submitted 2015-04-29 08:25:53 by furvert_tailEquine, large canid
Tundrovyy-VolkCanidae 5 points on 2015-04-29 12:31:57
What would you suggest? We can achieve something large if we do it together.
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 8 points on 2015-04-29 13:07:24
We need to be organised, but the best work will build on what has already been done. To that end, I intend to send money to zeta-verein.de, and offer them whatever skills I have. ("Being a native English speaker" might count for something, but on the other hand I only know about a thousand words of German and most of that is almost comically bad Duolingo-ese.)
Their effort hasn't gone un-noticed. A homophobe appeared on my partner's facebook recently, saying how awful it was that consent was more important these days than religion, and gave "The German organisation ZETA" as an example.
I'd go for unambiguously pro-animal stunts, but real-world experience counts for more than my ideas every time.
Yearningmice 4 points on 2015-04-29 14:23:30
I'll be supporting zeta verein as well.
I think taking a direct stand against an anti-group doesn't really work well and simply brings them more attention. I find the rabid antis simply keep changing the goal posts no matter how logical or information filled you are with your answer. The short quick phrase does us more harm than a fact that is hard to understand.
Instead you need feelings, the desolation and loss that someone feels when their life is destroyed, to counter such groups. It is one reason, as hard as it is to accept, that the AIDS crisis was good for gays in America from a political standpoint. Hard to find a human being crying on the steps of a legislature that denied him the ability to see his loved one pass on, and not be moved.
I know that a lot of us have suffered for our love and still do. Perhaps a story campaign? Hiding who the lover was until the end.
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 3 points on 2015-04-29 14:42:14
I agree. The rabid ones are not my main concern, not directly, as I think it's the people who listen to them without realising they're rabid we need to reach out to — and that's where I think a short quick phrase could be helpful. Soundbites, I think that's the word I'm looking for.
Stories have power, and that's something we have going well for us. "You killed my lover" is powerful, and the fear of that coming has been cited by many as a reason to keep hidden. On the other hand, all the fabricated stories are what drove the politicians against us.
You've probably been doing this a lot longer than I have. I'm only just starting to realise how illogical human political behaviour is, despite the evidence of that being right under my nose for my whole life.
AliasTheReindeerPoneShort Christmas Horse 5 points on 2015-04-29 14:44:40
Perhaps a story campaign? Hiding who the lover was until the end.
That's actually a great idea. We could have someone go around collecting the stories, maybe find a couple of editors to clean the stories up, and then have several people spread those stories elsewhere. I'd be glad to volunteer for any part of this, although I think I would be best suited for the collection and editing.
If somebody would be willing to read them out loud, we could even put together a video and have (Gasp!) a literal voice for zoophilia. That would make the information more accessible, it would humanize the stories, and I think it would be a huge step in the right direction.
JonasCliverMightyenas lol 2 points on 2015-04-29 15:47:44
Well, I had this idea for a Transgression fanfic...
AliasTheReindeerPoneShort Christmas Horse 2 points on 2015-04-29 16:12:44
I was thinking more along the lines of true stories about the loving side of zoophilia based on ones own experiences, but tomāto tomäto.
JonasCliverMightyenas lol 2 points on 2015-04-29 17:17:20
Well, story goes like this: guy is vet, had his own dog (husky) coming up to him (or how that's called), so he ignored her when that time of the year came around; while he ignored her, she got sick with smth easiely preventable and died; while he was looking for a cure for late-stage problems, he realised how he fucked up - bam, SCIENCE!!! fried his brain. Later, he goes back in time to tell his past self to stop ignoring her (that's how the one-shot starts). Sometime later during that speech, her being a dog is revealed.
AliasTheReindeerPoneShort Christmas Horse 2 points on 2015-04-29 18:54:49
I suddenly have a feeling that only one of us was being sarcastic about the fanfiction.
JonasCliverMightyenas lol 2 points on 2015-04-29 19:44:49
Well, there's also that Technocrat/Companion (Ascencion) piece. All discussion, no porn.
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 2 points on 2015-04-29 16:20:27
I agree with not taking a direct stand against the antis especially since the antis don't play by the rules with their DDOS attacks. I agree raising/donating money for Zeta-Verein is a better option.
