ColeTrain's thread entitled "World zoo" reminded me of something I witnessed recently, and which I've been thinking about ever since.
I was at a BBQ with some of my friends-- the same friends referenced in an older post. We were celebrating Jeremy's promotion at work, and the party was at a house owned by one of Jeremy's co-workers. The co-worker owned a Golden Retriever, who was a very affectionate dog (I got in a couple of belly rubs). Halfway through the party, everyone laughed when the co-worker's wife called the dog onto her lap on the couch, at which point the dog licked her in the face repeatedly. It was pretty slobbery. As everyone laughed, the wife laughed, too, and let the dog keep licking for about another thirty seconds. She even stuck her tongue out a bit and let the dog French her!
Everyone kept laughing. I was a little surprised. In my experience, no one lets their dog lick their face in public for longer than a few seconds. I had never seen anyone dare to let their dog French them. Being who I am, I couldn't help but wonder if the wife was a closet zoo.
Has anyone ever seen a non-zoo be so... open with their dog? What does physical intimacy mean for a zoo as opposed to a non-zoo? Is there a recognized standard for what constitutes "appropriate intimacy" with your dog in public? Has anyone seen someone just let their dog slobber all over their face, like what I saw?
I guess I'm just a little bewildered, and curious about what the rules are about dog owners kissing their dogs. The dog owners I saw growing up never did more than pet their dogs and, if they were adventurous, give a little smooch on the top of their heads.
TL;DR- saw a woman French kiss her dog in public, no one thought it was strange-- WHY?
Because most people won't assume zoophilia until it is TOTALLY in their face, beyond a shadow of a doubt. THey probably thought she was pulling off a sick joke of some kind... Heck, my parents didn't even believe me when I came out to them (TOLD them I was zoo) and they had seen my browser history (which was totally zoo), they thought it was some kind of sick inappropriate joke I was into until I pulled out PHOTOS of me and my old doe kissing in a pretty clearly romantic fashion.
They proceeded to burn said photos and send me to a doctor in the morning, but lets skip that part today...
Zoinks, man. Hope you're in a better situation today. hug
Not MUCH better, but better. Heh. I can be depressing sometimes, you'll have to forgive that.
There's nothing to forgive, man. This is the perfect place to let your sad thoughts be free.
Thanks... just trying not to darken the mood too much. :)
But about PDAs... I guess. I forget how far from "normal" zoophilia is, to the point where no one would suspect sex even if they saw two creatures' tongues touching.
Oh you reminded me, I had a similar situation. I was at a co-workers house party and the dude he lives with has this absolutely gorgeous golden bitch (we'll call her R). Not gonna lie, I've thought about her quite a bit. Anyway this third guy showed up who likes to get absolutely blasted when drinking. Earlier on in the evening we're all quite drunk and stuff and we're all stood around outside chatting away with third guy petting R, thats fine, but then he gets 'really' into it. Like crouching down and burying his face into her fur having a bit of a moment with her, still in front of everyone. The once bustling chatter died down and everyone was staring at him, like 'what the fuck', but no one said anything to him. I cant remember exactly what happened to break the awkwardness and Im not sure if Rs owner spoke to him the next day or not, but I was blown away at the time. I dont dare ask him about it because he was one of the managers at my old company and I dont really know him that well either. We shall never know, it may have just been down to him being way more out of it than I thought. As a zoo though, if I had done that it would've been very sexually charged.
So yeah, thats by far the most zoophile thing I've ever seen. Has to make you wonder...
Just noticed the dog in your story was a golden. Theyre so sexy they turn people zoo?!
Well, you know what they say... gentlemen prefer blondes!
Seriously, though. I'm really interested now. One group of people laughs at a sober woman tongue-kissing a dog (on a couch), and another group of people gets quiet and uncomfortable when a drunk man buries his face in a dog's fur in the backyard. Is it a gender thing, do you think? Like women are supposed to be more physically affectionate than men, both with humans and non-humans?
I think it's more that men are usually the ones to initiate sexual things (culturally anyways)... they probably saw the (male?) dog as the initiator and thus saw it as funny like "lol, doggie wants to get in her pants"
Whereas a man burrying himself in a goldens fur gets a little on the "wow, he needs to step away from that dog" side... it's ok if the animal is initating it, THAT'S funny. A human doing so? Nope.
