submitted 2015-05-15 16:39:05 by coyotedriftZoo Friendly
KynophileDog lover 4 points on 2015-05-15 18:10:48
To me, this is a symbolic gesture. When it translates into better and more reasonable animal welfare laws, then I'll celebrate. Until then, props for the lip service.
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 3 points on 2015-05-15 19:00:37
The article said it bans cosmetic testing, so I guess it is a small victory at least.
zoozooz 3 points on 2015-05-15 18:39:25
If you look closely many of the anti zoo texts read like it's always zoos who do something to animals. Maybe with recognitions as those people will realize that animals are not objects but subjects too who want stuff and do stuff. Sometimes even sex.
But this sounds worrisome:
The bill also provides for a penalty scheme to enable low-to-medium level offending to be dealt with more effectively, and gives animal welfare inspectors the power to issue compliance notices, among other measures.
Who guarantees that these people are objective and don't target zoophiles because they hate them?
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 3 points on 2015-05-15 19:08:11
This law has the potential to be either very good for zoos or very bad. At this point in time only God knows.
WyldStallions 2 points on 2015-05-15 19:36:42
As an Australian and a vegan and zoo who thinks NZ is awesome in many ways I have to wonder how this law could be justified with hunting, killing for meat or animal by products. Surely the entire country is not going vegan but you also can't kill and eat sentient beings, no? Else canabalism would be legal, no? And NZ's bug export is their wool which of course is not going to stop, but if you have ever seen a sheep sheared that is anything but cruel. I'm not judging it, people can eat and wear what they want IMO but this law seems like a bunch of BS if you don't enforce it 100% across the board.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 3 points on 2015-05-15 22:57:39
While I think that the shearing process can be improved, the thing about sheep is that you can't NOT shear them. We've bred some breeds so their coats grow indefinitely, meaning that without shearing they can be at risk of heat stroke.
WyldStallions 1 point on 2015-05-16 00:00:06
True but as an Aussie, sheep are big here too so I have had lots of opportunities to see them sheared and personally I consider it pretty brutal. They want to get through the flock as fast as possible and are just flipping and whipping the poor sheep around, slamming them to the ground, holding them down while sheep are obviously frightened and the clippers are loud and scary looking IMO.
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 1 point on 2015-05-16 01:14:47
Which is why I say there's room for improvement. I've seen shearings that looked reasonably gentle, and ones that were as you described.
JonasCliverMightyenas lol 2 points on 2015-05-16 06:27:44
I'd be careful sourcing stuff from someone running a pet extermination station.
zoozooz 1 point on 2015-05-16 07:50:27
That's why I asked, Accurate or not?
What I find interesting is that people are very quick to accuse PETA, but very rarely discuss the stuff they say.
That's because PETA refers adoptable animals to the high-traffic open-admission shelters rather than taking them in ourselves, thereby giving them a better chance of being seen and re-homed. As for the "no-kill" shelters, their figures are great because they slam the door on the worst cases, referring them, in fact, to PETA.
HeartBeatOfTheBeastHoof and Claw 2 points on 2015-05-15 23:02:26
I agree with you that the law is mostly bunch of fluff, since as you mentioned hunting and farming for wool and meat is still legal.
Tundrovyy-VolkCanidae 2 points on 2015-05-16 03:30:18
As a fellow Australian, I have to ask that you stop looking a gift politician in the mouth. Sure, there are vast improvements that would be made in a world where anyone cared about animal rights, but this a brilliant step in the right direction. By saying "oh, it's not good enough", you're flying in the face of what could be the best advancement in animal rights that NZ has seen in recent years.
Of course, there will be hypocrisies, but there are already hypocrisies. Let's look to the positive side.
WyldStallions 2 points on 2015-05-16 04:21:41
I'm not arguing what you say but I am a very black and white person and thus have major issues with hypocrisy.
I am very much for legally declaring animals sentient (and sapient). I just feel that if your going to do that either by law everyone has to be vegan. Or since all animals (human and non human) are now equal beings that if nothing changed in terms of killing and eating them then is should become legal to do things like cannibalism and selling products made of human breast milk, etc.
Plus how would this affect known higher intelligence animals which do live in NZ like Dolphins. Just because we can't don't speak their language, should they be counted as citizens now? Given the ability to vote? That last one was tongue in cheek but on a realistic thought wouldn't declaring them sentient make sex between human and dolphins legal especially if they initiated which they are well known for doing.
coyotedriftZoo Friendly 3 points on 2015-05-16 06:03:04
I get what your saying, however, I feel this is going to be interpreted to better protect furbabies as such anti bestiality laws will have even worse sentences than they do now.
