Boy, that insult takes me back.
I remember a time when certain people in the community tried using that one on me to exclude my thoughts, emotions and desires. That was almost 30 years ago and many of those same people, well, let's say the story never changed. I didn't make/share porn, you see.
Please don't let anyone claim authority to gatekeep you out of the community. In fact don't listen to any old fart, including me. Don't let them try to attack your position in the community. Sometimes, very occasionally, one of us old farts might say something to consider but use your own brains, make your own friends and set your own standards.
For a variety of reasons I had to wait almost 10 years before unvirgining myself. Because of the pressure to be heard as valid I made sub-optimal choices. In fact I was "making my bones" so to speak. In the long run it worked out super well and I was able to care for my first until she passed.
It does not need to be complicated. You really are valid. Even if you don't feel "romantic" love for animals, just sexual attraction. Even if you've decided you won't touch an animal because you can't be sure, but feel that love. You guys are valid and belong here.
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I wonder why this post was made? I've only seen the word get used by one person a few times. To be honest, it's a pretty weak insult that isn't that insulting anyways.
It would offend me very much though, but that's because of a personal reason.
I mean... It's not like you gain experience and knowledge as soon as you stick your dick in a vagina or the other way around. My opinions and behavior hasn't changed after experiencing something like sexual contact instead of just knowing about it, so that's some random BS.
Anyone who uses this insult is just making up an excuse to offend another person or just deny their arguments.
You can always report those people if you think it's report worthy.
And in the end everyone opinion's can count. Even those of anti-zoos, sometimes.
So yes, you're right.
While I did see an instance here, I had actually seen a couple of other places where the same issue has cropped up.
Well, who said that using "virgin" necessarily is an insult? It´s just a descriptive term for people without any sexual experience in the first place, nothing more. Nobody said that a virgin´s opinion doesn´t count, but when the inexperienced try to define things they effectively HAVE no BLOODY clue about because they´re virgins, something goes terribly wrong. Do you trust a skydiving instructor who never jumped out of a plane himself? Do you trust a novice surgeon who never has done the complicated surgery you happen to need?
And, yearningmice, why don´t you mention the difference actual experience makes? Aren´t you embarrassed by some of the things you said before your first time with an animal? Isn´t it a valid criticism when some people who only know zoophilia from a theoretical perspective are called out on their lack of experience? Especially when these inexperienced think their opinions have more credibility than those of experienced persons? Why is it the virgins are the loudest yellers of "unjust society"? And why is it the experienced folks see this law as some form of nuisance and not a threat?
It always takes two for an insult; the insulter and the insulted. If stating a correct fact is an insult to you and you´re insulted by being called what you are, it´s quite clear where the real problem lies.... Cohabitation with an animal surely won´t miraculously turn you into another person, but it certainly changes your perspective on many things. It IS an imprinting experience and shouldn´t be treated like it´s no more than taking a leak or taking a bath. I have no problems with inexperienced people in here, I only have a problem when these folks think they have the say in here. If you wanna go skydiving, whom do you trust more, an inexperienced instructor that never jumped out of a plane himself? Or are you naturally drawn towards the guy who jumps out of a plane every fucking day, for simple self preservation reasons? " My lack of experience is as good as your expertise gathered in decades"....no, it isn´t.
But you use it everywhere. In fact, you just recently used 'virgin' when talking about... Law, in a thread linking a survey for a criminology survey, of all things. I'm all for taking on both sides of an issue, but saying you don't use it as an insult isn't really defensible.
You can take it as you please, I don´t mind anymore. Follow the inexperienced, they surely know what they´re talking about...let them take over and see where it gets you....I´ll be watching from a distance. We Germans invented a word "Schadenfreude" and it perfectly applies to this sub and the entire community...I really should learn to enjoy all the fuckups and moronic attempts to "legalise"...I guess I´ll join my mare now and make some good love with her instead of uselessly agruing with a truckload of mentally unstable snowflakes that can´t even deal with reality when they´re confronted with one single fuckin´ word. Useless, that´s what this all is, the community, the sub, the efforts of "teaching" the public, the "zoo library"...
Another thing is, if someone disagrees with you, you proceed to criticize the community, and if I disagree with you, you threaten to leave(perhaps because of my moderator status? Else, I have to assume it's some kind of extortion to make me hold back because you can't use ad hominem attacks on me readily, nor can you provoke me and cause me to slip up). I don't care whether you stay or go, but it's a little suspect when 'I'm out' starts meaning 'see you in a week'.
Just see what you are doing:
And a little bit later:
Is it really nothing more for you?
The day you manage a one word post (or for that matter, point), I'll eat my boots. Sorry, but that's never what you do.
That's what you always do, silly.
It makes sense. If they don't have experience then they are a virgin. What other word is there to use that wouldn't be taken offensively? "Noob" "Newbie" "Greenie" "Kid" "Script kiddie" "Sh## blower" "Bullsh###er" "Sprout" "Shysack"...
Virgin is probably the least offensive.
Or just don't use it as an excuse to boost your own ego and to ignore arguments.
