Given that the number of zoo social gathering places online has dropped significantly over the years, I am concerned. This place is the last bastion as far as I know, for zoos online. I definitely don't count beastforum to be any place a zoo would want to be for meaningful community.
We need to have a designated spot we can all go to, just in case the Reddit owners decide to full scale ban us. Think of the fact that many people are coming here and their lives depend on us being a support system, people who are contemplating suicide and can't talk to their therapists. People who are completely new to this, and probably don't know that BF is absolute shit, and will be in for a rude awakening when trying to look for community and legit information about zoophiles.
Are there any other places online we could all go if this place and any other zoo places cease to exist on Reddit? I mean, considering we are garnering more attention. Eventually if enough people complain to the press and spread the word of our existence, reddit won't care about us if we are bringing them too much negative attention, they will shut us down to save face. That's how every single place online who touts being a place for freedom of expression ends up. As soon as they get too much negative attention they run with their tails tucked between their legs and say "We are a place of free speech and anyone can communicate any ideas they want, except for that group of people, and that one over there too, please don't leave us and bring our stock values down!"
If someone wants to make a new site I want to help. I know C++, so learning php or js should be easy, I also know basics of html. Even if you don't want to give me moderator status I can write some functions and send them to you.
I wish so bad, that I could code. I'd make a magnificent site that would blow BF out of the water. We'd have our own profiles, signatures, etc. The site would be nice and sleek in design. We'd have the ability to block people so we'd never see them on the site again. We'd have a private chat and the choice to put identifying markers on one's profile such as gender, age, etc. I just don't know how to code :<
Hehe, sorry, no. Remember that we want to be anonymous. This means no ip blocking, not to mention that full list of proxy servers is not something you can create. We can make an email verification, but it wouldn't be a ban forever. Really, this system is very tricky and hard to do well.
I meant users can block other users.
Oh, ok, I see. So looks like you have just described this place. Except none of us own it. And if you want to code, then go ahead! Find some tutorial and get started! It's really good hobby. And useful sometimes.
Wishes won't make it happen; if you want to learn, start today.
Pick a language, it doesn't even really matter what language, but I'd recommend something that's easy to get tools for. It shouldn't cost you a dime, tons of totaly free languages and mountains of tutorials to get you started. Once you get the basics, head on over to github, bitbucket or the like and find something interesting to start poking on.
Moreover, just start writing down the wishlist of what you want, so that other people who do know how to code can do it.
I know php,html,js and css quite well. If anyone needs some help, then just let me know.
The real deal is that we need a database model, a secure tokenized rest API, we'll need DDOS protection (eg. cloudflare), a VPN, SSL certificates, it's a shiton of security mechanisms, and a self-destruct mechanism that trusted members can activate. Add that to search optimization and internal search and there you got a shiton of work of quite an scale. And yet so I can think of security issues, "smart issues" but you'll need real hackers to find those, eg. robot spamming.
Mapping that to a visual interface should be the easiest part, and honestly regardless that I know those, this job is just of such magnitude. I simply wouldn't just put some php, html, js and css together; as I could hack and trace each person in no time, or completely destroy the server. I honestly doubt any of us is able to do this in a reasonable amount of time. Unless there's a framework that we can reuse, from scratch it'll be such a job.
how exactly would you trace a person or destroy the server?
Reddit has it all sorted, and this is something that people take for granted but can't imagine the complexities.
And this where the money can really matter. Anyone can grab a copy of phpBB and a $20/month virtual server and be a site owner. The first thing they will discover is that fighting off spambots is a full time job. Then some SJW with a botnet will burn through the month's bandwidth allotment in 6 hours.
If you want real security, unplug the shiny box. Otherwise, pay for the best and pray.
There are different mechanism and securities that are very efficient for catching these, I have the know how, and that's why I say this is a huge job. Add that considering that I don't think you can use security mechanisms, such as cloudflare, without giving your ID. Worst off if they decide they can pick on IP addresses.
We are doomed :(
Hiding your ID isn't that hard. You incorporate somewhere unfriendly to the location of the host. Or you can build your own facility with a mechanical "L-pill". Either will be expensive.
Personally, I wouldn't mind having my ID tied to a free speech issue. My sex life is effectively over so getting evidence that I do more than talk about it (perfectly legal) will be tough. I suspect that I am not the only one.
That depends on where you are, you can still be charged for other reasons, none knows, there are phone carries with excellent 4G signals that don't need any registration, possible a tunnel can be launched and even if they trace it they won't be able to do a traceback.
But indeed, it's a problem of money, not of technology or solutions.
I know for certain that I can't be charged where I live as long as I don't host specific kinds of porn. I have already been linked to some pretty large sites and passed security at the same time. I know of others who have done the same. All it takes is balls. "I support free speech!!!"
What I don't have is any money.
I understand what you mean.