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 1 point on 2015-04-29 16:30:54
I certainly wouldn't consider a DDOS even if they were universally accepted as legitimate free speech. They have more skill with using them than we are likely to possess: their strength and our weakness is a bad combination. That it's also illegal is icing on the "nope" cake.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 1 point on 2015-04-29 20:52:53
Honestly, I think that translating would be possible even without knowing much German. While translation programs are far from perfect, they'll give a close enough translation that someone could easily write out something that made more sense in the language, even if it wasn't a word-for-word translation.
AliasTheReindeerPoneShort Christmas Horse 4 points on 2015-04-29 13:14:03
I'm not not saying that I would be completely on board with taking a stand against #OpBeast before it hits closer to home. Granted, it's already illegal in most states (And socially crippling even where not), but as /u/Yearningmice pointed out, some people still want to make it double-plus-crime-think.
The situation is less than optimal, but as it stands, we can get by if we're careful. I'd hate to risk that small grace by calling attention to ourselves, but if we're being put in the spotlight either way, we might as well put on a show.
Edit: ForgothowtoEnglish.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 4 points on 2015-04-29 21:05:11
I'm thinking of stuff like posters and pamphlets. Maybe something like the silhouette of a person and some text. I currently have this "She was the love of my life. We enjoyed walks in the park, cuddling in front of the fire, and a nice steak dinner...
...Until she was taken away, surgically mutilated, and killed.
Because she had four legs while I have two."
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 2 points on 2015-04-29 22:36:43
Wow. One of the most powerful stories for us.
(The inner critic in me says that's preaching to the choir. My inner critic does that a lot. Question is, how well does it resonate with non-zoos? Have to try it and see.)
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 2 points on 2015-04-30 01:11:09
well that escalated quickly. I'd rather something that wasnt so shocking to be honest. speaking personally, if its too shocking I lose focus of the actual message being conveyed.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 2 points on 2015-04-30 03:20:10
Yeah, good point. I'm also worried some stuff might come across as corny and stuff.
PigeondanceBirdies yay 9 points on 2015-04-29 19:11:35
If somebody would be willing to read them out loud, we could even put together a video and have (Gasp!) a literal voice for zoophilia. That would make the information more accessible, it would humanize the stories, and I think it would be a huge step in the right direction.
I really like the idea of a "story based" campaign, and the video idea. I also love the idea of hiding who the lover is until the end. I'm imagining a kind of montage of people shot from the neck down (for anonymity) telling a story or separate stories about their relationships, in short clips of like 10-20 seconds, just enough time for a sentence of two. Or answering on screen text prompts like :
"what kind of things do you do with your partner?" And it would be things like going on hikes, swimming, watching tv, play sports, go for runs/walks
"What do you value about your partner?"
Any number of things like the the joy of their presence, the sense of closeness, understanding, the fulfillment of maturing changing and growing together ect
Other cutesy stuff like that that could easily apply to human relationships, and no hints that it's about zoophilia, just general statements that anyone in a happy healthy relationship might say. Get across that this is a relatable "normal" group of people.
Then on to other questions where we could start dropping hints (these are just example questions off the top of my head not very articulated)
"What bothers you about your partner?"
"Sometimes she doesn't give me enough space" or "he sulks after a disagreement" then stuff like "when he shakes the water of his fur inside and it gets everywhere" or something like that and have it become more and more obvious with each question that they arnt talking about human partners.
The point/message being that we love and care about our partners just as much as anyone else, they just happen to not be the same species.
I came across a quote recently I like a lot, "we are all men and women, some human, some not"
Having a group of people who make clips of them selfs for the video could potentially be very powerful I think. There seems to be a stereotype that all zoos are all fat old pervy guys who have sex with animals because no humans will.
In reality we are a diverse group of people, like any other orientation. For example I'm an 18 year old relatively slender women, not what most un informed people would picture when they think of a zoophile.
I would be totally down to make some clips of myself for a video. I don't have much experience editing video, but if some other people are good at it maybe we can make this happen. Anyone else willing to do something like this? I think it would be an awesome group project.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 3 points on 2015-04-29 20:50:48
I love that idea! If someone wanted, I'd be willing to edit some of these into posters or images?