Inexperienced people works fine though. Virgin has many unnecessary implications.
Also what warcanine said.
I could find a reason to be offended by "inexperienced person" also. This is a case of what is termed "degeneration" in reference to the fact that somebody will be offended by anything until nothing is left.
Their inexperience will not change until they get experience, no matter how many different ways to claim inexperience are censored.
This is why dictators in "so and so" countries are toxic to their people. They are under the impression that they are "the best" that they can be. Any notion that claims they could be better gets punished. If they are "the best" then they can only go but one way, which is "backwards". Hence, degeneration.
Inexperienced is still more accurate, while virgin is a term that's mostly tangential, if that, to the topic of discussion in most cases.
That's all fine if it is relevant to the discussion.
A good example was that NSFW stallion BJ post just recently. Valid criticism based on experience is wonderful. There still wasn't any reason to call the person inexperienced although that was what it turned into if I remember.
Calling someone inexperienced, particularly talking about zoo experience, in a non-zoo context like politics, morals, etc? Pretty much almost always an Ad Hominem.
Look, one of the reasons I am here is because young zoos are still literally killing themselves for being different. I've caught a couple but those were the ones willing to reach out to me. I firmly believe that respecting those peoples desires, feelings, emotions is so important and that simply dismissing them as "virgin" and somehow unworthy is a huge diservice to the community. They may need to refine thier thoughts or maybe they are right and the rest of us have been sitting on our asses too long happy with what we have for ourselves. I don't know and don't presume to tell you the answer.
I just find it hugely self serving to use virgin as an insult and damaging to the community.
Are you intentionally misinterpreting stuff? Nobody wants to disrespect an inexperienced persons desires, feelings and emotions. I was a virgin for 16 years ,too...but what I cannot and will not accept is when inexperienced persons think they know better than experienced folks. If you have no problems with this "everybody´s equal, no matter what", I propose getting your next surgery from the hospital´s cleaner woman instead of an experienced surgeon. It would be "intolerant" to prefer the latter , right? Inexperience isn´t the problem. If you can´t fly an airplane, no problemo. But when you board a plane and hear your pilot say "Well, never been up in the air, but I read everything about it and that´s practically the same as an accumulated 10 k hours of intercontinental flight experience, wouldn´t you demand an experienced person in a position that includes the responsibility for more than just yourself? Out of simple self preservation instincts?
Another thing that bothers me: Can you imagine that I wasn´t referring to the sole sexual experience? I was referring to what follows this sexual experience...living a life under these circumstances. Those who have to lose the least are usually those scared shitless by some laws the most...how does anyone not having any experience know what these laws really are and how little influence they have when you actually LIVE this life instead of theoreticising from your comfy couch, in front of a screen? Seriously, what does an inexperienced person (again: I´m NOT referring to the sole sex act side) know about how living with a quadruped as a partner /as the only partner is like? Reading about it is NOT knowing and knowing is NOT understanding...best example of that is the enormous panic ("Ermergerd! It´s illegal now!!!") of those whose imagination is vast and experience is minimal. Another example: a fencehopper has sexual experience with animals, but he also is a virgin regarding a life with a steady quadruped partner. The only risk he takes is when he enters a pasture and his risk ends when he leaves again. Honestly, folks, before you open your mouths, LIVE this life for a few months and then, you can make some comments. That´s all I wanted to express, but you snowflakes always put the pedal to the metal whenever you feel insulted. What a weak generation that is insulted by words...
For everyone still pissed off by the simple term "virgin", I recommend readjusting your fucking neurons. If you connotate it as an insult, that´s YOUR fucking problem, not mine.
Actually, your response just argued both sides of the strawman you set up, as others have pointed out. I thought interpretive dance would be good as a response, but this isn't the medium for it, so I did some creative writing. In case you didn't get it, you are just another guy in the forum who posts with no right to say shit about anyone.
I mean, had you addressed anything I had actually said in my initial post, I might have taken you seriously, but as per your usual M.O. you created a strawman, argued about it, then told me I was wrong. Whatever.
It's not my problem that you continue to use a term incorrectly as a pejorative and ad hominem attack. Try to not pretend it is.
BTW, just to point out something of an inconsistency in your attitude... remember when you decided to not use a whip, spurs etc. when you started to ride? Remember when EVERYONE, you said, with experience told you it was the wrong way? Huh, imagine that, a virgin thinking he was better than everyone. Congradulations, it seems you mean it applies to everyone BUT you which is the root of your problem, honestly.
Yeah, let´s just hold language captive to create safe spaces for all the snowflakes....I begin to realise the right wingers aren´t completely wrong with attacking brainfucked PC/SWJ warriors.
And how I love when people make assumptions...when I was an ordinary hobby rider, I had a whip and spurs, but I never used them anyways. When I was arguing with my instructor about this issue, I already was at a decent skill level, ´cause that´s the only way to become a professional riding instructor in Germany. So, no virgin per se...
