Some of these games might be more childish-like, but in their mind they still go trough shit.
But that's what makes it better, because no one here can really relate to me and misunderstand me in a way. I do understand that they don't think this is that big of a deal, but it still heavily affected me. They all go trough shit like me in a similar way. I can relate to each and one of them in at least a few ways...
I've also always been more attracted to fictional animals, or at least for now.
Makes me less afraid of death and pain.
Yes... Life's just... a game. Because some day I'll be dead and non-existant myself, only to be mentioned in words and some day I'll be forgotten, as if all of it was fictional.
And honestly, that I was going to have a fun time with her was also entirely fictional in my head.
I still dream of having sex with her, even though she's right there. But all that time... I wasn't bothered by this because I was stuck in that fictional world that it was gonna happen. Only because I snapped out of it, I got dissapointed and this all happened.
I guess I've got a 2nd option, live even deeper into my own imagination? My mind's probably the strongest and weakest thing I have...
No, it requires actual incisions, not what you'd want.
Misanthropy is lessened when depressions goes away.
Consider that she doesn't suffer when she walks in the rain, and that she'd likely much rather you compensate any foot-stepping with something more pleasant for her. There is the distinct and fairly common possibility that you aren't punishing yourself for her, but rather because you want it. She doesn't comprehend those actions.
We won't know what it's like to fight in a war, or live in a third world country, or to live through a famine either. A good experience that lasts less than 5 minutes isn't worth taking one of those things on.
Told you before I probably gamed more than you. :P
It's still the true ending. You'd be doing the devs a disservice if you didn't pursue it. You may find that ending to be quite relevant to you too. Also Carcass represented his mental trauma, and giving the doctor the gun was basically simon saying to himself that he wanted the treatment.
And again, the protagonists fight like hell. They cope. They overcome. The world is restored, giygas defeated, one survivor sacrifices himself to save the others but they never give up and he did it so they had a chance to keep raining hell on the zombies, Gordon Freeman takes on impossible odds but still manages to slow down the invasion, Luigi saves his brother AND gets a sweet house out of the deal, Isaac goes on to live a normal life for the most part despite the horrors his mother threw him into time and time again, the protagonists of silent hill are either killed or corrupted by their guilt and wrath or take it as an opportunity to grow and live on(The good endings are labelled the true endings as I recall), Daniel can survive if he defeats alexander(to which he calls the ordeals in the castle his purgatory to cleanse him of his sins, and the shadow gets the orb back which is all it wanted) and is implied to be resurrected in the agrippa ending.
Or you could overcome your own hangups about getting help. If Simon can accept mental help and turn his life around, you can too. Your decision to actively avoid the ending where he overcomes his own demons doesn't change the fact that he can and does when given the chance.
Anyway, I don't actually have the time for it, but it looks like I'll be taking psychology and counselling courses on the side for your benefit now.
And in the end I will still hate humans because I've been a misanthrope for years now.
I'm not a zoophile because I'm misanthropic, but I'm sure it stops me from being attracted to them. I actually don't worry about me having a human attraction because I know that's impossible.
I'd still dislike their personalities, I'd still have germaphobia of humans and for some reason, being attracted to humans is shameful to me.
If it's really possible that I'd be attracted to humans, well then I'd honestly rather die or my only goal would be to turn back... But luckily I won't have to do that, at least.
I won't see humans more as friends or allies. That's it.
I just don't want to lose my zoophilic attraction, even though I hate it in some kind of way. It's a part of my life now and it'll stay that way.
But she'd be shaking of the cold and it'll itch her double coat.
I'll go trough the same fate. I'll be cold and I'll be itchy too.
I'm really someone who thinks revenge is necessary.
It's something I want to happen so badly. When you do something, even if it's on purpose or accidentally, revenge needs to be taken.
On purpose? You're evil. On accident? Should've used your brain. Nobody learns if they don't get punished. Just realizing your mistake isn't enough, discipline needs to be added.
Or at least... these things count for humans.
I'm not sure what you mean with the war and living in poverty, because that's not a good thing at all.
Even then, everyone else can have sex so easily. That's... also a problem. So much jealousy.
I'm afraid of my own mind. I just have to hold those tears back and not think about the others who can do this daily... While we'll never experience it.
It doesn't matter to me that sex is a short thing and I'm not sure why it's relevant how long it takes. It's still a godly feeling that every creature deserves to feel.
We both barely felt that feeling when I tried to insert... and that feeling is worth it even if it's 10 seconds. Man, even when she felt it she couldn't leave me to sleep.
Yeah well it didn't fit you at all. I don't even believe you played the games I mentioned.
And in the end, there's still some damage left in these stories. All of them would probably mentally scarred, but there's some games where the damage just can't be fixed.
Mother 3? Lucas' mother and brother are still dead. The world may be restored, but his family isn't.
Half-Life? It's story is and probably will never be finished, but the damage also there already has been done. Freeman may slow them down and may even defeat the Combine if it was finished, but in the end almost all living creatures on earth have gone extinct, including humans.
Cry of Fear? He may be ''happy'' because in the end he got help, but I bet he'd have a better life if he was not so unlucky and that hit-and-run accident never happened. I can't imagine living like he does in the end will bring him true happiness.
Point is... again, not everyone really can be saved.
That makes me think, it's not just the characters in the games, it's you, the player.
At some point someone just gives up playing a game. Why? Because it's too hard or you lost interest.
^^^^^^^^^^'
Honestly, what do you expect when she dies? This is not my suicidal thoughts or depression saying this: I'd take a bullet for her anyways.