However we have to think freedom of speech is an illusion, as a long as we live in a democracy, and not in an anarchist state, there will always be opressed groups.
This is where being old is an advantage. The first thing you must understand is that freedom American style requires constant input. It isn't something you have or are born with, it's something you win. The tools are provided but you must wield them yourself.
Fighting for our sex rights would be a very hard battle. Fighting for privacy and freedom of speech would be a near certainty. I'm old enough that no government would want to have to take care of me or face much public shame over something so non-criminal as a free speech issue.
Yeah well, however I am not American, so I'm not sure how that freedom is different from any other properly democratic country.
I just think that the point is being able to talk between ourselfves, I think our sexuals freedoms won't come anytime soon and we actually need to fight for freedom of expression first.
Yep, I qualify as being in the same boat.
PHP is garbage. And believe me it's not easy to make a website, specially with the functionality we need. I takes years since the first time you touch JS code to properly know how to do fullstack. :) so start up, it's a very useful skill!!!
...ok, I'm starting now. Fortunately my friend is into it, so I can ask for some explanations.
:) Good
By the way jquery has also been outdated, there's an excellent book called eloquent javascript (for ES5) which you can use to learn standard old javascript, it's online, pdf, then you can learn ES6 and ES7 (the new javascript), nodejs, and then you can jump to use the fancy new libraries for developent that do crazy shit, like jsx, or whatever you prefer, you'll see you'll have a shiton of options, I went for react, some people go for angular, vue, etc.. etc...
[removed]
I don't think you need deep coding efforts to set a forum at this point. You can just grab existing forum software and customize it to your liking.
If someone is interested, I'm an engineer, we could export all what we have in reddit to a reddit-like place we own; however it's not an easy job, and would take a shiton of time and work unless there's a framework out there we can setup, also I'd not like to have the servers under my name either so somebody else must own the servers.
What we can do in no time is have a backup of these, including the users so that each one of them can be messaged in that case and defer the development to if it's necessary.
Well who says we even need to export the material? We could alternatively just create a new site, it will be much less of a hassle.
The only problem with this is the same problem that comes up time and time again; no one wants to host a site, for obvious and legitimate reasons.
For now I think reddit is fine, the only problem is that it lacks the complexity and organization that a forum or private site has. As long as Cabron's zoophilia pictures and Silverwolf's zoo writers guild are running, there is another place to go if the forum goes under the bus.
In my opinion, there is no need for us to take action on this problem right now, although concern is appropriate. It might be beneficial if ZP and zoowg are linked to the subreddit's description the same way knotty was before it went down. This way if something does ever happen, then hopefully the large number of zoos who rely on the subreddit for information may know to go to ZP and zoowg. Im sure not all real zoos who check out reddit bother reading long comment threads like these. The only way that the existence of other zoo communities gets around is by word of mouth. We need to make an effort as the largest true english zoo community to propagate important information that may otherwise be hard to obtain for our many subscribers.
I'm not sure, the only reason I joined this community was accessibility and security, unless they prove it to me, I wouldn't join any other community; in fact I think that if this reddit thread died, I'd probably just assume it gone.
For many people it is similar, there's just something compelling about finding a subcommunity in a community you use.
Sure I get that, but then you need to ask yourself how important is it really that you are getting to talk with other zoos? Like come on, if your not willing to go out of the way to login to some out-of-the-way forum or site then you should ask yourself how much you really care about conversing with other zoos.
Im not trying to sound mean or anything, im just saying its a minimal inconvenience that can easily be overlooked.
It's not about that, it's about the security; there is a huge difference between a reddit account and a random website account. This account is already listed in a goverment website cache for some reason, make it be a random unsecure website, you tell me. Even when I'm pretty open with my own friends, I don't want people that I don't care about tracking me.
[deleted]
I just have to say; I love that the image most people imagine when it comes to zoophiles are dumb, uneducated, hillbillies with no social skills.
Yet nearly every comment thus far are people with advanced technical skills, with nigh perfect grammar, offering insightful opinions on how a complex website should be constructed.
It makes me smile, thank you.
...all acting like setting up a medium-scale forum on a website is some kind of intensive technical marathon >.> What we're missing to have our own website (like we used to) is someone willing to pay for web hosting and put in the effort to maintain it, not someone with outstanding technical abilities.
[deleted]
[deleted]
It is not just about paying the hosting, it is about being considered responsible for the site. Pornography is against the ToS of many providers, and I suspect many of those providers would extend the ban over zoophile content incorrectly using that clause. In addition, the name of the administrator is linked to the site.
If I thought there was interest in a forum hosted in the darknet I would set one, but I know there is no interest, so...
Maybe a non porn board on a chan site like 8chan?
Anything adjacent to beast porn is basically a non-starter imo.
Aren't we adjacent to beast porn here on reddit? There are a few subreddits following that theme.