You´re basically as brainfucked as most other "zoos", you´re also applying advanced snowflakeism to anyone but yourself and this entire community is a mess, a hobby therapy session for nutjobs and dramaqueens unable to deal with even the slightest "insult" a.k.a. truth. Oh, by the way, Mr Moderator, where was your voice when I was called a nazi by another member? Or is this crap you´re pulling off here strictly reserved for your "friends" and likeminded? Is this a principle of yours or nothing more than groupthink?
Anyway: this is ridiculous and the right wingers are partially right about this whole PC culture. You´re all little cry babies getting insulted by words because you´re fuckin´ cry babies and infantiles who really need to grow up in your heads. "Boohoohoo, he said this and that...boohoohoo". Stop being such pussies, y´all.Stop this stealth fascism , stop the obvious treason of the core values of free speech.
I hate to say it, but this Shepp loonie got it right when he said that you´ll try to censor "insults" until the last few things you´re allowed to say are "Hello" and "bye" ...and even then, there surely will be some who feel "insulted". This is why the idea of tolerance is failing worldwide ATM and all these despots and dictatoresque guys are elected...you overdid it with this PC shite. And once again, my proverb is holding an essential truth "The oppressed of today will eventually become the oppressors of tomorrow."
More and more I´m aware that it´s not an attraction to right wing ideas that drives me into their direction, it´s the blatant and obvious idiocy of this PC culture of the left that does this job. Have a nice day in your safe spaces.
We've been over this. It's free speech for you and a small subset of others, but censorship for the 'pussies' as you put them. We're very lax about this stuff from a moderation standpoint, though, and you know it. There are dozens of moderate, reasonable people that could be here if not for the salt. This subreddit isn't very friendly for civil discussion, compared to the rest of reddit, and it's not because of threads like this. (cue another speech on the moral degeneration of this community and safe spaces)
But again, it all boils down to: How does being a virgin apply to your understanding of law and criminology? As noted here, and here it's significant enough to repeat it habitually even when sexual experience is a nonissue.
The person in question has recieved no less than 30 removals from me, that post included until he performed the necessary edits. We've already been over this though, you said that you were never phased by insults on a personal level,you were insistent about it, and that's why I left you to it. We've been over this before, if you'll recall. Some users need to be approached differently than others to get the best outcome from them. Would you like to put it on record that you need emotional support after being roasted, too? No? Didn't think so.
Look, if you started showing explicit signs of depression, then I'd be right by you trying to help you work through it, but you're not. It's just a fact of life that they need different kinds of treatment than you do if we want them to thrive.
lol
thanks for this, too.
You seem to be the only snowflake here. Enjoying your easy life so far?
You heard it here first, folks.
There is no difference between sex and a job that you studied for.
Because people like doctors don't spend years studying and practicing at all... Right? Right?!
You see, 30-30, sex does not require the same knowledge as someone who's flying a plane or healing humans.
There is not much experience in sex to have.
Your logic is really flawed.
Just because you fucked doesn't mean you're always more right than someone who did not.
Hey, wake up, every creature makes mistakes. Even the bestest of pros. And that shows, really. All these so called animal experts... Do you think that they approve of bestiality? No, they're against it.
But wait, they're animal experts. Something we are not, so I guess all our opinions don't count, then.
I think we both know that very well and you're just using this as an excuse to ignore other's arguments. Pretty low for someone like you and who I used to look up to.
I have sexual ''experience,'' except PiV sex. I also have a partner.
Why would me sticking my dick in her change anything?
Yet it hasn't made any difference for me. I still am scared shitless of people stealing my girl and locking me up. It has come so far that my everyday fear has increased with even more everyday fear.
You do not need experience in such a thing. Please don't tell me that I have to explain that to you...
And luckily for us, I'm not the only one. Because y'know, if I was the only one I'd be a super special snowflake, right? That woulda made you mad big time.
► snowflakes
► keeps saying that virgins' opinions don't count compared to non-virgins
► totally not trying to be special 'cuz he had a chance to fuck
👏👏👏
This is the saddest thing I've seen you do yet, really.
Mmmmh, I guess you can be delusional too, 30-30.
Not everyone's good at everything, and you make that obvious.
How would you feel if you were in such a situation? Would it not offend you?
Using a word to ignore your arguments and to devalue you.
Don't lie to yourself and say you would've accepted such a thing. What would you say, back when you were a virgin, when a non-virgin zoophile walked up to you and said raping animals is fine?
''Oh sorry mister, you've had sexual experience with animals so I can't really say anything because whatever you say makes more sense.''
I repeated things I already said, but since you straight up ignored those points in your recent posts I thought I might wanted to arg- oh shit, my dick didn't have the feeling of real sex yet! O MY GEESIZ, MY ARGUMENTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IGNORED BY YOU BECAUSE YOU DID! HAIL THE KING!
Oh, and here's a hint on thinkin' straight (I'm an official thinker who has experience in thinking so my opinion is better than yours.) Cut the drugs for a while and then you may come back to your senses, or hopefully don't die trying I guess?