If she dies, how do you think I will react? Especially because something like this affects me so much already. You know, a lot of humans see me as someone who just doesn't give a shit about things. IIrc I think you even did at some point, saying I wasn't sensitive.
Some specific things really hit me, so I'm really sensitive at some points. I... can't even throw that one soda can away because it has my girl's name on it.
It's junk, yet I keep it. I see it as something important.
I see unimportant things as important, then how do you think something that is actually important to me will affect me? Such as her... dying?
If it's a badge of honor for you, get help and don't let it get discarded by your subconscious.
She shouldn't get cold if she has a double coat. A double coat comprises of outer guard hairs that will catch the water, and the undercoat which will keep their skin warm and dry. Can't imagine why it'd ever cause itching. Even if it did cause itching, that isn't necessarily suffering.
This justifies all the backlash that you receive too, mind... which you found unjustified and ended up resisting. You gravitated toward the person that pretty much never strikes back too, so I'm not so sure you really believe this.
I'm actually quite familiar with this topic and I can say beyond a reasonable doubt that punishment is no more effective in humans than it is in other animals, which is to say, it isn't effective. Reward based reinforcement is a much better motivator... hence why wage laborers are more effective workers than slaves.
It was in response to "we can't experience what many could experience". Not all things that can be experienced are things we want to experience, and alot of times we're more fortunate for having not experienced something bad than the fortune of experiencing something good.
Hey, I'm never having it. I chose that path, though.
Depression also deadens the pleasure from sex.
By alot.
One of my vices is video games, so trust me, I've played them. Amnesia: The Dark Descent is actually what got me into indie games too.
And yet they live on, they heal what they can, and regardless of whether they'd be happier with those hardships never happening, they find happiness again, and they find new sources of happiness where others were lost. They don't let it consume them, even if it marks them. Even the deaths of family members is something you can move on from handily. I know from experience.
Being insensitive to people is a bit different from being a sensitive person.
I'd say you'd experience an acute stress reaction for a period of time at worst, and wouldn't do it for at least a couple weeks, if you did it at all. Either way, if she understood the situation, she wouldn't want you to do it.
I'm not doing it.
There's only one solution and if it won't work well yeah then fuck everything else.
I want my solution. I'll never accept this. This. needs. to. happen. I've tried accepting this so many times and just couldn't.
I wanted to just accept it and move on, but I really can't.
Nobody here has this problem. Of course it's only me.
Man, even the ones complaining now that they don't have animals will have sex sometime soon and we won't. That fucking pisses me off so much.
You know what? Aluzky was right. I'd definitely let someone fuck me if I could have this happen.
That's how desperate I've become.
She does get cold when soaked in water. She's shaking when she's covered in cold water.
And it makes sense that it itches. So has so much hair and rain always gives you an itchy feeling, especially in their faces.
And how would that work in my situation?
Give myself a candy bar if I don't step on her paws for a week?
I don't get it.
Doesn't change anything for me at all.
You already made my point there.
And guess what? Others choose to have sex.
Looks like we won't have that option. Real fair to see literally everyone else here somehow experience the impossible...
From my own experience it really doesn't. Maybe my ''libido'' but I still enjoy it when I'm in the mood just as much.
I even told you that it's probably one of my happiest moments I could have, so it was even better than first.
And looks like I don't have that power to heal myself.
And she doesn't, so... Not to mention the fact that even if she did, she'd be dead.
I already told you, there's no reason to fulfill one's wishes after a death.
You do it for them, but if they aren't here it's just pointless.
I'm not saying don't try. Treating the depression will literally make the first time better, though. It'll make your sex life better in general. It'll make it better for both of you when that time comes too. It'll give you the motivation to do more stuff with her, it'll spark your feelings for her more. If not for yourself, then seek help so you can do better for her.
Perhaps this will motivate you... your form of depression can also result in psychotic episodes that can end in harming or even killing others, especially so with family members or spouses. It also impairs memory. While it isn't enough to cause them on its own, you're puting yourself in a position where you're predisposed to it.
It isn't. You had a good number of people attest to their own incompatibility. We have cat zoos, now a rabbit zoo too. Fish zoos, reptile zoos... and the list goes on. They just can't do that, but you have a chance.
If you dump a bucket of water on her or something, of course that's going to penetrate deep. Light to medium rain won't reach skin, and she doesn't care nor want that you share in her 'suffering'. She'd much rather you just share a good time with her.
Their touch receptors are adapted to fur, humans not so much.
However way you wish. You'd probably want to share in the reward with her, in some way. Of course, dont feed her chocolate though.
It was in response to "I'm really someone who thinks revenge is necessary". If you take an eye for an eye approach for things, then being mean is deserving of them being mean back.
Now think about that same thing but 2x or 3x more intense. That's the difference.
You do. I've known people that were much, much more far gone than you are that got out of it and recovered.
You aren't fulfilling her wishes by getting vengeance for her on yourself either, and that's something that she probably is aware of.
One thing to consider is that people care about what happens after their deaths. It helps them to accept the reality of it and to fear it a little bit less when there is a culture of honoring desires after death, thereby reducing their suffering near the end. Imagine being able to guarantee that your partner remains loved and cared for in the event of you dying tomorrow. You'd do it, and it'd ease the end more than you'd think.
I don't care.
My goal is: Have PiV sex with her safely and with consent just once.
Nothing else attached to it, this is simple just like that.
I mean, you know that, but I don't care about my depression at that point. You know, I'd be just as happy even if I didn't enjoy it myself.
At some point I wasn't depressed and didn't make my sex life better either.
You know, I don't even care what happens to my own sex life after this happens.
That won't happen.