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 3 points on 2015-04-29 22:32:19
Could be good. Reminds me of an animal adoption campaign I saw a while back. "Likes long walks on the beach", etc.
TheEthicalZoo 1 point on 2015-05-02 02:05:09
Someone, please do this. I really want to see this happen.
Yearningmice 2 points on 2015-05-01 13:21:11
So I did a thing, I've created a sub for you creative types to brain storm, try out ideas, create scripts and the like called /r/zooprop . Message the mod for access, I've included everyone posting here for a start.
Basically is a counter propaganda sub for folks who want to generate content. It is invite only but not particularly super secret. The wiki is enabled and feel free to make use of it as much as you wish.
I've added those of you who posted to this thread.
furvert_tailEquine, large canid 1 point on 2015-05-01 22:10:11
Cheers. Good plan.
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 1 point on 2015-05-06 04:00:46
What type of counter-content are you looking for? I have some old (completely philosophical) essays lying around....
/r/zoophilia archive
What would you suggest? We can achieve something large if we do it together.
We need to be organised, but the best work will build on what has already been done. To that end, I intend to send money to zeta-verein.de, and offer them whatever skills I have. ("Being a native English speaker" might count for something, but on the other hand I only know about a thousand words of German and most of that is almost comically bad Duolingo-ese.)
Their effort hasn't gone un-noticed. A homophobe appeared on my partner's facebook recently, saying how awful it was that consent was more important these days than religion, and gave "The German organisation ZETA" as an example.
I'd go for unambiguously pro-animal stunts, but real-world experience counts for more than my ideas every time.
I'll be supporting zeta verein as well.
I think taking a direct stand against an anti-group doesn't really work well and simply brings them more attention. I find the rabid antis simply keep changing the goal posts no matter how logical or information filled you are with your answer. The short quick phrase does us more harm than a fact that is hard to understand.
Instead you need feelings, the desolation and loss that someone feels when their life is destroyed, to counter such groups. It is one reason, as hard as it is to accept, that the AIDS crisis was good for gays in America from a political standpoint. Hard to find a human being crying on the steps of a legislature that denied him the ability to see his loved one pass on, and not be moved.
I know that a lot of us have suffered for our love and still do. Perhaps a story campaign? Hiding who the lover was until the end.
I agree. The rabid ones are not my main concern, not directly, as I think it's the people who listen to them without realising they're rabid we need to reach out to — and that's where I think a short quick phrase could be helpful. Soundbites, I think that's the word I'm looking for.
Stories have power, and that's something we have going well for us. "You killed my lover" is powerful, and the fear of that coming has been cited by many as a reason to keep hidden. On the other hand, all the fabricated stories are what drove the politicians against us.
You've probably been doing this a lot longer than I have. I'm only just starting to realise how illogical human political behaviour is, despite the evidence of that being right under my nose for my whole life.
That's actually a great idea. We could have someone go around collecting the stories, maybe find a couple of editors to clean the stories up, and then have several people spread those stories elsewhere. I'd be glad to volunteer for any part of this, although I think I would be best suited for the collection and editing.
If somebody would be willing to read them out loud, we could even put together a video and have (Gasp!) a literal voice for zoophilia. That would make the information more accessible, it would humanize the stories, and I think it would be a huge step in the right direction.
Well, I had this idea for a Transgression fanfic...
I was thinking more along the lines of true stories about the loving side of zoophilia based on ones own experiences, but tomāto tomäto.
Well, story goes like this: guy is vet, had his own dog (husky) coming up to him (or how that's called), so he ignored her when that time of the year came around; while he ignored her, she got sick with smth easiely preventable and died; while he was looking for a cure for late-stage problems, he realised how he fucked up - bam, SCIENCE!!! fried his brain. Later, he goes back in time to tell his past self to stop ignoring her (that's how the one-shot starts). Sometime later during that speech, her being a dog is revealed.
I suddenly have a feeling that only one of us was being sarcastic about the fanfiction.
Well, there's also that Technocrat/Companion (Ascencion) piece. All discussion, no porn.
I agree with not taking a direct stand against the antis especially since the antis don't play by the rules with their DDOS attacks. I agree raising/donating money for Zeta-Verein is a better option.