Holy inexperienced person mother of god, Mary....after this BS, I´ll gonna need a break...maybe a vacation....hmmmm...where should I go? Maybe I´ll fly to the inexperienced person islands.....or I´ll take a trip to West inexperienced personia..... sigh
This reminded me, for some reason, that dismissing the opinions of 'virgins' or inexperience people is effectively the genetic fallacy at work.
Are you referring to the Virgin Islands, by chance?
He probably is. Funny thing is, his bout of satire should have called them the "handmaiden islands", since the theme of inexperienced vs. virgin was the idea that the former was more descriptive. (I doubt many people know this, but Columbus named the Virgin islands after the legend of Saint Ursula and her 11,000 handmaidens)
Why can't "inexperienced people" be proud of their virginity? They are some of the strongest people out there. It takes a lot of strength and willpower to move forward in life without ever having had sex. It gets even more difficult as a person ages, too.
I dunno about that part about strength. At least, not universally.
Never really cared about sex, academic and political interests aside. Age has only served to make me increasingly apathetic to the prospect. I want my bloodline to end with me too, for personal reasons, and so far its been smooth sailing. (tl;dr I'm a virgin out of preference and it's been really easy. I dunno, maybe I'm the exception.)
Anyhow, this isn't so much about whether virginity is a compounding icon of willpower or not(the former being a meritable stance on the matter), but rather that some people were casting a far too wide net with the word virgin and using it in such a way that it wasn't going to leave a virgin that much prouder. I'm of the philosophy that it's an issue of how, not what, when it comes to these kinds of issues; the same thing can be said twenty different ways and garner a different reaction each time. Unfortunately, some people said things in such a way that it made the community seem biased against virgins, despite that not being their intent, according to them.
Though, I did just see a sexbot hit the front page of reddit today. I wonder what virginity will end up meaning in the coming decades, what with the advancement of robotics and companion AI.
It could be my past heavy dosages of Respiridal talking, but it got easier for me to be a virgin with age. At this point, I hardly care anymore.
This is why I don't trust meds.
You needn't trust them, my advice is to use scientific method with them. Never more than one at a time and see what they do. Don't let a doctor drown you in them... not that I had much say in the matter.
They'd have to forcefully feed me any meds if they want to try and pull that shit.
It's prudent to take his advice. Even I take meds on a need to use basis, but I do so after finding five things: the WebMD page for it, the clinical studies on it, personal accounts, worst case, and best case. I was fucked over by meds too, mind. I was a (more) emotionless zombie for years because of it, but instead of fearing medicine, I took to being informed.
That's exactly the thing. Why would you point out they're a virgin in the first place? It doesn't mean their opinion is less.
Might as well take advice from beasties and fetishists because they've got so much sexual experience compared to anyone else here. Or even stop taking any anti-zoo's arguments seriously because they have no experience shagging beasts, too, right? Oh, and what about the so called animal experts who claim bestiality is a wrong act?
Funny enough, I actually did ask their advice a couple of times for certain things, just not for this reason, but rather because how this community acts.
Yeah I wonder why? Is it something you've made up or is it actually true? Because I haven't seen it myself.
Even if it's true, it doesn't mean anything. Having actual sex doesn't have to do anything with the unjust society, so that makes zero sense.
What kind of behavior is this anyways? It seems like you're saying that it's only the 'virgins' that mostly hold that opinion and for that reason it's nonsense.
If so, does this seem any familiar to you? ''It's mostly only zoophiles who think that bestiality is not wrong!''
But what I really wonder is... What if a zoophile who accepts what society does and thinks of us, gets caught, gets thrown in jail and their partner euthanized, which was 0% their fault because they would have never known.
Not saying I'd hope it happen, but I'd be surprised if their opinion stayed the same.
When I first fingered her, performed oral on eachother and rubbed our genitals together it didn't change anything for me, I didn't learn anything, I did not gain extra knowledge. So why would putting in my dick make any difference?
The only thing I really learned from that was that consent can depend on the animal's behavior, even though that could be easily known by anyone because every animal is different, so I didn't even have to do any of that to know that.
Look, I get it. You'd trust someone with more experience and has done the real thing.
But there's a few things I have to say to that:
I have to agree with 30-30. However there are two sides of experience. Somebody can have experience with doing things the right way, or they can have experience with doing things the wrong way. The "quality" of the experience makes some difference, because over time people can acquire bad habits. Nevertheless, having experience with mistakes still holds more value than no experience at all.
Calling somebody a virgin can be insulting I agree, but it can also explain how a person has no idea what they're doing or talking about because they've never actually done it or "tested" it before. That's like a two year old getting upset when an astronaut denies his claims on how to fly a space ship properly. Even a flight simulator can be considered training enough to warrant some experience.
Overall, virgins shouldn't be telling anybody how anything is done or how to "do it" unless whatever "it" may be is done to the virgin. Virgins can only have experience with themselves and say over themselves, if you catch the drift.
Because an astronaut and a non-virgin are perfectly comparable. 👌
Well, they've both been to deep spaces and now they're trying to get to Uranus. They're explorers.
Explorers typically find knowledge or things that other people couldn't or refused to find.
yeah...but if you accept non-sexual (in strict sense) experiences too - they tend to be..very complicated.