Unless a genie grants me wishes if I'd be a hitman. Then yes, I definitely would.
Oh, I knew it was my depression! I've been forgetting so much and feel dumber than first.
Except they never expected it to happen like me. They know their animals are too small. And I'm talking about all the other dog zoos.
They don't have this problem. I have to constantly see posts about how they finally do it and realize that every other zoo here will get their moment but I fucking won't.
I was going to be that one person some day. I was 100% sure of it.
I tell you, 100% sure of it. At least you know where my optimism went. I drained all of it into that.
But you know what country I live in right? I've worn shorts two times this summer. Two times.
Nobody really seems to notice it, but this country is colder and has ''worse'' weather than you think. It's been raining since months.
Not to mention this is the country of water and rain.
Even then, I want to ''suffer'' with her. I think it's unfair.
I don't want to treat her like how others treat animals. She's more than just an animal...
But that was sarcastic... that's dumb.
Treating myself is just pointless. Also, I would eat that even if I didn't have to reward myself.
I crave for candy and stuff like that very fast. Sometimes I'm starving my ass off for it, and I'd say ''fuck it'' and eat it anyways.
I'll eat my rewards even though I don't ''deserve'' them yet.
Makes sense, but the way a certain someone acted was really unnecessary and WAY too overboard, if you know who I'm talking about.
He holds a grudge against me for some reason. He hates me for certain reasons, but it's unfair.
For example, he'd hate me for closing a door in his face. But others do the same and he doesn't hate others for it.
If it's anything I can't stand, it's unfairness like this. Not to mention wishing something didn't happen just because I said something.
I'm being punished for ''thought crime''.
What? I just told you, my experiences weren't different back then.
Also, I don't even want them to be more intense. I'll accept sex for what it feels like.
And I only want one solution.
Not when she's dead. Wait, she doesn't even notice at all.
I'm against this whole anthromorphizing of animals, she really doesn't know.
But that doesn't change anything.
When you're dead, you can't know if your wish will come true or not after you die. Someone can promise you: ''Yes, I'll spraypaint your car green after you die.'' and it won't matter if it actually happens because you're dead, you just can't know. Well, in your last moments you ''knew'' it would happen, but in reality it didn't.
You'd be surprised. Thirty years of untreated and worsening emotional instability can make you extremely dangerous during an episode, and that's literally what bipolar does. It doesn't help that it also causes neurodeneration and can also harm other cognitive processes.
See above, it could end up being permanent if you don't get it treated with therapy+meds. No matter what you think you want, you don't want a neurodegenerative disorder. It can degrade any skill, any memory, anything that makes you you. Your form of depression is actually linked to early onset dementia, too. On the off chance that you don't end yourself when she dies, it'd probably be pretty dreadful to end up forgetting her in your mid forties.
A number of dog zoos in that thread you made stated that they had dogs that were incompatible that normally would be, as I recall.
... Did you consider just getting her a coat? Choosing to 'suffer with her' isn't as good as just preventing it in the first place.
Yeah, I know it was. Still, the principle of it is there. Think bigger though. Organize expectations for yourself and try having checklists to clear for those rewards, for instance.
If you're the one making the purchases for those rewards, don't buy em' in advance. No temptation then. Well, less temptation. There's no such thing as chocolate not being tempting. c;
Sex is different.
Sex feels like that 2x to 3x intensity. You'd be getting less out of it, and there's the possibility that she will too.
You need two or three. The one literally won't fix it. You have a heritable disorder and it'll stick with you for the rest of your life, getting worse over time. You can kinda sorta avoid meds with normal depression, but what you have needs meds, therapy, and a few coping strategies.
You don't have the best home environment right now and you need to be a pillar, not just for yourself, but for her too. Whether you see it or not, living in a household among people with volatile emotions will stress her out. You can suffer that with her too, or you can try to make it a bit better for her in that regard... and it starts with you.
You'd be surprised what they notice and don't let on about. They can't just react to everything, but I wager it's a bit confusing to her, and slightly stressful.
It isn't anthropomorphizing to say she notices you stomping on your own foot or showing signs of discomfort outside.
It changes everything about death. If you weren't aware, a will is a legal document that allows you to control your assets in death, and asserts an obligation by the executors(the people that make sure the will is honored) to ensure that any and all reasonable stipulations are met. So, you can say "if you want my car, you need to spraypaint it green", and they'll be legally obligated to do so. And if they don't do it, you can even add a stipulation that the car be auctioned with the rest of your belongings and the money split evenly amongst your heirs, to a friend, etc. The amount of fine control you can implement through a will is actually quite impressive. So, in the end, you do know what happens because it has to follow the paths that you define in your will.
An executor violating a will in the US can require restitution be paid to the affected parties, up to criminal charges and removal and replacement(basically they'll lose their job and perhaps be put on trial if they're found acting in violation of a will or misappropriating assets). This is common legislature in Europe and Scandinavia as well, as I understand.
Yet no one else here. My point still stands, except that it's not ''no one'' who has this problem, but almost no one.
And again, they don't have any other problems like the ones I have. Like the fact that I want my first experience to be with her and won't have sex with any other animal.
It still hurts me to know I'm so unlucky too.
Okay, ''suffering'' is not the right word, but I don't know what else to use.
I can't really put a coat on her when I'm not home and it's raining either.
Well fuck, me going to the store because I didn't step on her paws? It sounds so stupid and like a waste of time.
When I go to the store, I have to leave her alone in my small room. Can't really keep her elsewhere mostly, because she's not good with the cats. I'd rate her prey drive a 11/10...
That's what I meant. It's not.