Im trying to picture your situation, and it doesnt seem like a gender thing to me. I'm guessing its just down to the company you're with and the atmosphere at that point in time. I'd love to hear other peoples point of view on this.
Maybe gender isn't the only factor, but it has to be, just a little bit. Every once in a while, I go looking for pictures and videos of nonexplicit human-animal affection for r/animalromance. You may have seen a few. I use search terms like "dog kiss girl", "dogs kissing women", "dog french kiss", and the like. Dozens of searches over the months. Very rarely do I find pictures of men giving affection, i.e. kissing a dog in the mouth and snuggling/cuddling them in any intimate fashion. Pictures of women doing these things, by contrast, are much easier to find. If you've noticed, most of the content I've shared has human women because that's most of the humans on camera out there. Do you think that that might constitute evidence for gender bias? Gender expectations?
ah thats a good point, women are definitely seen as more affectionate, especially with pets. There was a thing in the book I just read that tied that in with the rise of popularity of positive reinforcement training.
I guess yeah, thinking about it, its a lot more innocent when a girl does it because they're seen as girly, innocent and wouldnt even think about having dirty thoughts with a dog. Sexual deviant males on the other hand... (these arent my beliefs, just what society thinks as a whole).
edit: yup, basically what rannoch says in his comment.
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Yeah I honestly feel pretty safe when it comes to basic PDA with my dog. I've kissed her on the mouth many times in public as most everyone sees it as innocent playing around. As already stated, it's just not something that people suspect without it being too blatant, but those limits are easy to understand in my experience.
What, precisely, do you think the limits are? Is there a time limit? LOL
Haha well yeah of course there are limits. I suppose it's best to not let it last more than 10-15 sec at a time, but it really depends on who you're around. It would take a lot to make someone suspect you're zoo though, so it's really not worth worrying about when it comes to kissing IMO
After thinking about this some more, I thought of u/ThrowwwayGurl and her incredible mini-memoir of her days as an active zoophile (if you haven't read them, you simply must check them out-- parts one and two.)
Anyway, she talks about how she kept going to second and third base with the family dog, without anyone suspecting a thing. The following quote sticks out to me in particular...
"I was slowly learning that other people were completely oblivious to even a remote consideration that I was regularly going to third base with my shepherd at nearly every opportunity. I realized that as long I was moderately careful, what I was doing was so unthinkable that nobody else would even suspect a thing, even if I spent long afternoons cuddling with Shadow in plain view while I read or studied, the only reaction I ever heard was an 'aww how sweet' type of comment."
I think there's some of that gender bias I discussed with u/actuallynotazoophile. But if TG sees this thread, I hope she can tell us what people's perspectives were/are, because she is someone who I am certain was an active zoo who was PDAing with a pooch in public, without anyone vocally accusing her of doing anything sexual.
If anyone else has stories that help understand this, please share!
Second base? Third base? PDA? First base, for that matter? Is there a fourth base? Fifth? What are talking about?
Common slang for certain stages of a relationship all the way up to full intercourse, at least in the US. Modeled after baseball, and as such, a 4th base would be a "home run"
PDA = Public display of affection
What are "bases", then?
Pretty sure it goes something like this (not an expert):
1st base: kissing or mostly "innocent" romantic behavior.
2nd base: getting nekkid.
3rd base: foreplay / anything short of actual sex
Home: full on sex
I think it's easy for zoophiles to kinda forget that because most people don't think of animals sexually, they aren't likely to read sexual subtext into things like kissing or cuddling a dog. It's just what people do
I think you can pretty much do anything up to literally fucking a dog in front of them before people caught on. Hell, I've heard of non-zoos literally giving male dogs handjobs cuz they felt bad.
For serious?! Where did you hear that?! You must tell us more!
Yep. Heard it from a friend. I've seen similar stories floating around online though. There are also so many tutorials on how to masturbate a cat in heat it's not even funny.
But yeah, give a dog a pity wank or finger a literal pussy because she's annoying and that's fine, but if you get aroused while you do it? Wow what a monster.
Damn.
I can, in fact, confirm these things happen. Possibly not a lot, but I don't have a huge sample to go on.