I'll accept them, however I can't accept "Experience in having no relevant experience" as being a valid strong point towards making claims about sexual morality and proper instruction.
As far as quality goes, some people reference their own personal mistakes as the means to make immorality claims against all sexual contact with animals. In fact, it was only wrong for themselves because it was their own mistake, not the mistake of others.
Let's say somebody had sex with a horse and got kicked... That person might have the sexual experience, however their experience is in light of a mistake they made. This creates the notion that "sex with horses is wrong" because they were unaware of the mistake they made to get kicked. They wrongly attribute the kick to "horses don't like sex."
Some people are willing to correct their own mistakes and do it better next time, rather than advertising their own mistake as a rule against the entirety of the action.
Here is another view from inside the airplane.
I got on in NY, the plane was pretty full and, of course, because of my status, I had to sit at the back with the others like me. The service is okay, some of my fellow back of the plane friends seem pretty cool. Being at the back, as you guys know, is a bumpy ride. Often the tail will swing up or down, side to side, as the pilot adjusts for headwinds but you just have to live with it because the plane is full and no one wants to trade seats with you. Sometimes it even upsets your stomach as the world drops out from under you.
Unfortunately, this one guy has been going around mumbling under his breath about planes falling out of the sky. I mean, sometimes he almost seems lucid talking about how the back of the plane is statistically the worst place to sit if you want to survive a crash but then he says something disconcerting like "I hope the devil doesn't pull the plane down."
Often I'm just not sure what my this fellow passenger is talking about as he seems to be living in his own little world and reacting to his own thoughts or projecting them on fellow passengers, the steward or pilot.
Just after take off from St.Louis, our 5th stop since we are on the longest milk run, the unthinkable happens. This guy jumps up, starts screaming about the devil and manages to get the door open. The plane, in an emergency manoeuvre, has to drop to 10k ft so we all have air to breath. This fuels the rage in his eyes as chunks of spittle fly off his lips. As the plane drops it is proof to him that the plane remains crashing as it has been since NY. He's screaming about lightening the load of passengers so the plane doesn't crash. He's already tossed a couple out the door without a parachute but now he's going around saying he's a parachute instructor and knows what he's doing. He's grabbing handbags and tossing more people out the door with them. He finds a big backpack and gives it to one of his friends before he pushes that one out the door too. He's the one picking and choosing who has to lighten the load, he claims using weight as his guide, but it seems random to the rest of us. A young teen gets shoved out the door to fall to his death before anyone is able to jump on him.
Meanwhile, this other passenger, he's new, got on the plane at St. Louis. He managed to get up front and talk to the pilot. He's in the back with us and is pointing out that the pilot, while maybe worried, seems competent still and in control and has said that he expects to be able to land the airplane in due course without any more problems. The pilot is a pretty experienced having flown lots of flights and has been with us since NY without a problem.
This doesn't settle the guy trying to throw people off the airplane. He's just screaming about how the new guy is a virgin to flying and hasn't been on this plane that's been crashing since NY. But remember, we've landed and taken off 5 times so far.
Life is like that. Sometimes experience and knowledge count, sometimes it's the new guy with access to knowledge or information you don't have who is going to solve the problem, sometimes you gotta look your elder in the eye and call them on their bullshit.
All I know is that I've enjoyed the flight for the most part. From the religious kooks in the airport lobby, meeting new friends on the flight to where we are now, getting to stretch my legs in 5 new cities even if it is at the airport and everything looks mostly the same. I'm going to judge the information I am getting by what I know of the outside world, the quality of the information source, and an analysis of the information as to what it means to context and I strongly recommend that everyone else do the same, as I said, exercise their own brain. I have absolutely received more strange and bad advice from people who have been around a while but are stuck in their own little worlds both as a newbie 30 years ago and to this day.
P.S. If you're thinking you're the pilot, the pilot is a metaphor for god, a higher power, the universal constant, or this joyride that we call life. We all have different knowledge and experience to bring.
tfw being called a virgin no longer affects you in a negative way
Holy shit. Your comment was posted 4 minutes ago and it's already getting downvoted.
Is anyone refreshing his account page every second to downvote him or what?
This is currently the top thread, so...
And how many people browse this sub again...?
Still, that's a bit fast and I feel the person just saw his comment and instantly downvoted because people have grown hate towards him.
Whatever. It's just a click of a button and a useless downvote but I thought it was just a little sad.
I try to reload the page every few minutes, myself. Could have just been lucky (or unlucky) timing. If it happened consistently, then I'd be concerned. His comment is kind of a shitpost, too.
EDIT: We're currently looking at 400 unique visitors today, with 1000 pageviews. We average twice that in a normal day.
I wouldn't be surprised. People tend to hate me more than they should. Such is life, I guess. But it's only a downvote, which means nothing to me.
Go ahead, downvote my comments to oblivion.
It's possible that it's the content, not the creator.
What's wrong with the content?
While I certainly didnt downvote your comment because it can definitely be true to you, but it may come off as verysmart or similar because it insinuates that all those who don't take insult to it are on higher planes of consciousness or existence or what have you.