No changes in our sexual moments. Other than the fact that the more I fail at trying to insert, the more I stray away from doing it. Dissapointment hurts more every time that I'm even afraid to try again.
But things like giving and receiving oral is still something that hasn't changed and will make me feel a lot better when we're both really into it.
I don't know why she would ''get less out of it.''
It's sex, she can't enjoy it less because I enjoy it less...
Really, she doesn't notice a thing. Not to mention that when she's enjoying these acts, she's focusing on these acts. How would it be so different?
When we're outside, I apologize instead. It's not even common I do this.
It's not a big deal.
But that doesn't even change anything.
She's still a dog who won't understand. Not like it matters even if she does...
You still haven't convinced me to try to get help. I'm so desperate for this.
I still want to get all the information I can get, I want to have some information on that whole widening thing, if there is more information to be found, at least.
And of course being less afraid of failure and things like that.
Just to let you know, you're far from convincing me that I need to get help.
I'm having ''thought swings'' and keep going from optimistic to pessimistic about my situation. I just hope that one technique works...
Presumably no one else here. We've got a pool of 10-20 users that post regularly, but most of our traffic stats are from users that never make a post.
Just a few moments ago, you were talking about how you'd have sex with a human if it meant having sex with her after. Likely as hyperbole of course, but still.
You're really tempting me to highlight my "my life was suffering" narrative, but that won't help anything if I do. You've got alot going for you, more than you think.
There are also pocket ponchos you can get. You can get a decent one for 15$, and they take seconds to put on. Even then, I'd imagine carrying around a coat for her is a small price to pay to make sure she's insulated from the elements all hours of the day.
You seem rather scattered today... I said "Think bigger though. Organize expectations for yourself and try having checklists to clear for those rewards, for instance". I don't think that requires clarification, but if it does, I can provide some examples.
10-20 minutes every week or so isn't the end of the world for her.
PiV intercourse has extremely distinct effects on the body compared to oral, anal, or digital sexual contact, and that's what I was talking about in this instance.
Oh dear. Sex is, in humans, a mutually enjoyed experience as a rule. The enjoyment of one party is usually contingent upon the enjoyment of the other. It's similar to how her enthusiasm for sex is linked to yours.
It would just be more enjoyable for her with that not there.
Big deal or not, it shouldn't happen at all. Making sure that they're okay and comforting them is the best service to give them in that case. Mistakes happen, and punishing yourself for them probably isn't helping your mental state.
It would if she had no reason to believe you'd honor her wishes.
Then how about this: As your condition worsens, so too does your ability to solve the issue. It's eroding your mind and mental faculties, your ability to think critically, and by your own testament, your general intelligence. All those things will make you more likely to harm her on accident because, say, you couldn't weed out bad advice. It also makes you less likely to find a novel and effective solution on your own. Your fear of failure is in part because of the depression too; it drains you of your confidence as much as it does your mind and life. And what if you have a psychosis and end up attempting suicide while your partner's still alive and well? Even if you don't care about honoring peoples' wishes after death, I don't think you'd like how they'd take care of her versus how you do. It's not likely that it would happen, but do you want to take the chance that you might condemn her to a life deprived of something that she enjoys so much, or perhaps even a life of neglect?
That's what manic depression does, and it won't stop with what you want to do. The feelings and thoughts you have during your lows will only become more intense over time if left untreated. You should know, too, that the 'highs' or 'optimistic' periods of your depression should reflect normal brain activity. It's entirely likely that those periods of optimism represent your true, or at least less adulterated thoughts.
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Depression (clinical, long term) and bipolar disorders are caused by chemical/hormonal defects in the brain. These are more likely to be hereditary than any other cause. In third world countries the solution is likely to be Darwinian. First world countries give them opportunities to improve themselves but that takes time and effort.
There are many arguments around help vs prevention. We even fought a World War over it (eugenics was popular among the Nazis). Meanwhile, the best thinking comes down to "Let he who is without . . . ."
I really don't want to get into details here, but let's just say that it's not losing your virginity.
Let's just... not talk about it. Point is that I am that desperate.
And the real problem is that I don't feel like it,.
I'll take a look and order one some time soon, then.
I've been feeling like that for months now.
I can't seem to read or comprehend some things properly lately.
Well, it's not like I'm interested in ''rewarding'' myself for preventing something like that.
It's a waste of time to me.
Well as I already said I honestly don't care.
Even though I'm desperate for it myself, I don't care if I enjoy it or not. I just want it to happen, that's all.
And of course, that at least she'd be getting something out of it. I just want the experience. And there's no doubt I'd at least enjoy it a little bit, and if my pleasure matters than that's enough.
I'll just be grateful that it happened in that case...
Sorry, but I don't believe any of that. I think a lot of humans here, including you, sometimes have an unrealistic view of animals.
Thinking animals can give consent to sex is one thing, but that's where the line ends for me. I do think that animals are ''smarter'' than the common human thinks, but that's just really where it goes too far for me.
With my own experiences, she doesn't care.
When she's really in the mood, she's extremely forceful. I'd almost call it rape.
I can try to push her off or even get mad at her, but she'll still try to force me into it for a few minutes.
I've also never seen any evidence that animals do indeed care about others during sex. When I see animals have sex together, I don't see it either.
And one time, even if I liked it, I was giving her oral and she put her paws on my head, she pushed my head into her and started humping. It was probably one of the best sexual experiences I've had, but what if I didn't like it? This first was a surprise to me she did this, so I tried to resist at first, but couldn't.
In the end, animals are different than humans. It's no surprise to me they don't really care.
We're both extremely clumsy.
There's such a thing as pretending.