On top of that the meat industry might be hit with more regulation to make it appear more "safe" and "humane" how ever the bare bones of the industry (animals bred, raised, slaughtered, and eaten) will largely go unaffected do to some corporate loophole or another.
WyldStallions 1 point on 2015-05-16 12:33:11
Hi, I'm very familiar with furry but have not heard the term fur baby before, what's it mean?
I am actually serious and curious though about my dolphin comment. With animals now being legally sentient and thus assumedly that would mean they are cable of rational thought, feelings, having a mind of their own to want to do the things they want to do and not do the things they don't want to do. Then it seems to me if they can now have the right to decide if they don't want to be abused or killed. They can also legally consent to the things they want to do such as initiate and have sex.
I would think that with this new law that if one was legally charged for bestiality and one had videotaped the entire act that showed obvious initiation by the animal as well as enjoyment by it that a good lawyer could get them off and set a major precedence.
Just musing, while I do realise and understand logically how laws like this can and probably will be anti-zoo, I feel that if people were to challenge them (which requires bravery) that it could be turned 180 in favour of zoos.
On another note, I would think a law like this would shut down all zoos (as in the one with animals in cages on display) as well as all factory farms. It will be very interesting to watch it play out. I am not being snarky or obtuse when I honestly say that if NZ follows it's laws, then this one can only be followed by mandatory veganism of the country.
coyotedriftZoo Friendly 2 points on 2015-05-17 00:01:48
How about this alternative? instead of farming animals. Farm living muscle tissue for food products?
JonasCliverMightyenas lol 1 point on 2015-05-17 11:50:24
Needs moar infrastructure.
actuallynotazoophileok, I lied 2 points on 2015-05-17 00:12:33
fur baby is a term used by the normies who think their dogs are human babies. They use baby talk, shower them with praise etc. The dogs always turn out shitty mind you...
Rannoch2002Deer Zoo 2 points on 2015-05-18 04:42:18
Which is exactly what this bill is supposedly recognizing not to be the case... although that won't stop fundies from misusing it. It never has...
zootrashcandoggy doodle dandy 4 points on 2015-05-15 22:42:33
To a lot of people 'sentient' tends to translate to 'thinks like humans' which is a problem. You can see this in any conversation on dolphins and whales. Animals don't think like humans and don't have the same values as humans. While humans (in Western culture) find sex degrading, animals don't.
electricfoxx 2 points on 2015-05-16 02:05:30
Funny how they have a photo of a dog instead of a cow or chicken. That's so weird.
I am a vegetarian, but I do kill things, plants. I do realize that things die for others to live. However, factory farming can be cruel. I'm not against certain hunting or eating meat. I just choose not to. (If I was starving, I might.)
autotldr 2 points on 2015-05-16 23:10:32
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot)
The Animal Welfare Amendment Bill, which passed its final reading on Tuesday, states that animals, like humans, are "Sentient" beings.
"It's the same with the animals that we see that are neglected and have real, true animal welfare issues. They suffer for it. You can see it in their eyes. It's quite sad, really."
"Expectations on animal welfare have been rapidly changing, and practices that were once commonplace for pets and farm stock are no longer acceptable or tolerated. The bill brings legislation in line with our nation's changing attitude on the status of animals in society."
/r/zoophilia archive
To me, this is a symbolic gesture. When it translates into better and more reasonable animal welfare laws, then I'll celebrate. Until then, props for the lip service.
The article said it bans cosmetic testing, so I guess it is a small victory at least.
If you look closely many of the anti zoo texts read like it's always zoos who do something to animals. Maybe with recognitions as those people will realize that animals are not objects but subjects too who want stuff and do stuff. Sometimes even sex.
But this sounds worrisome:
Who guarantees that these people are objective and don't target zoophiles because they hate them?
This law has the potential to be either very good for zoos or very bad. At this point in time only God knows.
As an Australian and a vegan and zoo who thinks NZ is awesome in many ways I have to wonder how this law could be justified with hunting, killing for meat or animal by products. Surely the entire country is not going vegan but you also can't kill and eat sentient beings, no? Else canabalism would be legal, no? And NZ's bug export is their wool which of course is not going to stop, but if you have ever seen a sheep sheared that is anything but cruel. I'm not judging it, people can eat and wear what they want IMO but this law seems like a bunch of BS if you don't enforce it 100% across the board.
While I think that the shearing process can be improved, the thing about sheep is that you can't NOT shear them. We've bred some breeds so their coats grow indefinitely, meaning that without shearing they can be at risk of heat stroke.
True but as an Aussie, sheep are big here too so I have had lots of opportunities to see them sheared and personally I consider it pretty brutal. They want to get through the flock as fast as possible and are just flipping and whipping the poor sheep around, slamming them to the ground, holding them down while sheep are obviously frightened and the clippers are loud and scary looking IMO.