Thinking too far into this. It was not meant as an insult toward people who are unhappy with their virginity. Personally, there are more important things to consider than getting laid, but that's just my opinion.
Edit: There was a time when it bothered me, but now it seems so trivial. Had sex with a guy, but it wasn't all that great. Still am a zoo virgin, though. What is seriously emotionally damaging, however, is what I've written in my other thread. It just depends on the person.
a word of caution regarding downvotes...
a friend and i have been looking at the same page at the same time and seen different numbers. we refresh the page at the same time .. still different numbers, and often different from what they were previously for each of us. i'm not sure the upvote/downvote system even functions properly....
Yeah, Reddit's voting system is the worst I've seen.
Refresh page, 4 points. Refresh page, 5 points. Refresh page, 3 points...
It can even make a difference between 1 and 5 points...
But I don't really care about that, it's just that I thought he was getting personally attacked.
I doubt Reddit just decided to say he had a downvote for no reason.
Actually, they fuzzy the vote numbers by intention. Reddit changed the way votes were displayed. It started what, 4 years ago? They found that there was too much vote farming or something.
It seemed a trivial matter to be so worried over.
However I am not surprised a shitpost was downvoted.
Is every post I make a shitpost now? Didn't realize that.
Lots of them are needlessly(relative to the rest of the community) negative.
Hmmmm, I wonder why? Could it be that I've missed a very important milestone because of the "needlessly" cold-hearted neglect and isolation from others?
I'm afraid that while that may be a true fact about your childhood, being against every form of intervention we present and being a downer(relative to the community again) isn't going to help your standing with anyone. Everyone here has baggage. Fact of the matter is, zoophiles don't get much good news and when people post nothing but their own bad news, it further skews a balance that the community understandibly wants to shift the other way.
You're not beyond overcoming your trauma, but you won't unless you fight it. And we can't help unless you let us in and stay reasonable with yourself and us. I won't give up on you if you don't give up on yourself, but I just don't see it right now.
I never had one. Try again.
That's exactly what I mean by trauma, and exactly the issue I'm talking about. The topic of getting out of your slump gets shot down or ignored now, and you default to relating things back to the troubles of your life. I'm patient, if you want help.
I don't get it. What kind of trauma causes someone to be depressed over never being around horses? That's actually traumatic in itself. It doesn't even need to have a cause.
You can become a zoo because of trauma. And that's exactly what depresses you, too.
So now you're invalidating my attraction to horses? You people are something else entirely. It really doesn't matter anyway. Believe what you want. I had no such trauma to warrant this.
What does that have to do with anything? Do I really have to explain this?
You can become a zoophile because of trauma.
You become depressed without horses because you are a zoophile.
How does that mean your attraction isn't real?
Tho, you had sex with another guy so I don't know?
But hey, if you don't agree with that then why don't you go to someone who can actually figure it out and has been teached in such things?
"Trauma" is too strong a word. It implies that zoophilia is solely caused by the environment and others around you, rather than something that you are born with.
If you mean by having enough negative experiences with people in your formative years, then yes. You do have a point.
A perfectly reasonable emotional response. This is comparable to a straight male having no contact with women whatsoever.
I don't know what is real anymore.
I was curious. It sucked. Can't form an emotional attraction to another human being, so it was a waste of time.
Who would that be? Psychologists and therapists are not trained to handle this kind of stuff. They'll more likely think of it as a mental illness rather than a legitimate sexual and/or romantic attraction.
Any form of trauma can cause it, though it can be innate as well. Paraphilias crop up quite frequently due to trauma, for whatever reason. It doesn't really matter all too much how you \r attraction truly came about, though. Not on a personal level, anyhow.
There are many understanding psychologists and therapists out there. Most are, in fact. A differing experience with them is poor luck at the end of the day.
I feel like they're out of chances with me. It's too late now. If they wanted to help me get better, they would've done so instead of being the incompetent assholes that they were.
There is no one 'they' to define psychologists and therapists, though. Each is unique, with their own nuances, limitations, and vices, and in that sense is each tailored to a specific clientele. You may not have found the one suited for you yet.
Instead of shopping around for a professional who actually cares, I'd have a much more productive time banging my head against a brick wall until I pass out from sustaining multiple injuries to my exposed brain.
Nobody enters into psychiatry without caring. The pay doesn't justify the job nor the emotional burden without an ancillary motivation.
There was actually a psychiatry times article written on the subject of patient suicide and its effect on clinicians. If you don't care to read the article, then "it's devastating" is a good summary. Psychiatrists end up taking on the stress, bereavement, and horrors of their patients despite the need to remain detatched. It erodes them, just as it would you or does I.
Stop trying to defend these bastards. They want to see me dead. They have no guilt or shame in mentally torturing someone like me. It's almost as if they derive pleasure from doing it.
Here's an excerpt from an article published in Psychology Today:
This isn't up for debate, it's a hellish occupation, and it seeps into their personal lives. As you can see in the excerpt, my position is supported by a gratuitous amount of statistics. It's selfless, and their only salve is when their patients show progress.