None of this holds value to me. I'm already messed up.
And honestly, things like fear of failure always has been there.
I'll probably keep myself from doing that.
And why would that be?
If she survives and is happy it's all good. May be she'll even get a better owner.
Chances are high that would happen, actually.
I think she'll be in good hands anyways. And also that she'll easily forget me because she'll just have another loving owner.
Or may be that I've sticked all my optimism in that so much, and later have only been met with extreme dissapointment?
It's like seeing a certain human for the first time and holds a gun against you. You wouldn't want to meet them again because you've had a bad past experience with them.
Weird comparison, but I'm too tired to care.
Allow me to provide the examples I promised. You have a checklist, let's say it states to avoid foot stepping too, but also demands that you keep on track with walking her, grooming her, baths, maybe some housekeeping tasks or parts of your own ideal routine thrown in too. The reward would be encouraging a great deal more than just avoiding pain on her part.
Rape in the animal kingdom decreases reproductive fitness. It's selected against. This isn't a view, it's reasoned and based on evidence. It simply isn't going to be rewarded the same, because it can result in injury or death when it happens.
You... aren't the best at pretending. But on that note, keep in mind that she can keep secrets of her own. She won't always noticably show how your condition affects her.
They've all always been there, but you're adding bricks to the wall you're trying to climb over. It's counterproductive. And, you aren't so old that you can't heal from it. Every day you don't seek treatment is that much less healing that can be had.
Cry of Fear was a psychosis, by the way. You might hallucinate a thousand dead dogs, every one your partner. It would be one of the milder ones I've heard of, too.
No telling what would happen to her if your family voices their suspicions about what you did with her. Even a no kill shelter would be quite tempted, I wager. Her getting fixed is a likelihood too, if her newly unattended sexuality proves too great a burden for caretakers. Quite a painful process for an older dog. Slow recovery too, and high risk of infection.
Of course, there is also the possibility that she has an emotional dependence on you that you haven't realized. I've seen a bereaved dog starve to death next to a full food bowl because of it. It's an agonizing way to go, and markedly more common in larger dogs. I could go on and on about the possibilities. The best ones see you staying alive and recovering.
No, you have a heritable disorder and it would have happened regardless. I'd like to note that everyone has a bias toward saying their own actions are reasoned rather than caused by emotions or traits that are beyond their control. I believe it's part of the actor-observer bias.
Except I don't have the energy or will to do this at all.
I'm someone who thinks ''Fuck it.'' a lot in life.
Also, sometime in my life I tried doing this with something else. Rewarding myself really doesn't work, I promise you.
Yet my girl doesn't seem to care nor do I see animals ''care'' about the other in sex.
I believe what you said, but it doesn't prove anything for me.
The only hallucination I've ever had was that I was going to have sex with her.
If my mom wouldn't be in a hospital if I'm dead, especially because of suicide, then she would take care of her.
She's... an ''animal lover'' and has like what, 100 cats? Few birds and fish, and is jealous that I'm going to the school I'm going to.
Alright, she may have killed so many birds, fish and cats but never killed a dog.
She probably knows anyways. Or she at least doubts it what I did.
''What do you keep doing in the shack with her? What if the neighbours hear you?''
''If the police catches you, just say we are breeding her.''
Action will only be taken if she directly catches me, as she said. Oh and by the way, if that happens you won't ever see me again.
Well at least she won't be asking for sex any more.
Oh and hey, according to all those so called ''animal experts'' and vast majority of humanity spaying and neutering is perfectly fine.
I know she won't be like that.
She can easily live a new life without me for sure. Even a better one, I think.
Even then, she's quite dumb for a dog, or just any animal. I doubt she'd care.
First moments without me would be scary and weird, but after that she'd be alright.
I guess it doesn't matter even if that was true.
But still, I'm choosing my own way. If it doesn't work then well too bad then. Everything has lost value to me anyways.
Simple as that.
Some places are like that. I'd hazard a guess and say where I live now is too. In your case, it may well be your personality that leaves them complicit to it. Some people are indubitably recieived better than others.
Not necessarily freer, but more observant of the sciences to be certain, and more scientifically literate by some margin. There is a certain skepticism by the younger generation toward their predecessors, and while of course there are many that would still disapprove, expecting more non-zoos to be tolerant or even supportive of it as time goes on isn't terribly far fetched... especially during this time of growing sexual acceptance tempered and shielded by the sciences.
Yea indeed, it maybe could be the type of friends that I tend to get that might be more accepting. But who knows. But the fact that 100% of them have been accepting is just confusing to me considering that it's said that most people will not be accepting according to the standard ideas.
It´s fine I´m allowed to disagree...how generous of you. ;)
Look, coming out is a double edged sword; while it can have a rather huge effect on your self esteem, it also can terribly backfire, even years after. And what you also don´t seem to realise: there´s a huge difference between telling someone you "love an animal", but it´s an entirely different cup of tea when being walked in during the act or something like that. What you also neglect quite a lot is the fact that those close to you naturally have the tendency towards clemency and permissiveness. I too am blessed with tolerant friends I came out to, but you better never underestimate what Nietzsche said: "In individuals, insanity is rare, in groups it´s the rule." "The society" as a group is far from becoming more tolerant of zoophilia; every other day, another country outlaws the practice of bestiality, disapproval percentages of zoophilia are in the high nineties and we´re lightyears away from any breakthrough, even a minor one.
To "come out or not come out" is a personal question everyone has to ask him-/herself and making the decision according to the immediate circumstances is highly recommended. A Christian fundamentalist´s son better not telling poppy that he´s interested in getting laid with a dog...but A Libertarian´s son might just do that and get away with it without any negative consequences. It depends; it really depends on your personal situation, your country´s attitude towards sexuality in general etc. pp.