Worst case, /r/zoophilia gets hit with a quarantine.
Even after the evidence you've given me, I still don't trust the admins.
No fucking way. Everyone changes their minds or misses certain things.
Not to mention that was one admin that helped. Another admin could be against it.
A pedo sub was shut down and they were against child rape and child porn, even.
Yeah, things like /r/Bestiality haven't been banned but they might have seconds thoughts about that.
It got quarantined and people proceeded to forget about /r/bestiality. It's the media equivalent of a ban.
Antis are special, you know that. The admins will strike some day.
And forgot? I see things like /r/picsofcaninedicks and /r/sexwithdogs sometimes.
Well of course it still shows up sometimes. It's just that there's alot less stumbling upon it.
It already has, a while ago.
Our CSS would have gotten nuked if it was.
there are two forums elsewhere - zoowg.net and zoophilia.pictures/forum
zoowg is my hangout at the moment. I don't see an issue with hosting zoo sites honestly. I see an issue with motivation to do so. With bitcoin and the like, there are plenty of means.
just like voat. it was fun for the 3 or so months its free speech lasted
Look into https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/
I'm surprised no one remembers voat. We even already have a zoophilia board over there.
voat quickly became a dumping ground for various unwanted communities. as a result its userbase is kinda shitty
That, and with the banning of a few subverses, its main goal of being reddit with free speech kinda died a bit.
[removed]
U guys r sick
You can have your opinion, but constructive criticism is more welcome than throwing adjectives.
Can people who f*ck dogs and chickens rly be reasoned with?
Yes, I honestly ask you to explain your statement. https://www.reddit.com/r/zoophilia/comments/6r8dvv/a_post_here_recently_was_features_in_rdrama_just/dl6lgtz/
EDIT: Wait, do you want to say that we need to prove our actions are good? Then no. If you grab a rock and put it 10cm to the east without any other effect on reality, then your action was good or bad? I think it was neutral. So this is our starting point. If your statement say that some action is not neutral, doesn't matter good or bad, then you need to prove it. I don't want to say that bestiality is something good, I want to say you are wrong when claiming "You are bad because you willingly fuck animals".
[removed]
In more than two decades being amember of the online zoo community, I never met anyone who was a "chicken zoo". Maybe you should just stop hanging around on dubious websites?
And regarding your question: I guess it depends on your willingness to lead a rational discussion, even with people you´re not at all able to understand.Seriously, it depends more on you than it depends on us. Nobody expects you to turn into a zoo supporter, we´re not infectious and besides a few loonies, can articulate our views and philosophies in an orderly manner. So the only one keeping you from reasoning with us is yourself and your prejudices.
No one in here is fucking chickens.
But dog fucking is acceptable though?
With a long list of stipulations including but not limited to do no harm and only with their approval, yes. Allowing a dog to mount a human is also acceptable with said stipulations in mind. The reason why attempting to couple with an avian is problematic is because their reproductive systems are significantly different and not suitable for that kind of contact. (we also have no evidence that it would be enjoyable for them in this case if it were possible.)
Every please has had exactly this discussion, and it winds up in the same place. One person creating a site has obvious security problems (for them as well as everyone using the site). Creating archives is helpful for posterity but bad for people's privacy.
Like anything, diversification is a good strategy. This is not the only site around discussing the subject matter.
I think the best way to address the "one person creating a site has obvious problems" is both acceptance of the fact that that will ALWAYS be a problem (in any modern linux setup, somebodies gotta know the root login) and to have a trustworthy individual in that role.
Beyond that, a good instant crypto-erase algorithm on the host is a neccesity. It's all pretty easy beyond finding that one person if you know what you are doing.
I'd volunteer, but since you didn't respond to my last PM, I'm guessing I don't qualify... and that's cool. Finding a trustable person is hard and I don't take offence.
If root access was a concern, we'd not be sitting here on reddit.
As you say, the main concern is trustworthiness, technical acumen, and having social aptitude, and most people who conveniently volunteer to make themselves personally accountable for a large amount of borderline-illegal content hosted on their own server somewhere seem to fail at least one of those tests.
I wouldn't even consider hosting it on my "own server" somewhere. We'd have to use one of the commercial hosts payable in anonymous bitcoin on a crypto locked drive with very strict management over the keys.
I have the technical acumen. Trustiworthiness and such is up to you. I don't see this as any kind of moral issue though, I actually see it more as a moral imperative I get off my ass and do something at some point soon. Whether or not it's with others remains to be seen, but I'm unable to just sit down and do nothing anymore.
BF is pretty meaningful. The guides over there are more helpful than anything that you can find here in reddit. Their moderation is also stronger. In here people is free to spread harmful rumors and lies and be assholes.
If this place closes, people will always find another place to go. New places will be created. You worry to much.