What on earth did the psychiatrists you visited do to provoke you, anyhow?
It doesn't matter anymore. This has become completely irrelevant. My emotional state would've been drastically improved by now, and I would have been able to move on with my life, had they provided equine therapy rather than more pills and needless heartache. A much better solution, in my opinion. All that time and money, wasted. It's a shame. If only these doctors knew how badly they fucked up.
Why not just do it yourself, then? A psychiatrist can only make a professional recommendation; you'd still have to organize the visit on your own either way.
Actually, this reminded me of a phenomena known as learned helplessness. In nonhuman animal models, it can be observed that they will cease to avoid undesirable stimuli if there is no escape presented, even when there is one presented later. It is a possible precursor for depression, which is quite observable in you. Take that as you will.
There are certain instances in which this is not possible. My personal situation is one such example.
Oh boy, I don't think I can take you seriously after mentioning that.
Assuming your congenital deformity and depression isn't the issue(The former not being significant enough to prohibit contact), what is it, then?
It's a real and significant phenomena, if that's what you're hinting at. This community is rife with it.
Sigh, this conversation is literally going nowhere. What more can I say?
An answer would be a good start.
Don't act like you care to know. Besides, it's far too late to change anything.
If I didn't care to know, I would have dropped it by now. I'm not a moderator for this community for the sole purpose of bringing down the hammer. I'm here working to help people, first and foremost.
I can't even have my own dog to keep me company. That's a knife to the heart right there. I have to deal with idiots every day of my life, which isn't easy and gets old very quickly. My doctors are no good when it comes to actually doing their jobs. They just don't listen.
So how can you be of help?
...or are you just saying that?
Worst case, I'll be someone you can talk to. All I can say for certain is that I'll work in the interest of giving you a hand psychologically. Whether I can help to improve your situation or not hinges on what you do with what I say.
What should I say then?
''Experiences that may have influenced your thoughts and actions?''
Anyways, I think it's a fine word. I'm not trying to imply it's only because of trauma. It's just a possibility.
Trauma can be caused by anything, even the littlest things.
There's also a chance that you might not remember it happened, and sometimes don't even know.
Ehm, okay.
There's enough humans out there who get depressed because they don't have a partner.
I know your case is different as you are not in contact with your attraction at all, but I think the same would happen to non-zoo and non-asexual humans.
This is just my opinion, but in that case I'd think it wouldn't be a real attraction because of the following reason: I would not have sex with any other creature as a canid, especially not out of curiosity.
I'm probably alone with this one, but I think if I had sex with any other creature as a canid I'd be disgusted greatly and would probably not touch my dick ever again.
That's how humans are with zoophilia. They're idiots in that part but that's why you should change up your story.
Maybe you could say that you're in love with human females, yet are too afraid to talk to them and get depressed by it.
Or you could say you like horses very much and you'd actually meet one and tell your reasons why you can't.
These are just examples, though. You could probably think of other stories and such.
I've always wanted to be with a horse since I can remember, especially a mare. Never have I felt that way toward a guy. I don't think only with my dick, however. I don't base my ideal partner on whether or not I can get hard around them, and I'd never expect a mare to have sex with me either. This is about as real of an attraction as it gets.
Warcanine has a point. Paraphilias can be developed due to a diverse array of causes, and trauma is one of them (Note: Trauma isn't necessarily comprised of 'severe' experiences. Trauma can also be comprised of long standing cricumstances, but they need not be outstanding for you). The attraction is still quite real, though.
However, I don't think that your depression is linked solely to your attraction. Your circumstances leave you predisposed to depression before even considering zoophilia.
I think he meant shitpost as in a meme/joke post?
This one was, not sure how you got to "every" post. That was your own minds doing, not me.
The post was literally a combo "tfw" and "consciousness expantion" pic shitpost meme. It did not add an amusing twist to the conversation, it was not thoughtful, it was not aiding or adding to the conversation; all it was designed to do was get you attention, for which you say you are starved.
I'm in that boat myself, basically because I tried denying myself for a long time, and then had to completely change to become capable of supporting another living creature. But I think I prefer this to the guilt or shame I might feel if I'd acted on my desires as a teenager, for example. I'm a better person for waiting, and will be a better partner for it in the long run.
I agree, a person's opinion is not less valid just because he/she is a virgin.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
There, figured it out, ;)
Anybody else noticed that the healer of arms actually "healed" your emoticon´s left arm? ;)
Gee, I wonder if it was intentional!
you have become obsolete!
A bit 'thrown away' (type away) type of comment (not read all comments before posting), but it occured to me - whole 'you must have sex life' tend to be enforced....I tend to dislike this ... Like, isn't it basically same mistake as I did as child? We had male cat, and I assumed (of course wrongly!) female cat from another flat must like to be put near him ..as with any attempt at making love work by (external!) force - it only resulted in catfight, of some sort. It was before I was 14 ....