Although I too say that society isn´t as hostile and rejctive of zoophilia as many like to depict it, I can only point out all the negative aspects of coming out. In the end, you are freely sharing sensitive private information about you and even if you are blessed with living in a country without laws against sex with animals, you should always keep in mind how outsiders are treated in general. It doesn´t take a law to make your life miserable, but it also isn´t impossible to lead a rather pleasant zoo life even though there are laws against "it". Coming out is like bluffing in poker, you make your bet, hoping that things will turn out your way, but there´s no guarantee you´ll win...and if you lose, you lose in triple digit percentages. Even I, who has come out to quite a bunch of close friends and even to my family that is very supportive of me, wouldn´t recommend coming out. The uplifting effect doing the "real talk" with friends once had has worn out and now, I don´t see any reason to do so anymore. I know what I am and don´t feel urged to share this knowledge with anyone anymore, not even close friends who do not already know. I´m too old and too experienced in zoophilia to still cling to this, I don´t need any reassurement from my friends anymore. I rarely speak about it with my friends, even though I could do so without any negative effects...Coming out will surely improve your self esteem a bit, but it won´t change your "zoo life" in the slightest little bit. In retrospective, I see coming out to friends as a "bad deal"...with the mentality I have now, as an heterosexual equine exclusive guy in his fourties, I wouldn´t come out to a single person except my family if given the change to redo my life. It just isn´t that important to me anymore.
Everyone can and has to decide on coming out for him-/herself.But if anyone decides pro coming out, he/she shouldn´t be too surprised when it backfires...and complaining about the "unjust" society (that is, btw, largely traumatised by "zoo confessions") shouldn´t be a thing when this happens. What anyone with the tendency towards coming out should keep in mind is that friendships can break and your once best friend can become your number one enemy within minutes. Before you take risks, learn to calculate them well....
Here comes the mighty 30-30 >.>
I know the risks, for certain; the thing is that for some reason it has always gone too well, I honestly would have never took the risk if it wasn't because my mother found out, and I got caught like I told you doing something highly sexual and they were just fine with it.
But I have read your post, even your equine circles know it and you have a mare partner; I honestly can't think it could be better; and your family is supportive of you, my family just doesn't give a shit; they are just ok with it, and I think it's fine so, I guess some don't even know it's more my cousins who do. I'm honestly quite surprised of how you've managed to get things done and honestly envious but I suppose you get to do things your way via hard work, I bet so.
But anyway it's not a huge risk given that I don't really see them anymore, they don't even know where I currently live, they are just around in social networks; other than the guy that is now my closest friend in this place, but we honestly don't talk much about it anyway. It used to be more before I told him as he used to tease me sending me horse stuff. So when I told him he wasn't surprised. But considering that being a furry is something of the public domain that might explain how things get there.
To me it doesn't really help my self steem, I suppose I've had enough coming out, my main thing is that it allows me to speak without having to hold myself if there's something about it to talk. Like eg when discussing relationships or what not or when making sexual jokes. It takes effort out. Honestly what I want about zoo is a partner, acceptance I've felt I've had enough, I'm still not sure because honestly it still makes me uncomfortable to this day, even when I should be used to already given it's been so since kid, and it's not like if I hadn't had close experiences to demonstrate me that it's my thing, but fuck. oh well...
I have a friend who is also out to quite a few people (friends and men she's been in relationships with, not family or co-workers/employers) and she hasn't had a negative reaction either. I guess it really is just luck. Did you say in one of your previous posts that people have correctly guessed you're zoo? If I'm remembering right. That's really interesting to me, since attraction to animals is usually not on peoples' radar.
If you're comfortable sharing a bit more, can I ask how your mother found out you were zoo as a kid? But also of course if you don't want to go into it for privacy's sake or whatever other reason that's okay too. I figured out I was zoo when I was pretty young, but I grew up in a very religious family so I knew to hide it from my parents and not mention it.
Yes, they correctly guess; I suppose is because they learn I'm a furry because it's no secret that, they ask me about it, and then they start teasing me about it, it usually goes that way. Not everyone takes that way but it tends to at times.
Well it was pretty shitty, but I suppose she kinda always known; the only thing I ever heard from her, is that "I know how you feel about the fucking cat, I've always known it, it arouses you...", she was pissed then, but I suppose she's found because I had rejected every sort of porn magazines she'd give me but had a shiton of animals magazines and drawings I was obsessed with (mostly big cats). She never talked about it afterwards, but I'm pretty sure she's aware of it, and she was before it; I also overheard once that they said that I was looking at horse pictures while masturbating, fucking holes in the wall.
My cousins figured it out later, in part because my cousin figured I was downloading a shiton of horse and big cat pictures through his computer as I didn't have one, they were non-explicit, but he guessed it, "aren't you sure you aren't a fucking zoophile", he said to which I froze, anyway that spread like wildfire and in a moment everyone that lived in that house knew. And later, maybe a month, he'd be the same person who found me with the weird aroused tomcat who approached me which opportunity I took, but he was very bitey so nothing too close; I wasn't so sure of what happened myself to be frank, or why that cat approached me like that, it was quite sudden, but I really enjoyed it, and so did the cat.
So yeah it was pretty much between espionage and common sense of people, plus it seems I wasn't the first zoophile in the family, as apparently one of my uncles was, but he was murdered later, for other reasons, I never had the chance to talk to him.