Which is why I say there's room for improvement. I've seen shearings that looked reasonably gentle, and ones that were as you described.
http://www.peta.org/features/if-you-were-a-sheep/
Accurate or not?
Totally, great find, thanks
I'd be careful sourcing stuff from someone running a pet extermination station.
That's why I asked, Accurate or not?
What I find interesting is that people are very quick to accuse PETA, but very rarely discuss the stuff they say.
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/peta-a-shelter-of-last-resort/254372/
True or False?
Or this: http://www.whypetaeuthanizes.com/why-an-animal-rights-organization-euthanizes-companion-animals.html
True or False?
[deleted]
I agree with you that the law is mostly bunch of fluff, since as you mentioned hunting and farming for wool and meat is still legal.
As a fellow Australian, I have to ask that you stop looking a gift politician in the mouth. Sure, there are vast improvements that would be made in a world where anyone cared about animal rights, but this a brilliant step in the right direction. By saying "oh, it's not good enough", you're flying in the face of what could be the best advancement in animal rights that NZ has seen in recent years.
Of course, there will be hypocrisies, but there are already hypocrisies. Let's look to the positive side.
I'm not arguing what you say but I am a very black and white person and thus have major issues with hypocrisy.
I am very much for legally declaring animals sentient (and sapient). I just feel that if your going to do that either by law everyone has to be vegan. Or since all animals (human and non human) are now equal beings that if nothing changed in terms of killing and eating them then is should become legal to do things like cannibalism and selling products made of human breast milk, etc.
Plus how would this affect known higher intelligence animals which do live in NZ like Dolphins. Just because we can't don't speak their language, should they be counted as citizens now? Given the ability to vote? That last one was tongue in cheek but on a realistic thought wouldn't declaring them sentient make sex between human and dolphins legal especially if they initiated which they are well known for doing.
I get what your saying, however, I feel this is going to be interpreted to better protect furbabies as such anti bestiality laws will have even worse sentences than they do now.
On top of that the meat industry might be hit with more regulation to make it appear more "safe" and "humane" how ever the bare bones of the industry (animals bred, raised, slaughtered, and eaten) will largely go unaffected do to some corporate loophole or another.
Hi, I'm very familiar with furry but have not heard the term fur baby before, what's it mean?
I am actually serious and curious though about my dolphin comment. With animals now being legally sentient and thus assumedly that would mean they are cable of rational thought, feelings, having a mind of their own to want to do the things they want to do and not do the things they don't want to do. Then it seems to me if they can now have the right to decide if they don't want to be abused or killed. They can also legally consent to the things they want to do such as initiate and have sex.
I would think that with this new law that if one was legally charged for bestiality and one had videotaped the entire act that showed obvious initiation by the animal as well as enjoyment by it that a good lawyer could get them off and set a major precedence.
Just musing, while I do realise and understand logically how laws like this can and probably will be anti-zoo, I feel that if people were to challenge them (which requires bravery) that it could be turned 180 in favour of zoos.
On another note, I would think a law like this would shut down all zoos (as in the one with animals in cages on display) as well as all factory farms. It will be very interesting to watch it play out. I am not being snarky or obtuse when I honestly say that if NZ follows it's laws, then this one can only be followed by mandatory veganism of the country.
How about this alternative? instead of farming animals. Farm living muscle tissue for food products?
http://nextbigfuture.com/2015/05/lab-grown-meat-thirty-thousand-times.html?m=1
Needs moar infrastructure.
fur baby is a term used by the normies who think their dogs are human babies. They use baby talk, shower them with praise etc. The dogs always turn out shitty mind you...
Which is exactly what this bill is supposedly recognizing not to be the case... although that won't stop fundies from misusing it. It never has...
To a lot of people 'sentient' tends to translate to 'thinks like humans' which is a problem. You can see this in any conversation on dolphins and whales. Animals don't think like humans and don't have the same values as humans. While humans (in Western culture) find sex degrading, animals don't.
Funny how they have a photo of a dog instead of a cow or chicken. That's so weird.
I am a vegetarian, but I do kill things, plants. I do realize that things die for others to live. However, factory farming can be cruel. I'm not against certain hunting or eating meat. I just choose not to. (If I was starving, I might.)
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 75%. (I'm a bot)
Extended Summary | FAQ | Theory | Feedback | Top five keywords: Animal^#1 Bill^#2 Welfare^#3 see^#4 New^#5
Post found in /r/worldnews, /r/theworldnews, /r/denser, /r/zoophilia and /r/cetacean_rights.