{EDIT: ok, finished reading new comments since my last visit}
EDIT2: I better to formulate myself a bit more fully ... I mean, I'm currently under impression whole overvaluation of sex(only) part of life comes from..isn't it come from very same mainstream 'culture', with impossible but enforced anyway sex supression? So, 'i-have-sex-life-!' tries to be both protest and something safe from reaction at protest at the same time ..? Also, whole human herd mentality tend to enforces this ..like...when 90% of your group, group you read for example (be it on Linux, or ....zoophilia) says they did it, your (non-zoo) friends also tend to all talk about (human) sexual life ...it pushes one towards it ... but this is not necessary result of thinking/choice... a lot of our acting at least initiated by example, by attempt at aligning themselves with other folks? and as such ...may be making few more circles around this specific part of life before diving into it actually..useful...? Yes, we all tend to defend our ways of living life, so as , hm, virgin, I tend to defend this ...but..be aware about local mainstreams, too.}
That is quite an interesting view and I'd like to give a shout out to the "asexuals" who may be reading. :)
I do agree, although looking at me talking to the community it would seem completely untrue, that sex is a minor part of life.
That is one reason why on some other posts I've tried to get people to talk about the other important things in their life. /u/amorebestia has been trying hard to get us all to talk about things like sports, music and other topics as well.
Anyhow, I think you have a great observation here and I'd love to see you elaborate on it even more.
Mmm, elaborate on local mainstream aspect? We, humans, like many social beings (as far as I understand) tend to copypaste behavior (and ideas, sentences..) from our surroundings..So, some views become quite very popular, for example if you spend too much time with your computer someone will nearly invariably tell you 'go real, get wife', or something to this effect. May be relation between various pleasures quite entangled really - if they all 'routed' via some region of brain...[1] We might have similar sensations from love, discovery, solving something, shraing results of our life, and ourselves (via language and not only)... But guess often this 'get wife' from male-nerd community of hackers (real and not so...and here term 'hackers' used in different meaning, more like 'computer specialists') just ..some kind of thrown-away reaction... Well, obviously live beings (even simpler ones, like rats and their simpler society of relatively short-lived individuals) much more complex than even most complex computer networks - they have this self-awareness thing (a bit hard to prove, but I settled with evolutionary explanation), and computers so far lack this.
So, from time to time I look around for something..about human interconnection, but outside of most overpresented today ideas..because 'in theory' of course close intimacy between two beings (or more, just two is minimal number) may enable them to become bigger than each of them individually, with attention focused on 'figuring out' what other being actually may want, or why s/he does this, or not does that, or in what kind of mood s/he, and what kind of relations s/he have with others...and this work two-way, at least for beings evolved for group life. Because humans don't have easy (or not easy) way to know someone's else feelings and thoughts - we come to guesswork and language, as some approximation of more direct connection. But again, while telepathy-like group-minds were imagined by some humans - may be telepathy will have much less impact on actual society ..because..one can't listen 100% of time to many more streams of feelings around him/her, so some filtering will be developed, and with this filtering being voluntary to some degree ...telepathy will be not fundamentally different than language...we can say whatever, but will other listen? It depend ... Of course, having additional way to express yourself OR get someone's view/feeling 'on board' (inside you) feels like too big possibility to thrown away, so my interest in interspecies language(s), as system of transferring not only knowledge, but ..'inner world(view)s'. Way of more fine-grained expression, and seeing more from other.
Well, physical intimacy also can give out more than surface physical contact...in theory, and I guess in practice. We not ordinary put any part of us into (literally) someone's else body, and so we have quite vague idea about our..inside, and more importantly one's inside. So, in this sense sex is relative novelity..but again, I was (positively) surprized by how (captive, but libre dolphins also do this ..to some extent..) dolphins 'handled' my hand with their mounths ...well, it turned out dogs also can be very..careful while ...mouthhandling your hands. I like idea of love as attention-focuser, something outside 'herder; or 'hunter' (quite negative, from 'target' viewpoint!) mentality (per Konrad Lorenz's view on observers). It worked for me, and i hope it will work for others ...
and back to 'local mainstreams' - it was phrase from another article/blogpost I found recently... I was looking at tantra (is it like ..heavy petting for humans?), and found this, because I especially was looking for ..something out of band:
https://the-numinous.com/gay-tantra-taboo/ - so, I picked up this part of it for my posting title ..""When one embarks upon a tantra course they lay themselves open and become ultra vulnerable, any teacher who is insensitive or who makes you feel invisible can emboss serious damage within you." - but it says about mainstream(s) too.
[1] http://www.omnimagazine.com/archives/interviews/lilly/1.html - here I think.....
I can appreciate the line of thinking
But it works both ways and sometimes it runs itself out: Communities that worked that way didn't look worth investing in to me, and on others I just couldn't take seriously people who thought that way. Apparently others thought the same; some places dwindled and died for being too exclusive and esoteric.
The problem is more that the community is too small. So there are so few options if you feel like interacting, that there just isn't something for everyone, and at most you get 2 or 3 bridges to burn. What's worse is every island's government is batshit (maybe from the isolation mentality)... so eventually you just build a raft and take your chances on the open sea.