When I did my interviews of zoophiles a while back, I found a surprising amount were out to at least some friends or family, and that many of them actually had a positive experience in doing so. So your experience actually isn't surprising to me at all.
It depends a lot on the particular people you are talking to, and your area, and so on. I can guarantee you that in some areas you would get a much worse reception, and you could probably somewhat accurately predict such areas by looking at the sort of reception that LGBT individuals get when coming out of the closet.
Yeah I agree, but it's mostly the young people that seem to be a constant, in fact, my mother was the one that reacted worse; but she had years to digest it, and it's the only person (old generation) that reacted about it, others just ignored it, and it was only the youngest ones that acked it.
One of the advantages of growing old is perspective. You can actually witness social changes happening.
When I was young, rolling queers was a common pass time among fundamentalist youth. Sodomy was a felony.
Recently, I had a conversation with a young fundamentalist friend. He was disturbed that an openly gay couple had showed up for a family member's wedding. On his own he came to the conclusion that you could hate the sin and still love the sinner. He welcomed them without prejudice.
From my experience, we have far more to fear from New Age radicals and money raising "rescues". People that have real life experience with animals know how often "things happen".
I am fairly young. Actually, but yea I agree with you, my parents generation was very intolerant of lgbtq, and I mean very... my own generation couldn't care less or what you are into, it's such a radical change honestly.
Indeed new age radicals are less radicaley. If that's even a word.
As I said elsewhere, I think that's really at the heart of this whole topic... where you live and who you know, and the values you grow up around.
What bothers me a little - or more like casually frustrates me - is that more and more people seem so immersed in the culture of tolerance that they think it is the norm. I guess more power to you, maybe I need to move to where you are and hang out with your friends. But around here, being a nice guy does not trump being a mentally-ill animal abuser, imminently destined to start sexually assaulting some other vulnerable group... or whatever this area considers zoophiles to be.
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Pfffft, that´s such a twisted perspective...social changes happening? No, just the hated scapegoat groups shifting from one subgroup to another. I also don´t know how your statement fits into a world that experiences the resurrection of hard right wing conservativism (Duterte in the Philippines, PiS party in poland, Orban in Hungary, Le Pen and her Front National in France, the AfD in Germany, the tea party nutjobs in your US republican party etc. pp.); fact is, once the hate energy is set free when muslims won´t be the scarecrow anymore, the hatred won´t magically disappear, it will just find another target to unload onto...and take a guess who this target will be: outcasts.
Maybe your fundamentalist friend just didn´t want to ruin his family member´s wedding and kept quiet solely for that reason instead of making a scene? Thought about that?
I consider your post wishful thinking at best; especially your last sentence. I used to work among hundereds of "people that have real life experiences with animals" and not even one knows "how often things happen", hearing about zoophilia and bestiality always caught them by surprise. I honestly think you have moved to an alternative universe in which fucking animals is "just a common thing", you have fully swallowed the porn agenda and actually believe in what you´re saying here... I exactly know what you´ll gonna reply when I point out the many countries just recently banning any sex with animals..."New Age radicals and money raising rescues are to blame"...but I have to ask you straightforward: If "social changes (are) happening", why are laws against "zoophilia" introduced every other week in another country, with approval ratings for the ban in the eighties and nineties percentages?
When I speak of "people that have real life experiences with animals" I'm not talking about urbanites that play at dressage on weekends. I'm talking about farmers and ranchers that live with animals.
Old cowboy joke:
Re politics, let me explain to you how it works. You have to noisy few on one hand and the lazy many on the other. The noisy few control the money and the media. They will make the rules mostly by reacting to things that excite them. The lazy many will just coast along until they reach a certain level of irritation then they will rise and vote, overriding the noisy few.
This is what just happened to the LGBQ community. They went from felony offense to gay marriage in one generation. The new anti Zoo laws are as much a reaction to that as anything. The noisy few are fighting a rear guard action against a change they don't like.
BTW, your life will be much calmer if you learn how to recognize and ignore propaganda.
I don´t think I need some anonymous guy from Beastforum to explain to me how politics work...in case you have missed the info, I´m not a little kid , but in my mid fourties. Also I think you are completely simplifying (like most others who believe in the BF agenda) here...those so called "noisy few" are just what your narrowed attention lets through your consciousness filters. The "noisy few" INITIATE laws against bestiality, but the silent majority is what makes these laws, what installs them unwithspoken. As I said: wishful thinking at best.
And: `Murica isn´t the only country in the world. Just in case you didn´t notice, but other countries greatly differ from yours in all kinds of ways, such as attitude towards sexuality in general, openness to unusual sexualities, etc...
Yeah, my life actually got a lot calmer once I understood that people like you are nothing more than propagandists, too...and from what you´ve contributed in here since you arrived from BF just leaves me with one suggestion: go back to BF, your propaganda fits better there than here...
P.S.: Stop comparing zoophilia to homosexuality in any way. And would you pleeeeasse accept that for the acceptance of homosexuality, AIDS/HIV played a role that was many times more important than any "teaching the public" actions... We zoophiles have no AIDS/HIV-esque illness that puts suffering individuals of our community in the limelight, we´re also facing a problem that the LGBTQwhatever never, NEVER experienced, namely that of impossible vocal consent. Homosexuals CAN go see a police officer when they´re raped, now guess who can´t...
And one last, admittedly personal question that came to my mind...you don´t have to answer, but doing so I´d appreciate. So: Why are you here and also in Silverwolf´s Zoowritersguild? Have you been diagnosed with a terminal illness and trying to pull off a "George Willard" stunt by flooding any "zoo forum" you can rethrieve the address of with your propaganda? Something like "Before I die, I´ll open the world´s eyes!", that kind of drama queen stuff? Just wondering...