I certainly wouldn't consider a DDOS even if they were universally accepted as legitimate free speech. They have more skill with using them than we are likely to possess: their strength and our weakness is a bad combination. That it's also illegal is icing on the "nope" cake.
Honestly, I think that translating would be possible even without knowing much German. While translation programs are far from perfect, they'll give a close enough translation that someone could easily write out something that made more sense in the language, even if it wasn't a word-for-word translation.
I'm not not saying that I would be completely on board with taking a stand against #OpBeast before it hits closer to home. Granted, it's already illegal in most states (And socially crippling even where not), but as /u/Yearningmice pointed out, some people still want to make it double-plus-crime-think.
The situation is less than optimal, but as it stands, we can get by if we're careful. I'd hate to risk that small grace by calling attention to ourselves, but if we're being put in the spotlight either way, we might as well put on a show.
Edit: Forgot how to English.
I'm thinking of stuff like posters and pamphlets. Maybe something like the silhouette of a person and some text. I currently have this "She was the love of my life. We enjoyed walks in the park, cuddling in front of the fire, and a nice steak dinner...
...Until she was taken away, surgically mutilated, and killed.
Because she had four legs while I have two."
Wow. One of the most powerful stories for us.
(The inner critic in me says that's preaching to the choir. My inner critic does that a lot. Question is, how well does it resonate with non-zoos? Have to try it and see.)
well that escalated quickly. I'd rather something that wasnt so shocking to be honest. speaking personally, if its too shocking I lose focus of the actual message being conveyed.
Yeah, good point. I'm also worried some stuff might come across as corny and stuff.
I really like the idea of a "story based" campaign, and the video idea. I also love the idea of hiding who the lover is until the end. I'm imagining a kind of montage of people shot from the neck down (for anonymity) telling a story or separate stories about their relationships, in short clips of like 10-20 seconds, just enough time for a sentence of two. Or answering on screen text prompts like :
"what kind of things do you do with your partner?" And it would be things like going on hikes, swimming, watching tv, play sports, go for runs/walks
"What do you value about your partner?" Any number of things like the the joy of their presence, the sense of closeness, understanding, the fulfillment of maturing changing and growing together ect
Other cutesy stuff like that that could easily apply to human relationships, and no hints that it's about zoophilia, just general statements that anyone in a happy healthy relationship might say. Get across that this is a relatable "normal" group of people.
Then on to other questions where we could start dropping hints (these are just example questions off the top of my head not very articulated)
"What bothers you about your partner?" "Sometimes she doesn't give me enough space" or "he sulks after a disagreement" then stuff like "when he shakes the water of his fur inside and it gets everywhere" or something like that and have it become more and more obvious with each question that they arnt talking about human partners.
The point/message being that we love and care about our partners just as much as anyone else, they just happen to not be the same species.
I came across a quote recently I like a lot, "we are all men and women, some human, some not"
Having a group of people who make clips of them selfs for the video could potentially be very powerful I think. There seems to be a stereotype that all zoos are all fat old pervy guys who have sex with animals because no humans will. In reality we are a diverse group of people, like any other orientation. For example I'm an 18 year old relatively slender women, not what most un informed people would picture when they think of a zoophile.
I would be totally down to make some clips of myself for a video. I don't have much experience editing video, but if some other people are good at it maybe we can make this happen. Anyone else willing to do something like this? I think it would be an awesome group project.
I love that idea! If someone wanted, I'd be willing to edit some of these into posters or images?
Could be good. Reminds me of an animal adoption campaign I saw a while back. "Likes long walks on the beach", etc.
Someone, please do this. I really want to see this happen.
So I did a thing, I've created a sub for you creative types to brain storm, try out ideas, create scripts and the like called /r/zooprop . Message the mod for access, I've included everyone posting here for a start.
Basically is a counter propaganda sub for folks who want to generate content. It is invite only but not particularly super secret. The wiki is enabled and feel free to make use of it as much as you wish.
I've added those of you who posted to this thread.
Cheers. Good plan.
What type of counter-content are you looking for? I have some old (completely philosophical) essays lying around....
...But not a lick of art skill. ;)