Just to be a cynic, I'd only count it as "confirmation" if the people telling you know that you're an active zoophile, otherwise they might just be hiding it or suspecting that you're a secret undercover cop.
Well then, for a cynic you're being very positive as there are a lot more closet zoos out there then.
Scientific cynicism goes both ways. It's looking for alternative explanations for the observations. :)
It's true that the people saying these things might be closet zoophiles, but that doesn't change how a lot of supposedly non-zoo people just shrug and laugh at these stories. If you frame things correctly, most non-zoos will think it's a joke or a silly anecdote from a wild night.
That's true. My partner didn't guess I was a zoo when I told her, several months into our relationship, about french kissing a dog... even though she had suspected on our first date.
I've seen it happen a lot. Everyone has different limit but those with the higher limits I've always seen around places were work involves pets, like animal shelters. The staff isn't afraid to show affection to the dogs with others nearby. At the time they did more than I ever dared to show...
I can't recall other males seeing it doing, but since I copied them nobody seemed to care anyway. Being licked by a dog is all part of a days work.
Someone who's dogs I walk is also very 'open' with her dogs. She drinks from a cup, the dogs drink up the rest. She shares biscuits with the dogs, letting them take it from her mouth. She doesn't care what the world thinks of her. She simply loves her dogs. And she isn't even a zoo.
I think the best way to handle it is to not 'demand' or force these interactions with a dog, but just let it happen when it happens and the dog initiates it.
Affection towards animals goes a long way, but I am sure that there is much more to it than that. There are a lot more zoos out there than we know or could possibly know.
I think, as has been touched on above that there are two factors here. The "denial is a powerful thing" factor where no one would think that someone would seriously do that in public. The other is the gender stereotypes where women are allowed to show feelings/emotions towards others with little repercussion.
Anyhow, that's discussed already. I'm a "liberated man" and am quite capable of expressing affection to my animal mates in public. My mare receives kisses and scratches whenever and wherever it seems like the time. She even gets kisses on whatever she presents to be kissed. My dogs, while I'm not overtly sexual with them, also receive a lot of loving in public. Not once have I noticed a particularly strange look, and as a matter of fact if I ever do get comments it is about how much I love them, or other positive comments.
So I know it is scarey, but like visiting the vet, a lot of the fear only exists in your own mind. Go ahead and let yourself be a little freer.
Hell it would take more then that to convince me somebody's zoo,
Unless maybe I fantasized about it before we seem to manifest evidence and such thing if we want it,
But hey they could be zoophile's you never really know.
my question would be, how drunk was the woman and/or the others at the party?
i know i'm careful when i visit my sister and her dog is all over me, kissing my face. i let her kiss me plenty, but i always make sure to keep my mouth closed and act like i'm not enjoying it immensely...
I have a similar story from just last night. It involves me, my brother's whippet mix, and my uncle's labrador mix, at a family party.
Basically, a bunch of my extended family, including my brother and I, were at my uncle's house celebrating the birthdays of a few relations. My brother brought his dog, who is ordinarily pretty shy around other dogs. This was exciting to my uncle's black lab mix, who ordinarily doesn't have a real playmate (the other dog in the house is tiny). The two of them took to running around the house, sniffing each other, wrestling, etc. My brother's girlfriend and my aunt were both a bit paranoid about that, but it seemed to be alright for them.
Anyway, at some point I ended up on the couch with the dogs wrestling around me. Then, for whatever reason (body language?) they turned their attention to me. The lab mix began licking me on the lips, and we softly kissed for a little bit (in full view of a couple of people in the room, but they were mostly involved in their own conversation and paid little attention). Then, for some reason, the whippet mix began to get a little humpy with the lab mix (which he's never done before), and at that point my brother's girlfriend started getting upset and telling him to stop because she found his humping "icky". Someone else assured her that it wasn't sexual, merely for dominance, and I said that it's a natural part of how adult dogs play. She still didn't like it however, and things stopped there. I will note, however, that the whippet mix (who is neutered) was a little excited (still in his sheath, but ready to come out if needed), so I'm not sure if there was anything else to that.
TL;DR My uncle's lab mix kissed me a bit, my brother's whippet mix started humping him, and my brother's girlfriend found it gross because she thinks of dogs as furbabies.
Interesting. I guess it really does just depend on people and what they're paying attention to.