Can you say "ad hominem"?
I passed the "mid fourties (sic)" 20 odd years ago. I have actually participated in the political process and held minor office. I believe that gives me a small advantage in discussing political matters.
Re that "admittedly personal question", I had been more active than I am now for many years. For the last couple I have spent a lot of time in hospital and AFK. At this time I have lots of spare time (can't work awaiting another surgery) so I spend it on the net (in the A/C).
I am by nature a "fixer". I solve problems compulsively. My best thought on the problem of Zoo acceptance is simple. Educate the youth before they get in trouble and the public perception will improve. At the least I will save some animals a lot of pain.
I will explain the fallacy in your interpretation of US Constitutional law. There is no such thing as "gay rights" or "black rights" or any other kind of group rights. There is only "human rights". Lawrence v Texas merely affirmed that no government should violate human rights without a good and sufficient reason and that "gay" was not a reason.
I have the same rights as str8 and gay humans. My property is not a party to any legal interaction I have with the state until such time as someone can demonstrate that a measurable harm has taken place. I have heard that the law is similar in Germany. I would like to see that enforced the same way that Lawrence was enforced. Notice that "consent" has nothing to do with it.
Real talk, I've never been polled for this stuff. Polling is flawed in that they really don't have even sampling d/t how they perform them. "Oh, you're calling me with this survey? Well I only use email and text" "Oh, you're texting me? This'll take forever with my flip phone, no thanks!" "A survey in the mail? What is this, the dark ages?" etcetera etcetera. There are a finite number of ways to securely poll people, but at the end of the day, there's some group of people left out that they're going to be terrible at accounting for. Could be that the most supportive demographic is too young to be eligible, too. We default to saying the margin of error is +/-5%, but it's really something we don't know, from issue to issue.
A great example, too, is the presidential polling in the US. Clinton had a 98% chance of winning according to pre-election polls, but, well, you know how that turned out.
my close family and my friends know. They are all cool with it. Occasionally my mom will poke fun at it when I say things "oh wow what a pretty dog", responding with "you think all dogs are pretty" :p
:D
My experiences of coming out were largely neutral, no real bad reactions. Give this was a couple decades ago, but the gist is the still the same.
I think for most people it's something they don't understand and if not otherwise directed, they're happy to just ignore it, but all it takes is for one person to make you their personal crusade and tune of the song changes dramatically.
I tend to encourage not coming out because once the smoke is out, it's nearly impossible to put it back. If things go sour, there's a lot that can go horribly awry.
Ofc it's not to be recommended to anyone, however it's also hard to extort anyone for something pretty much everyone else knows. So there is that at least. Police won't do shit without proof and then you can go for defamation.
However that's a troubled way, if you can keep it a secret, alright. To me honestly, only one person knows in my new place, so it's pretty much hidden.
I personally kinda think that regardless of what people say and believe is unacceptable, they'll act differently when they're directly confronted with it. Most people are pretty non-confrontational by default, especially when it comes to friends and family they want to keep. I see it all the time with other things like sexual orientation, political opinions, kink, and even nasty shit like criminal history and pedophilia.
It's easy to be theoretically against something, but when it becomes personal and humanized, it gets harder. When a zero-tolerance policy on something suddenly has consequences, be it making a situation uncomfortable or losing a valuable friend, it's harder to keep enforcing it. A lot of people respond with denial, by making an exception, softening their opinion, or even changing their position.
Of course that will be true for some people. But the experience of a lot of other people is that their family/friends directly confronted with it will freak out, even if (especially if?) they are generally very loving.
It isn't EASY to be against something when it becomes personal, but that doesn't stop people from their feelings or opinions. If anything, it just makes a bad situation all the more hurtful and awkward, as they feel terrible about what they did wrong, pursue the need to get the person to seek help for their mental illness, etc.
I'm really happy for those who live around really open-minded people and open-minded communities, so much so that they assume it's the norm, but this REALLY is not a universal truth, or even majority truth, from what I've seen and experienced.
Yeah it's not going to be the experience of everyone, but it is very much something that happens, and seems to happen frequently. I can't make an estimate about how often this happens in regards to zoophilia and I'm not going to go collecting data anytime soon. This is less about what is definitely going to happen and more about why this happens.
I don't think this is really the same as true acceptance and it doesn't have anything to do with being open-minded. This is just people taking the path of least resistance. It's the easy thing to do, it doesn't require commitment to fracturing social bonds or dealing with the fallout, it doesn't even require thinking critically about their position. The only thing it requires them to do is not say anything.
Because it doesn't have anything to do with real acceptance, that also doesn't mean that they won't do anything negative, but it'll be things that require less effort and are more subtle. Not talking to someone when it's avoidable, avoiding artwork they put out, dropping passive-aggressive jabs about it, etc.
...To be honest, I agree with you when it comes to not wanting to hide these personal things a lot. I would really like to be able to openly talk about this, but what I honestly can't believe is how well accepted you were in your enviroment and how people even support you. I don't know if it has something to do with the place you live or something else, but I'm 100% sure people around me would freak out and think I'm a rapist, because that's what I see everyone believe when they think about zoophilic people.
I don't mean any offense but if I had to bet, I'd say people accept you more because you are a woman (from your post it looks like you are a woman and not a man). Why I think this? well, a lot of people think women can't rape, so they assume there's not animal cruelty in that, but I haven't seen any normal person at all assuming a man can have sex with a female animal with consent/no rape.
I would like to ask you what you think about what I'm saying. Do you think people would react the same if you were a male and liked to have intercourse with female animals?
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